Breach [1.0, now on idgames!]

[Viggles]

Just gonna leave this here: my wife knitted me an actual goddamn Cacoward for xmas.

[TheOrganGrinder]

Well-earned, and your wife is an awesome lady. :)

[joe-ilya]

Viggles said:

1 How is ammo balance? How do the difficulty levels feel?
2 Are any areas too dark? Not dark enough?
3 Are any areas too cramped for the encounters in them?
4 Are the surreal hell sequences 'readable'? Do they feel like they relate to the real-world parts?
5 Doomsday can take minutes to load the level, which smells like its GLnode-builder is choking on something. Is this common with complex geometry? How would I go about fixing that?
6 I disabled jumping in ZDoom to prevent a couple of sequence-breaks; is that a dealbreaker for many players?
7 Are demo lumps still a thing? If so, how do you deal with incompatibilities between ports/versions?
8 How important is it these days to have custom music and a custom TITLEPIC? (The wad has neither yet.)

1 Both are good.
2 and 3 No
4 They are great although one part contains big HOMS underneath, yes.
5 It's not your fault
6 They can enable it anyways, by making jumping always allowed or by removing the 'nojump' script and you can always jump in PRboom anyways.
7 Yes, there aren't any.
8 It's unimportant, but it gives your wad an image.

[dew]

Oh man, that caco is so great. Well deserved too! Now make us that sequel. :)

[Viggles]

OK, I've updated Breach to beta4, the Cacoward edition. Hopefully this is the last version before the second part is done x)

I'd intended to leave it be, but now that the level's getting more attention I wanted to fix some bugs and pain-points with the earlier version. I've also swapped a couple of secrets around, and reworked some encounters for UV to make them harder to cheese.

If you've played through the previous version very recently, it's probably not worth a replay; the differences aren't dramatic. But I would be grateful for updated feedback, to know if the changes in this version are indeed improvements.

If you've previously linked directly to http://washboardabs.net/doom/breach/breach-beta3.zip, please change this to http://washboardabs.net/doom/breach/breach-latest.zip. The download link won't change again after this. (And links to this thread should continue working as they are.)

[Not Jabba]

The knitted Cacoward is awesome.

[Suitepee]

Not Jabba said:

The knitted Cacoward is awesome.

I second this.

[VGA]

Haha, put some impassable linedefs around that lady cause she's a keeper! :D

[Touchdown]

Just finished it and I absolutely love it. Great detail, enjoyable gameplay and awesome Hell stuff. Will play it again sometime. Hope you can finish the second part in a not too terribly distant future.

[Chief Integrator]

Registered just to add to the praise. This map is straight up pornography, very provocative indeed.

- Love the tracing of the hex floors (4_8 and 5_3)
- Love the detail in the lighting. Knowing that each beam and gradient have to be hand drawn makes it so much more impressive than a present day engine with actual lights.
- Love the CEIL1_2 lighting details (in the slime) in particular.

Most of all, I love the fact that it's all stock textures, and yet I'm constantly thinking "how has nobody thought to do that in 22 years?" Actually, no - most of all, I love that the whole map feels like a real place, somewhere in the universe, while completely embracing the strengths and limitations of the engine.

And aside from the good looks, the encounters are rock solid. Even with Brutal Doom, it all works. Great job, can't wait for part two.

[Quineotio]

I played on HMP and beat it without dying in 22 mins. Fantastic visuals. You've used textures in unique and striking ways, and your architecture and sense of detail is impeccable. I'll answer your questions then give some more feedback. I played with brutal doom v20b.

1. Ammo balance is good. I always had plenty of ammo, but ran out of chaingun ammo a few times. There could be less ammo and it'd still be ok. I had high health and armor for most of it. There were a few difficult encounters but nothing too tricky. I will play on UV if I play again. I'd say well balanced for HMP.

2. No areas were too dark. Difficult to assess "not dark enough". You could have used more dark areas, but I don't feel like it was lacking.

