The DWmegawad Club plays: Doom 2 Reloaded

[SyntherAugustus]

KiiiYiiiKiiiA said:

Also, Blackfish, enjoying ur playthroughs. It gives me context when I read through people's comments about the various levels. I hope you keep doing these. :)

Thanks!

Just a quick note: I'll be doing overhire work starting tomorrow which will eat up most of the day depending on the schedule. It's a 1.5hr commute each way and I'll be working 11hr days(!). If I'm working as long as I think I'll be, don't expect any more vids until the weekend at the very least.

Didn't want to listen to Running from Evil again so I decided to load up D2RMUS. The familiar track made me think I was playing some Duke3d level, since this midi seems to be popular in the compilation I'm playing.

The level isn't terribly hard. You just need to watch for some things (like, don't charge into the AV room with the rocket launcher!)

I got bored with the Smooth Doom settings so you'll be seeing the Zombieman rifle and the Duke explosion settings being turned on.

A quick guide to the secret level, as shown in the video.

-There is a terminal that leads you to the BFG room. In that room there is another terminal. When you press it, you see the number one.
-This opens a room in the green sphere secret with another terminal, being number two.
-This then opens a room in the soulsphere secret with yet another terminal, being number 3.
-Finally, this opens a terminal shown in secret in the beginning of the level. This secret room is very easy to miss since not only is the column the switch is in is not obvious, it's hard to press as well. This final terminal will open a door behind you to the secret level.

[purist]

14

I agree this feels like a filler map and that it feels like it's between locations. The gameplay is very ordinary with only the Spiderdemon fight causing me any sort of threat. If this was midway through E1 I might complain more but the monotony has been broken by a few changes in theme in the last few levels so I'm prepared to be more forgiving as a result.

15

I liked this level quite a lot. It could possibly be the best level so far. It doesn't have MAP09's high concept but it does have plenty of action with groups of monsters being released on a regular basis. My only real critism is that it has something of a false start with a lot of switch slapping with no real excitement to accompany it until the first key is found. It wouldn't have hurt to have cut that first section out completely. I forgot to even look for the secret exit so it will be MAP16 for me next.

[VGA]

Can't wait to read comments about MAP18 :-D

[Capellan]

map15
A map where there are actually multiple routes to choose from at times? What sorcery is this???

Another pretty nice-looking level, though it seems the author is more comfortable doing interior areas than exteriors: most of these “city” maps so far are largely base maps with brief exterior sequences to provide a sense of place. Good fights on the whole too. A sneaky pinkie ambush ‘good at Doom’ed me at one point.

Didn’t find the secret exit. I did find the first two of the ‘laptops’ needed to get there, but having looked in DB2 at what was needed to complete the sequence, there was no way I was ever going to have the patience to do so. Secrets that open new cubicles in other secrets that you (a) also have to find and (b) might already have visited. Oy. Oh well, two maps I won’t see, then.

[mouldy]

Map14 - “Underground”

Bit of a scenic journey this one, although some of scenery felt a bit spartan perhaps. Straight away I thought oo a city map, nice.. and then realised that the path was pretty much a straight line from a to b with little deviation. There was another toilet to enjoy though, complete with imps in the ladies. Interesting idea for the red key secret, having the imp open the door for you, but you can really only find that out by accident like i did, and if you killed that imp then no goodies for you, and you wouldn't even know why. Secrets are very generous as usual, still I found ammo a bit tight here and there until i got the plasma rifle. Not a bad map, carries the plot forward I guess.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP15 South Central

I know what map I don't like, this one! at the beginning you have to coax a hell knight away from a switch so you can acquire a lovely berserk and shotgun. rest of the map had things interesting and uninteresting. that one giant lift to the south with all those monsters is quite memorable. just before the outdoor portion is a room with several color bars, with a very redundant switch. I had found no use of the rocket launcher or the secret BFG in this map, although if I played on a higher difficulty I know I'll be fighting much more. Andy does try to hide the secret exit well, with numbered monitors, but I found all of them. not a good map for me.

