More goodies from Romero (DoomEd source, maps, graphics)

[Quasar]

fraggle said:

Would be nice, though I'm pretty doubtful he has anything. It's clear that he has a CD with a copy of the Doom development tree but I wouldn't expect that to include the other games. Id published Heretic and Hexen but it's not clear how much they were involved in their development.

Certainly we've heard that Raven used NeXT machines to make their Doom engine games too, and that they had the Doom source and development tools to do that. But were they even based in the same city?

We do know the extent of involvement, actually. John Romero was the executive producer for both games and had a degree of creative control (or suggestive power, at the least - see how he vetoed the design of the JustifierWraithverge) over the content, as well as was in charge of stuff like dropping the demo versions on the internet. This means at the least we can assume he was sent several beta builds of those games. In fact I think the Hexen source makes reference to a couple of such builds but I could be thinking of something else of course.

And no. Raven has always been based in Madison, WI.

[Danfun64]

fraggle said:

I should make clear that I'm not attacking Danfun.

Thanks for the apology. Now I wait for Sodaholic to do the same...
I think I should make it known to Doomworld that while I do have a sense of humor and am occasionally sarcastic, sometimes I have trouble telling if people are being serious or not...

[BahdKo]

Damn, well that's interesting stuff.

Ledge-camping on map1 could have perhaps been an eternal affair, if I see what I think I'm seeing.

Yeah, archvile on map 3, that would have been a tad early.

Oh... Hi John Romero, if you're still reading this thread! That sure is a big release of stuff. Even released the editor. People will be chewing on this for a LONG time!

[fraggle]

This vaguely fits into the topic of DoomEd and Doom's development so I figured I'd ask here.

What level do we think Tom Hall is working on here?

[SYS]

kb1 said:

It breaks my heart when my dual-core 3.2GHz Win7 work PC is blown away by my single-core 2GHz XP machine, because of all the bloat. It's getting too complex for me to prevent all of these background jobs/tasks from running, just to try to get some performance these days.

If you have the privilege to access, run msconfig and you can select what services and programs will run at startup. There's a convenient "hide all microsoft services" so you can mass disable everything not essential to windows.

[scifista42]

fraggle said:

What level do we think Tom Hall is working on here?

This is how the picture looks like with minimum brightness and nearly maximum contrast applied. Not much of a giveaway.

[Gez]

fraggle said:

This vaguely fits into the topic of DoomEd and Doom's development so I figured I'd ask here.

What level do we think Tom Hall is working on here?

http://screenshots.filesnetwork.com/18/potd/1032359031.jpg

I get a 403: Forbidden instead of usable pixels, so I have no idea.

[fraggle]

Gez said:

I get a 403: Forbidden instead of usable pixels, so I have no idea.

Moved it to imgur instead. See here.

[Linguica]

Yeah it's difficult to make anything out...



Something like that? I can't find anything it would match up with though.

[fraggle]

Cropping to just the DoomEd window and doing equalize in the Gimp helped show up some details, but Ling's hand-annotated version is much clearer.



It looks like there are two more pillars at the bottom of the window though.

[Ledillman]

(1) Probably an ealry version of some E2 map Tom was working on, (2) or some never released map because they scraped it.

if (1) is correct then maybe an alpha version of Doom contains parts of it...

[40oz]

I looked through all of E2 and E3 and couldn't really find a match. It doesn't look like Refueling Base either. Those thin round pillars definitely look like something Tom would make if any of his previous maps are anything to go by.

Speaking of Tom Hall, does DoomEd have anything that would hint to why Toms maps all look like they would fit snugly in a square box?

[Jaws In Space]

40oz said:
Speaking of Tom Hall, does DoomEd have anything that would hint to why Toms maps all look like they would fit snugly in a square box? [/B]

Tom Hall drew up the above image for the Doom 0.5 Alpha & if you look at the Doom Alpha maps in an editor you will notice that there is a border wall on the outside of all Tom Halls maps to give the appearance that that those are the exterior walls. The building on the map called Han would eventually become E2M7 & SD would eventually become E2M2, both of those buildings appear as squares on the Alpha intermission screen. Waste would become E2M3 & Contr would become E3M3, if you look at those maps in the Alpha their shapes match up perfectly whit how the building looks on the intermission screen map.

