The DWmegawad Club plays: Doom 2 Reloaded

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP17 Downtown

well, Imma say that this is a better Downtown than the IWAD one. it's nothing too bad. we've got out generic techbase at the beginning, but it gets down to the more realistic earth structures, including tunnels that I had to scrounge for the blue key (the trap where the key was was very pathetic though). when I really got outside is when things started to get hairy, because hitscanners are in the mix on the ground floor while other enemies take the liberty of sniping me. of course I would clean up all the misfits that hang around. knowing what I know about this level, I found an invulnerability in the southwest that helps in tangling with a cyberdemon in the southeast. as for the rest of the map, there's not much else to note, apart from the laziness of the red key being in a tiny closet, opened only by the yellow key. still, it's a nice city map.

[VGA]

I've gotten to MAP22, goddamnit that Ep4 style is great :-D

EDIT: That MAP31 music was awesome and the map looked great but FUCK that timed secret exit.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP32: Super Secret Level
100% kills, 32/32 secrets

Spoilers below.

I agree with Scifista that I like the concept, but the execution could be much better. I tried this map about a week ago and got as far as #15 before taking a break - probably didn't need to, though, since most of the difficult/bullshit secrets are at the start. #4 and #7 are the only one-time ones (a 30-second door and a "get the monster to open the door from the other side" secret, respectively), and #16 can prove difficult as well (rocket jump). But it gets pretty easy after that, with almost everything just being a push-wall or hidden switch. I also don't like that the level is mostly, but not fully, linear - after being linear for most of the level, it can suddenly be shocking to skip an optional secret and wonder if you broke the level or not. Add in the backtracking, and, yeah it can be a pain to even figure out where some of the later secrets are. Decent concept though.

My list of how to solve each secret, for anyone getting stuck:

Spoiler

D2 RELOADED MAP 32 SECRETS:

#1: Turn around and walk that way.

#2: One of the elevators has an opening in the side.

#3: In the "42" maze, go down the 2, which has a line that opens a secret door in the 4.

#4: Right inside the #3 secret, a door closes at 30 seconds.

#5: Open the SUPPORT2 wall to the left as you enter #4.

#6: When you get to the large drop into the acid, instead of falling all the way down, carefully fall onto a small ledge below the opening.

#7: In the box area, get one of the chaingunners to open the silver door for you from the inside.

#8: Return to the drop into the acid, drop down and to the left of the exit is the secret.

#9: Continue into the acid, grabbing the blue key, then through the blue bars and into the storage area. At the top of the lift, turn right and look for a switch, revealing the secret and a blue armor vest.

#10: There's a broken link in the guardrail, climb across the boxes and drop into a vent shaft.

#11: After climbing the staircase around the large light column, turn around and shoot the small red switch, which opens up the secret with a yellow key inside.

#12: In the slime area, go through the blue doors then head northeast (follow the bodies). One of the slimefalls is fake and has blue bars behind it.

#13: Enter the teleporter, then immediately go backwards, then re-enter the teleporter, which will take you to secret #13.

#14: Immediately after being teleported to #13, turn around and hit the switch. Now go through the vent shaft back to the long acid drop, which now has an L-shaped elevator in it. Drop the elevator, and when riding it up, there is now an opening half-way up.

#15: Jump across the long acid drop and back up the stairs (to #5). Go back to the left end of #4 - the real exit has been closed off, and the TIXE will take you to the next area.

#16: After finding the RL in the maze, go to the small half-lift, get on it, and rocket-jump yourself backwards across the gap.

#17: After fighting the cacodemons, hit the switch in the rocket ammo room, which will lower a door. Ride the door up into a vent on the side.

#18: Inside the yellow door, there's a switch that raises the bridge. On the backside is another switch which opens this secret.

#19: Jump into the slime and follow it to get to this secret (rocket ammo).

#20: After the yellow door and going across the bridge, one of the computers is different from the others, open it.

#21: One corner of the #20 secret is a hidden door (it shows on the minimap).

#22: Shoot the barrels to open the locked door.

