The DWmegawad Club plays: Doom 2 Reloaded

[scifista42]

Map12 - “Return to Earth”

I've restarted my continuous playthrough here, because it seemed as a good opportunity. So I've played this map from pistol start, but I intend to continue... ehm... continuously. :)

Good map. City theme is a classic, but D2Reload style hasn't really changed anyway. Techbase elements were simply and naturally replaced by toilet rooms, roads, parks etc, generally an architecture for common citizens instead of technicians only. I liked this map's locations and secrets.

There were 2 main downsides. One was related to the white square textures, they were overused badly, like if the mapper didn't care for changing a placeholder texture. The other problem was skippability of fights on the main road, too many high-tier monsters could have been disregarded without consequences. That said, neither of these problems made the map terrible. I still liked it - I just could have liked it even more without these issues.

Sp00kyFox said:

all the talk about the music, where do you even get the other version of D2RMUS? I only have the one from DSDA which consists of dance/techno music. the one on idgames doesn't even include an extra music wad.

Memfis linked it on the first page. It's on eschdoom's homepage. Here you go.

[Sp00kyFox]

thanks!

[Never_Again]

eschdoom's site
Linking to the author's site is more appropriate than hotlinking the files, IMO.

[scifista42]

You're right, actually it did come to my mind, but I was in a little rush while writing the post, and it didn't strike me that linking the page would be preferred so much that I should bother to take a few seconds to change the link.

[Suitepee]

Right, now that I've finally finished Brutal Doom I'll be doing some livestreams of this megawad for the month. Hope I'm in for something good!

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP12 Return to Earth

well, what an aptly titled map. so we have a basic base layout for most of the map (with one particularly devious chaingun trap) plus some restrooms. aww, that's hilarious. going outside, it was quite surprising to see the big monsters in that one closet, but even more surprising to find that some enemies are attacking from the big door to the north as well. at the end there was good ol' cybie again. pretty basic.

[Capellan]

map12
There's one moment of fairly dickish progression in this map. I'm sure I will not be the only one to get stuck there for a while and to say unkind things about the author when finally working it out.

Although we've moved into 'episode 2' this map is more of the same kind of thing as we've seen before, at least for most of its length. Only after the yellow door to we enter the city. Where I merrily ignored the cyberdemon and waltzed to the exit.

Secrets remain the most interesting element of the maps, IMO.

[scifista42]

Capellan said:

map12
There's one moment of fairly dickish progression in this map. I'm sure I will not be the only one to get stuck there for a while and to say unkind things about the author when finally working it out.

Which moment?

[Never_Again]

A Capellan moment, obviously, silly.

Good ol' Adam, you can always count on him to find something nice to say, whatever the map. And thanks to him and this thread I suddenly realized that while this WAD has been a big favorite with me these past six years, I haven't actually played it all that much.

[Capellan]

I've played through map19 already and I actually quite like most of episode 2. Still think most of episode 1 is poor.

[Havoc Crow]

MAP11: Phobos Lab

A short but fairly sweet map, though devoid of any real challenges (the Cyberdemon in particular is heavily neutered), and unfortunately the attempt at realistic design ultimately ends up looking rather bland. The arch-vile fight was the only really interesting one and it was very easy as well. The checkerboard textures and the bright white corridors look way out of place in Doom; they're too clean and too primitive, like they are something straight out of the Monochrome Mapping Project.

[Demon of the Well]

scifista42 said:

Which moment?

I'll bet you.....$2.17 that he's talking about the way around the malfunctioning door. One of those "hide in plain sight" sort of deals.

On the topic of the music, I went with the new version this time not so much because I had any particular dislike for the music in the original version (I'm mostly indifferent to that style of music, in point of fact), but mostly because I'm curious what the selections of pre-existing songs will be in the new one. Some of them have been very strange, for sure, but I suppose that's part of the entertainment.

[scifista42]

Demon of the Well said:

I'll bet you.....$2.17 that he's talking about the way around the malfunctioning door. One of those "hide in plain sight" sort of deals.