[Buckshot]

had to tilt my monitor to all sorts of weird angles to get that negative effect going... but this is all I could make out in lines

and the box to far right may just be the camera or distortion and not actually a box, but about the same as what was posted above by others. Hard to tell with all the grain and scratches

http://i58.tinypic.com/2chw6c8.jpg

[Dragonsbrethren]

BahdKo said:

Yeah, archvile on map 3, that would have been a tad early.

I wouldn't read too much into it. The /old directory has Gantlet in the MAP18 slot.

https://tcrf.net/Prerelease:Doom_II:_Hell_on_Earth_(PC)#Early_Progression

At that point they were probably just cranking out maps without too much thought to progression.

[Buckshot]

whats the best "data recovery" tool (not sure if undelete) is all that great that anyone can recommend?

...just out of curiosity. yes, its relevant to this thread in a way.

[axdoomer]

Buckshot said:

whats the best "data recovery" tool (not sure if undelete) is all that great that anyone can recommend?

Try Recuva.

[Buckshot]

axdoom1 said:

Try Recuva.

looks like that be the tool I need. thanks fine sir.

had to get a pcix card for scsi interface.

welp.. here goes nothing. wish me luck.

[chungy]

Recuva is unlikely to work for NeXTSTEP disks.

Take a full image of the hard disk (it's best to not modify the original disk), and see if Linux can mount any of the file systems. I'm not sure what NeXT used, but if it's UFS, it should work. Failing that, PhotoRec might be able to get something.

[fraggle]

Don't run it directly on the hard drive. Try to dump the whole drive to a file and then run whatever tools you want to try on that copy. If it's an old hard drive, then you might not be able to rely on it working for long.

[Randy87]

Yes, do not do anything with the drive (Don't boot the machine and play with it). May be best to pop it out, hook it up to a machine with linux and use dd to create an image. Then the file recovery can begin.

[Urban Space Cowboy]

fraggle said:
years ago I'm sure I remember that Romero gave a friend of mine a copy of the original, undistorted version of the "To win the game you must kill me..." sample, on one occasion when he came on IRC.

Robert Prince used to host workstages for that sample on his site. The page they were linked from is mirrored on the Wayback Machine, but unfortunately the files themselves aren't. Anyone have "bossit01.au", "bossit03.au", and/or "bossit04.au" lying around somewhere? I'm afraid I don't.

Utilities - we already have dmutils.zip that has the source code to various utilities used in Doom's development, and the recent levels dump included the BSP builder and "DoomPrint" sources. I doubt there's much more but you never know.

Gez's dmutils.zip review a few years ago mentioned that DoomEd, the Fuzzy Pumper Palette Shop, and DoomBSP still weren't released. Since the first and last have now seen the light of day, that leaves the Fuzzy Pumper Palette Shop, and it may be of trivial use at best since I gather it's for converting from NeXT-specific formats. Still won't complain if it ever gets out!

[Buckshot]

ehhh... running into pci scsi card detection issues. stupid adaptec 2960 scsi pci card in my desktop doesn't play nice with uefi.

the drive uses a 50 pin adapter. I'm fairly positive I've got the termination set correctley.. but the card just isn't detecting it.

drive spins up fine, but I'm going to proceed ever so cautiously to not damage

[Buckshot]

help me figure out what I'm doing wrong here:


https://youtu.be/Bh8Sm7KNBAM

side note: if I find anything relevant or cool on that drive, either how it is now or by trying to recover any data that may have been wiped via a reformat, I will ask for Romero's permission to post it.

Of course he said there's no Id-relevant data on there. in the off chance there is (or even if it's personal data)... nothing gets released without his approval. I will tell you if I found anything of interest... I just can't share it without his permission. Hope everyone understands that. Pissing off or getting romero on any other ex-Id staff into trouble is what I'd look as soon to avoid.

The official word is there is not. so it's improbable. but not impossible. guess we'LL see soon enough.

side note 2: the nextstation has been opened before. plastic clips that hold down the case to the bottom have lomg since crqcked off (these are in the inside)ram has apparently been added. the hardrives screws look like they've been unscrewed before. the drive appears to be matching the date of manufacture of the system (1992).

side note 3: why does it feel like I'm performing an alien autopsy right now?