#23: One of the boxes has an edge which lowers to reveal some rocket ammo, ride up the door then run across the boxes into a teleporter.

#24: While riding the large lift down after the arachnatrons, there's a demon face switch visible to the right, shoot it.

#25: Inside the southwest Pain Elemental elevator is a hidden vent.

#26: Inside the room with the chair and fireplace, one of the torches is green instead of red, press it.

#27: On the backside of the BFG cage are a couple of switches which raise platforms so you can get to where the revenants are.

#28: Inside the mancubus area, the gates on the south sewer don't go all the way across - make your way through them and into a secret hallway.

#29: Use the Arch-Vile in the area with the banners to jump up to his ledge. Open the demon head door on the right.

#30: After #29, go back and drop down to the megasphere.

#31: After hitting the switch inside #29, return back through the teleporters to the techbase section. Straight across the hallway is a new teleporter. Hit the switch and then go through the door. Return back upstairs, past the spiderminds is a vent shaft.

#32: After hitting the switch inside #31, go all the way back to the start and drop down. There's now a door open to the left of the "EPIC FAIL" exit. If you kill the Keens in the room before, #32 opens in the corner.

[mouldy]

Map16 - “Research Facility”

This is very nicely lit this map. Has a very interesting layout too, although those dual lifts are a bit too slow. Some nice skirmishes as well, not too tough but fun all the same. I only found 1 secret, which I guess is why I was in no fit state to fight a cyber at the end. So I kited him out and ran past him to the exit. Kind of weird to see a cyber at the end of that map, there wasn't any build up to it or arena style space to fight him in. I guess if you were forced to fight him it might be more interesting, but given the choice I'll just leave him behind thanks. Good map.

[Sui Generis]

Map16 - “Research Facility”
A pretty well-worked techbase. So it's been remarked that this map is non-linear, and yes it is in that you can clear out the most of the
monsters from the blue and red key areas, it's still pretty linear in the order you need to actually collect them - blue, yellow, then red. I think clearing out these areas in turn before moving on to the next seems to make more sense as it avoids the need to return to areas to collect keys. In other words, I see this as a non-linear map that has grown out of a linear one and still displays that in it's DNA. As others commented there isn't very much city in this map. And really to say that this is the city episode, Eschdoom is using City areas like Romero used exteriors in E1, that is to say, more to provide nice vistas and to transition between techbase elements, rather than as a play area in it's own right. The gameplay is pretty good, with the archie/hitscanner trap after the yellow key being the most memorable encounter. The little manc/hellknight arena after the blue key trap door makes for a nice opportunity to foment infighting (if playing slowly like I tend to). I might agree that the red key area is a bit less interesting, but there's still plenty of hitscanners to silence which I enjoy. The end cyb fight in the curving corridor is a bit more dangerous than normal due to the increased chance of suffering splash damage against the curved walls.

One final thought, the number and nature of the secrets really dropped down to simple again for me. I was caught out by the initial secret near the start on map 15, I didn't find the 30 second door in Map 31 unaided (because I didn't know the rocket launcher secret was the one to rush to), and map32... well I haven't finished and have gotten repeatedly stuck. Yet on this map I've quite happily found all 4 secrets without issue. I can only assume Eschdoom felt like throwing a bone to people like me after the last few maps.

[SyntherAugustus]

Thanks for the guide Magnusblitz. That will be really helpful for the video session since I can have your guide on my other screen as I record. :P

[vdgg]

I think it is worth mentioning that one area from MAP16 is a copy of one area from Plutonia MAP25...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/wojtunio/d2r_zpsbmjpg3zk.jpg

[Super Mighty G]

vdgg said:

I think it is worth mentioning that one area from MAP16 is a copy of one area from Plutonia MAP25...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v345/wojtunio/d2r_zpsbmjpg3zk.jpg

That layout is pretty general, it could just be a coincidence.

[AD_79]

U.O.D. said:

That layout is pretty general, it could just be a coincidence.

I think it's a bit too similar to simply be a coincidence.

