The DWmegawad Club plays: Valiant

[Cynical]

Wait, so for certain complevels, there's no predefined behavior on certain emulation settings, and it goes to the toggles at the option screen? Bizarre.

At any rate, Skillsaw has said that there should be no ghosts in Valiant.

EDIT: Looking at the source code, does that mean that Boom 2.0.2 didn't have compatibility options at all, thus why -cl 9 always has the same behavior?

[Memfis]

Boom has some gameplay changing options too, for example you can enable weapon recoil (makes shooting move you backwards a bit).

[Never_Again]

Cynical said:

Wait, so for certain complevels, there's no predefined behavior on certain emulation settings

Of course there is, and it differs from one complevel to another. On "-complevel 11" all compat options from the menu, except comp_zombie, are off by default.

Cynical said:

At any rate, Skillsaw has said that there should be no ghosts in Valiant.

There won't be on "-complevel 11" with default settings.

Cynical said:

EDIT: Looking at the source code, does that mean that Boom 2.0.2 didn't have compatibility options at all, thus why -cl 9 always has the same behavior?

Boom v2.02 has orig_doom_compatibility and demo_insurance, and some of its new features, like monster_remember and player_bobbing, were optional as well.

[Demon of the Well]

Ah, weapon recoil, I remember that, I recall that it used to be on by default in some old versions of the original PrBoom. I've never encountered a single player who professed to like the feature, heh, no wonder you never hear about it anymore.

Anyway, the source of all the confusion is that the copy of PrBoom+ version 5.2.1.4 that I DLed from the thread's OP in order to play Valiant with apparently had the 'arch-vile resurrects invincible ghosts' option flagged as 'on' without my manually adjusting it in any way, which the more I think about it is probably just some CFG overwrite issue--PrBoom+ is stable/reliable enough a program from version to version that I usually just replace the old version with the new one in my main folder when updating, and I'll reacquire old versions and give them their own directories in those odd instances where having them may be useful.

[Never_Again]

Demon of the Well said:

Ah, weapon recoil, I remember that, I recall that it used to be on by default in some old versions of the original PrBoom. I've never encountered a single player who professed to like the feature, heh, no wonder you never hear about it anymore.

OTOH, there are still some players out there that prefer player_bobbing off. Closet skaters all of them, no doubt.

Demon of the Well said:

Anyway, the source of all the confusion is that the copy of PrBoom+ version 5.2.1.4 that I DLed from the thread's OP in order to play Valiant with apparently had the 'arch-vile resurrects invincible ghosts' option flagged as 'on' without my manually adjusting it in any way, which the more I think about it is probably just some CFG overwrite issue

It's "most certainly" rather than "probably". comp_vile was off by default as far back as v2.03beta (April 2000).

Demon of the Well said:

--PrBoom+ is stable/reliable enough a program from version to version that I usually just replace the old version with the new one in my main folder when updating, and I'll reacquire old versions and give them their own directories in those odd instances where having them may be useful.

What instances are those? Besides the two partial-v1.2-compat demos I did with v2.5.0.6 that play back with nothing else, I don't think there are any such cases not covered by "-emulate xxx", "-force_xxx" and "-complevel xx".

[Demon of the Well]

Never_Again: The only old version of PrBoom+ I've retained since the last time I reinstalled my operating system appears to be a copy of 2.5.0.2, apparently something involving longdays.wad (and some demo files for it), by Deadall/Eternal. Reading the sourceforge changelog for the port, it appears to be precisely the kind of issue that could be easily handled via the -emulate parameter, however.

Map 22 -- Spiraling Into Nether - 102% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
The action in the FDA ends at around the 11 minute mark, the rest is just me blithering around looking for and eventually finding the sole secret. Oh, and there's a weird ghostly lost soul (if you'll pardon the redundant expression) in the end of this one, too. Me and my compflags!

Very striking setting in this one, the juxtaposition of black void and bright burning brimstone (with even brighter neon striplights casting rays into the drear) works beautifully, and the liberal usage of impaled bodies and other gruesome props completes the scene. Short defiles between bounding walls of necrotic flesh notwithstanding, pretty much every place you stop to stand in this level is full of fascinating vistas over the complex concatenation of pathways and islands of flesh eternally flash-frying in the levitating sea of fire, with the cancerous orange glow of the fluorescent void-beacons marking out the general path. No significant performance hits for me here or in the next map in either PrBoom+ or Eternity, incidentally, although ZDoom (and GZDoom in software mode) do seem to struggle a bit with these two maps for one reason or another.