MAP31 Entryway Reloaded

although I generally have a positive view on D2RELOAD the secret maps don't do it for me. this one is just a nicer-looking Entryway, that's it. it's not any difficult. the secret exit requires knowledge of one secret exit as well as a bit of Half-Minute Hero'ing, if you know what I mean.

MAP32? oh, that holds a special place in my heart...

[Demon of the Well]

Map 13 -- Slimefalls - 100% Kills / 75% Secrets
This one's pretty cool, I think. It definitely delivers the thematic changeup that the WAD has been in need of for at least a couple of maps now, and not just by switching to a different 'tileset' (though it does that, too)--this is easily the most "3D" map to this point, which not only distinguishes the flavor of the map's progression from its predecessors, but does wonders for its believability as a unique location, as opposed to a venue that exists solely to stage some monster-shooting. Actually, if you consider just how architecturally simple and linear most of the maps so far have been, it's all the more impressive that Eschdoom is able to consistently establish setting as well as he does, but 'Slimefalls' adds some extra depth to his standby layout style--quite literally!

Map 01 notwithstanding, the vertical element in previous maps has tended to center largely on occasional crate-climbing segments (not that we don't all deeply revere the Crate Ones, as has recently been shown) amongst all of the duct-crawling and hallway-sweeping, and even then quite a lot of said content was technically optional; in 'Slimefalls' navigating around, through, and ultimately across the large central pumping chamber is the meat of the map. By establishing a major environmental obstacle as the focus of the map's gameplay (rather than treating it as a pretense for what actually happens in the map, ala "Lockdown" or the like), Eschdoom gets a lot more mileage out of a relatively limited amount of playspace, and incidentally introduces some room for variation in progression as well--a lot of the sequence of events is pretty linear, but there's more than one way to handle the red key, and more than one workable approach to handling some of the encounters in and around the actual pumping station. In-world objectives are also thus more richly impactful on the experience as well; while raising the comms antenna in map 06 was entertaining enough, from a traversal perspective the effect was largely cosmetic, whereas in this map disabling the main pump and thus raising the slime level has a very pronounced effect not only on the way the environment looks, but also on how it plays. Even drives another clever type of secret concealment that we've not seen previously in the WAD, I'm surprised I remembered when/where/how to get that soulsphere (forgot the megasphere again though, I don't believe I've ever let the vile live long enough for me to have time to realize I needed his services).

Some of the early action is fairly nondescript, but as per usual Eschdoom's monster placement strikes me as quite deliberate and well thought-out (even where the action itself is very basic), particularly in and around the main pumping station as aforementioned. Being fired upon by an arachnatron and various undead soldiers from across the initial gap while being harried by airborne monstrosities drifting up from below works well, particularly with lurking revenants and others placed to keep you from trying to hide in convenient alcoves to let the flyers come to you. As is often the case in maps of this general type (i.e. slime/chasm maps), the underlying theme of combat tends to be restricted movement space, but the contrast between a more visually open/tall setting in the main chamber and the much more immediately claustrophobic confines of the maintenance lifts on the north side keeps things feeling fresh throughout. The big hammy clot of monsters at the end is not particularly effective, but I reckon they're intended as more of an aesthetic feature, anyway.

I would also say that this a rather good-looking map, albeit in an understated sort of way. All of the standard concourse perks that characterize Eschdoom's mapping are still in effect (e.g. tasteful lighting choices)as usual, but it's the shift in the texture scheme that's really a sight for sore eyes. I'm quite glad for the break from the glaring white paneling that was the signature of the last couple of maps, and honestly would've considered a return to the joyless concrete/metal theme of earlier maps a respite, but what I get instead is a nice combo of some of my favorite stock textures (albeit still base-grey, granted)--the mossy/mildewy green mortar of the initial sewage tunnels, the damp, dark masonry of the oldest infrastructure, and the slime-stained cement of the outflow reservoir (where the red key is located) contrast nicely with the shiny stainless steel of the pumps themselves, and the greater degree of verticality in the construction makes for a wider variety of scenic views, I particularly like the mid-height view into the pumping station from atop one of the early slimefalls.