[Capellan]

I'd call it an homage rather than a copy - same basic encounter idea, but quite different in the details of the layout and it looks like the monster selection/placement is a bit different, too.

[Magnusblitz]

BlackFish said:

Thanks for the guide Magnusblitz. That will be really helpful for the video session since I can have your guide on my other screen as I record. :P

It's not a total step-by-step guide, there's a lot of switches to hit or doors, but those should be pretty obvious for the most part.

[Pirx]

mouldy said:

Map16 - “Research Facility”

This is very nicely lit this map. Has a very interesting layout too, although those dual lifts are a bit too slow. Some nice skirmishes as well, not too tough but fun all the same. I only found 1 secret, which I guess is why I was in no fit state to fight a cyber at the end. So I kited him out and ran past him to the exit. Kind of weird to see a cyber at the end of that map, there wasn't any build up to it or arena style space to fight him in. I guess if you were forced to fight him it might be more interesting, but given the choice I'll just leave him behind thanks. Good map.

there'S a BFG to the right in the final room.


ok, on the maps so far:

map 13

interesting visual style, a sewer with rusty door frames, which i liked far more than the clean techbases before (and the white tiles i complained about). problem is, corridors with frames results in the player bumping into them. i was lucky and found the secret with the ssg on the first try. and the berserk, which i used predominantly, until the central area fight. i got stuck a bit after finding the blue key because i missed the switch for raising them platform to the red (iirc) key - there were two switches alongside the blue door and i pressed only one. almost killed the archvile before seeing the megasphere and realizing he was there with a purpose. you get that and a megasphere, which makes the last line of resistance a footnote.


map 14

nice continuation, you exit where you left, exit from your tunnel into a cityscape and enter a subway station where it's easy to start an infight. upon picking up the ssg, an archvile and several revs appear from the other end of the corridor, but can be held at bay by retreating into the nearby room where there are just a few zombies, and shot with a bit of door kung fu. the hardest part was keeping my friend the imp alive. and guessed his role correctly after seeing a red door and the red key inside, then saw a video link here which confirmed this... but anyway i had to restart the map 4 times because and simply wanted that secret and the poor guy was killed every time during the archvile fight, probably by the revs or the manc.


map 15

a good start, tricked those barons and pinkies to get the berserk and punch them. a series of pseudo realistic brick and concrete buildings follows. a trap at the blue (iirc) key with some revs, and then i had killed everything in sight and kept patrolling empty corridors, while imps threw fireballs in my direction from the other side of the street. granted, i played the map being very tired, but i didn't feel like hunting for more secrets. i'll watch blackfish's playthrough and redo the map perhaps.

(btw, the antialiasing he uses makes the enemies look like painted figures, or cel shaded, interesting look)


map 31

entryway, beefed up with some mancs and an archvile in the exit? the kind of lazy tribute like map07.


map 32

first try: i'm at the starting point. i choose to take the elevator up, to avoid a situation like in map06 where i'm shot at from above. this gets me to the exit. ok, i get it: playing map32 is entirely optional, even after you've entered it.

second try: i jump down and find the first solution better. repetitive corridors and mazes of shiny steel and concrete, simply not my thing. pictures from movies on the walls here and there. eschdoom certainly can make secrets. thanks magnusblitz for the guide... impressive! i did not finish. this sequence 15-31-32 didn't entertain me, unfortunately.