The rough theme to the action here is soft space restriction. Few of the islands and relatively narrow pathways have much in the way of guardrails, and a combination of monsters pouring fire on you from distant vantages (usually 'trons and imps, as per the Valiant norm) and Skillsaw's liberal deployment of arachnorbs and other airborne malcontents from the spawn-pads littering the hellscape regularly make demands on your dodging and target prioritization abilities, with more precision required than has generally been typical of the mapset given the limited footing. Ironically, the most open ground that you'll have to work with at any given time is presented by area accessed via the northwestern arm of the spiral, where most of the solid ground melts into the lava as soon as you set set foot into the area. The space restriction here thus shifts to a time restriction, where you have free reign over the area, but only for as long as your radsuit holds out. As is so often the case with these maps, though, provided you don't panic you have every chance to win on your first attempt, as Skillsaw has once again showered the playing field with healing items and quality ammo pickups, enough to compensate for quite a few mistakes as you get a feel for the level (e.g. note that I good-at-Doomed myself AGAIN here in that northwestern section, and yet was still able to recover and win out). Deceptively short, too--each area is essentially a quick one-off blitz of combat, and while you can tackle them in any order, the player's actual itinerary doesn't seem like it would affect the balance of play in any given area very much, considering that the player is fully tooled up in the central hub before setting out, and none of the arms is particularly stingy on the resource front relative to the others.

I kind of like the balance dynamic here, it's a level that requires precision to handle its scenarios in an aesthetically pleasing way, but also subsidizes sloppy play to a certain extent (especially if you can find the secret in a timely manner, unlike myself). Seems like the sort of level that's most fun on repeat playthroughs, in that regard.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 23 -- Genocide Motor - 103% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
Feels like a continuation of map 22, or perhaps a parallel dimension version of the same level. The setting and theme are much the same, although much of Genocide Motor takes place on some somewhat larger islands than in Spiraling Into Nether (large enough to bear a few large metal towers, at any rate), as is the approach to combat, again focusing on space restriction, although in this case said restriction is occasionally more hardlined, prosecuted via guardrails and otherwise enclosed arenas. Hell, I even spent a similar amount of quiet downtime sniffing out the secrets near the end, and these were generally uncovered in much the same way as in the previous map (e.g. by making some calculated guesses and taking expeditions into the phantasmal floating lava floe).

The non-linear/choose your own adventure element returns as well, although this time the order in which you explore areas can have a significant impact on your experience. Again there is a central nexus of sorts (the island with the 'Abandon All Hope' tower where you begin the level) littered with an array of teleport pads that shuttle you off to the different self-contained setpiece islands comprising most of the gameplay. What is not immediately clear is that the outer ring of pads all lead to technically optional areas where you can collect weapons and other useful items (by paying a toll in blood, both your own and your enemies'), while the inner ring of pads, on the nexial tower itself, lead to the three floating strongholds where the three skull-keys that you need to escape this strange realm are found. In my FDA I think I started with a couple of the optional areas and then tried one of the inner teleporters (leading to the red key's multistaged arena, IIRC) before grasping the general scheme of things, and so I did some fights without the aid of the plasma gun yet had the rocket launcher from essentially the very beginning; a pistol-starting player who tries teleporters in a different order (and there is very little visual distinction or other indication as to which might be good starting points) will likely have a very different experience than mine, which I suppose is probably the map's main virtue.

As aforesaid, while many of the main fights take place in constricted spaces and/or see the player initially backed into a dead end by design (e.g. the teleporter assault on the southern beacon-gantries, or both the introductory and concluding fights on the observation towers to the west), overall I think that battles in this map are generally less chaotic than in the previous one, particularly where the element of projectile-hell is concerned, meaning that even more than in that map these encounters tend to bank on their ability to instill panic in order to cow and overwhelm the player. I guess the headgames didn't work very well on me this time around, and so I didn't struggle much with this one (and I only MILDLY good-at-Doomed myself once this time!); if you keep a cool head, you'll find that the initially inhospitable terrain tends to handicap the monster squads more than it does Valiantguy, allowing you to bring your artillery to bear with devastating effect if you choose your moment well.

[SyntherAugustus]

Level 23

Cool music (Memento Mori?) and platform islands again! yay!

This level really promotes aggressive gameplay. Also, as DotW said, you might want to get some guns before heading upwards into the key areas. Thankfully, the weapon areas are presented to the player first, so the switch hugging distracted type player will probably notice it first.

