More goodies from Romero (DoomEd source, maps, graphics)

[Marnetmar]

Has anyone converted the Doom 1 maps yet?

[Kizoky]

My life is complete. These stuff hanging around just made my day better.

Now the only thing I really want is the Heretic, and Hexen beta resources. I don't know If Romero still has it, but It would be interesting

[Quasar]

Cire said:

Quasar: Doesn't 3D Realms have a Strife beta of some kind on that old beta CD they've showed a screenshot of?

That would be really weird since earlier interviews by Rich Fleider seemed to indicate that Apogee (the only connection I can imagine 3D Realms getting a copy of Strife through) was no longer the publisher by the time there was anything approaching a functional beta of Strife.

But maybe the history is more complicated than he remembers or has let on, who knows.

[Cire]

See this thread: https://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8426
A few posts down, Joe Siegler said: "Strife wasn't going to be an Apogee game - it's just there. I was one of Strife's testers (in a minor way), I just put it there."
And then: "No, everything that's in there is a demo or game or build of some sort. How playable is a different story."

[Quasar]

Cire said:

See this thread: https://forums.3drealms.com/vb/showthread.php?t=8426
A few posts down, Joe Siegler said: "Strife wasn't going to be an Apogee game - it's just there. I was one of Strife's testers (in a minor way), I just put it there."
And then: "No, everything that's in there is a demo or game or build of some sort. How playable is a different story."

"Wasn't going to be" contradicts Rich and other stories I've heard, but that was back when it was a Cygnus title too. Either way, devs from unrelated companies sending people stuff to test and look at I guess wasn't that unusual back then, and maybe even still isn't, NDAs be damned ;)

[DeathevokatioN]

Thanks Romero, this is really awesome of you.

[Cire]

I Think 3D Realms are still in possession of that CD. Would it be possible for Night Dive to get the Strife prototype stuff released, if there's anything interesting in that Strife folder? Or is there's NDA:s getting in the way for that?

[Dragonsbrethren]

It's so weird that these windows didn't make the cut:

http://www.doomworld.com/linguica/doom-textures/win.html
http://www.doomworld.com/linguica/doom-textures/wallr6.html

Early Downtown and Bloodfalls use them. They look really good.

[LogicDeLuxe]

Some observations:

The regular Episode 1, 2 and 3 maps are just what is in the IWAD. Pre-release versions of those would be most interesting for sure.
Episode 4 has some differences between the regular files and the ~ backups. Some slight last minute chances, I guess.

Slightly interestingly, there is a whole Doom 1 map set in the unused sub folder of the Doom 2 maps, which is a backup between Doom 1.2 and Doom 1.666, thus in a state we haven't seen yet, but probably no surprise in there.


In Doom 2, they changed most exists from a switch to a walkover. Only in MAP02, it is the other way around.

The secret in the center of MAP03 wasn't secret at all. One of the teleporters brings you right there, and near the end, the lower wall trigger also triggers the wall at the "secret" entrance. In the final version, the teleport target is still there, but the sector tag was removed.

The secret exit in MAP15 is missing.


The things.dsp for Doom 1 has completely different names for all the monsters than in Doom 2. That also explains the strange lump names for some monsters.

[kb1]

XCOPY said:

Well I compiled Doom II's maps, for anyone who cares.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/rdl50r86408aa95/d2maps.7z

(map01-map32)

extra maps (map33-map36, map33 being from the "old" folder)

http://www.mediafire.com/download/uzewda8g1xr4n99/d2extmaps.7z

How do I download the files? MediaFire says:
This file is currently set to private. When a resource is set to private by its owner, only the owner can access it. If you would like to request access to the file, please log in to your account.

Was that your intention? If so, then what work is actually required to compile the files into a WAD? (I haven't checked out John's files yet in detail.)

[scifista42]

I've been able to download XCOPY's wads yesterday. Maybe he took them down because of the copyright discussion on the previous page.

[betabox]

I'm only interested in his extramaps download link (second one), as I'm sure that one had the maps past 32 (like shitmap). Anyone can provide a link to that?

[scifista42]

buttspit said:

I'm only interested in his extramaps download link (second one),

That's the one I didn't download, otherwise I would link it to you now. :/

[Randy87]

Here's some.
Converted with doombsp from NextStep.

maps.7z

[General Rainbow Bacon]

Can someone compile all the unused textures and make a wad out of them?

[fraggle]

Original download links posted by Romero no longer work. Does someone have a copy of these they could upload somewhere? Interested in getting the exact files as he released them.

[Dragonsbrethren]

http://dragonsbrethren.slickproductions.org/files/doom/DoomEd.zip
http://dragonsbrethren.slickproductions.org/files/doom/doom-maps.zip
http://dragonsbrethren.slickproductions.org/doom/doom-textures.zip

[fraggle]

Thanks.

[boris]

fraggle said:

Actually, one of the reasons for wanting to get this up and running again is that it works very differently to fan-made Doom editors. Properties are applied to sectors and lines in DoomEd using something akin to a flood-fill algorithm. So in theory this could even be far more efficient to use than Doombuilder is.

Basically don't knock DoomEd, it may be far more awesome than you imagine :)

If I understand the info given on Doomwiki correctly, that flood-fill lets the user quickly paste sector properties to other sectors, right? I.e. you set the properties in some panel, and when you click in an space enclosed by lines' sector definition will be set. DB2/GZDB can paste properties, too.

Csonicgo said:

to be honest, romero's "flood fill" and "line only" method would help people like me in making maps. I hate the current way of having to juggle which sector is near each line, but with flood filling, all that goes away. I can draw my lines, then paint in my sectors, then throw on textures. how simple can it get?