[Sui Generis]

Map15 - “South Central”
Despite spending ages combing the level, I only found 60% of the secrets. I returned to some of them that I found and activated 3 of the consoles, but try as I might I couldn't find the last two secrets. I then watched the first two minutes of Blackfish's video, found the latter two and despaired that I was so close to finding them myself. *sigh*

As for the map itself, I guess it's ok. My mind wasn't really blown, although I did like some of the demon releases behind near the final section, which pressured me to go forward rather than play cautiously. Incidentally, I was quite surprised at the lack of resistance on the exterior of the silver yellow key structure. I was expecting a big warp in with archies at the very least, with the possibility of a Cyb, but none were forthcoming. It's odd how we've moved away from the city theme again, going back to another base, just with a token road in the exterior. I'll never know whether I'd have found that one final switch protecting the last two secrets and the secret exit. I do agree that the start area seems a bit superfluous at the moment (notwithstanding that secret of course...)

[Salt-Man Z]

MAP14: Underground
Okay map. Nice to look at, but pretty dang boring. The secret red key area had me confounded; I assume that's the one where you're supposed to get the imp to open the door from the inside? Blech. I got stuck very near the end: when I came out of the caverns and back into the subway tunnel, I hopped out of the ductwork and somehow missed the steps in the wall heading back up into the ducts (on the other side of the grate). I thought it was just a dead-end, and spent another 10 minutes retracing every inch of the map a couple more times.

MAP15: South Central
This one was great, though yeah, the first section was relatively obnoxious. I managed to find two of the secret laptops (well, that's what they look like!) on my own, and the other with a tiny bit of IDDT, but the other one evaded me until I watched Blackfish's video. It was the very first secret that I missed! That hidden switch can go suck a [REDACTED].

MAP31: Entryway Reloaded
It's just Entryway reskinned, but it sure looks neat. I can see where the secret exit is, thanks to ZDoom's automap, but I have no idea how to access it.

[Havoc Crow]

MAP15: South Central

Well, this map sure kicked my ass. It does have a bunch of tricky moments which can very well kill a new player. It took me the longest time to complete so far, about an hour in total.

It is a good map, however--after all, I re-tried it four times without getting too frustrated, so it has good gameplay and interesting challenges. Probably the most memorable moment is the horde of Demons which shows up unannounced with a mancubus or two in tow; near the end we get a reprise in the form of the Demon horde which suddenly assaults us from behind while we're busy cleaning up. I really like the map's open, freeform structure. I'm not sure about the difficulty level--with my BFG I had no real problems, but if someone was playing this from pistol start they might have more trouble with the hordes. Overall, this is one of the highlights of the set, right there with "Waste Processing" and "Slimefalls".

The visuals aren't that interesting, mostly dark gray, which makes for a somewhat dull experience for the eyes. There were a few puzzling moments--a switch in the building's lobby which seems to do nothing except for closing a small barrier behind you (or is that for getting a safe vantage point to kill the revenants?), and a laptop in a secret area near the end which displays the number 1 when pressed. I never managed to find the secret exit, unfortunately, even after using IDDT. I've also heard something hissing open when approaching the switch to lower the blue key, I'm assuming it's a secret I never found.

[cannonball]

Map15 - “South Central”
I had trouble finding the secret in the first area, so I needed to look it up in doombuilder to find it, yeah that was a really obscure secret switch. The rest were easy to find and the switch gimmick I knew from before.
This map is probably one of the strongest of the set so far, that said it isn't really that hard to be honest. Hitscan abuse seems less harsh than other maps and there were few big monsters to deal with. The non-linearity of the first two thirds of the map helps here too. Nice map