3. The map generally could have had more space, but it wasn't cramped per se. The level didn't have much room to move around in which made the combat fairly linear, with not a lot of dodging around. Sometimes when a trap opened it was uncomfortably close, but it didn't ruin the experience.

The detail and variations are beautiful and creative, but because there was SO MUCH detail and the geometry and textures change so frequently, it was difficult to get a sense of where I was. Every area looked cool, but there were so many areas that it all kind of blended together into a single, detailed space. I'm talking about the main part to the level of course - there were a couple of distinct areas, like the hell bits.

But a suggestion for future maps would be to have fewer architectural styles in the level, and use those fewer styles to create distinct areas of the map. I got briefly lost a couple of times and was generally uncertain about where I was because there was so much going on visually. All of the individual details and styles were fantastic though, can't say it enough.

4. The hell sequences are readable, awesome and quite surprising. I think it's good that there's no fighting in those sections. It's confusing when you get teleported so I like it that you don't have the added stress of having to dodge and shoot. Definitely makes the level memorable.

8. I think that when you put as much effort into a level and you have with this one, adding music would be a nice finishing touch. I played with the music off and it was fine though. It's not a requirement but it's that added extra touch.

[Viggles]

Gosh, thanks for the glowing feedback! :o Nice to hear that the level plays okay in Brutal Doom - I tested it briefly but got terrible performance in the outdoor areas and decided not to officially support it.

Quineotio said:

2. No areas were too dark. Difficult to assess "not dark enough". You could have used more dark areas, but I don't feel like it was lacking.

Darkness varies a lot from port to port, and when I design a dark area to look good in zdoom software I find that gzdoom and prboom+ make it look really bright and washed out. Making those areas dark enough to look 'right' in gzdoom tends to make them too dark in software, so the result was sort of a compromise.

Quineotio said:

The detail and variations are beautiful and creative, but because there was SO MUCH detail and the geometry and textures change so frequently, it was difficult to get a sense of where I was. Every area looked cool, but there were so many areas that it all kind of blended together into a single, detailed space. I'm talking about the main part to the level of course - there were a couple of distinct areas, like the hell bits.

But a suggestion for future maps would be to have fewer architectural styles in the level, and use those fewer styles to create distinct areas of the map. I got briefly lost a couple of times and was generally uncertain about where I was because there was so much going on visually. All of the individual details and styles were fantastic though, can't say it enough.

This is interesting to hear because I'd tried to give each area a distinct color scheme and architectural identity, and had thought I'd landed on the right side of the too-many-styles line. Do you remember which particular areas suffered from this?


Still no sign of part 2, but I am planning to release another level this summer. It's less ambitious and in a very different style, but learning from many of these lessons.

[Katamori]

I doubt I ever commented here, but yes, I also have to admit: amazing map!

[hobblinharry]

I've always been more into playing full blown megawads but recently decided to start playing some single maps. I gotta say, this map was awesome! I had more fun playing this 1 map than I have had playing some 32 map packs!

[illuknisaa]

This was a pretty fun map. Only thing I really didn't like was the teleport fog when you enter the "dream". It made me think "ok I just teleported" instead of "ok this is weird".

[Viggles]

illuknisaa said:

This was a pretty fun map. Only thing I really didn't like was the teleport fog when you enter the "dream". It made me think "ok I just teleported" instead of "ok this is weird".

I hear you - I would have preferred to use Boom-style instant silent teleports for the hell teleports, but I wanted to keep the map strictly to vanilla line types. (Another option would be to override the fog sprites and sounds with empty versions, but then regular teleports would suffer too and that would make monster teleport traps unfair.)

IIRC though Boom lets you copy linedef properties onto other lines at startup, so I could implement Boom teleports that way and still fall back on regular teleports for vanilla ports.

[cortlong50]

uhhhh, this shouldve won a fuckin cacoward.

its a comfortable pack, but with an attention to detail that im always looking for.

plus its just plain fun. the first map already has me hooked.

