[Wolfenstein: Blade of Agony] Achievement Ideas? (p13)

[dew]

7 hours ago, IvanDobrovski said:

You don't see this kind of depiction in many games, the reality is often not even spoken about but it doesn't change that they happened, they did happen with historic evidence.

Indeed, there are very few depictions of concentration camps in movies and basically none in video games. Surprisingly few even in literature. It is extremely hard to get it right, factually or tonally, to give the topic justice. I mean, it's most likely the greatest atrocity in the history of humankind, so no pressure! This is why it was left mostly to survivors and Jewish authors to choose how to tackle its messaging. And what's been paramount to this is that you pick a lane and then stick with it. You want to show the entire awfulness, you keep it somber. You want to humanize the victims, you uplift it with a parody. But you simply do not cross the beams and flipflop between a violent campy power fantasy, parodic jokes and homages, and extremely gruesome "historically accurate" details. That sends a message that you don't really give a shit about the underlying issue and it's just window dressing for your silly fps. Do silly fps games have the right to exist? Sure, but their authors don't get to dictate what's tactful or sensible.

 

Let us postulate a simple axiom that BoA miserably failed to follow:
You shall not cross over concentrated camp and concentration camps.

[Obsidian]

Seems that Tormentor has made his stance clear in regards to the situation and as such I feel like leaving the thread open no longer serves any useful purpose.

[Mordeth]

I've just banned @Tormentor667 indefinitely.

 

Normally we don't announce stuff like this publicly, but since Torm is a high-profile modder perhaps the larger community deserves to hear the reasoning behind it. In short, while (with a lot of goodwill) you could just regard the more objectionable content in BoA(3) as just done in (extremely) bad taste by a well-known tone deaf edgelord, there's also content that's completely unacceptable. Such as making fun of Marisa Heit for being who she is. However, what sealed the deal for me was Torm's responses to this, both here and on the WolfenDoom GitHub tracker: a complete lack of comprehension and lots of accusations.  It is really sad that it has come to this, but enough is enough.

 

Further BoA threads and posts here are fine. Torm's ban however is a decision that is not up for questioning.

 

I do wish Tormentor667 all the best. But unfortunately, that has to be elsewhere.

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

I still remember when years ago, after gratuitously attacking me on my Youtube channel about my past controversies, you used the front page of Realm667 to further attack me and call me a terrible person in order to get some clout. That was the last interaction I had with you in years. As always, it's not surprising to see that those who loves pointing fingers at others also have skeletons in their closets.

However I won't use this moment as an opportunity to have revenge and laugh at the irony. Instead, if you are still reading this thread, I want to give you some friendly advice.

I'm no specialist in European laws, but not too long ago a Scottish youtuber went to prison for teaching his dog to do a nazi salute.
Now, take a look at your own situation, you have created a free game that got widely distributed and covered by gaming press, and on this game, you included zombified holocaust victims that you must shoot in the face, making players kinda participate into the holocaust themselves.

And not just any holocaust victims, apparently there are claims that the level in question takes place in a holocaust extermination facility based in a real-life facility, where real jews were actually exterminated. You are portraying real people, who had their obituaries registered at this specific place and whose names can be tracked, into goofy undead monsters to be killed. You are mocking the deaths of specific victims who still have living families, even if you claim it's not your intention.

You made it all, you projected it, worked on it for months, years, while being a German, that grew up and was educated in Germany, still living and working in Germany, without thinking about the consequences of doing this.
Now compare your situation to what caused Count Dankula to go to prison.
Look, nobody here can force you to take down your Github and Realm667's download pages, it's ultimately your choice whether you want to delete these stuff or not, but try to stop and think for a minute what you are doing with your life, because you are clearly not thinking.

[DavidN]

That was a great post, Sgt - I’m beginning to think I may have judged you too harshly myself for past actions!
 

I rather regret contributing to this now - I knew of the museum but put it down to it meaning to be awful and unsettling, but I wasn’t aware of the contents of part 3. I’ve been to Dachau and it’s a completely unimaginable, unsettling feeling to know what happened there.

[Murdoch]

2 hours ago, Mordeth said:

I've just banned @Tormentor667 indefinitely.

 

Good call. The guy just cannot seem to get out of his own way, and has a pattern of blaming others and not accepting responsibility for his mistakes. The sad thing is he probably still feels like he is the victim here.

[IvanDobrovski]

I fail to see the reasoning for reopening this thread if he's banned for good. Hasn't there been enough discussion already? Things already moved out to github.

