The DWmegawad Club plays: Doom 2 Reloaded

[Havoc Crow]

MAP23: Elysian Plain

Once again, this map will be a breeze for continuous players, but might be a lot harder for pistol-starters. It's a nice, cozy, little structure, a labirynth of crypts and graveyards filled with the "virtuous" dead (if you believe the text file) who nevertheless seem to have a taste for mortal flesh.

The blue key puzzle can be a little confusing; as far as I can tell, the first switch you press releases a horde of guardians into the blue key room, but you also need to press a second, easily missable switch to actually make the key accessible. The cyberdemon battle in one of the secrets was laughable thanks to the invulnerability sphere. There was also a rather easy-to-find soulsphere secret which made things even easier.

I think it was a good map, but I found it too easy with all the weaponry I had with myself from the previous levels. There were some good-looking places, such as the entrance to the spectre crypt with several thick columns casting spectacular shadows.

[Capellan]

Capellan said:

There don't appear to be any monsters in there except on UV, and I didn't see any access point openable by a monster that the player could actually reach. But I may have missed something.

I did indeed miss something, and it is another "get the monsters to open it for you" secret. You have to run past the two chaingunners in the cage so they will open the door at the back of their cell and go through there.

[cannonball]

Map23 - “Elysian Plains"
I can appreciate the use of atmosphere here, but frankly the gameplay and layout make this a rather dull and uninspiring map. The ammo shortage can be negated by using infighting, this mainly by taking advantage of the narrowness of many of the areas and hence choke points can easily develop. Found 2 of the secrets, but not the easily miss-able one which requires a monster to unlock the secret for you, the second being the use of a tombstone in the outdoor area.
Only getting started was difficult, once I grabbed the blue armour this map was a walk in the park.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP23: Elysian Plain

The atmosphere and sense-of-place in this level are top-notch, even if it embodies 'Elysian' more than 'Plain,' which goes some way towards making up for the similarities between this level and the last couple. Gameplay is heavy on corridor-crawling of a sort we've seen extensively before, and even the base layout - the lion's share of the level is a branching maze that serves as a gatehouse to the keyed door that acts as a chokepoint before the exit - bears strong similarities to MAP22. The environments the player traverses here, though, are wonderfully realized - it's not just a maze of generic Hellish corridors, there are crypts, catacombs, mausoleums, a graveyard with what I took to be a ruined church, all rendered in loving detail.

I'm enjoying these first few Hell levels quite a bit, but I feel the author is back in the same 'rut' as in the first several levels of the WAD, and I'm aching for things to open up a bit into wider spaces and more varied layouts.

[scifista42]

Map22 - “River Styx”

Good fortress design - while walking around, I felt like I've ambushed the Hell right in its homeplace. Believable, nonlinear, elaborate and stylish layout - better than the previous map had. There were cool details and nice texturing, primarily consisting of stock textures. Monster placement was done well enough to make the journey enjoyable. I've got 2/4 secrets, cheated to find out the location of a third one, and couldn't get the fourth one (Invisibility on top of a pillar). Good map.

[Magnusblitz]

scifista42 said:

couldn't get the fourth one (Invisibility on top of a pillar).

The pillar lowers when you activate the pillars to get out of the lava.

MAP24: Necromanteion
94% kills, 1/5 secrets

Wikipedia tells me that the Necromanteion was a temple of necromancy dedicated to Hades, but this map makes me suspect that Necromanteion really means "terrible boring corridor map." Then again, it also says that the site was located at the meeting point of the Acheron, Pyriphlegethon and Cocytus rivers, which mean "joyless" "burning coals" and "lament"... this map certain fits those adjectives!

In all seriousness, the temple was apparently a ziggurat with a bunch of underground corridors, so, the idea seems copied pretty well. But as a Doom map, it's a huge failure, because this map is just one long 96-wide corridor after another, turning 90-degrees here and there so it can eventually conform into filling a square. There's never any deviation from this, and no multiple pathways or a maze or anything, just literally one long un-ending corridor. Sure, sometimes it changes from red brick to green brick to white brick to lava floors to intestine walls, but it's all just window dressing for 96-wide corridors. Enemies are mostly in front of the player, though there's a couple of back ambushes (the only one that really works is the revenant one near the SSG, but it's also easier to just run away from). And the AV at the end is particularly asininely placed since it's nearly impossible to pass by monsters in the cramped corridor, so he'll be resurrecting stuff while you keep killing monsters in the front. I finally managed to beat it by killing all the zombies first, then pulling the rest of the monsters forward so the AV wasted his time resurrecting easily-killed zombies instead of high-HP barons. And then, the map (mercifully) ends.