map 16

another techbase with mostly white and silver walls, although there's a rusty metal basement right after the start with some manc and knight where you find the ssg and some other goodies (armor and berserk). the long, semi-circular hallway that follows is a distinctive feature, it leads to a fight with some revs and an archvile, fortunately the vile comes with a mob of zombies, not with said revenants, and can be rocketed to death quickly. pretty large and intricate map, there's also a hidden plasma gun available. fun fight, just the part with the elevators slows it down. finally you run into a cyb in a room so small that the only choices are 1) run past him into the exit and 2) get the secret bfg and soulsphere to the right if you feel like fighting him.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 32 -- The Super Secret Level - 95% Kills / 100% Secrets
What can I say about this that hasn't already been said? It's perhaps the most unique high-concept map in a WAD with several of them, and for that reason it's bound to be more frustrating than fun for some players, although if you found your way here in the first place without consulting The Internet or a map editor I suppose the chances are fairly good that you're the type of player who might be into this sort of thing. The idea is of course to locate all 32 secrets, although a handful of them are optional to progression, although the ones that are optional tend to be indispensable if you intend to kill all of the map's monsters in a straight fight (particularly #23, the Bruce Lee ammo cache, and #26, which contains the BFG). Eschdoom puts a spin on the proceedings by repeatedly offering players the chance to leave the level before fully unraveling its secrets (perhaps more as a courtesy to continuous players than anything?), and in so doing he ensured that I would never leave the level until I'd solved everything, because giving up and leaving, to me, always felt like a far more ignominious defeat than death or eternal quagmire could ever be. :D

Given that the WAD's textfile explicitly mentions the existence of the early timed door (incidentally, the trick the textfile mentions for handling it in an alternate way is simpler than you might think: just fire a shot as soon as you enter the blue tunnels and then make a beeline for the entrance to secret #3, and allow one of the zombies you awoke with the shot to trigger the walkover line actuating it, saving you several seconds in trying to reach the door to #4 before it closes), I seem to recall that the biggest stumbling block for me back when I first played was the first big backtrack you have to do (#8 or #9, somewhere around there), because it requires you to leap suitless into a slime area you'd passed through earlier, which seemed counterintuitive enough to make me not seriously consider it until I got desperate. Most of the stuff between there and #29 didn't hold me up too much, although I remember spending longer on #23 than I should have (wall-humped everywhere BUT the one spot which gets the ball rolling), and I inevitably blew my one shot at #29 the first time I came to it, I've always been terrible about spotting vile-jumps. Incidentally, of all the tricks that map throws at you, #29 is the only one I feel any degree of resentment for, mostly because having to jump towards the guy who bounces you feels really counterintuitive (the vast majority of designed vile-jumps in PWADs past and present have you propelled away from the caster), and also because that's really late in the map to put a one-shot thing, in contrast to #4 which only costs you increments of 30 seconds of your time until you get it (and #7, though one-shot, is pretty hard to screw up).

All else being equal, it is a most charming 'challenge map' of a very different stripe than most folks who picked up the game in the last 10 years at least are liable to be accustomed to, hearkening back to the days of Flynn, Newham, Evans and others (although it is arguably less obtuse than many of their most cunning designs, since in its case it is made explicitly clear that searching for weird, sometimes meta-gamey secrets is the whole point of the level). It's also interesting in that it is something like a stylized montage of the secrets in the WAD's other 31 maps (including some which appear in maps which play later than slot 32 does on a traditional run), and in that respect it's one of the more clever takes on the 'secret map as easter egg' trope in recent memory.

The biggest downside, ironically, is that the level occasionally takes a break from sleuthing to offer up a pretense of having some 'normal' Doom gameplay, and the fights against monsters are often the least interesting parts of the map, largely due to a somewhat arbitrary design decision which sees each monster type appear just once and only in a group of its own kind (although arch-viles actually appear twice if you make it all the way to the very end, the revenants arguably appear in 2-3 successive encounters, and pedants might balk at the decision to treat demons and specters as one creature), generally in very simplistic situations. To me, these bits of combat actually felt more like interruptions than breaks/breathers, although I suppose your mileage may vary.

[Havoc Crow]

MAP17: Downtown

Another tough map, this one took me over an hour. Compared to MAP15 and MAP16 this is a bit disappointing. The first part (before the city streets) is a tad dull--there are no real memorable encounters. Things get a bit more exciting when you step onto the streets and find yourself attacked from all sides, with danger coming mainly from the darn arachnotrons. First time stepping onto the streets was an atmospheric moment, up until you realize that your best bet for survival is probably to hole yourself up in the office building and shoot the baddies from there.