Map31 - “Entryway Reloaded”
Very little to say here, I didn't find the secret exit. It is a re-hash of the original Map01, though it is stylishly done and holds a few extra baddies here and there.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 14 -- Underground - 104% Kills / 100% Secrets
Yep, pretty straightforward, this, and more in the linear/hallway style of earlier maps from the WAD. The stark white paneling makes another appearance here, but it's in a similar 'travel terminal' context as was seen in map 12, and so looks fairly natural/innocuous, helped along by the inclusion of the new concrete texture with the single blue racing stripe, looks surprisingly authentic (although no real-world subway is likely to be as clean as this is, occasional corpse aside). The look of the city blocks/buildings is not particularly articulate, especially when viewed from the rocket launcher secret (e.g. it becomes clear that all of the yards are artificially featureless, and most have no way to access them from a pedestrian standpoint). The later area of the map, which takes place in a collapsed subway tunnel turned hell-nest, is probably a casualty of the mapset's pseudorealistic bent, being essentially a short 'maze' of cramped grey hallways, albeit much more jagged and irregular in contour in comparison to the utilitarian access corridors of earlier maps, as one might expect. On the whole, it's not a particularly striking map from an aesthetic standpoint, and coming off of map 13 it kind of feels like there should be more depth/features to the ruined underground environment, but it is good to see more of the stock textures again.

The gameplay's palatable enough, but no one specific encounter or setup really asserts itself as particularly noteworthy. I reckon I probably had the best time of it early on in the map, largely because I played rather poorly in the opening couple of minutes and so had to dash for the safety of the red-locked ticket/service station in order to hold out against the encroaching arch-viles and their slavering lackeys (having foreknowledge of the map definitely proved to be invaluable here). I found the spiderdemon fight sensible enough, not very threatening unless you're too chicken to press forward a bit to the conveniently placed blursphere, but at least she had enough space to move/fire comfortably. The aforementioned hell-nest at the end is the definite low point, not much of interest in there other than a couple of strangely overpowered late secrets (maybe map 15 is nastier than I remember it being?), and some pretty naff Baron placement for a WAD that has generally used that monster in sensible ways prior to this.

[scifista42]

Map31 - “Entryway Reloaded”

It's Entryway after a fantastic visual overhaul in D2Reload-esque style with increased effort put into detail. Like MAP07, it's not supposed to be taken too seriously. IMO, this one actually turned out much better than MAP07, and I liked it! Enjoyable short walkthrough, featuring deja-vu feelings, multiple surprises, and admiration for the details and texturing / structural changes. However, I must seriously gripe about access to the super secret exit. I disliked how it was time-limited, which I've found out via examining the map in an editor. I know that the timed door feature doesn't get used often, but that's not a good excuse to justify unfairness to the player. I'll visit MAP32 from pistol start, I guess.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP15: South Central

On the one hand, this gets points for deviating extensively from the expectations of the classic MAP15, on the other hand... it deviates from those expectations by serving up another level dominated by the 'clean techbase' look, as the player fights their way out of the guts of some industrial facility and takes a brief detour through the city streets on their way to what looks like a subway station but is (according to the title of the next level) a research facility.

I wasn't exactly firing on all cylinders when I tackled this one so I ended up finding only one of its five secrets (the blue armour/BFG secret) and missing out on the secret level. I may skip to that and do it from a pistol start or search it out in a subsequent playthrough.

The moments that stuck with me were the various ambushes, particularly the massive swarm of pinkie demons unleashed in the bowels of the initial techbase.

[Capellan]

map16
Not a fan of the blind leap into nukage required by this map. A rad suit somewhere reasonably prominent would have made that step of progression a lot more obvious. Also not a fan of the ‘distant chaingunner behind an opaque 2-sided line’ at one point.

Once more we’re in a base-style level, this time with only a view of the city, not even a walk down one of its streets (you can teleport to another building and kill that sniper chaingunner if you find a secret, but only to look at one room).

Sniper and progression quibbles aside it’s a solid level with some nice set-piece battles and - like the last level - more freedom in how you progress than any of the first episode’s maps. The visuals have definitely picked up from the first few levels, as well. It seems “eschdoom” was evolving in skill as he went.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP15: South Central
100% kills, 5/5* secrets

Hey, finally, some light variation! Lots of dark and dim areas in this one, which helps set the stage as a run-down urban decay area, though this is also partially undone by large amounts of the level being tech base-y (is the start supposed to be some sort of jail cell, or something?) The yellow key area in particular feels overly bright and bland after the rest of the map, would've liked to spend more time on the streets. There are a couple of good ambushes here, liking the pinkie swarms - especially the second one, which caught me off guard as it comes from relatively far away.