Well... I know it's not plain as a day, but I can't help thinking it was obvious enough. There are 2 big holes next to the door, holes are passable in Doom by default, so that they took enough attention for themselves. I've noticed the missing glass immediately and went through it before even thinking about trying the door. I actually didn't even notice how the door partly raised due to a walkover (I was busy fighting enemies, I think), I've only found it out now. Crawling corridors started to be boring, so I liked this little quirk for its innovation and engagement. I considered it hard to completely miss, too. I'm not sure if I wouldn't think differently if I missed it myself, heh - but I think I actually wouldn't. It was a nice setup.

[cannonball]

Map12 - “Return to Earth”
The visuals don't seem to have changed much as we move into the city section of the map. The map was an okay medium sized romp with a few nasty traps, but nothing too hard. The secrets were rather easy to find this time. The megasphere one is a bitch to get though.
I had no issues with progression here.

[Havoc Crow]

MAP12: Return to Earth

The map reminds me a bit of the initial levels of Going Down, what with the lots of zombies and the buildings visible out the windows. One location (the yellow key room) strongly resembles the blue keycard room in Duke Nukem 3D's E1M2.

There are toilets, of course. And - sigh - they feature the old, old, irresistible cliches of every single toilet ever to appear in first-person shooter levels: 1) monsters in the stalls, 2) unpleasant liquid in the bowl. This used to be a clever gag at one time I guess.

Overall, this was a little disappointing. The city streets part was short and uninteresting, and these white grid textures look really bad. There are no real tough fights, as long as you watch out for the chaingunners you're safe. Overall, in terms of difficulty this seems to be one of the easier PWADs I've seen, I'm playing on HMP but it feels more like HNTR most of the time.

Well... I know it's not plain as a day, but I can't help thinking it was obvious enough. There are 2 big holes next to the door, holes are passable in Doom by default, so that they took enough attention for themselves. I've noticed the missing glass immediately and went through it before even thinking about trying the door.

I approached the door and ended up walking through the hole accidentally.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP12: Return to Earth

Again a bit of a mixed bag with this level. Given the intermission text screen and the fact that the level titles have emphasised the transition from Phobos to Earth, the continued use of the while tile textures early in this level is a bit baffling; I definitely don't find them attractive enough to justify their use on their own merits, nor do they seem to do anything here that the various classic GRAY* couldn't achieve while also better emphasising "we're not on Phobos any more, Toto." Matter of personal taste, but those textures are a new asset I won't be particularly sad to see the last off.

That said, I like the overall layout of this level, working my way out from the innards of a UAC base/teleport terminal into the city beyond. The way it's structued to be reminiscent of an airport - passenger lounge, security checkpoints, moving walkway - is a nice touch; there's room to disagree on whether or not teleporters as presented in Doom could ever take off that way, but it's a change from teleporters as Yet Another Malfunctioning Experiment. Lots of lovely squirrelly exploration play in air vents and other backstage areas.

It's been long enough since I've played Duke Nukem 3D that I don't have a strong opinion of the particular comparison that JudgeDeadd makes, but I think it's at atmosphere that's overall present in this level, especially with its air vents and other nods to realistic city/building layout in a way that classic Doom doesn't really attempt to do.

The ending feels like a little bit of a bait-and-switch, letting the player out into the city streets only to immediately drop them into a sewer upon reaching the exit, but I'm interested to see just what's in store for me. Other than that... the early chaingun trap stands out as one that'll catch pistol starters much more readily than continuous players; the shotgun guys waiting in the wings of that trap were actually the last 10 enemies I killed on my playthrough because I had plenty of bullets on hand and ignored the chaingun and ammo on my way through, and it wasn't until I was staring down the exit tunnel that I realised I was only on 87/97 kills and started backtracking to find out what I'd missed.