The twin cyberdemons suddenly revealed inside the warehouse were a cute idea. Unfortunately, the way the building was arranged, they'd usually get stuck and remain in their warehouse, assuming the player ran away as soon as they popped up. That robbed the map of a potential memorable moment with two cyberdemons hunting you around town. The hell knight trap at the red-keyed building's top floor was one hell of a bastard trap, almost certain to kill or heavily hurt you the first time. The ending was a bit of an anticlimax, you get into the big building expecting a final ambush and then... exit line.

Overall I was a bit disappointed with this map. The third and fourth time I played, I didn't even bother to kill everything, I just wanted to finish the map quickly, so I guess it's not near as fun as MAP15; it's the kind of a map you'd rather not play again soon.

Oh, and there's a light amplification visor again. As previously, it's useless and ruins the map's visuals.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP17: Downtown

A more city-like city map than most we've seen so far in this WAD, and a better interpretation of the theme of 'Downtown' than the IWAD's MAP13. I found a lot to like about this level. The map is largely divided into two halves by the blue key door, which permits egress from the research facility into the city itself. There's plenty of solid combat to be found on the city streets though I agree with JudgeDeadd that the temptation is strong to just hole up in the research facility and gun everything down from there, as the massive pile of pinkie demon corpses I left in the lobby will attest. The revenants roaming the perimeter wall of the building opposite the lobby felt more annoying than dangerous, however. Looking at the map now in DoomBuilder, I can see how a combination of deaf monsters and block sound linedefs are used to stagger the activation of different groups of monsters in order to keep things interesting as the player moves through the streets; the cacodemons especially seem like they'd be free to jump on the player from just about any angle once they wake up, and they're initially far enough away that they might be able to approach quite stealthily if, for example, the player is busy tangling with the cyberdemon.

Atmosphere is generally very strong, with a lot of work put into suggesting the various ways in which the city sprawls beyond the immediate play area; it's self-contained but doesn't feel that way, although the artificiality of certain barriers to exploration does stand out.

[cannonball]

Map17 - “Downtown”
The indoor segment of this map was very easy to handle and frankly wasn't particularly interesting.
The city area proved a little more interesting but suffered from annoying snipers and monsters which could easily get trapped in the narrower areas (I got the two cyber stuck in the passageway which led to the yellow key door).
In the end the progression again feels realist but the gameplay here wasn't great to be honest.
The next map certainly is interesting though.

I was thinking the same thing about map16 actually, the mechanism of the room works exactly the same too. That said it isn't the only homage which can be seen, looking ahead there is a containment area reference somewhere in map21 for example.

[Magnusblitz]

Demon of the Well said:

Given that the WAD's textfile explicitly mentions the existence of the early timed door (incidentally, the trick the textfile mentions for handling it in an alternate way is simpler than you might think: just fire a shot as soon as you enter the blue tunnels and then make a beeline for the entrance to secret #3, and allow one of the zombies you awoke with the shot to trigger the walkover line actuating it, saving you several seconds in trying to reach the door to #4 before it closes)

I don't read the textfiles, but guh, I feel sorta stupid now. Every single time I've run towards the zombie near the #4 entrance, killed it, then run back to the one by the #3 trigger, killed it, then run back to #4 - and barely made it (literally the door falling on my head then bouncing back up when I was underneath it closing). Didn't think about the monsters being able to trigger walk-over lines.

I definitely agree regarding the combat, though, just seemed like a chore to deal with in-between trying to find secrets.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP16: Research Facility
100% kills, 4/4 secrets

It's nice to see some non-linearity in design after the first half of the level set, gives me hope for some more improvements. There's some "reality" detail here and there but it feels more like a typical Doom techbase in most of the design. Some good skirmishes here and there, too, seems like the difficulty is finally kicking up a notch. My favorite is probably the zombie horde with the AV behind it, gives a bit of hard choice between SSG (better for the AV) and the chaingun (better for the zombies). I do agree with JudgeDeadd that the mechanism here (only holding the keys behind bars, rather than whole areas) means that there's still linearity underlying it, and I got forced to pick up all the keys at the end after everything was dead, which was a bit lame. Also I kept finding the secrets after they were actually useful... hooray, a shiny BFG after killing the Cyber, and immediately lost to the pistol-start gods.