The secrets are pretty difficult this time around - I found the BFG one no problem, and then the invuln one with some searching for the secret exit, but the soulsphere eluded me until I did some IDDT and the one in the starting area until I did some reading here and then close analysis of the mini-map. Apparently they have to be hit in order, too, which seems somewhat vague. Onwards to the not-earned secret level!

MAP31: Entryway Reloaded
100% kills, 6/6 secrets

This is actually somewhat of what I expected when I first heard of Doom 2 Reloaded, lots of homages and recreations, which we haven't gotten, thankfully (apart from MAP07). It's a cute remix of Entryway, I guess, with a few bigger monsters and not much else to note. Except for the dickish super secret exit, which is stuck behind a "closes in 30 seconds" door, BOO.

I already played a bit of MAP32, and it's a doozy, will have to return to finish it later.

[mouldy]

Map15 - “South Central”

That was an awkward start with no weapons. But anyway, after that we go on an intriguing journey through dark corridors and mysterious computery rooms. A very unpredictable map which appears to branch off in all directions at one point, I gave up trying to remember where I was going and where i'd been. Then i realised I had a red and blue key, though i don't remember picking them up, and outside i go into the fresh air at last. Those pain elementals gave me some trouble flying up where I couldn't see them and spewing out lost souls. Then suddenly I had a yellow key which I didn't remember picking up either, and all that remained was to find the secret exit. I quite enjoyed hunting for all the secrets, and managed to find them all along with the exit to map31. So all in all a successful map with no complaints.

Map31 - “Entryway Reloaded”

Not much to say here I guess, entryway with some fancy trimmings. The super secret exit stumped me for a while, its kind of lucky I heard a door closing somewhere, and wondered if it was one of those doors that closes automatically after half a minute. I didn't even know about that particular mechanism until a couple of years ago, I've no idea where it was used in the original game (i'm sure someone will tell me now). Anyway turns out I was correct, very sneaky.

Map32 - “The Super Secret Level”

I'm sure this is very cleverly done but I honestly can't be arsed to figure it all out. After the timed door of the last map I don't think I'm ready for a full on puzzle map by this author. I got up to number 3 anyway..

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP32 The Super Secret Level

and here we have one motherfucka of a secret level. to get all 32 secrets you must know everything about secret gathering. if you don't have OCD or a completionist complex like I do then you can leave anywhere. the difficulty is progressive, in terms of how monsters are played out, it's like one type of monster per room. a lot of unique ways for eschdoom to "hide his secrets" (very bad joke, I know). the hardest ones were #3 and #4. One's an annoying walk-over line where you have to zigzag back, and the other's another 30-seconds-before-it-closes door. that one almost always ended my go, but I was determined to find everything and managed to get by after that. good thing these secrets are numbered accordingly.

#7 was really annoying, you had to get one of the gunners to open the door and their AI is dumb.

fucking SR50 for #16.

at one point, having to shoot through a shoot-through window against cacos with a rocket launcher was not fun ESPECIALLY when my rocket hits the windowsill by some unluck. after the 30-second door opens, there's a bit of creative door-riding for #17.

#22 was the most interesting one, using barrel inertia to open the door.

I must say the reward at the end would be really really grand for those playing continuous, but I'm pistol-starting these so it doesn't matter. and I don't understand why the "YOU WIN" exit has you telefragging a boss brain. what's wrong with just making it a regular W1 exit?

[Sui Generis]

I replayed map15 from pistol start with a fresh mindset after my frustration at being unable to find the secret exit. Perhaps it was playing continuous that did it but I really liked it more this time. It's a good map.

Map31 - “Entryway Reloaded”
Some people have described this as a homage, I'd call it little more than a carbon copy. There's some really nice details and well-chosen monsters to up the difficulty and make it less trivial, but fundamentally this is still the same Map01. It is the secret map slot I suppose, but I think I'd probably enjoy a layout change, a la Wonderful Doom. Like many others here I didn't get the secret exit, and I'm unsure as to how I'd be expected to know to run for that area.

mouldy said:

Map32 - “The Super Secret Level”[/B]
I'm sure this is very cleverly done but I honestly can't be arsed to figure it all out. After the timed door of the last map I don't think I'm ready for a full on puzzle map by this author.