What a terrible stinker. Still six maps left, but I really doubt any of them will beat out MAP24 for the nadir spot.

[scifista42]

Magnusblitz said:

The pillar lowers when you activate the pillars to get out of the lava.

I thought about it back then. I've pressed one of the 64-wide WOODMET lifts to see if the pillar would lower, and it didn't. Then I've tried to press the 24-wide pillar while running over it, but I've probably missed it and nothing happened, but it convinced me that the pillars can't be activated. Now I've found out that they could. Thanks for letting me know.

[SyntherAugustus]

Level 20

Obligatory SSG secret is here, but it's not as imperative as other levels. You'll find the SSG out in the open on one side of the map while having the Chaingun on the other side of the map. Funny enough, the player is most likely to get the RL first.

I did like the music choice (Eternal Doom!), but it got stretched a bit too thin being this a 20 minute level.

There's a bit where the player is surrounded and I guess the player is supposed to panic. As soon as I noticed that the situation involved a mob in an arachnotron/cyberdemon sandwich, I simply went "Yay! Free ammo!". If the player executes the infighting correctly, they can simply watch the shenanigans unfold.

[Capellan]

map24
A terrible idea from start to finish.

[SyntherAugustus]

Level 21

Do you hear birds tweeting in the music? So do I...

Anyway, this level suggests that the player has free will over which key they want to go after first. The North (Blue) will give you an SSG, the East (Red) will give you an RL, and the South (Yellow) will give you a Plasma Rifle. The reality is that they have to go clockwise. If you go for the yellow key (south) first, you will screw yourself since you'll be facing revenants and barons with just a shotgun and a plasma rifle with a handful of cells. There is a batch of 20 rockets that appear during the baron/revenant fight, but unless you picked up the RL from the East section of the map, you can't use them! Guess what, you're stuck with not being able to defeat this mob unless you get the (thankfully obvious) BFG secret and time your shots. Even if you get the early SSG secret, you're still ammo screwed. Oh and there's a backwards rocket jump secret in this as well.

Ugh.

Edit: Double video post!

Level 22

Well, okay.

The player is given a shotgun and not a clue where to find much ammo for it. The player will most likely run around like a headless chicken with no ammo until they find themselves in the rocket room only to be ambushed by barons. Eventually, the player stumbles to each keyskull and exits the map. There's three places the player can get the SSG: the secret with the bonus armor, the revenant room with the megasphere secret, or in front of the blue key door with the manc sitting on it. If the player knows the map beforehand, there is a rather efficient way of completing the map. Simply rush to the SSG secret, then to the BFG secret, collect the Rocket Launcher, and then ambush the rest of the map coming from the BFG secret.

Also failed BFG ambush on the AV is failed. Oh well. :P

It's unfortunate that the mapping decisions become less and less forgivable by the player, creating a decline of quality of the gameplay as a whole.

[mouldy]

Map23 - “Elysian Plains"

I liked this map. It has quite an aggressive pistol start, luckily for me a chaingunner decided to open a door to a secret room which helped. Nice to see some new hell textures introduced, although the paper-thin gravestones and archways look a bit weird, I'm sure something could have been done to make that a bit better. Also while a lot of the interiors were nicely gloomy with some stark lighting, others were a bit brightly lit throughout which didn't look right. I made the mistake of bothering to kill that secret cyberdemon, and then found ammo really tight for the rest of the map, literally using my last bullet to kill the final baron. Could have done with all those extra rockets. Never mind. Nice gravestone gag for spaghetti western fans.

[Capellan]

mouldy said:

Nice gravestone gag for spaghetti western fans.

Given some of the other textures the wad adds, I think it is safe to say that eschdoom was quite the Sergio Leone fan :)

[Havoc Crow]

MAP24: Necromanteion

I enjoyed Hell so far, pity this map is the first truly dissatisfying one.

The concept is simple: the entire map is literally one long, narrow corridor. There are enough scenery changes to keep it from becoming dull. It's occasionally peppered with monsters, but most encounters feel like random shooting gallery-style fights, with enemies deployed right in front of you. One more memorable fight was the mancubus one where you rush forward to face the mancubus, then as you fall back you discover that demons have been unleashed to block your way, and it's a nervous race against time as you try to slay them before the fatty fires off his shots. But this only happened to me the first time. Turns out, the mancubus isn't deaf, so you can just lure him into view and blast him from the corridor without freeing the demons. Bah.

