The DWmegawad Club plays: Doom 2 Reloaded

[Salt-Man Z]

MAP09: Phobos Subversion
Ah, the main gimmick here is clever, but I had no what to do until it was far too late. Thank goodness for continuous play and my fully-stocked BFG, otherwise I'd have been screwed. Of course, if I played it again, I'd know exactly what to do to beat it more easily.

MAP10: Adminisration
Not bad. Nothing particular exciting or damning, though. I certainly didn't mind the all-white wall panel textures.

MAP11: Phobos Lab
A good one. Lots of nooks and crannies to explore. Not much else to say about it, though.

[Havoc Crow]

MAP13: Slimefalls

I decided to switch to Ultra-Violence. I found this map was a lot more fun than the few previous ones, and I'm not sure if it wasn't mainly for the increased difficulty.

This is yet another old Doom standby, a sewer map. It's easy to make such levels frustratingly mazelike, but this one is a fun map which makes use of a somewhat complex, clever layout. Radsuits are very tight, and you really need to plan your moves and remember where the doors are.

I can't really recall any standout encounters, perhaps just the arch-vile - while I'm here, by the way, I'd like to give my heartfelt thanks for that arch-vile for launching me (with barely any armor and health) right into the megasphere. It's a pity the arch-vile then had to sacrifice himself for the call of duty (saying duty being increasing my kill count.) The battle across the large slime tank, with the arachnotron and the zombies on the other side was slightly annoying, but later the same room had a cool moment where I carefully tried to get across the now-filled tank and up the stairs without the zombies high up above piercing me with bullets. There's also the infighting horde at the end, which is a nice, relaxing send-off.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP13: Slimefalls

I rather liked this level - and I'm surprised that I did, since I'm not normally a fan of levels that feature extensive damaging floors over much of the map area. I think it helps that I never felt like the supply of radsuits was insufficient; there was always one to hand when I needed to take a dip in the nukage, and if it ran out before I got to safety, I always felt that it was because I'd loitered while fighting or searching rather than because of issues with the map layout itself.

I think the map manages to feel less orthogonal than it is, with the big vertical spaces and dramatic changes to the map contributing to the strong 'sense of place' it has. And I think the use of a custom texture for the switch that raises the slime level in a big part of the map is a good idea; it's not "just another switch," instead the player knows what it's supposed to do and that it's likely to be big and important before they even press it.

I kind of goofed with the two switches that raised lifts; encountering them in a level that had already made use of drastic floor level changes, I'd assumed that they were a "one to raise the floor, one to lower it" setup and ended up (by dumb luck) only pressing the one that raises the platform leading to the red key. Fortunately there's a route out of that slime pit even for players like me who don't entirely figure out what's going on there (or who fall into the pit without hitting either switch) - the use of keyed doors in this level feels very natural, as previously-visited passages are returned to and new options are unlocked.

[scifista42]

Megasphere ledge in MAP12: The distance between the ventilation shaft window and the ledge is 128 units, and their floor heights are equal. You only need SR40 to leap over the gap, in vanilla and any port. No SR50 or wallrun.

[cannonball]

Map13 - “Slime Falls”
Well I guess this counts as a thematic change, this is a pretty decent sewer map and the narrative fits fairly well as hell has broken the road (typical).
The first third of this map is the most dangerous due to the lack of armour, I really had a bad time with RNG here, too many 80 damage hits here resulting in instant death. The rest of the map felt fine overall, though the end battle felt a little pointless.

The issue with the jump on map12 is that you need to land and stop on that thin platform, making the jump wasn't the issue for me, remaining on the platform and not scooting off was the issue. I see no problem for casual players, but it is a deal breaker for speedrunners I feel.

[Sp00kyFox]

BlackFish said:

You need SR50/Wallrunning to even get to that ledge that leads you there though. :-/

you can definitely do it without SR50. like degree23 said, SR40 from the secret area onto the wall works. from there you can get to the megasphere. I did it in prboom+.

[SyntherAugustus]

Alright I stand corrected then. I tried so many times doing normal running.

edit: I ran into these white panel textures when playing Duke3d last night. They seem to possibly work where the white panels exist in D2Reload. Thoughts?

http://imgur.com/4rMi6Qf

[Salt-Man Z]

Whew! All caught up!

MAP12: Return to Earth
Another good one. Loved the bathrooms and the secrets accessed thereby. Shooting lots of guys through panes of glass was weird. And the "door is locked, but there's a pane of glass missing" progression was a bit iffy (there's another one on MAP13) but it was fun. That cyberdemon killed more times than I should have let him. The pseudo-realism (roads, security station, bathrooms) is all very nice. Got 100% again, too, which was a plus.