Ditto.

[SyntherAugustus]

Thanks for the warning regarding MAP32. Should prove to be an interesting video.

This levelset has a freaking hardon for secrets. I miss playing Artsy stuff. Should be finishing Valiant finally...

I'll probably be using this midi, as it's better suited for a level regarding finding 32 secrets.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4si4ei6yp8os4s5/RECESSIO.MID?dl=0

[Demon of the Well]

Map 15 -- South Central - 102% Kills / 100% Secrets
The most notable feature of this map other than the whole song and dance for the secret exit is that, for the first time in the mapset, the player is turned loose to wander about at his/her own whims for a while, with the blue/red key quests in the defense contractor HQ being completable in either order (the keys work in tandem to open the building's main entrance, allowing Doomguy to continue onwards to another transit terminal (or maybe it's the research facility disguised as a transit terminal, the textfile and what you see in-game don't quite match up here). It's not just a question of being able to pick one of two paths at a fork, though--on the contrary, while the red key itself is fairly remote, for the most part the two key-legs bleed into and out of one another freely by dint of a level of interconnectedness in the layout that is quite unprecedented in D2Reload prior to this point. It's not the most earth-shatteringly complex or intricate layout ever, by any means, but it works pretty well, and feels quite refreshing after 13 levels of unfaltering linearity (plus one little arena level, of course).

As is the norm for this mapset, aesthetically it is very modest/undramatic, with yet more grey grey grey and generally purely practical architecture predominating throughout, but as per usual disciplined and sensible lighting choices prevent it from feeling lifeless or incomplete. Not a fault per se, but one thing that does strike me as very out of character for the mapset (or at least this part of the mapset) is the construct where the yellow key resides, in that I have no idea what the hell it's supposed to be. It is very deliberate in design, with its one entrance/two exits, bilateral symmetry, and texture group largely separate from anything else in the level, and given this plus D2Reload's generally representational aesthetic style it really seems like it's supposed to be something specific, but I can't for the life of me make it out, unusual since Eschdoom usually communicates his vision clearly even when working with a necessary degree of idtech1 abstractness. My best guess is it's some kind of fallout shelter or bunker. Any other ideas?

There is also a certain sense of playfulness to the action in this map that sets it apart from previous maps. D2Reload is generally not graced with a particularly high number of memorable setpiece battles or choreographed encounters, but its combat is nevertheless usually suitably engaging by dint of the author's talent for deliberate monster placement, ala the opener, which sees Doomguy run up against a pair of Barons in relatively close confines while armed with only a pistol and 50 bullets, a situation you have to use your wits and some footwork to get out of (incidentally, I don't agree that this opener should've been scrapped, I think it's a charming idea). That sort of stuff being the norm in this set--that is, short/small encounters that gain relevancy/interest from monsters being used in situations which play to their individual strengths--it's good to see Eschdoom cut loose and start using some larger swarms, like the level's pair of pinky stampedes (don't be a spoilsport, you'll have more fun if you sort of play along and pretend they're more formidable than they really are), its aerial gasbag assault on the street between the two main areas, or its unusual revenant bumrush near the dual-lock mechanism, which has a built-in/intentional 'trick' to nerf the hell out of the fight. I elected not to use this on this playthrough--more fun NOT to play along in this case, methinks--but one appreciates the idea.

I recall I didn't have too much trouble finding the secret exit in this one back when I first played--I learned from early PWADs that it's prudent to always try to use sector computers or terminal banks as though they were switches, and I learned from Hexen and things of that ilk to just backtrack and recheck everything again when all else fails. Like several of you, I think it took me longest to open the level's very first secret, which eventually contains its last secret/the secret exit as well (and also a similar nerfing-mechanism to the revenant fight mentioned above for the early Baron encounter if you find it at the outset).