[Capellan]

map18
“It’s a stealth game” is an instant unsell for me, so you can probably guess that I wasn’t much of a fan of this. It seems like a pretty good implementation of the stealth genre with the Doom engine, but that doesn’t really help when you don’t like the genre to begin with.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP18 Warehouse Siege

do you like crates AND concept maps? well this has both. like MAP09, there is a very informative directive on what to do, and the repercussions for fucking it up are rather severe. the "sentinels" being a motherload of archies which spawn in when you make even the slightest sound. clever, but if that ain't enough, in order to remove this threat without inevitable destruction, it involves trekking through practically the entire level getting both blue and yellow keys, going back to the beginning of the warehouse, and deactivating the terminal, all without firing a single shot.

easier said than done of course, as the stray monsters around can be a problem. for the first few moments, it isn't difficult, just make sure ya don't round a wrong corner or get cornered. the switches in the next area close the doors behind you. it gets tougher from there, with a few bigwig enemies abound in a few places. a few interesting ways to "get rid" of monsters, like lowering a floor via switch to remove one particular monster, or trapping a horde of demons behind a garage door so you don't have to worry about them.

nevertheless, once the "security field" becomes deactivated, it's either run for the red door or a simple clean-up job of the enemies remaining. nothing too difficult, although I do remember a cyberdemon appears in the area on a higher difficulty. actually hunting down the stragglers is harder than killing them. I had to remember where each one was. I was also hunting for secrets while doing so, and there's more crate parkour where that came from. a controversial map for sure. I'm personally not a fan of it.

[mouldy]

Map17 - “Downtown”

This is a great map for running around like a madman, loads of space and places to go. I just legged it past most of the enemies and ended up outside with a couple of cybers and all kinds of other shit flying about. At that point I had to slow down a bit and try and figure out what I was actually meant to be doing here. Once I scraped together enough weaponry to wipe out the cybers I had a more leisurely explore. There's a fair bit going on in this map, and some great little secrets to find. Excellent fun.

[purist]

16

This had a well connected layout and some decent action after the blue key. I was a little disappointed to find myself back in a grey techbase again but this is better than most if not all of the E1 levels.

17

Once you get outside there is a big changeup in gameplay here, which I welcomed even if didn't work out freewheeling and sandboxy as it might first appear due to Chaingunner snipers on the roof forcing you into cover.

18

Cool gimmick map, which is communicated much clearer than the earlier crusher gimmick map. I always appreciate an attempt at high concept, even if it doesn't quite work out. This one could have done with wider doors but otherwise it worked pretty well and the fact that you could wreak revenge when the security shield goes up is sweet.

[Suitepee]

http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee/c/6557720 = part 1 of my playthrough, covering maps 01-14. (UV, pistol starts)

Andy Stewart likes his Archviles, but I do not like where he places them at times.

Maps 08 and 09 were particularly horrendous, especially map 09's "lets place 5 Archviles spread apart in the runup to a linear and long corridor, whilst having Barons and stuff in the way, and hopefully the player will RNG/savescum their way to 5 dead Archviles!" It's one of the worst spots I've ever seen in Doom, and quite frankly I'd be curious as to how a speedrunner would approach that area.

At times it seems that Andy Stewart forgot this was meant to be "fun", including some boring/asshole Baron placement among other things. There has been a consistently good visual/texture quality to the maps throughout so far though, it's just that the gameplay hasn't really been up to snuff with the impressive texture work. There have been a few alright maps (map 14 the best I've played so far) but nothing too impressive thus far.

One person said in my livestream chat it reminded them of Vile Flesh. I found Vile Flesh to be very average with annoying parts scattered throughout, that barely left much of an impression long afterwards. Unless there's some impressive things to come, I feel so far that Doom 2 Reloaded will end up being the same way....

P.S. I do quite like the visual references in the secrets! And that "Matrix" area.