[Surreily]

Episode 4
The first map in the episode is very... orange. The use of recolored textures in "The Popes of Roam" makes it look very unique. Gameplay involves avoiding some cyberdemons as you search for ammunition and flip switches to reveal more areas and monsters. Ammo was very limited - infighting played a very important role in getting 100% kills. Thankfully, the secret area revealed lots of super-mancubi (or whatever they're called) that were able to do some decent damage and finish off most of the cyberdemons for me.

The orange theme persists in the next map, "Swept into Immolation". Here, the player is surrounded on all sides by monsters firing from various ledges. As more progress is made into the map, additional areas open up, revealing even more nasty horrors. The huge area at the end was awesome - having to carefully use the radiation suits while defeating a huge horde of enemies was lots of fun! One of the more challenging maps in my opinion.

Things get a bit more hellish in "Skindustrial Zone". As the name implies, there's lots of skin textures mixed in with the lava and metal themes. Much like the final map of the previous episode, we encounter another arch-vile trap where we must blow up barrels before becoming overwhelmed. There's also a spider mastermind in here too, which I was stupid enough to fight without using the invisibility sphere, but I somehow survived. Great stuff.

The skin and lava theme continues in the next map, "Spiraling into Nether", where the player is given three choices of direction. Each path has its own challenge, and they cannot be returned from until the challenge is complete. The visuals are amazing - the whole map is in a single 'room', and the action takes place atop several flesh islands, which are themselves atop a series of lava islands. I did drop some FPS at a couple spots in the map, but it wasn't too noticeable.

The next map, "Genocide Motor" uses the same themes as the previous. Here, there is the main area (consisting of a huge tower) and six smaller areas, each with their own challenges. Upon reading some other reviews here, I learned that this map plays very differently from a pistol start, but because I came into this map with tons of weapons and ammo, my experience was vastly different. Still, it was a good map, but I prefer open exploration maps.

The episode concludes with "None More Merciless", a huge mountain map with several towering structures thrown in. This map showcases Valiant's beautiful mountain scenery at its finest. The author's attention to detail really struck me with this one - for example, in one area, 144 flats were created to make a huge pentagram! The final area introduces a new enemy, and I am was surprised to be seeing new foes this late into the WAD. I did want to go back and find secrets, but much like the previous episode's final map, I was stuck in the final area again.

Overall, another fine episode with a beautiful hellish theme. The visual were beautiful while the enemy encounters were exciting and challenging. My favorite maps were "Skindustrial Zone", "Spiraling into Nether", and "None More Merciless", while my least favorite was "The Popes of Roam" (but only because its gameplay wasn't really my thing - its visuals were fantastic). Only one more episode to go! ...Well, actually, I've already completed the final episode, but I will post about that at the end of the month.

[scifista42]

Map24 - “None More Merciless”

First area - circular staircases. Simple, but well implemented idea, and I liked it. Second area - mountainside. Beautiful to look at, very spacious, which (again) allowed the player to bypass fights relatively easily, and this inefficiency irked me slightly. Third area - lava run + catwalk + red key trap. Visually much better than gameplay-wise - I thought the challenge was too trivial, not really inspired. Fourth area - Cybruiser halls. Good intro to the enemy. The fights were fun, not too difficult on HNTR, which I find OK.

Previous maps in this episode mostly seemed harder than this map did (all on HNTR). This one looked fancy as all of them, but I felt that it lacked direction in terms of efficiency of the architecture to pose challenge. Many of the setpieces were kind of trivial. Maybe rescaling/tweaking certain parts of the map would improve its gameplay, even if negatively affect visuals (?). I would personally go for it, but skillsaw is a better mapper than me and I trust him. This map was enjoyable anyway.

[Demon of the Well]

Sounds like you should step the difficulty back up to HMP, Sci. If the game is almost never taking you out of your comfort zone at least a little as far as the demands it makes on your combat skills are concerned, I'd say you're probably a step too low, playing it a bit too safe. I do agree that this fourth episode has mostly seemed to get easier as it goes along, though, and I think I'd say that E3 made me sweat more overall. Of course, I never have been a proponent of the idea that a mapset needs to have a steady upward difficulty curve from map to map over its whole duration--spikes and valleys can be very compelling, if handled well.

Map 24 -- None More Merciless - 103% Kills / 75% Secrets - FDA
D'oh, I saw where that last (actually the first) secret was while watching the recording. It was on my screen for a few seconds, I just didn't see it at the time. Ah, well.

