Worst mapping error in iwads?

[purist]

Based on the comments so far it seems id did a good job of avoiding critical errors. I'd expect more game breaking flaws could be found scrutinising most community megawads.

[scifista42]

dew said:

The drones are confused and think it's another pet peeve thread.

Quoted for truth. Or at least, I agree. We've already had threads about little oversights in IWADs, "Things ID got wrong" etc. This one was supposed to be about the very worst errors. I've already said it:

scifista42 said:

Can we limit the discussion to critical errors like player getting stuck, map crashing or completely visually breaking? I think that's what Memfis meant. Deliberate inescapable damaging pits, impossible 100% statistics and annoying design choices were a subject of other threads.

[Krazov]

I am a savegame abuser so inescapable pits was never my worry.

[j4rio]

It may sound unbelieveable, but I think I've seen a sarge stuck inside wall somewhere in underhalls. How embarassing!

[Looper]

j4rio said:

It may sound unbelieveable, but I think I've seen a sarge stuck inside wall somewhere in underhalls. How embarassing!

Don't forget the game breaking barrel inside a wall.

[j4rio]

Here is a definite proof of the failure. Checkmate, id software! If somebody says doom 2 is perfectly playable game, just show them these to prove those blind sheep otherwise.

1 2 3

The sargeant was incapable of putting up a fight, yet the game hasn't prevented me from murdering him in cold blood just like that. Could it be that doom2 has always been nothing more than filthy murder simulator for all these years? Despite many years of denial from the creators themselves, these horrible screenshots clearly prove all their hidden motives they wished to expose to our innocent children. How utterly distateful!

[Hoodie]

BaronOfStuff said:

It's not an error!

I'm sorry but that made me laugh really hard.

I understand why I'm wrong though.

[kb1]

fraggle said:

(E2M7 - Spawning Vats video)

E2M7 is the most messed-up map of the IWAD. Not only is it a mish-mash of texturing and structure styles, but if I remember correctly, it has some very strange linedef values. I think it might have been the main development map at id, and went through some quick conversion tools, or maybe hand-converted. At any rate, something strange happened through that map's history.

[fraggle]

kb1 said:

E2M7 is the most messed-up map of the IWAD. Not only is it a mish-mash of texturing and structure styles, but if I remember correctly, it has some very strange linedef values. I think it might have been the main development map at id, and went through some quick conversion tools, or maybe hand-converted. At any rate, something strange happened through that map's history.

E2M7 was indeed the original "first map" for Doom. It's the introductory map used in Doom 0.4 (with the marines playing cards around the table etc). Some of the inconsistent texturing may come from the E2 style (demonic texturing overcoming the Deimos tech base), but what you say may indeed have some truth to it.

[Wagi]

Ichor said:

In E5M8 of Heretic, the flats start going wild if you go to a certain spot and look in a certain direction (I believe it's near one of the outer walls and you look across the map), but only after the maulotaurs are dead and the columns have lowered. I'm guessing it's because it hits the visplane limit, but doesn't crash.

Do you have a screenshot of this? I have never experienced it.

[Krazov]

j4rio said:

Here is a definite proof of the failure. Checkmate, id software! If somebody says doom 2 is perfectly playable game, just show them these to prove those blind sheep otherwise.

1 2 3

The sargeant was incapable of putting up a fight, yet the game hasn't prevented me from murdering him in cold blood just like that. Could it be that doom2 has always been nothing more than filthy murder simulator for all these years? Despite many years of denial from the creators themselves, these horrible screenshots clearly prove all their hidden motives they wished to expose to our innocent children. How utterly distateful!

This has been discussed countless number (amount?) of times. “Underhalls” has been repositioned after version 1.666, and sargeant and a barrel was left there. But it’s not gamebreaking.

[joe-ilya]

[40oz]

Krazov said:

This has been discussed countless number (amount?) of times. “Underhalls” has been repositioned after version 1.666, and sargeant and a barrel was left there. But it’s not gamebreaking.

I disagree. Not that the level was adjusted or that its not gamebreaking, but it is an error, and a blatantly obvious one at that. It shouldn't really have been ignored for a final release of the game. Especially so early in the game. I'd probably argue that its the closest to "the worst error in the IWAD" than anything else posted so far because its so easily noticeable and very easy to fix. How did something like that get overlooked?