MAP13: Slimefalls
Not a fan of damaging floors at all, really, but this was still a fun level. Luckily I ducked into the early lefthand tunnel and found the radsuit right away. Loved how the central chamber filled up, that was very cool.

[scifista42]

Map14 - “Underground”

Linear as a bad dream, really. But for that, actually pretty fun! It was interesting to see the environments changing numerous times, while not at all randomly, but driven by a reasonable story, which the map was telling: You escape a collapsed tunnel onto the street, then fight your way through a building into an underground station, go into a restroom if you want, then run over the rails to find out that this tunnel has collapsed too, but uncovered a cave system nearby, which you can pass through, then break into a ventilation shaft inside some building, find an elevator and continue to the next map.

The environments themselves were all well-made and nice, even those architecturally more simple ones. Fights were good, with varied-enough monster cast and varied-enough space where the combat took place. I liked and appreciated how the entire map could have been backtracked back and forth. In fact, I jumped onto the railway once I've seen it, got all the way to the exit, then backtracked to fully visit the underground station near the start.

I couldn't get into the red key secret. I've got an impression that I was supposed to (mis)use the Archvile to open the red door from its back side? That would be like the MAP12 secrets I disliked, if not worse. Tell me if I'm wrong with the assumptions.

I liked this map a lot, anyway. Fun adventure.

[Capellan]

map14
Another level that I quite enjoyed. The maps remain pretty linear, but this one did at least feature some optional zones. They were toilets, admittedly, but they were optional :-)

I’m not so far seeing much of a difficulty curve at play here; the early maps are pretty close to the same difficulty as this map was (in fact I would say some are harder). I accept Demon’s hypothesis that map01’s don’t have to be easy, but I do feel that having some sort of progression is a good idea.

Looks-wise the map works well in an austere, grey and metal style. The right-angle turn in the road in the ‘city’ section looks kind of goofy though.

Even after looking in DB2 I have no idea how to access to red key secret -- the door sector is tagged 3, but there’s no linedef with that tag.

[scifista42]

There is a lone imp in the red key room, and the red door can be opened by monsters from its back side. I think you're supposed to keep the imp alive and lure him to open the door for you. The mechanism is interesting, but not enough transparent for an unknowing player - he can't know that the door can be opened by monsters from the other side, and he's not likely to find it out without cheating, or professional brainstorming, which typically happens after all monsters are dead. I'm not a fan of the secret.

[Capellan]

Yep, that's obtuse all right.

[SyntherAugustus]

https://youtu.be/nd5IjSH7L4Q?list=PL98383F1B06FF8208&t=842

Scifista42 is right according to this video. The player lures the imp into opening the door.

[TheOrganGrinder]

As I recall, Community Chest 3 uses a similar setup for granting access to its secret level; there's a demon that, if allowed to teleport through a maze of hallways, will open the red skull door from its other side. I'm also not a fan of this setup.

[purist]

Miles behind as usual.

7

Dead simple reskin.

8

A decent layout but mapflow is very linear and action mostly one dimensional but it ends with a fun setpiece accross parallel catwalks.

9

I really like the idea of the mission objective monitors. I think this helped with the atmosphere as, even though the majority of the level was sparse there was an unnerving quality to it. I never fully understood the workings of the huge crusher trap, I started it with the gates closed, then opened before before going to the chain link area to take out anything that made it through. I went into the control room after this and realised how I should have worked it. Never mind, the invention was much appreciated anyway and makes this my favourite level so far.

10

This is more familiar to the other levels in the WAD, functional but not particulary exciting. A hub layout with a bit of connectivity and some crossfire gameplay. The illuminating walkway was a nice touch and the Archvile at the top of the series of lifts was the highlight for me.

11

This one had a little more character although I killed the cyb before I read the crush the specimen sign. The trap directly following was the best moment in what was otherwise quite ordinary.

12

A very welcome change of scenery. Although most the level still takes place in a large scale techbase the tease of the city outside kept my interest piqued. Hopefully this represents some new themes and that more invention and variation is applied than was in a rather mundane first episode.

13

Yeah, this does feel a little different, still quite linear and over reliant on switch based progression but at least we have a new locale. Nukage is used in an aggressive manner to amp up the pressure and there is some moving parts used to good effect.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP14: Underground
90% kills, 3/4 secrets

Feels like a filler map. Nothing we haven't seen before... a subway station reminiscent of MAP12 (complete with similar bathrooms), then a trek down a train track and into some caverns. Very linear and not much difficulty, though ammo can get slim at the end (but it's easy to run past the barons).