[mouldy]

Map12 - “Return to Earth”

Fun map, those space-toilet textures give it quite a clean stylish look. And there is an actual toilet in this map, for which it gets lots of points. I even sneaked into the ladies. Again, getting the secrets made me a force to be reckoned with, even the first proper cyberdemon fight was a pushover with the BFG, I'm not complaining though. That secret megasphere I just couldn't get. I didn't even need it, I already had max health and armour and a map full of dead monsters, but it taunted me. I could see a way to it, but it involved a ridiculous jump onto a thin ledge. Oh well. I can see that missing glass next to the door would annoy anyone who didn't spot it, I have to say I noticed it before even trying the door, but I find it amusing given the glass texture itself is pretty damn subtle as it is. Some broken glass on the floor might have been a good idea, although the concept of a puzzle based on the inadequacy of a texture is a bit dodgy perhaps (as dodgy as glass you can shoot through?)

[SyntherAugustus]

Level 12

Easy-ish map. I liked that the megawad is hopefully moving away from diner textures into the outdoors. That megasphere secret was silly though. You either had to turn on wallrunning or do some SR50 stunt.

The missing "holographic window" bit was funny though. It didn't take me long to notice the first time since I ran through it by accident (I hug a lot of walls).

Oh and there's a bit where hiding behind the bench for the archvile didn't work twice. Well that was fun.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP12: Return to Earth
100% kills, 5/5

Now having a good handle on what this mapset is all about, I'd say that this was one of the more successful ones in that regard - lots of representationalist details here and there, and for the most part, I think they work rather well. Yeah, we've all seen sector chairs and laptops and benches and stuff before, but for my part I feel this is one of the better attempts. Most of the layout/gameplay doesn't really suffer from being so 'realistic', which is also nice...

With the exception of the ending. Really bad design there, as the tiny yellow door creates a traffic jam that isn't fun (either you're stuck in it with no room to dodge, or have to sit outside and eat revenant rockets, or slowly pick them off from afar) and there's also the baron/mancubi/arachnatron group at the far other end of the 'L' that doesn't do much. The cyberdemon release is also pretty poor, since he'll likely just walk out past the yellow door and allow the player to sneak by him.

Regarding the 'door that opens partially' and having to climb in through the broken window, I basically discovered the lack of window accidentally. Playing through this WAD I've had to keep reminding myself that the window textures are like gates (impassable but let projectiles through) and so definitely threw me off at first glance to just barely not notice the little window texture. Ah well.

[VGA]

Just finished MAP15. Big respect to the author I'm really enjoying this megawad.

[scifista42]

Map13 - “Slime Falls”

Good variation in texturing themes. Visuals were OK. Details weren't very memorable in this map (too simple / generic shapes), but they served their purpose more than well enough - waste treatment station actually had giant pumps and some computers to control them. The environment interweaved itself in a reasonable way, both from gameplay and realistic perspectives. Some of the cramped bricky tunnels had metal pillars next to walls that were easy to get stuck on, slightly annoying. Progression was mostly linear, but improved towards the end, forcing me to find my way further. It featured jumping into a small hole in a wall to get the red key - I've found it interesting, yet another good way to spice up map progression at least slightly. Jumping over moving pumps didn't feel particularly impressive to me. Raising level of nukage was a cool mechanic, though. I really like the switchable screens, encountered in the past few levels - they make a good effect, complete with the switch sound. I've found 2/4 secrets in this map, and I knew where the other 2 were - megasphere on a crate, soulsphere in a window, both in the eastern part of the map - but I couldn't figure out how to access them. Nice map, not extra impressive with visuals or gameplay, but still resourceful and inspiring, which I appreciate.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP13 Slimefalls

well here's one I'm definitely not a fan of. the layout is quite interesting to go through though. already I'm forced through dangerous liquid, and it recurs throughout the map. near the south part of the map were some interesting pumping vats, with powerups on them, including an invulnerability on easy difficulties, but man are they annoying to pick up because the pumps keep moving up and down and you have to wait. most of the combat was limited to small fries as usual, with a couple bigwigs every now and then. staying on the solidified ground was the hardest part. two of the secrets were interesting. one is timed in accordance with the pumping station switch, in which I had to race back to the slime and find an open door to get it, with only one shot. the other was an arch-vile jump that gives me a BFG which helps in the last part of the map. the floor suddenly collapsing at the end was a bit of a gimmick.