The battle at the end against the crowd pushing its way down the corridor wasn't that interesting; I feel the author missed the opportunity for a truly devious trap - what if there were two crowds of enemies, with the second one popping up somewhere way behind, and with the player finding himself pinned? That would finally be an interesting application for the map's corridor theme.

Pickups seemed rather few and far between, and I suspect this would be a damn annoying map if I played from pistol start.

Overall, not a very fun map, and not one I'd like to replay again.

[mouldy]

Capellan said:

I did indeed miss something, and it is another "get the monsters to open it for you" secret. You have to run past the two chaingunners in the cage so they will open the door at the back of their cell and go through there.

Interestingly, that is a secret which is much more likely to be revealed for pistol starters I imagine, since the lack of ammo forces you to run past without killing them. I can't say whether that was the intention or not...

[Memfis]

Heh, IIRC when I saw Map24 for the first time I thought it was completely ridiculous, almost jokewad caliber. Nowadays I appreciate it more for its unique feel and I think it's kind of neat that a serious megawad has a WTF level like this.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP24 Necromanteion

quite possibly the most linear level ever. literally, it's a single path all the way with different kinds of obstacles, mostly monsters. and it's boring. and the secrets suck, in fact one of them can't even be reached as far as I know. I found a deathmatch start in the BFG secret but no conventional way of reaching it in SP. an exercise in orthogony, this level is a true let-down.

[mouldy]

Map24 - “Necromanteion”

After seeing some comments about map24 I had to have a go. Its funny, but despite its shortcomings as an actual map, i think the concept works quite well. The first thing I thought was well this is a bit of a dull start, hope its not going to be a maze. Then as it carried on I began to wonder if the whole map was going to be like this, but weirdly the longer it went on, the more I appreciated the psychological effect of the seemingly endless corridor, wondering if you will keep your sanity until you reach the end, hoping that you don't end up back at the start, hoping you dont run out of health and ammo - both very strictly rationed for pistol start. The visuals are basic in the extreme, but the subtle variations that kick in during the journey help to give it that sense of a descent into madness, and the music and lighting really heightens the effect.

Having said all that, I think it only really works in the context of this wad. If this was a stand-alone map it would seem pretty lacking, but in a set of 30 maps I think there is room for a strange interlude like this. I'm also not sure if it would work as well for continuous players, as the limited ammo and health in pistol start is kind of essential to the atmosphere of dread. I think the visual detail could have been a lot more interesting without straying from the concept, given that this map is all about the journey it would have been nice to have more interesting stuff to look at on the way. But I have to applaud it for choosing a gimmick and sticking to it all the way.

[Pirx]

map 17

downtown, another city map. well, my grief with city maps is that i usually have no idea where to run, everything looks the same, and rather big and blocky when someone attempts to create realistic places in doom. it's very easy to start infights when you have plenty of space to move around, but at the same time you'll inevitably run into some arachnotron fire, or get sniped at by those chaingunners on the roof, often losing more health in the process than gunning down the mob would have costed. i found the bfg quickly, but got trapped by the cybers in the building, so i had to kill them both inside and then shoot the mob on the streets. monsters get stuck everywhere, demons get hit by chaingunners above and then keep running against the walls trying to bite the gunners in vain. a bit dull indeed.


map 18

what capellan said: stealth game, thanks, no. having no patience for this, i watched the demo from doomedsda to see how it's done. needed a dozen tries or so to reach the armory. however, it's admirable how much work eschdoom has put into making sure this concept map works, although doom's dumb monsters aren't the perfect cast for this.


map 19

the interlocking corridors, which made it rather confusing, it's easy to run circles here. however a very nice looking map, a techbase in doom3's dark metal style, different from the white tiled ones before.


map 20

ok, what revelations? a city map, and a very large and blocky one that makes you lost between a horde of monsters that suddenly populate the streets.


map 21

a sudden theme change: welcome to hell. a mostly orthogonal level made of red stone, a central ring with several rooms branching off. the ssg makes a world of difference if you find out how to get it, as the shootable switch is revealed only when you cross a line farther away. i played the last few maps with d2rmus (the new version) which had moodier tunes imo in these slots and overheared the opening sound.

[Sui Generis]

I'm still quite behind.