The conclusion to the Hell episode is one of the game's longest maps, and while it offers an aesthetically pleasing setting and its share of the John Woo-esque setpiece battles that the author is known for, I feel like it goes the extra mile and communicates a certain spirit of adventure, as well, by way of simultaneously reprising and unifying the salient features of the episode--rocky crags, cathedrals, dangerous brimstone lakes, and even a touch of the lava-void from the previous two maps. The most prominent features are the grand cathedral perched on a spire in the center of the fiery mountain's caldera and the brooding ritual pavilion to the south, site of untold millenia worth of sadistic sacrificial rites, and home to the red skull which seals the keep housing the nearest portal out of this realm. What really differentiates this setting from the previous E4 maps, I think, is the sense of traveling from place to place, in and around major landmarks, in pursuit of a goal that is made clear fairly early on--because you spend so much time in a handful of large areas, skirting around the peripheries of towering structures which loom over you even as you know you will be fighting it out within them eventually, it feels more like a map you've lived in by the time you're through. This contrasts with the concise, encounter-focused one-offs like Popes of Roam or the piecewise, 'modular' construction of hub/setpiece maps like Spiraling Into Nether and Genocide Motor, which see you hopping into and out of self-contained ideas with relatively little tying them together in a locational sense beyond the overarching aesthetic theme (which no one would deny is very striking, granted).

I guess all of that is a longwinded way of saying that I enjoyed the way the map was paced, it facilitated a pleasing blend of incidental combat (mostly in the hills and caves around the main buildings) and choreographed encounters (in said buildings themselves), and since I had to do most of the legwork in actually traveling to and fro and back again I felt like I got a stronger sense of location than from many of the previous maps. Nearly all of the maps in Valiant are aesthetically pleasing on a superficial level--very 'screenshot-friendly', you might say--and the architecture is generally well-suited to its intended purpose, but I think capturing that ephemeral sense of place goes beyond pretty colors and attractive shapes. 'None More Merciless' succeeds in achieving this through its use of foreshadowing (e.g. the darksomely radiant grand cathedral towering above you as you climb up the caldera), thematic reprisal (e.g. emerging onto the mountaintop via the little lava-void preamble recalling the previous maps), and by dropping in unexpected little twists here and there, e.g. the collapsing path on the initial approach to the ritual pavilion, dropping you into the lava (sans radsuit!) and requiring you to dash around in a panic looking for a way out, which ends up depositing you smack into the middle of another bad situation, all this in contrast to the relatively sedate few minutes en route to the area.

This sense of contrast and pacing over the duration is very important in an adventure map like this, given that the style tends to be somewhat less suited to constant intense combat and very precise setpiece battles, and this map is no different, really--lots of incidental combat with snipers and such outside of the main buildings, and some fairly slowballed encounters within them, where available space and resources favor the player. What really drives this home is that the BFG is optional but not hidden, protected by a relatively straightforward cyberdemon fight; again, the focus is more on the sense of progression in this case than it is on minutely-detailed combat-puzzles or the like. It does go for a bit of an upset at the end with the surprise introduction of the cybruiser, who will first make your acquaintance in an uncomfortably intimate setting. These guys are the Baron replacements, they move slow but hit really fucking hard, and tend to appear in squads--kind of like being periodically accosted by groups of midget cyberdemons, if you will. Interestingly, they are fairly fragile as far as HP goes, but also appear to be immune to splash damage, making the RL a less viable measure against them than against most other foes. I'm writing this after the fact, of course...I don't think I started realizing some of their less overt attributes until midway through the final episode, but still: point is, they're introduced in a fairly sudden, high-pressure situation, and so make their first impression as a climactic battle, again underscoring how successful this map is with pacing.

[mouldy]

Map24 - “None More Merciless”

Nice end to the episode, epic journey through some vast scenery ending in a climactic battle with the new rocket barons. By that point I had the bfg so made short work of the finale, but that suits me fine. I still left with zero secrets and 20 monsters missed somewhere, didn't feel like going back to check though. Depsite the impressive amount of meat in this map and some nasty surprises along the way, I didn't do too much dying. I think the trickiest part was the start when all the arachnorbs hound you through the circular staircases, once I got all the weapons I found most situations could be escaped by some quick thinking and brute force, and there was an abundance of rockets on hand to help speed things along. Think this has been the most fun episode so far maybe. I remember the next one being quite tricky..

[Pirx]

ok, so the last map of ep.2...