[Sammy J]

I know my exploding shotgunner is pretty bad. But I checked the sprite animation for the female & male torture victims & their animations are designed in a method that requires melee weapons to be used against them. It would only take a single script to generate an entirely customizable torture chamber using these sprites. If I were a betting man, I'd wager there is more unreleased material that should never be made public.

[The BMFG]

what the fuck is up with all of this drama and people putting fucked up and dehumanizing shit in their wads. what has suddenly made all of this happen for well known modders like @Impie or @Tormentor667 to suddenly start putting lies or just massively disrespectful shit in their mods which in both situations has gotten them perma banned. this is starting to shape out as the dark ages of doom modding 

Edited June 9, 2021 by The BMFG

[RDETalus]

1 minute ago, The BMFG said:

what the fuck is up with all of this drama and people putting fucked up and dehumanizing shit in their wads. what has suddenly made all of this happen for well known modders like @Impie or @Tormentor667 to suddenly start putting lies or just massively disrespectful shit in their mods which in both situations has gotten them perma banned. this is starting to shape out as the dark ages of doom modding 

In Impie's defense (of just the mod itself), those dialogue lines were spoken by a character who gets humbled by a close death later in the story.

[leodoom85]

The damage is done and there's no way to revert it back......

[Sammy J]

1 minute ago, leodoom85 said:

The damage is done and there's no way to revert it back......

 

Absolutely. The female sprites never should have been created considering the vast amount of sadistic scenarios they can be scripted for. The only reason for that material to exist is self indulgence & now the world has copies to use them in Doom. Banned is probably too late.

[roadworx]

16 minutes ago, The BMFG said:

what the fuck is up with all of this drama and people putting fucked up and dehumanizing shit in their wads. what has suddenly made all of this happen for well known modders like @Impie or @Tormentor667 to suddenly start putting lies or just massively disrespectful shit in their mods which in both situations has gotten them perma banned.

what makes you think that this was sudden and out of nowhere? both of those people have a history of being enormous fuckheads, they just feel more open to spew their horrendous shit everywhere due to the recent rise in the far-right's presence online

 

16 minutes ago, The BMFG said:

this is starting to shape out as the dark ages of doomworld modding 

HA

 

lol no it's not, just cuz some assholes finally had consequences for their shitty actions doesn't mean this is a dark age. if you wanna see a dark age then go look at the dying doom community of the late 90s, literally everything i read about that era was more or less about how doom was slowly dying until source ports became a thing

Edited June 9, 2021 by roadworx

[The BMFG]

1 minute ago, roadworx said:

what makes you think that this was sudden and out of nowhere? both of those people have a history of being enormous fuckheads, they just feel more open to spew their horrendous shit everywhere due to the recent rise in the far-right's presence online

 

HA

 

lol no it's not, just cuz some assholes finally had consequences for their shitty actions doesn't mean this is a dark age. if you wanna see a dark age then go look at the dying doom community of the late 90s

yea. now i just realized i was being a tad bit too dramatic there. i have just never seen so many things go down on doomworld in such a small span of time

[Murdoch]

14 minutes ago, The BMFG said:

what the fuck is up with all of this drama and people putting fucked up and dehumanizing shit in their wads. what has suddenly made all of this happen for well known modders like @Impie or @Tormentor667 to suddenly start putting lies or just massively disrespectful shit in their mods which in both situations has gotten them perma banned. this is starting to shape out as the dark ages of doom modding 

 

Let's not be melodramatic. Two know jackasses acted like jackasses and got dealt to because people got sick of their shit. Two idiots do not a pattern make.

[dac]

21 minutes ago, The BMFG said:

this is starting to shape out as the dark ages of doom modding 

 

Nah, all that'll happen is some people who already think this community is full of nazis will feel justified for an hour, journalist will report on it then go back to crediting "someone" for when the next popular Doom mod pops up.

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

55 minutes ago, dac said:

journalist will report on it then go back to crediting "someone" for when the next popular Doom mod pops up.

Better than crediting "somemong" every time I guess

Edited June 9, 2021 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[Muusi]

Never had real interest in this mod but after a historic shitstorm like this i sure as hell downloaded it immediately in case stuff gets purged. Anything that gets people this riled up i have to experience myself. Those female gore sprites alone sure make you think what's going on in the authors head.

[roadworx]

30 minutes ago, Muusi said:

Never had real interest in this mod but after a historic shitstorm like this i sure as hell downloaded it immediately in case stuff gets purged. Anything that gets people this riled up i have to experience myself. Those female gore sprites alone sure make you think what's going on in the authors head.

careful, it might fry your gpu

[big smoke]

what is it with this drama?
i remember back in the day people were cool with this wad 
now they are saying it is bad now 
like can someone explain to me what is happening (or happened) 

[Edward850]

12 minutes ago, bigsmoke1919 said:

what is it with this drama?
i remember back in the day people were cool with this wad 
now they are saying it is bad now 
like can someone explain to me what is happening (or happened) 

 Start here.