EDIT: Map 09 criticism dropped, turns out I didn't realise it was a race towards a switch to "subvert" a teleport trap.

[SyntherAugustus]

Level 31

As others have said, you need to haul ass to make the rocket launcher secret appear for the super secret level exit or you'll miss the door closing. I found it fun how you can snipe the mancubi from up top rather than having to ground battle them.

[yakfak]

Suitepee said:

...especially map 09's "lets place 5 Archviles spread apart in the runup to a linear and long corridor, whilst having Barons and stuff in the way, and hopefully the player will RNG/savescum their way to 5 dead Archviles!" It's one of the worst spots I've ever seen in Doom, and quite frankly I'd be curious as to how a speedrunner would approach that area.

a speedrunner activates the crusher three or four minutes into the level and BFGs all the survivors :D that level had a gimmick you obviously missed, Suitepee!

[Demon of the Well]

Heh, I just knew you wouldn't play map 09 'as intended', John. Suffice to say that if you play along with eschdoom's concept for that map, you never face anything like the situation you described. Funny you should mention speedrunning, as that is exactly what the map calls for....

Map 16 -- Research Facility - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
There's a bit more to this map than initially meets the eye, interesting that it quickly establishes a subtly foreboding atmosphere but takes its time to actually make its play on your life. I'm not sure I'd go quite so far as TheOrganGrinder in likening the map's atmosphere to that of a classic Deimos-style setting--after so many levels of grey cement and brushed metal and industrial composite it's true that the stucco in a few parts of this facility does look a mite eccentric, but that's not quite on the same level of surreal as seeing rancid flesh and creeping vines oozing out of the seams of a cleancut military garrison or a strange long poison canal lined with dozens of Doréan gargoyles gradually drowning a shiny computer annex--but I think he's quite right in saying that the place seems subtly brooding and singularly unwelcoming, all the same. Between the fairly spacious yet unfeeling corridors, shadowy, tall-ceiled chambers, and sharp directional lighting (with clinical fluorescents being the order of the day), the environment seems oddly cold (literally and othewise), and pregnant with macabre expectancy. The music track in the newer D2RMUS also fits rather well for a change in this case, underscores the mood nicely.

There's a one-on-one cyberdemon confrontation at the end of this level, but the real encounter it spends some time building up to is the nested series of ambushes surrounding the yellow security card, which unleashes hell in a way heretofore unseen in the mapset. It's not so much that there are a ton of enemies (although I do believe it is the largest group active up to this point, probably slightly edging out the first pinky stampede from map 15 in terms of total bodycount) per se; again, the encounter works as a result of eschdoom's thoughtful monster placement, and in this case, his willingness to plan and account for the different ways in which different players might approach the encounter. Tackling the fight as directly as possible--e.g. standing your ground and fighting through from the point where the first part of the ambush is triggered--is quickest but also riskiest, since you'll only have a small space to work from. Thinking fast, you can also jump into the nukage canal and circle around to attack from behind, which spares you the lack of footroom but also throws a lot of extra incidental opposition your way, and gives the arch-vile a very good chance to position himself behind a veritable wall of undead flesh. Interesting that the non-linearity in the layout not only centers around this central area, but also impacts the marquee encounter in so many potential ways, beyond simply determining what ammo/weapons you have when it kicks off.

This is by far the best part of the map, to the point where some of the other stuff seems hardly memorable, but I don't think that's really a fault in this case--the yellow key encounter carries so much psychological weight in part because it is presaged by some light/straightforward incidental fare to tide you over while the map is still building mood. The cyberdemon encounter at the end is no major event, but I definitely appreciate that his appearance is somewhat unexpected (though not in the 'jumpscare' sense, mind you) and that the fight against him doesn't take place in an arena, rather it likely plays out in the large curving metal hallway from earlier. In fact, it's not hard to ignore him entirely if you like, although the 'built-in' tactic appears to be to lead him away from the exit room a ways, then get the BFG out of the final secret in there, and then use it to vaporize him before skipping off to the next stage.

