Doomworld Mega Project 2015 - Now on /idgames

[tomatoKetchup]

Yes we're talking about the same ones. Just to clear things out, are they at least awaken we you come in?

[scifista42]

Yes, they are awake, and they move within their cages, they're not stuck.

EDIT: Maybe it was a random REJECT builder error that got randomly fixed when you rebuilt nodes after you edited the map with your bugfixes. I will see when you post the newer version.

[tomatoKetchup]

Alright, I took off the cages and self-referencing sectors altogether, now they just stand on a bigger platform, that might improve things.

The version as been updated on Dropbox.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mi2r56x6qucl8k3/ArchCult.wad?dl=0

[scifista42]

Now the Revenants attack - occasionally. It's a fact that whenever a monster changes direction of movement, its internal counter of "steps before attack" is reset to a random number (between 0 and 15). As a result, "turret" monsters on small platforms, limiting their movement and forcing them to repeatedly change direction, attack much less frequently than freely walking monsters. Actually, it's like a sliding scale: The more frequent changing movement direction, the less frequent attacking.

In the previous version of the map, though, the Revenants didn't attack after I've been waiting for more than half a minute. Now it's at least sometimes.

[tomatoKetchup]

Ok the platforms are bigger now. :)

[tomatoKetchup]

Another question I wanted to ask you: did you find all the secrets and if yes, do you think there were enough hinted or too random to find?

[scifista42]

I haven't found any - I wasn't actually searching for them, though. Only now I've revisited the map to find them via cheats, but accessed them legitly. They were pretty hard indeed, but that's no problem, there is no standardized "difficulty" of finding secrets. Your secrets were all fair in that they were properly hinted to, even if the hints themselves were hard to spot, and that's good. They matched the style of the map and IMO they're fine to keep as they are.

However, I've come to a conclusion that the mandatory shootable switch behind a picture in the wooden building, as well as the exit car press, were obscure and potentially easy to miss by some players, even though I personally discovered them intuitively and immediately. Better make them more obvious anyway, because if somebody actually missed them, you know what would be his fate: Re-exploring the entire map in frustration and futility.

[tomatoKetchup]

scifista42 said:

However, I've come to a conclusion that the mandatory shootable switch behind a picture in the wooden building, as well as the exit car press, were obscure and potentially easy to miss by some players, even though I personally discovered them intuitively and immediately. Better make them more obvious anyway, because if somebody actually missed them, you know what would be his fate: Re-exploring the entire map in frustration and futility.

It's funny you think that because I am pretty convinced that I left enough hints for these 2 parts for the playing to understand. IMO the frame is quite obvious and the texture unique in the whole area so it's easy to guess there something there.

The car exit might be a tad less obvious but the facts that you lead the player back to this area, the car noise and the imp wandering close seemed to me like a fair amount of clues. I am a bit reluctant to display an exit sign there for cohesion's sake.

[Protester]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z6y9e7v5hwtr0hb/A%20Clear%20Line%20Drawn.wad?dl=0

I present, My first released map!
Its a bit easy on HMP, but I can say it is well scaled for difficulty.
(gets a bit tight on UV ;])
I might need some work somewhere, so please don't be gentle with the feedback!

[joe-ilya]

What compability is this?

[scifista42]

I have looked at Protester's map in SLADE3 and there is no way it can be compatible with other ports than ZDoom-based ones. There is a PNG custom graphic, and TEXTURE1/PNAMES don't contain stock texture definitions, both of which will break classic ports - with a setup like that, I expect the map to contain zdoomisms without even looking at it.

Spoiler

In case you don't know, zdoomisms are design choices that only work properly in ZDoom-based ports, even if the map is in vanilla/Boom format, due to specific ways how ZDoom changes engine behaviour. For example, linedefs with S1/SR/W1/WR/G1/GR action should never use tag 0 to refer to the linedef's back side sector. For another example, any linedef with any kind of action (even a walkover, or scrolling texture...) will block player's attempts to press use through it to activate a switch behind it.

If the intended lowest compatibility was something else than ZDoom-only, the wad needs to be revised. If not, I still await official confirmation of the intended lowest-compatible source port, and if this is a port with jumping/crouching, then I need to know if your map allows jumping/crouching.

[Protester]

Accidentally double posted because forum
Interface on the iPhone sucks

[Protester]

Haha, oops, got too excited releasing it to give the details. I made it in boom format, but tested it with zdoom and zandronum only. Thanks for the useful info, I will remake it back the way I wanted it, to at least boom compatible.
Jump and crouch is fine by the way, it won't hurt the map any.

[tomatoKetchup]

Scifista, I just uploaded the last version of my map. It includes Players 2-4 starts and a few deathmatch starts just to have them, an exit sign at the end, and some minor thing replacement.

The link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mi2r56x6qucl8k3/ArchCult.wad?dl=0

[Protester]

Okay, its all set up, I just need some common noob advice on this sky part. How do you make the sky be custom without the traditional map-info and keep it within boom compat?

[Walter confetti]

Played protester map, is a pretty cool techbase map and a awesome map to be a first time!

Sure there's a lot of unpegged and few misaligned textures here and there, but overall is a pretty good map! Good job, protester!

Protester said:

Okay, its all set up, I just need some common noob advice on this sky part. How do you make the sky be custom without the traditional map-info and keep it within boom compat?