Map20 - “Revelations”
Big, large scale level, with some decent juxtaposition of unnerving quietness followed by big monster releases. The second one on the way to the UAC HQ after picking up the blue with the cybs was pretty impressive I guess, though for me there was so much infighting that occurred so quickly that I felt more of a spectator. The ambush just near the red key was pretty tricky, with the declination making it risky to use the rocket launcher. All in all I probably enjoyed some of the smaller scale areas more here, which is strange as normally I like large scale levels. I also missed one of the secrets. This is a suitably grandiose climax to the episode, I will agree that after the battles the map contains, a single cyb guardian is underwhelming (despite it's symbolic status as ultimate monster). I also thought the gateway to hell would've been a bit more imposing than the symmetric square teleporter, with surround columns that we were presented with. It's ok though.

Looking at some of the other comments it would seem my decision to visit and entirely clear our the blue key area first led to a more sedate, structured playthrough. I didn't have a bunch more monsters from the other wing to lure in and sow infighting with, but it also meant there was a steadier build up in encounters. Perhaps this would be a germ of some linear thinking still coming from Eschdoom?

Map21 - “Limbo”
On to the hell episode! After near 20 maps of techbases (or more if counting the secret levels) it's a breath of fresh air (or rather sulphurous, fetid air I guess) to have the change of scenery. This map is again quite corridor-ish although it's also non-linear, what with the key quests in wings and hub area needing three keys. It's actually quite reminiscent of ConCERNed in this respect. As Magnus notes the level very nakedly reuses some sections from Containment area, which makes me wonder how many more such 'homages' have there been beyond the Pl25 already raised? I only realised belatedly that I was supposed to used the invuln to rocket jump, so that's two out of four secrets for me. The fact that I didn't find the secret to the SSG was not a problem due to continuous play - I was really thrown off by one blue torch on the end of the square doughnut corridor which I assumed must do something, given that it was the only one around that was coloured differently. Looking at it in Doombuilder though, it seems I was only wrong to become too fixated on it. Good secret. The interwoven spiral was quite '96ish, though I mean this in a good way. I, like DotW, certainly thought the marble lionface near the blue key was a secret by the way.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP24: Necromanteion

Like MAP18 this is, for me, a case of "interesting idea, but I don't know how you could have pulled it off in a way that pleased me." It's also the first map of the WAD where I found zero secrets playing through and felt no compulsion to retrace my footsteps to go look for them. Because there would have been so many footsteps to retrace. If I were awarding points I would no doubt award some for trying what this level does even if my playthrough wasn't particularly enjoyable.

[cannonball]

Map24 - “Necromanteion”
..........

[Varis Alpha]

i like D2R to a certain extent, but i can't fathom what made the author think it was a good idea to have Necromanteion in the project.

[scifista42]

Map23 - “Elysian Plains"

Worse layout than the previous map had - simple straightforward gameplay with minimum choices to make and slightly more monster meat than needed. I remembered the mandatory lava crossing to be longer, I felt annoyed before I've even stepped there, but it turned out to be not that bad - it's on the boundary of counter-intuitiveness, though. On the other hand, the map had atmospheric visual theme and details, all of which were pretty good. Gravestones and spider nets were cool, as well as the relatively tight graveyard / tomb design in general. D_AMPIE music spoilt the atmosphere a little, though (my fault, I didn't bother replacing it with any of the D2RMUS ones). I've got 2/4 secrets (plasmarifle & soulsphere), no idea how to get into the other ones, even though I've found their location via IDDT.

I still liked this map, although less than MAP22.

[Capellan]

map25
This large marble fortress is a huge step up from the last map. You actually get a choice of where to go, for instance, with three keys that you can collect more or less in any order. On continuous anyway - I suspect that on pistol start there may be a bit more constraint on how you proceed, based on where you need to go to get weapons.

Good variety of monsters and interesting encounters, though some of the distant hitscanners in the outdoor areas were quite annoying.

Overall a strong level, though I don’t think visually it gels quite as well as some of the episode two maps. It’s certainly not bad looking at all, it’s just not quite got the same flair.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP25 Hell's Gate

I'd say this is one of the better Hell levels here. again, another good MIDI from the old D2RMUS, and it's a mostly nonlinear affair. Andy puts a number of weapons in a few different places, which makes it intriguing to find while pistol starting, although it took me awhile to find a shotgun. main drawback is that the ground floor doesn't have any, but at least the side segments had a few things to show. it's another three-key type of level though, but the more open nature compliments it very well. there was a very cool interesting tidbit towards the south of the map, where you see a soulsphere in front of an eye switch, but the eye switch opens and you hear an arch-vile, cool.