[mouldy]

Map13 - “Slime Falls”

Kind of a puzzle map I guess, though it mostly points you where you need to go. I usually dread those maps with the switch to raise/lower the liquid in case they start turning into some kind of 3 dimensional maze, but this wasn't one of those situations. Enemies felt more like window dressing for most of it, but there was a respectable bunch of them waiting at the end. Shame i didn't see the plasma rifle and just shot them all through the doorway. I spent the whole map picking things off from a distance or from around corners, so a bit of rambo action would have been nice. I am liking the continuity of the exits by the way, and the general 'realism' of the scenery throughout these maps.

[SyntherAugustus]

Level 14

Once you figure out how the level works, it's not that bad of a level. It gets pretty easy once you enter the subway. The spiderdemon is no match for infighting and the bfg secret was a bit late for it to be useful.

At least I got Mr. Imp to open the door for me.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP14 Underground

a very bleak level, where I managed to avoid damage due to lots of space. start's out like the end of the previous, giving you the go to a large complex which happens to be the metro station. not a whole lot of monsters have invaded the train station though, and like MAP12 there's bathrooms again. not only that, but an interesting secret which involves provoking an imp and letting it open the red door from behind. most of the level was easy, the spiderdemon was a cinch due to invulnerability and infighting, and I had no use for the secret BFG at the end.

[Sui Generis]

Map13 - “Slime Falls”
Quite nice sewer level. It feels more like a conventional doom level than a D2R level, and has a nice mix of fights at close and more distant ranges across the main pumped slime pool room. I think the partial departure from the realism style here is the reason why this level is better, as the more abstract areas liberates the author to vary the monster encounters in a way that realistic, similar styled buildings have thus far been less than successful at, imo. The area transformation by the pool pumping has been foreshadowed on Map09, but that was confined to more or less a single room. Here the author really utilises it for a much bigger portion of the map and without any timing gimmicks to stop you from appreciating it, so it takes centre-stage.

I only found two of the secrets on this map, partly because I was too dumb to spot the AV jump when the opportunity presented itself (It didn't help that I assumed there'd be some nice wall texture or hidden switch to provide access). I also missed the soulsphere secret because I didn't see it due to it's height and the need to get out of the slime before the rad suit ran out. I only returned to that point after I'd hit the main pump button, so was left wandering futilely trying to find a way in to the now sealed secret. It's a one-time secret and I think it favours players using mouse-look in my opinion. I suppose there's going to be a case to make that it's still my stupid fault for not being observant enough. Oh well, it makes a change to not exit on 200/200 I guess so I won't complain too much. Pretty good level overall I think.

Map14 - “Underground”
This is quite an interesting map, though due to the distance involved and changing scenery I kind of feel like it's more of a map to facilitate a transition than a map in it's own right. The opening part looks impressive, though I found the sniping chaingunner irritating. Inside of the building is quite long open, and plain, which at least allows for fights at varying ranges. Because of the secrets in Map12, I developed a nearly fatal interest in lavatories on this map, which led me to being distracted until revvies started to interrupt my musings and I found the archie outside had been busy resurrecting most of the monsters I had killed. Good stuff. The red key secret was extremely trivial for me as an imp obligingly opened it.

The rest of this map after the underground tracks, really looks like it's from '96. I appreciate that making caves look organic may tend to emphasise more sectors and this could present issues in vanilla, but all the same, it stopped feeling like a modern wad. The penultimate battle with the spiderdemon was merely an issue of using ammo efficiently, due to my previously obtained BFG (The nearby plasma and abundant cover suggests pistol start should be simple too) and the remainder of the map is just incidental stuff. Overall I guess I don't mind this map and I liked the changes of scenery it takes you through, but other than the subway station archie fights I don't find this one remarkable. Oh and I note we're back to straightforward secrets - back to 100% again. (Although it seems like I may have just gotten lucky for the red key secret)

[Pirx]

map 12

is very duke nukem like, complete with crawling through air vents of toilets, where imps... i guess they have their needs too.

there's an invisibility conveniently placed for dealing with the chaingunners, but if you're not speedrunning they can be simply sniped through the door. i found all secrets, including the ledge that allows the player to drop onto the chaingunners below. still don't like these white tiles.

i also found the bfg and forgot that i had it, killed the revenants and the cyb with the plasma rifle (the latter by simply running out on the street firing)

[Guest]

Just gonna comment that I like following these threads, even though I don't usually join in.