[roadworx]

23 minutes ago, bigsmoke1919 said:

what is it with this drama?
i remember back in the day people were cool with this wad 
now they are saying it is bad now 
like can someone explain to me what is happening (or happened) 

torm attempted to make the most offensive, tasteless, fucked up wolfenstein tc ever, and he succeeded

 

then he made everything worse by being...well, torm.

Edited June 9, 2021 by roadworx

[Tarnsman]

22 minutes ago, roadworx said:

torm attempted to make the most offensive, tasteless, fucked up wolfenstein tc ever, and he succeeded

 

Come on. There are still far more levels of extremely offensive he could have reached.

 

Like for instance having a stable frame rate on most machines, thus enabling more people to experience the content in question.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Tarnsman

[Edward850]

Just now, Tarnsman said:

Like for instance, having a stable frame rate on most machines, thus enabling more people to experience the content in question.

Frame rate? BoA wasn't supposed to be a power point presentation?

[roadworx]

3 minutes ago, Tarnsman said:

 

Come on. There are still far more levels of extremely offensive he could have reached.

 

Like for instance having a stable frame rate on most machines, thus enabling more people to experience the content in question.

idk, i think something so bad that it gives your gpu convulsions could be considered pretty offensive

[Doomkid]

13 hours ago, IvanDobrovski said:

I fail to see the reasoning for reopening this thread if he's banned for good. Hasn't there been enough discussion already? Things already moved out to github.

Gotta second this, the DramaWorld days are supposed to be in the past, it's so wrote and tired by now. I'm personally just sad that Torm apparently didn't learn anything from all this, the few interactions we had were pleasant even though they started with me being a bit of a prick to him. For his own sake, legally and otherwise, he should just distance himself from this mod forever. I hope he realizes how moronic the last few chapters of his community involvement have been, and I gotta hope the poor taste stuff in here is just extreme ignorance rather than being indicative of something far worse..

 

The plagiarism was bad, the "fake leaving the community" bit was goddamn hilarious (and I was honestly on his side for that one), but this is just.. sad, weird, and really ignorant.. and hopefully that's all it is.. With the lack of any sort of apology or reasonable response at all though, you have to wonder. E: It seems he's at least keeping R667 up despite all the recent controversies, so points where due I suppose.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Doomkid

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

I think the thread should remain open, not only because destruction of art (no matter how bad taste it is) is wrong, but also because any attempts to censorship the mod will result in Streisand Effect.
The worst part of everything is already over, now that everything is listed and people are warned of the content before playing the mod, the mod itself poses no threat.

Except for Tormentor himself, which at this time probably should have microwaved his HDD for his own safety. Somebody should warn him that he forgot to take down the main BoA page and the GitHub.

[DevilMyEyes]

These news about the mod are pretty sad, but I think the worst thing is that people supported and gave money to Tormentor.

I mean, why the fuck didn't he thought of this first? wouldn't he know that making a level based off a REAL concentration camp would cause 

controversy? It's completly mindless and what impresses me is that this controversy happened with a wolf3D mod, Sonderkommando Revolt.

It got banned. And it also gives another another reason why this shouldn't have been done.

 

 

Edited June 9, 2021 by DevilMyEyes

[roadworx]

17 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

Gotta second this, the DramaWorld days are supposed to be in the past, it's so wrote and tired by now. I'm personally just sad that Torm apparently didn't learn anything from all this, the few interactions we had were pleasant even though they started with me being a bit of a prick to him. For his own sake, legally and otherwise, he should just distance himself from this mod forever. I hope he realizes how moronic the last few chapters of his community involvement have been, and I gotta hope the poor taste stuff in here is just extreme ignorance rather than being indicative of something far worse..

 

The plagiarism was bad, the "fake leaving the community" bit was goddamn hilarious (and I was honestly on his side for that one), but this is just.. sad, weird, and really ignorant.. and hopefully that's all it is.. With the lack of any sort of apology or reasonable response at all though, you have to wonder. 

well, you know what they say.

 

if it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck

[Doom64hunter]

Parts of this thread make me wonder how "Wolfenstein: The New Order" would be received if it was released today.

 

Well at least the part about leaving the community came true now.

Edited June 9, 2021 by Doom64hunter