[yakfak]

I still say that the worst error in Doom 2 is that they didn't double the size of the SS soldier at the same time as they doubled the Wolf textures...

guy looks so miserable being smaller than the Imp

[Snakes]

The potentially inescapable invulnerability sphere pit in Map24 that will not only get you stuck, but can even cause a crash, was the first thing that came to mind.

[jmickle66666666]

yakfak said:

I still say that the worst error in Doom 2 is that they didn't double the size of the SS soldier at the same time as they doubled the Wolf textures...

guy looks so miserable being smaller than the Imp

I remember thinking this was super surreal when I first played those levels. Plus the fact they were places in groups of 4 most of the time, it was such a strange way of representing the older game. It felt so disconnected. (I think it's great, but definitely an issue)

Also coupled with the fact that the exit rooms used the MARBFACEs, and the secret walls opened up like doors. Obviously the latter is an engine issue, but again these just added to the surreal nature of these levels. Imagine the exit switch scaled up too, it would be so comically huge.

[BaronOfStuff]

Snakes said:

The potentially inescapable invulnerability sphere pit in Map24 that will not only get you stuck, but can even cause a crash, was the first thing that came to mind.

The way this bit's set up is so unbelievably stupid and unintuitive.

[Krazov]

40oz said:

I disagree. Not that the level was adjusted or that its not gamebreaking, but it is an error, and a blatantly obvious one at that. It shouldn't really have been ignored for a final release of the game. Especially so early in the game. I'd probably argue that its the closest to "the worst error in the IWAD" than anything else posted so far because its so easily noticeable and very easy to fix. How did something like that get overlooked?

As a frontend developer I have encountered many such bugs. Sometimes it was a bug that was there since the beginning of the page and not one of thousand users daily has noticed. Such situations just happens. After they started meddling with complete and tested maps such small things could have been overlooked. But it’s like, um, my opinion.

I could agree though that it the worst error in the meaning “theoretically easily avoidable.”

[VGamingJunkie]

Hitting that nuclear waste container with that Former Sargent stuck next to it felt like.... -shades- shooting fish in a barrel.

[axdoomer]

Doom V.1666 MAP18 had a huge untextured wall that the player could see through.

[Foxpup]

axdoom1 said:

Doom V.1666 MAP18 had a huge untextured wall that the player could see through.

Impossible. The wall can't be untextured because it doesn't even exist. It's an open sector. How did they let that slip through?

Speaking of version 1.666, MAP29 had no co-op starts. A real showstopper.

[LogicDeLuxe]

If we count outdated versions, there are a lot show stopping errors.

Also in E3M9 v1.666, one sector had the same tag as the lowering bridge, which became an illegal sector type when triggered. That was quite annoying.
That map error was there from the beginning on, but it was harmless in v1.2 and earlier since the action type behaved slightly different back then.

[axdoomer]

Foxpup said:

Impossible. The wall can't be untextured because it doesn't even exist. It's an open sector. How did they let that slip through?

It's an open sector then. http://i.imgur.com/kJb3FOU.png

[T-Rex]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the teleporter that doesn't work in Doom 2 Map 17 in single-play. It's in the room with the caged archvile. There's a teleporter pad on the lava pit that's supposed to warp you into the cavern behind the slime pit of the blue door area, but it doesn't because the teleporter itself was tagged multiplayer.

[scifista42]

@T-Rex: It's fixed in version 1.9.

[xit-vono]

I'd like to mention the stairs bug in TNT map21 which can cause demos to desync apparently.

[Tarnsman]

Plutonia and TNT have VPOs in them, I think things that crash the game qualify as the worst errors.

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

If we count Hexen, there's the notorious breakable script past the axe key door on Gibbet that can make things unwinnable if you do things "wrong".

[joe-ilya]

That wierd glide outside the map boundaries in E2M5.

[scifista42]

@joe-ilya: Do you have source for that E2M5 thing?

EDIT: Oh, you were probably talking about the void glide in E2M6. That's not a mapping error, but an engine exploit.