[scifista42]

Map24 - “Necromanteion”

Again, a very unconventional concept map. Entire map fits into a square outline, and it's just one twisted (but orthogonal) monochromatic corridor with occasional structural variations on the way - many different ones, and some were actually nice by themselves, but always simple and always one at a time. I didn't bother backtracking to secrets / getting all of them, even though I've got the computer area map at the beginning, which shown me locations of all the other secrets. Combat was as much fun as a combat without performing any side movements can be. That is, sufficiently OK for one playthrough, but no more, please. I don't dislike the map, but an interconnected one would be simply better.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP25: Hell's Gate
99% kills, 4/6 secrets

Ahh, much better. More of an outside castle, this time, with a large interior courtyard surrounded by higher-up walls and battlements. While the courtyard is largely empty and ignored, it does help provide some different feeling from the interior hallways of the last few hell levels. Three keys (all needed for the exit) are scattered around, but there's quite a few paths one can take. Weapons are also similarly scattered around, with multiple copies of each one, so pistol starters also can approach the level in various ways. All in all, pretty good level, I especially liked the surprise cyberdemon and secret nearby in the center of the map on the way to the exit door.

[scifista42]

Map25 - “Hell’s Gate”

This map had all the complexity and stylishness like MAP22 did. However, its scale was larger, and therefore it generally felt more empty and hallway-heavy, and slow projectile throwers were more tedious to fight here. Not exciting map at all, but it was a good stroll around a fortress, anyway. I liked the usage of an arachnotron as a distant sniper in a long corridor on the bridged way to the exit. On the other hand, cyberdemons and large numbers of revenants were a letdown.

[Memfis]

As per tradition, have some half-serious suggestions...

Number One Kill The Next Generation
Newdoom Community Project
Ultimate Doom 2
Extremal Doom
Squadron 417
Hell in Hell
megawad.wad
Eviltech
Rebirth
Heretic
HACX

But of course my favorite would be an /idgames roulette month: click on the "random file" button until you get 31 single map wads, preferably only relatively obscure ones (10 votes or less). That's by far the most fun thing for me to do in Doom.

[Sui Generis]

Map22 - “River Styx”
I thought this was an excellent map. A nice classic hell aesthetic with a good dose of interconnection and what must be a pretty rough pistol start elevates this level above the previous one. The level feels significantly less corridors-y than previous maps, even though in retrospect this map still has it's fair share of them. What seems to make the difference for me is that here there are more varied rooms and 3D spaces which are connected via them and revisited. Different areas are seen and re-seen from different perspectives, which adds to the sense of place and prevents it from feeling like a corridor crawler to me. The non-linearity of the map helps with this too.

Although one of the strengths of D2R has been it's depictive style, I think this level illustrates how being free from the need to depict things such as chairs, seats and the like in 'rational' human-designed and laid out buildings frees an author to come up with more interesting layouts and architecture. Only 75% secrets for me here, but this is definitely a favourite level of the wad so far.

EDIT: I just reloaded my save on this level and found the 4th secret.

Map23 - “Elysian Plains"
This map was less impressive. It's a far less open and interconnected layout, with fewer intersections at the non-corridor areas, so it was much less interesting to me. I agree that the name doesn't fit and there are too many small cramped hallways. There was a good use of spectres in the marble area after the lava, and I'm glad that the author added a secret to reward exploring. I'm a touch unsure about what the point was of the lone secret cyb area with the invuln though; there's acres of space and no other monsters so it's a doddle to deal with without the invuln. I do have to compliment the author on the final area baron trap with the pinky release. This completely caught me off guard and my natural instinct to retreat from the barons led me right into the jaws of demons ensuring I lost a good deal of health.

There was some nice scenery and silhouettes in the graveyard and I like the arch texture, but otherwise this level didn't impress me too much. I got 75% secrets and did not figure out the initial chaingunner closet one. (I assumed the different gargoyle texture in the next room was related and there might be something timed or shootable, but apparently not.)

Memfis said:

[Next month's suggestions]

I guess it's just about time for the voting to open. I would like to repeat your suggestion from the conCERNed thread:
Return to Phobos + Hell Run + Back to Hell + Crusades (4 old Doom 1 episodes)

Alternatively, I might be interested in the roulette month, although it has the potential to produce some pretty poor results.