- add a little external sector from the main map layout like this:



- go to any linedef in this new sector, select it with your command of edit linedef and then type 217 in the edit box:



- in the sidedefs edit box, fill the upper section with your sky texture (e. g. BFALL1)



You have your personal skybox for boom, ya-hoo!

If you have one or more sectors tagged with a sky in it, repeat the same process above but add the designed tag that inflict said sector, or it will appear the default sky!

[scifista42]

walter confalonieri said:

type 217

271

[Protester]

Thanks Walter! You've given me the final step to the equation... I present 1.1, hopefully the final version.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fwey2xxkzy8u0rd/A%20Clear%20Line%20Drawn%201.1.wad?dl=0
NOTE: Boom Compatible, jump and crouch is OKAY, and difficulties are supported.

This map project looks really promising, i'm looking forward to the release!

[scifista42]

Protester said:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fwey2xxkzy8u0rd/A%20Clear%20Line%20Drawn%201.1.wad?dl=0
NOTE: Boom Compatible, jump and crouch is OKAY, and difficulties are supported.

FDA. Looks like you only tested in GLBoom-plus (if not GZDoom), because there were lots of HOMs on sky horizons, as well as texture errors with computer screens and other textures. There was an Imp stuck on a ledge near the start, an unpickable armor bonus near the remote lift switch, and lastly, the pit drop before yellow key was annoying due to infinitely tall Demons down there.

That said, the design is fantastic. Impressive layout, architecture, interconnectivity, texturing and detailing, decent lighting and good "sense of space". I didn't even mind that corridors were slightly cramped, it might have actually affected combat positively! The gameplay, contrarily to first impression, is challenging and unforgiving, which definitely prevents the map from being boring. I often thought there could be slightly more health, but it would harm the challenge which I thought was very well done (for a semi-realistic techbase), at least mostly.

Fix the bugs and compatibility with software PrBoom-plus and all would be great! We could already proclaim your map to be GLBoom-only, but I think it would be better to fix it for PrBoom-plus users instead. Also, thanks for making and contributing the map!

[Dylan Jarvis]

Can I join this?

[scifista42]

Sure, you're in.

[GregLafitte]

I know we still have a while to decide this but I honestly like the idea of the maps being in 1 wad but with a notice when you enter a new compatibility set like in one of the earlier projects that was just a thought though.

[EffinghamHuffnagel]

Protester said:

Thanks Walter! You've given me the final step to the equation... I present 1.1, hopefully the final version.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fwey2xxkzy8u0rd/A%20Clear%20Line%20Drawn%201.1.wad?dl=0

No. First, your outside walls are not skyboxes, they're just walls with missing textures. Second, a dozen Revenants never teleported in because you're missing sector tags 20 and 21. Thirdly, a stuck Imp on the first central platform.

I found four Green Armors and four Backpacks. That seems a bit excessive, especially since two of the Green Armors are in the same room right next to each other.

I like doors that don't open in a map. I think it makes the map feel larger. But what's up with the blocked switch right next to the exit? I spent another 15 minutes going back through everything to see what I had missed. I finally clipped to throw the switch and found it didn't work. That's just wrong. And I hate timed lifts/doors/etc that aren't for secrets, but are necessary to continue.

I love the picture of the goofy baby. It made no sense, but I loved it. But I think the hidden door that first leads into the tunnel area might be too hidden. The orange/green-stained section of BROWN1 is a valid hint, but it doesn't stand out because that same section of texture is also used in the rest of the room. I only noticed it on the automap.

Otherwise, very nice. Nothing stood out wrong gameplay-wise. The Cyber played with the Arachno and then the Cacos, so I could run around and collect everything and leave. That was fun. No real slaughterfest attacks, but some real tough ones.

[Protester]

This is very good information, I'll work to fix those slap-dash skybox trap closets. I think I might make that exit a bit more understandable, and give the map a better (and prettier) conclusion. The rev thing was a dumb mistake, thank you for pointing it out.
Alas, i'm a bit crunched on time recently. I'll get it done soon, though.

[GregLafitte]

I changed the format of my map to boom: https://www.mediafire.com/?oeqnaek4t1cdo98

Its the same level but works with boom now.

[scifista42]

Did you just open "Map Options" and change "Doom in Hexen format" to "Boom"? This is not how changing formats should be done. Doom and Hexen format have not only different sector effect and linedef action numbers, but different file structure whatsoever. I'm kinda surprised that your map works at all, and that linedef triggers work as intended. Anyway, HALF SECTORS in the entire map now have DAMAGING floors where they shouldn't be. And "Line 593's right edge is unconnected.", I think it's the linedef outside of the map's boundaries near the start area. Please fix those.

[GregLafitte]

I am so sorry for that lol, I was tired when I worked on it but I fixed those problems now: https://www.mediafire.com/?7q4o1z14ozlzak4

[scifista42]

One more little problem: The texture "MIDGRATE" has transparent parts, which means that it should only be used as a middle texture, not upper or lower one (ZDoom-based ports fixed it, though). In this place, you use it as an upper texture of a few doors, which results in a "tutti-frutti" bug in PrBoom-plus, an undefined glitchy display which may look differently in different ports. It would be better if you fixed that as well, by changing the texture.

[GregLafitte]

fixed it: http://www.mediafire.com/download/2cesnv7n0jnjng8/Renegade.wad

[scifista42]

Seems OK now, thanks.