(sorry if i bumped this or anything, but hopefully this will bump it and get it a few more downloads ebcause i am having a blast and want more people to get to play this.)

[Aquanet]

There's only one map and it did win a cacoward.

http://www.doomworld.com/22years/best2.php

Don't miss this either:

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/92776-brigandine-beta2-updated-2017-02-14/

[cortlong50]

Aquanet said:

There's only one map and it did win a cacoward.

http://www.doomworld.com/22years/best2.php

Don't miss this either:

https://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/92776-brigandine-beta2-updated-2017-02-14/

Thanks my dude!
im now playing through redemption of the slain. not sure howyou feel about brutal doom based, dynamic light driven maps, but the layout is great!


(i wonder what post processing software he used for the screenshots for brigandine, that SSAO looks great)

edit again, after a google, im realizing that ambient occlusion may be built in? what the hell? damn ive been working on this pack so hard i havent noticed all the new bells and whistles.

[Gez]

Yes GZDoom now has a few fancy optional postprocessing effects -- SSAO, bloom, and tone maps.

[Viggles]

Breach has now been updated to 1.0 and is released on idgames.

 

This version adds a titlepic and a new soundtrack by Conelrad (who also did the music for Brigandine); tidies some architecture; cleans up the automap; and makes about 6 trillion anal-retentive texture realignments. It does not add any extra levels or change the existing gameplay in any way.

 

I realise it has been 2 years since the last version. I may circle back and make part 2 at some point, but for now - barring any egregious errors I've introduced in this update - this should be considered the final release.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Viggles

[bradharding]

5 minutes ago, Viggles said:

Brigandine has now been updated to 1.0 and has been uploaded to idgames. 🤞

 

This version adds a new soundtrack by Conelrad (who also did the music for Brigandine); tidies some architecture; cleans up the automap; and makes about 6 trillion anal-retentive texture realignments. It does not add any extra levels or change the existing gameplay in any way.

 

I realise it has been 2 years since the last version. I may circle back and make part 2 at some point, but for now - barring any egregious errors I've introduced in this update - this should be considered the final release.

Awesome! You know I love this map! Checking it out now! (BTW, I think you mean "Breach" not "Brigandine"! :P )

[Agony]

On 12/30/2017 at 10:43 AM, Viggles said:

Breach has now been updated to 1.0 and is released on idgames.

 

This version adds a titlepic and a new soundtrack by Conelrad (who also did the music for Brigandine); tidies some architecture; cleans up the automap; and makes about 6 trillion anal-retentive texture realignments. It does not add any extra levels or change the existing gameplay in any way.

 

I realise it has been 2 years since the last version. I may circle back and make part 2 at some point, but for now - barring any egregious errors I've introduced in this update - this should be considered the final release.

Just want to say I found this map absolutely superb - 10 out of 10 for me.

Thank you and well done!  

A masterpiece.

 

Out of curiosity - how did you design it?  ie, did you sketch out the layout beforehand?  
What is your editor of choice?

Edited May 20, 2018 by Agony
Added some questions.

[Viggles]

Woah, sorry for leaving your questions unanswered for so long @Agony!

 

I don’t think I ever sketched the layout, I just had a jumble of scenes and vistas and visual ideas in my head - a flickering reactor, a dam, a piston jumping puzzle, a central hub, a tram station, so forth - and would sketch views of those to get a feel for the volumes in 3D.

 

Beyond that there was no planning, just a mad cramming in of ideas where they’d fit. Each idea was considered mostly in isolation and I think that’s evident in the final layout - it’s a bunch of self-contained encounter areas with a single point of connection between each.

 

Breach was mostly built in DoomBuilder 2 within a windows VM (I use a macbook). I used Slade for putting together the WAD itself but never really tried its level editor.

[elend]

You should have recorded your mapping sessions, since a map this detailed must be hell to work on. I can't even imagine how to do this. Great work, incredible texture use and overall feel of the map. I really, really enjoyed it.