Cyberdemon Fights

[Krazov]

Magnusblitz said:

Don't remember which map it was, but there was one that had four Cyberdemons in cages they couldn't leave with doors, and the strategy was just to open door, blast with the SSG, then dodge back around the corner. Repeat about 25-30 times per Cyberdemon. Soooo boring.

You mean “Cyberden?”

[Krivanka]

It all depends really. Like in Alien Vendetta Map The Demonic Hordes I like all the cyber placements and there are about a dozen. But in some maps they can be more terrifying even in reduced number, like in Alien Vendetta Map Beast Island

Like most seem to be saying, it is pretty much how they're placed and used within' the map.

The fact that they can instagib you is always terrifying to me

[printz]

How do you kill Cyberdemons with the BFG in two shots? Don't tell me you're just using ZDoom for this. I was trying it quite extensively with god-mode or invulnerability in vanilla Doom, and I'd always have to do three or most often four melee BFG attacks to kill a cyberdemon.

I enjoy Cyberdemons. They look great and are very effective, unlike their cousins the self-proclaimed Masterminds. But I hate when I have to use the SSG against one. It takes too long and I don't like missing bullets. I'd much rather use rockets or plasma. It involves no less risk.

Best moment is when a stray rocket flies straight at you, killing you in one shot and denying all progress you've made in that level. Complete with a real scare from the player.

[Maes]

printz said:

How do you kill Cyberdemons with the BFG in two shots? Don't tell me you're just using ZDoom for this.

I've seen it done regularly on ToD's PPPP.WAD built-in demo, which is for prBoom+, so at most it's a Boom thing.

As to how you do it...you essentially have to run up a cybie's ass, stick the BFG up there, and make sure that the big ball and most tracers connect. You have to be both up close, firing at the right moment and facing in the right direction.

Then again, in vanilla Doom it's hard to get consistent Spider Mastermind kills in one BFG shot as theory would dictate, even with it being a much larger target, so it can only be harder against a Cyberdemon, which is both a slimmer target and has more HP.

[TimeOfDeath]

Vanilla/boom feel the same to me, but you can get screwed by the blockmap sometimes.

Press fire between the cyber's first and second rocket, then run right up to the cyber so he fills your screen after his third rocket just in time for the bfg ball to come out of your gun. Once you get the hang of it, cyber fights and doom will be changed forever!

[dobu gabu maru]

I kinda wish there was a second type of cyber that was exactly the same, except that it had 50% less health. When they're used well they can be super intimidating, but there are a lot of fights I've experienced where the threat has passed and you're left mopping up this big super baron. Granted, the test of endurance is part of the appeal, but I think they could be used with a lot more variety if they weren't such ungodly bullet sponges. That, and balancing cell ammo & fights around the fact that some people can pull off the 2-shotter and some people can't can be aggravating.

[scifista42]

dobu gabu maru said:

I kinda wish there was a second type of cyber that was exactly the same, except that it had 50% less health.

That's easy to do in DEHACKED if you use Spider Mastermind as base for this replacement monster. Both Cyberdemon and SSM are hardcoded to be proof against blast damage (but no other monsters can have this quality). With a little DEHACKED work and recolored Cyberdemon sprites, you'd easily get what you wanted, if you didn't mind sacrificing the Mastermind.

They would, however, infight with standard Cybies. Maybe not if you changed impact damage of a Rocket to 0 and only left splash damage - which would, of course, modify damage of player's rockets as well.

[Da Werecat]

0 damage still makes the attacked monster enter its pain state (even though its health is not reduced), so I don't think it will help.

[scifista42]

You're right, it doesn't help (I've just tried it), but not because of pain chance - the code for switching target is not related to the monster's pain state at all. I've set pain chance 0 to my new cyberdemons, and rocket damage 0, and they were still prone to infighting each other type.

[Maes]

Something to try: give infighting monsters negative damage, and watch them as they superheal themselves and cause Sky-May-Be effects on the engine.

[Marcaek]

Spider masterminds are technically too effective on their own, which is the problem with them. The super chaingun attack is devastating in medium-short range combat if there's no cover around, but once there is cover they're ENTIRELY useless on their own. So you have a monster which is either completely overpowered or entirely useless in most situations it appears in. The fat hitbox means it can't fit in combat areas even the Cyberdemon would be effective in, so it finds limited use. They make good longer range snipers shooting into an area populated by other lower tier monsters and cover, but it's very hard to make engaging one mano-e-spiderbitch a fun encounter. You can't even pair them up with other masterminds unlike the Cyber because they'll just infight themselves to death.

I'm kinda of the opinion that being hard to use doesn't necessarily make a monster bad, beause rare but well designed encounters with something like a spider or baron mix things up better than just peppering them around because they exist and you feel like adding one.

[scifista42]

^I agree. SMMs can serve well to physically block the player from his goal (a key, a switch, an exit door) while he's being trapped and attacked by monsters from various directions, plus the punishing attack of the SMM herself. Or she can be used as standard area-denial monster in moderately large areas (think Resurgence MAP09), of course in combination with other monsters that keep the player busy. The SMM setup in Going Down MAP03 also wasn't that bad at all - at first she threatened the player running around, then got telefragged, all done quick.