UPDATE: DAHHHH. it is UEFI that's screwing up the adaptec scsi card.

right here:

http://ask.adaptec.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/17087/~/adaptec-controllers-and-uefi-motherboards

guess it'll have to wait till I get to work tommorow to a non uefi machine.

[GreyGhost]

In case you haven't already found it, here's some useful info on the drive. I'd suggest you set the Write Protect jumper.

[Ledillman]

So, um... yeah, just messing around the editor:

http://i.imgur.com/Vcptji9.png

http://i.imgur.com/Qxm7BzZ.png
Just my perspective on what was it.
I'm not done yet, and i'm adding an "alpha" style with the textures, not sure if the floor should have flat14 but i'm still messing around with them.

[Buckshot]

GreyGhost said:

In case you haven't already found it, here's some useful info on the drive. I'd suggest you set the Write Protect jumper.

will do. good find!!

and yep... it's defintley the original hdd that's in this next. same model:
http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=717

and for those interested... Internal and external shots of Romero's nextstation:


http://s11.postimg.org/7k9yuei03/20150507_233709.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/63ygc9f37/20150507_233731.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/tgwhurv6r/20150507_233800.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/w8b67n4bn/20150507_233845.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/o098mncf7/20150507_233851.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/n9gigva1v/20150507_233905.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/6e5yvltpf/20150507_233930.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/f2oipajz7/20150507_234011.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/pa721p677/20150507_234125.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/sehpyhmzn/20150507_234140.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/rwhz4w80z/20150507_234146.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/bzj786fmr/20150507_234156.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/ftcnhbwyr/20150507_234203.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/llcroh6sj/20150507_234210.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/aobfzpk0z/20150507_234219.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/jynk38uqr/20150507_234226.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/3q7btrlwj/20150507_234240.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/63p9ks0bn/20150507_234259.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/ceuh171k3/20150507_234308.jpg
http://s11.postimg.org/z8nfafq8z/20150507_234321.jpg

[Buckshot]

Ran through a cloned drive image with Fraggle (Many thanks for the crash course on Unix/Linux, Fraggle, who spent most of Friday morning and evening going over a walkthrough with me)... mounted the image, exactly as it was listed... no data other than just system image. just NextStep OS on it an nothing more. I also emulated the image in "Previous", a Nextstation emulator, just to confirm. Also used ddrescue/photorec/scalpel/testdrive (all forensic-grade recovery apps) tools under Linux on the drive itself, and came out as the only partition that was on the drive. Course most of the system file dates are from 1993/1994 (likely when the drive was imaged), and the last accessed date from log files was all the way back in October 1998 and last boot date from the image status was from 1999.

Fraggle found some device that had been connected at one point in the past to the machine listed as /dev/sda1 and it was called "Monster", using 4.3BSD filesystem, but who knows what that was, if anything relevant at all.


Had to check though, lol. I think anyone's curiosity of such a nextstation of that kind of origin would led them to do the same.

Sweet OS, btw, been playing around with the image in Previous for the past few days. Was pretty unique and very cool. Nice seeing how it went from Workstation grade awesomness and then later turned into consumer-grade OS with Mac OS X. I highly recommend grabbing Previous and play around with NextStep OS if you haven't, you can emulate by system type (turbo, color, turbo/color, standard slab, monochrome, Cube/Turbo)

Only question I have left is the executables/source for NextStep OS for DOOM. I mean, if it was developed on this kind of systems.... and ported to DOS, then does anyone know of doom executables for NextStep OS?

**CORRECTION EDIT**
I stated it appeared test drive couldn't locate any old ufs partitions on the drive. that was incorrect... test drive did report finding (4) partitions prior using UFS by searching deeper under different os types and setting ufs manually as the filesystem. unfortunately, testdrive only allows me to recover these to the drive directly by erasing the current partition, and does not allow me to export that prior partition to a dd image (only current can be exported). to not risk corrupting the drive, I will not restore and previous ufs partition information/files on those partitions as its risky.

[Maes]

Buckshot said:

Only question I have left is the executables/source for NextStep OS for DOOM. I mean, if it was developed on this kind of systems.... and ported to DOS, then does anyone know of doom executables for NextStep OS?

...weren't they contained in some of the newly released material? I'm fairly sure there were some binaries in there. Those would truly be "Doom the way id did it" or "Doom The Way It Actually Was" ;-)

[Vorpal]

Any chance of getting our hands on that dd image?