Also, Blackfish, enjoying ur playthroughs. It gives me context when I read through people's comments about the various levels. I hope you keep doing these. :)

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP14: Underground

I find myself sharing Sui Generis' thoughts here, that it's a map to facilitate a transition rather than its own place. Which is a bit odd, because every since MAP12 it feels like the WAD has been constantly teasing that we'll get to the city maps proper soon but we never quite seem to. End of MAP12? You think you're out of the spaceport and into the city, but you're immediately dropped into a sewer which you have to spend all of MAP13 clawing your way out of. Start of MAP14? You finally emerge from that sewer and enjoy a minute or two under the open sky before heading underground again. For a transitional map, there are such rapid changes in environment and expected destination that I'm starting to feel a bit lost.

Onto the map itself... the lion's share of the gameplay seems to be tangled up around the initial subway station area, with more monsters popping out behind you as you push your way through. I suspect it would be entirely possible for a faster-paced player than I to plunge into the subway tunnel completely unaware of the arch-vile behind them; I'm not sure how possible/likely it is for the resurrected horde to then follow down the same tunnel, but it's a good use of the arch-vile in its support role without feeling cheap or frustrating.

[cannonball]

Map14 - “Underground”
Well this is a map that don't particularly like, first off the rock textures used are too similar to the tech and concrete stuff, as such the endless greyness is a little dull to be honest.
The only tough moment here is the ssg trap which can really ruin your day as the arch vile can undo all your hard work. The mastermind section is far too easy to beat in my opinion.

Yeah these city teases are also a little annoying, from what I remember the wait for a proper city setting will continue for a few maps yet.

[Havoc Crow]

MAP14: Underground

After MAP13 this level seemed a bit underwhelming. The arch-vile that pops up after you get the red key was a fun battle, but the map's standout encounter has to be entering the toilet (are there going to be toilets on every single city level?...) only to unexpectedly get besieged by an arch-vile with a posse of revenants and resurrected monsters. Other than that, though, there's not much here that's interesting. The spiderdemon battle looked like it was perfectly skippable, what with the invisibility and other monsters to distract it. Putting the night vision goggles in the sewer area was a quite pointless and bad idea, as it robs the area from its shaded aesthetic and leaves it looking underdetailed and ugly. The final cavern and ventilation duct sequences felt a bit like a chore.

[scifista42]

Map15 - “South Central”

I've realized very soon that listening to D_RUNNIN would completely ruin the map for me, so that I've replaced the track with the D2RMUS one, and it was million times better.

This was a great map, specially for a corridor crawler, from which I wouldn't normally expect extra fun. This one was actually fun. The layout finally involved nonlinearity to an extent that I've enjoyed. The layout was "realistic", elaborate, while also good looking on the automap and fun to navigate through (using the automap). It featured some non-orthogonal-angled walls, as well as interesting rooms. The E2M7-esque structure with caution stripes was simple yet iconic landmark. I also liked the yellow key building which I had to walk around before getting inside, I only wished it was less symmetrical.

Visuals and gameplay were thoroughly nice and enjoyable. I liked the varied lighting, hidden zombies, and occasional ambushes (in my back, etc) forcing me to move. I've particularly enjoyed the quest for secrets, they were hidden in inventive ways, well done. I've got 3 of them, and activated computer screens 1, 2 and 3. I wished to get to the secret level, so that I've cheated (using IDDT) to find out the location of the start secret. The walls didn't open so simply, but I've found the proper way to open them, legitimately. And so, I've got to the secret exit!

There were some switches in the map to close bars, which could be opened right after, anyway. Possibly to allow the player to protect himself from the monsters. Interesting. In the particular places how they were used in this map, I didn't care for them, though.

So to sum up, I liked the map.

[Never_Again]

scifista42 said:

Map15 - “South Central”
I've realized very soon that listening to D_RUNNIN would completely ruin the map for me, so that I've replaced the track with the D2RMUS one, and it was million times better.

Did you listen to the original, Prehistoric Tale 1 by Mad Max? Cool but eschdoom's version improves even on that. Yesterday I left it looping while doing something else and didn't even notice how an hour and a half flew by. Easily the best track in the old D2RMUS.

[scifista42]

^But Prehistoric Tale 1 is a MAP01 track, not MAP15 track.

[Never_Again]

Well, you said D_RUNNIN. ;)
D_RUNNI2 is different from D_RUNNIN in D2RMUS. Not epic like the latter, but still chiptunes > AOR.

[scifista42]

My mention of D_RUNNIN in MAP15 referred to the song "Running From Evil" itself, of course it's D_RUNNI2 lump. Alright, alright. :)