[scifista42]

Heh - only now I've realized what was the intended progression in MAP13. I was supposed to get through the yellow door and then through a window to get the blue, then go through blue door, press 2 switches to raise lifts, and ride the lifts to get the red key and then get out of there. Instead, as I said in my post above, I jumped for the red key over the pit, went to the exit, then backtracked to get the blue key, went around the whole structure, jumped to the blue door ledge and opened the room from this side, and didn't even notice the 2 switches at all! Interesting how I made the map less slow, less boring and less linear than it would have been, without even realizing.

Also, the Megasphere secret seems to be accessible only via an Archvile jump. And the Soulsphere secret becomes inaccessible once the nukage floor fully raises - am I supposed to rush there while the floor is raising? If these assumptions are true, I have to say that I'm not a fan of such temporary/one-time-accessible secrets.

[Capellan]

map13
A more ‘industrial’ than tech themed level here, so it seems we are properly transitioning to the city now. This is probably my favourite level so far. Interesting use of verticality (unlike map01), and some good fights. Occasionally a fraction obtuse in progression, but nothing too bad. The ‘dickish’ progression method from last map is used again, but is much more clearly marked (plus you’ve seen it before) so is not such a problem.

The final fight’s a bit underwhelming - just a wide corridor with some monsters at the other end - but other than that, I’ll actually give this one a thumbs up.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP13: Slimefalls
100% kills, 1/4 secrets

Away from the white squares and back to more default Doom textures, thankfully. Layout is good, if the room shapes are a bit boring, and I'm always a sucker for the "liquid fills up the level and allows new progression" trope. Nothing really of note gameplay-wise though. Took me a little while to figure out how to get the red key (since the switches to create the lifts were usually "activate lift" buttons for the rest of the map) but no big problem.

[Degree23]

BlackFish said:

That megasphere secret was silly though. You either had to turn on wallrunning or do some SR50 stunt.

I thought so too, but once you make the jump out from the path behind the male toilets to the wall, you can just drop to here and it's really easy from there.

[SyntherAugustus]

You need SR50/Wallrunning to even get to that ledge that leads you there though. :-/

Anywho, MAP13 was a bit worse about the secrets as Scifista42 mentioned.

Level 13

I was going to do a single recording. Since the SSG secret was pretty much imperative to get, I figured I'd try to make a recording that clears the level, which it does.

-If you missed the easily missable SSG secret when doing a pistol start, you're fucked pretty much.
-You need to time the soulsphere secret, which can be a pain in the ass when you have low health and no rad suit.
-You need to AV jump to the Mega/BFG secret. In Easy/Med filters you get 3 medikits to work with, but in Hard (UV) you only get one. Bring 100 health and 100 armor if you want to bother with this secret.
-The plasma secret can be accessed by a desk switch. No big deal here.

Otherwise the architecture was pretty cool. I was a fan of the pumps and the water rising.

[Sui Generis]

I've switched over to the oldmus for my playthrough - I think I agree that the faster midis have generally been better suited for the first episode.

Map11 - “Phobos Lab”
That white and black wall texture is an eyesore. I agree with earlier comments that it makes sense for a lab to be white and sterile looking, and this is a realism focused wad; but having it all over like this is not aesthetically pleasing. That black/brown and white flat on the other hand seems too kitchen-ish. I'm not a fan of this texture style in the wad. The map itself is ok, as the layout is a bit more compact so it feels less 'stringy', though the need to have rooms seem realistic often ends up meaning they have to be simple and not have much variation in where you're attacked from. I do agree with Capellan that the crate sections tend to be more fun, probably because there is more potential for cross-fires and attacks from multiple sources rather than simple room-cleaning. The arch-vile release just near the Cyb area is an exception. I'm going to go on record as liking the cyb crusher, even though it's been done plenty of times before. The execution here with bespoke switch texture for the 'specimen crusher' was endearing. It fits in well with a realism focused wad like this and it's an appropriately cinematic introduction of the monster. The two archies were used well, and that second one near the yellow key can potentially be quite nasty if you don't handle it well. The first may potentially take some time if you don't get the secret SSG.