Map 31 -- Entryway Reloaded - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
Right, while map 32 is hard to forget if you've ever spent any serious time with it, I admit I had sort of forgotten what map 31 of the set was. No wonder, like "Witch Space" before it it's another recreation of an IWAD map, not exactly my favorite thing in the world, and for the most part I think the gameplay additions here are less fundamentally engaging than the addition of arch-viles to classic Dead Simple setup earlier--for example, the mancubus fight in particular is trivial janitoring if you do it 'right' (e.g. you find the extra rockets in one of the additional secrets, which as a bonus also gives you a better position from which to initiate the fight), and slow and grindy if you do it 'wrong.' The super-secret exit is not difficult to reach once you know what to do, essentially just speedrun for the rocket launcher secret from the original 'Entryway' and you'll be golden, 30 seconds is a very generous window in this case. For those asking "how am I supposed to know to do this?", I have a simple answer: Eschdoom tells you you have to move fast in order to 'unlock the level's secret' in the textfile (you DID read it, didn't you? ;) ), and I guess he assumed most players know Entryway well enough that just trying to do the level fast would sooner or later result in success. An untoward assumption for an "unfair" setup? Given that this is a secret/optional map, I think not. Glad he explicitly mentions the timed secret in map 32, though...

Anyway, I know there's an audience for this kind of level, but I'm not in it. Never have been.

[Havoc Crow]

MAP16: Research Facility

Perhaps the most characteristic thing about this map is its nonlinearity. In the beginning you can wander nearly the entire base at your leisure, visiting every nook and cranny, and finding out how the areas are interconnected. It's a fresh change after the linearity of the previous maps, even if the sprawling layout gets confusing the first time you play.

Unfortunately, it's not perfect. I still felt something was missing. Perhaps it was the fact that the nonlinearity was incomplete--at the end of the day, you still have to collect first one specific key, then the second, then the third. The beginning of the level felt a little disappointing; you run around the entire base and kill monsters, but you feel like someone's telling you "all of it is pointless, you won't actually do anything substantial until you go into this one specific place and find the first key." Also, in my case, I killed all the monsters I could find before picking up the first key... so after I got the second key I was left running around an empty map. The perils of freedom.

I think it'd be better if you could get the three keys in any order (the author wouldn't even have to move them, just remove the colored bars/door blocking access to the keys) and you'd need all three to access the exit room.

On the other hand, the gameplay beyond the blue key door really picks up. It feels really dramatic to head into this new place and raise the bridge, and there's an exciting revenant horde and a zombie football team with an arch-vile coach to keep things fun. And there's still a revenant ambush waiting outside, with the long curved side hallways perfect for blasting them with rockets. The final duel with a Cyberdemon was sufficiently exciting without being frustratingly hard (sorry, but I have no idea how to fight them in close quarters.) The secret with the supercharge and the BFG, however, felt superfluous, especially since it was after the cybie.

[yakfak]

Super secret exits probably shouldn't be immediately obvious to the player, even if that player humps walls and looks at the map =P I think it's a misconception to expect that you can reveal everything about a level in one visit and I hope that a map's transparency doesn't determine whether it is good or bad.

What I'm trying to say is that Map 32 is one of my favourites in the wad :P

[cannonball]

Map16 - “Research Facility”
Non-linearity doesn't really work here to be honest, in my case I killed most of the opposition before finding the blue key. Apart from the yellow key section, the action felt a little underwhelming to be honest. The cyber at the end was a little pointless, but killed me a couple of times as I tried to nab the BFG secret.

[vdgg]

Getsu Fune said:

MAP32 The Super Secret Level[/b]
f****** SR50 for #16.

WHAT?

Spoiler

Rocket jump

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP16: Research Facility

I enjoyed this level, and feel as though it hangs together better than most of the city levels so far. By setting the whole level within a single location - the titular research facility - rather than sending the player on an epic journey through several distinctive environments, the map can incorporate a degree of non-linearity not really evident in any of this WAD's previous levels. Honestly I liked the fact that you can explore and secure the vast majority of the map before getting down to the task of key-hunting, but equally well I can see things playing out in such a way that (at least with the blue and yellow keys) you have them in hand already by the time you come to the point(s) where you need them.