Good example of a map that hangs its hat on one particular encounter, and comes out the better for it.

[Magnusblitz]

Demon of the Well said:

Heh, I just knew you wouldn't play map 09 'as intended', John. Suffice to say that if you play along with eschdoom's concept for that map, you never face anything like the situation you described. Funny you should mention speedrunning, as that is exactly what the map calls for....

This actually raises what I think is the worst part of the design of that map, though, which is that it's quite possible to 'fail' the intended design without realizing it because it still seems possible to beat (especially if playing continous). A better map design would've found some way to completely populate the map so much that it was clearly designed to be a race. MAP18 does a better job of this, I think (both in that the text explanation at the start is clearer, and the 'fail' condition is fairly obviously unbeatable).

MAP17: Downtown
98% kills, 5/5 secrets

Finally an outdoors city map, though it's certainly a bit less expansive than it's same-titled kin in Doom 2. More realistic though, and for me the best point of 'realism' in this one is probably the metal detector. The first half of this map is a crawl through the last bit of the research station plus the parking garage, which is pretty similar to what's come before. After arriving outside, though, there's a nice bevy of enemies to contend with, including two cyberdemons you can unleash to help thin the herd for you. Unfortunately, the damn yellow keycard was in the last place I looked (hidden in a small alleyway, easily overlooked) so, like last map, I had cleared almost everything out before ending it. Still, decent map in the end.

[scifista42]

Map16 - “Research Facility”

Great map. This is exactly what I associate with good fun D2Reload gameplay. Exploring a base (actually non-linear!) while admiring its architecture and semi-realistic art style, and facing appropriately placed enemies to get a bit of challenge and a bit of casual fun at the same time. The map was indeed exploratory, nicely unified, but providing more than enough variety as well. I liked sights like this and this and many more, they combine simplicity with complexity just right to look beautiful to me. Search for secrets wasn't difficult, but it was very entertaining anyway. I forgive slow lifts, they weren't that terrible at all. As I've killed all monsters already some time before opening the red door, I felt just enough motivation to fight the Cyberdemon instead of skipping him, and enjoyed the fight. Overally, I liked this map a lot.

[mouldy]

Map18 - “Warehouse Siege”

I was prepared to hate this map, but it actually realised its concept quite well I thought. I often find myself running through unknown maps without firing a shot just to see how far I can get, but if i'm not going to be given the choice then there are a few things the map has to give me in return, like space to get around stuff and an eventual safe spot. It can be a bit of a maze, but not too much, and the less dead ends the better. There is an impressive amount of map here considering the player is asked to run through most of it in a blind panic (or maybe thats just how I played it). Some minor puzzles along the way, I liked the bit where you can trap the demons. There was another bit with an archvile where you could lower the floor, i'm not sure if that was intended as a way to trap the vile, but if so it didn't really work for me. You can lure him away anyhow. There was a problem I had where one of the bridges I raised had a mancubus sitting on it, with no way to get past. Guess that was unlucky, though there might be ways to stop that happening. The cyber fight on the bridge was awkward as hell, but I had some fun going back through the map killing everything.

[Suitepee]

yakfak said:

a speedrunner activates the crusher three or four minutes into the level and BFGs all the survivors :D that level had a gimmick you obviously missed, Suitepee!

I might have missed the crusher (until the end), but I was playing from pistol starts (as was recommended in the text file) and I only had rockets to deal with the narrow corridor of 5 Archviles + company after the lift. Unless there was a BFG secret I missed, I'd still be curious as to how an UV-Max IL speedrunner (of which PAR times for said UV-Maxes are mentioned in the text file) would handle the situation I described.

I wasn't referring to the crusher on one side of the bridge DotW, I was referring to the narrow corridor on the other side where you go up a lift and there's a Pain Elemental in your face, followed by 5 Archviles and company past it. Unless there's a gimmick or other process that doesn't have the 5 Archviles up there, I'm not sure I missed anything there. That encounter just plain sucked.

Anyways, I hope to be livestreaming the second part of my playthrough soon enough.