Not sure if I understand you correctly, but isn't that pretty much exactly what DB2/GZDB does? Except for doing the flood-fill part automatically when the lines you draw form an enclosed space.

[fraggle]

boris said:

If I understand the info given on Doomwiki correctly, that flood-fill lets the user quickly paste sector properties to other sectors, right? I.e. you set the properties in some panel, and when you click in an space enclosed by lines' sector definition will be set. DB2/GZDB can paste properties, too.

I haven't got my port of DoomEd working to the extent that I can answer for certain, but I'll give my understanding of how it works. We're used to modal Doom editors - most editors have modes for editing linedefs, sectors, things and vertices separately. My understanding is that DoomEd doesn't have separate modes in the same way.

In most editors, to make a sector you draw several lines and then group those lines together to make a sector. Then in the sector editing mode you can click on a sector and edit its properties.

Instead with DoomEd, you draw the lines and then use a sort of flood-fill tool (like the flood fill tool in MS paint) to apply properties to the lines within the area where you've clicked. So if you've drawn some lines in a square shape and you fill inside the square, you've essentially set the properties for the sector inside those lines. I believe you can do the same thing for lines as well - eg. painting all the walls with the same texture. It sounds like a pretty nice system because it means that if you want to change properties for lots of different sectors you can do it very efficiently just with a few clicks.

If this still sounds confusing, here's one thing to understand (and this might sound deeply weird considering all the editors you've ever seen): I don't think DoomEd actually even has any concept of sectors. If you look at the file format it saves to (.DWD), all the sector properties (floor/ceiling texture/height, light level, etc.) are just properties of linedefs. Sectors get created automatically by the node builder when you build the level. In that hypothetical square room I just described, the sector that represents it only exists because each of the four linedefs that makes it up has the same properties attached to it.

[Fuzzball]

Makes you think really, if that is how it works (and I understand what you mean) editors over the years have been...in comparison to DoomEd...been doing it all wrong! :D :D :D :D

[Urban Space Cowboy]

Memfis said:

Hmmm, so was FIREBLU originally a photograph of a stone or something?

I think you're right! And then they went back to that stone texture to make the patch RW42_4...I feel dumb for not realizing this before...

[fraggle]

FuzzballFox said:

Makes you think really, if that is how it works (and I understand what you mean) editors over the years have been...in comparison to DoomEd...been doing it all wrong! :D :D :D :D

That's one way of looking at it. Given that the SECTORS lump is something that's only generated by the node builder, you might place it in the same category as the node data and other lumps that are never touched by hand.

The .DWD format just has lines, things and nothing else. There are actually advantages to doing it that way - for example you can never have a situation where your level contains unused vertices or unused sectors. If they're not attached to a line they don't exist.

There are also advantages in terms of parallel development, and I actually wonder if that's part of the reason it was designed that way. Suppose you have two people both working on a level at once. If they're using a version control system (like Git, but it could be something far more primitive), the VCS should be able to automatically merge the changes made by both people without any trouble. If there is a merge conflict it's trivial to resolve because the format is a text file that can be edited by hand.

I actually came up with a similar idea several years ago when UDMF was being designed, but it seems that Romero already invented it (deliberately, or not) 20 years ago, and did it better than me!

[Randy87]

I've got the hang of using most of DoomEd over the past 2 days.
It's been incredibly tiresome. Almost everything must be done manually.
When you create sectors, they do not automatically attach to neighbors.
You must manually select the connecting lines and mark them as two sided and passable.
Altering pre-existing architecture requires separating vertices, moving the vertices, drawing new lines, and then "fusing" the vertices.
AFAIK, lines do not contain references to sectors. This is handled by doombsp. So certain special effects are out.

If there is interest, I can put up a pre-packaged VM for fiddling.

[betabox]

scifista42 said:

That's the one I didn't download, otherwise I would link it to you now. :/

Ah, damn. Anyone happen to download that second one? Maybe I need to pull a Doom_Trooper on XCopy.

[Dragonsbrethren]

Randy87 said:

If there is interest, I can put up a pre-packaged VM for fiddling.

Please do, if it's not too much trouble :)

[fraggle]

Randy87 said:

I've got the hang of using most of DoomEd over the past 2 days.
It's been incredibly tiresome. Almost everything must be done manually.
When you create sectors, they do not automatically attach to neighbors.

Are you sure you're doing it right? See my comments above.

[Randy87]

fraggle said:

Are you sure you're doing it right? See my comments above.

I can't be sure without more testing, I have yet to see a means of joining sectors.
The sector get/fill functions also does not seem to set textures or anything other than sector properties. It's very simple.
It didn't come with a manual, so who knows?

I have a VM set up and am currently writing instructions on installation and basic unix commands, as I cannot include IWADs.
Hopefully they will be clear.

Maybe someone else can figure more out.

[Randy87]

Here is a NextStep 3.3 VMWare "machine" with DoomEd preinstalled and configured.
NextStep 3.3 with DoomEd.7z

Hopefully the instructions are clear, and it works.
The only way I've tried moving maps out of the VM is by floppy image.
Map testing can be done in NextStep if you install NeXTDoom. (but it sucks)

Who will be the first community member to make a map with DoomEd?

[GreyGhost]

fraggle said:

Original download links posted by Romero no longer work. Does someone have a copy of these they could upload somewhere? Interested in getting the exact files as he released them.

Here's another set of links (to my MediaFire account), just in case.

DoomEd.zip
doom-maps.zip
doom-textures.zip