I found the overall feel and atmosphere to be rather Deimos-like, especially the large, half-circle passage and attached areas; there's just something about the persistent gloom and texture choice throughout much of the level that's very slightly off but not yet blatantly hellish. The high point of the action, for me, was the succession of encounters between the blue-switched doors and yellow key; I think the arch-vile works really well in concert with the vast horde of different types of zombies, who present a threat through their sheer numbers but aren't individually tough enough to make their repeated resurrections a source of frustration.

The series of narrow passages and lifts leading up to the yellow key didn't really work for me; other levels in this WAD have done air vents or other 'backstage' areas rather well but this didn't quite capture that same feel. The way it's set up, the player gets pointed at the computer map secret in a way that's almost impossible to miss.

[NuMetalManiak]

Rocket jump

I didn't think of that. my quota's always been avoiding as much damage as humanely possible. I seriously suck at this.

for the record I never got E3M6's secret exit until I learned straferunning.

MAP16 Research Facility

another techbase, this one has a few confusing bits though given the nonlinearity. I still don't have a whole lot to note, as it's pretty generic, but still fun in it's own way. two mancubi replace the cyber on HNTR and lower by the way.

[yakfak]

I've noticed the difficulty curve certain isn't a smooth ascent in this level set... MAP 08 is a pain to play from UV pistol start, no matter how you've prepared, while MAP 09 is a little too easy to beat once you understand the route. That's a good thing in my book - I wouldn't want the stress level to keep building, haha

[scifista42]

Map32 - “The Super Secret Level”

Very good concept, but it could have been executed better, by which I mean getting rid of all sadistic, unclear one-time bullshit that only encouraged save/load abuse, and shrinking size / interconnecting the map to reduce the painfully tedious backtracking, specially when you didn't yet know where the next secret was. Personally, I'd make the map more compact and always give the player a fair chance to succeed, regardless on what he ever does. That would keep the idea while removing most of its frustrating aspect.

When playing this map in the past, I've never been able to get past secret #3. Only thanks to reading Getsu Fune's post, I've been able to deal with #4 and consequently #7 too. I've been able to continue without cheating up to #27 (!), but then I gave up and used various cheats to complete the map. I couldn't find #28 legitimately, the search was taking too much time and seemed hopeless, because I had no hints where to look on the entire enormously long path, and I've assumed that a long backtracking and re-exploring everything would possibly be the intended way to continue - which I couldn't withstand anymore.

Visuals were thoroughly nice and well varied, plausible as always, not lazily done like some puzzle maps are. Gameplay was OK, with several above-average good moments. There was a certain Hell Knight ambush in a crate room, which wasn't particularly challenging after I decided to retreat, but it was an interesting way to draw me back from reaching the lift on the top, which I thought was my goal (wrongly). It followed by a Baron ambush in a cramped computer room, forcing me to outmaneuver them - not too hard, but I liked the moment. Finally, the Pain Elemental factory room worked surprisingly well for such a simple setup, it really forced me to take advantage of anti-PE strategies while being quick, as I was also running out of ammo at that time.

To sum up: Interesting idea, but the execution was flawed in several ways that I didn't like. On the other hand, I could endure the map for a long time, it wasn't terrible, even if rather uncomfortable. I don't want to play any more maps like this one, though, unless they were improved in the ways I've suggested.

P.S. I liked this view in particular.

[Capellan]

map17
For the first time we get a decent amount of ‘city’ in our city map, with an extended period of moving through the streets from building to building. In fact there are two such areas, as we earlier delve into a car park. It’s all well executed and realised, and the cityscape background looks pretty great. It was fun just to play around it in DB2 and see how it was all put together.

Of course it wouldn’t be a D2RELOAD map without a tech base section (presumably when we get to hell these will finally end?), which is also as slickly put together as we’ve come to expect.

The excessive linearity of the early levels is once again avoided, with a much more freeform approach to progression. Sure, you’re to some extent gated by the three keys, and must ultimately collect them in a specified order, but other than that you’re free to roam, with a couple of options available at all times.

Looking back at the stringy early levels with their plain, boxy rooms connected like beads, it’s hard to credit that they’re the work of the same author.

Also, 100% secrets. What is this madness?