I got all the secrets, but I only found the one with all the powerups after I'd more or less killed everything, which was a pain. Oh well.

Map12 - “Return to Earth”
As others have commented, you'd be forgiven for thinking we were still on Phobos with the repetition of the white texturing. I guess buildings might well re-use design elements, but still something to distinguish this from the previous level for the sake of the story would have been nice. Anyway, this is a pretty nice and well-designed level. As with above, the map utilises the realistic architecture but with a more compact and interesting layout than the earlier maps. I particularly liked the checkpoint on the exterior. I noticed the broken holographic window immediately so wasn't held up there either. Gameplay wise, this map seemed a bit kinder than the previous one which used arch-viles (a signature of this wad) more dangerously. The AV here is away from corpses and with acres of space to lure it away from it's comrades for convenient disposal. The ending cyb was a good surprise, although it was easy to camp behind the yellow door and get it to kill the demons and chaingunners. Following this there is of course plenty of space plus a BFG from a secret to dispatch it. I would perhaps slightly criticise the booby-trapped chaingun however; on continuous you may well not go to pick that up straight away or at all, so I nearly exited missing that trap and the kills. More significantly, I think the wad is starting to get a bit repetitive with the 'chaingunners round the corners' trope.

Overall a pretty good map. The fact that the female toilet was a secret made me smile, however the megasphere secret was frustrating (albeit ultimately satisfying) to get to. I'm not sure if I should read anything into the fact that the female toilets are all occupied by imps...

[Magnusblitz]

BlackFish said:

You need SR50/Wallrunning to even get to that ledge that leads you there though. :-/

In ZDoom I can get it just by running diagonally (running forward and strafing together, which I understood is SR40), I'm not sure if ZDoom has SR50 always on or something though.

Sui Generis said:

I'm not sure if I should read anything into the fact that the female toilets are all occupied by imps...

Female imps are canon in the Doom novels! Or at least in Flynn Taggart's imagination in the Doom novels.

[Pirx]

ok, some more impressions after a bit of weekend dooming. where have i left:

map 06:

already commented on that one, but i like it much better now that i know how to do that map. one revenant near the elevator that allows you to hop onto those crates was a particular pain in the ass, always launching missiles at me when i was busy below.


map 07:

given that no archvile turned up after i had killed all spiders, i played the original dead simple with a few changed textures... couldn't bother to go back and replay it just for the sake of those viles.


map 08:

i can be terrible when playing a map for the first time, sticking to one route and ignoring better solutions. so you guessed it, i missed the ssg and put up with a lot of baddies only using shotgun + chaingun. and no wonder it was tedious until i got to the rocket launcher. so i played it again , taking the more useful route to the hidden ssg and plasma. you're right, eschdoom's secrets really change how a map plays. much better, in this case. i liked the dark oppressive style of that facility apparently made for giants.

as for the music, i kept switching between the old and the new d2r musicwads. the old one is better in general, but i like some tracks from the new one too. guess i'll make my own mix out of them for use with d2r.


map 09:

ah, the controversial map. for me it was just frustrating in the beginning. i went down to that flooded reactor thing, drained it, came out, only to find the elevator blocked by a mob of monsters surrounding it. then the bridge was blocked. eh. i decided to stop dancing around with the ssg and just stuff them with plasma as quick as possible. worked. i made it to the crusher room and was just lucky that no ghosts were resurrected. the "correct" way to play it would be killing the archviles first (i watched quaatar's demo from dsda)


map 10:

seriously, when i saw that map i wondered if my gzdoom misses some textures or the author forgot placeholders in the map. i think that using even stock textures would have left a better impression than this "experimental" look. the architecture isn't impressive either: some corridor shooting and a square warehouse. at least i liked the acid pit where you find the bfg, it's in the dark and lights up as you step on it. nothing resembling an admin building.


map 11:

entertainig gameplay, especially the warehouse part, where the crate-hopping from map06 gets repeated. sadly, it uses this non-texture again. reminded me of FEAR where some hospitals maps looked like this.