18 - crush depth

i had lots of fun playing this map, the first minutes were spent running circles around the

central pillar of the cave, resulting imediately in hell's finest going at each other. the

rest is skillsaw's standard triple key affair, but it's not obvious when you'Re exploring

that huge underground complex. the final ambush... i reserved the megasphere for that part,

guessing the hardest thing had yet to come, but would have died nevertheless in prboom. but

as i was using gzdoom, no ghost monsters came from the crusher? i didn'T see one.


and here episode 3 begins, markedly more difficult than the previous one:


19 - the popes of roam

didn'T we have something like that last month, map29 of d2reload? where a quartet of

cyberdemons hunts you over the place and you have to keep those dumb pigs out of the way,

or you're splattered. i ran like a headless chicken, not knowing the way, hitting all

switches, opened the exit door... and fell dead into the exit room, hit by a pyro. didn'T

even make a screenshot. what a "good at doom" moment.

i played the map again, it'S possible to have the cybs kill all other enemies and get them

weakened enough to finish them off.


20 - swept into immolation

a quake-ish castle (tan and dark brown stone, orange crosses) where picking up keys or

weapons (rocket launcher) triggers ambushes. those kamikazes are annoyingly loud, you

barely hear any other monster as long as there are around. getting the first 2 keys causes

the rocks around the castle to sink into the ground, revealing a hellish lava landscape

(and breaking immersion for me with mechanical noise). this has to be cleared up to exit

the map.


21 - skindustrial zone

a running start with revs and mancs right behind, but fortunately there's a rocket launcher

and a chaingun nearby. after mopping up the opposition you proceed into the buildings to

confront a mastermind in a radioactive cave, with a radsuit and an invis placed

conveniently nearby, and the barrel room where i rocketed all viles quickly and later tried

it the intended way, by blowing up the barrels - it works.

visually, skillsaw's hell style is refreshingly different from the usual fire and brimstone

or red rock and green marble. it's a mix of rusty metal, skin with pipes and glowing

elements which gives it an eerie look.


22 - spiraling into nether

an unreal hellish landscape, islands of light brown rock and skintech,

with tall, glowing antennas in a sea of lava and glowing barriers.


23 - genocide motor

a larger, meaner map 22. the fight for the red key is a chaos, there's so much crap flying around that you're bound to run into something.

the whole map forces you to move quickly, because two seconds later, something will hit the place you were standing. absolutely impressive visuals, my problem however was that it took me an eternity to find my way through it.


24 - none more merciless

you return from deep hell into a map that resembles quake2 with a sky apparently taken from that game, large buildings with steel supports and colorful windows much like the strogg flags. a fight in a kind of unholy cathedral where hordes of imps try to flush the player out of his cover and into the line of sight of some archviles. very nice caves with arachnotrons and orbs, it'S like they'Re living in there. the end pushes you again into the cybernetic realm with the introduction of the cybruiser or what that rocket shooting baron is called (again, run circles around them and they do your work)

[Demon of the Well]

Map 25 -- The Eagle Has Landed - 100% Kills / 50% Secrets - FDA, 1 Death (dat kamikaze guy)
I think this is the first (and last) time in Valiant I use the chainsaw for anything, and it's hardly the most 'intelligent' use of the weapon, at that....it occurs to me that the berserk pack has tended to be a non-factor as well, despite showing up in a number of the levels. Little bit of a shame, perhaps, but that's the nature of this particular game--even from pistol-starts, you spend 90% of your time armed to the teeth and dealing with crossfires, not the most melee-conducive of scenarios.

Anyway, if E4 reminds one heavily of Vanguard's Hell episode (although that resemblance did fade as E4 progressed), I reckon just about everyone that played Lunatic knows what they're in for here--miles of austere white moon-canyons, broadstroke directional lighting that's particularly pronounced outdoors, and lots of squeaky-clean silver & blue hi-techbases trimmed with hazard stripes. Lots and lots of hazard stripes. It's not as grim as certain other FPS depictions of a lunar setting (read: Duke3D), but it's a suitably dramatic backdrop for the endgame, and I'm sure players weary of the traditional 'final stage = Hell' convention will find the change of scenery refreshing. Another thing contributing to the different feel of this last episode is the music selection; while earlier episodes mostly featured the mellifluous musical stylings of members of the Doom community past and present, this final episode tends towards peppy, laserlit renditions of BGM tracks from SNES-era console action/fighting games, underscoring the somewhat more manic, horde-based action in many of these final missions.

That being said, the order of the day in 'The Eagle Has Landed' actually seems to be hitscan attrition, something relatively rare in this mapset, with much of the threat eliding from steadily mounting chip-damage from the hail of bullets and buckshot flying everywhere in and around the western gulch and central observation pods. The monster count of 191 on UV is more svelte than it may initially seem, since a sizable chunk of these are basic zombiemen, including a made-to-order teleporting battalion just begging to be mercilessly torn to gory shreds by your shiny new minigun. The more characteristic Valiant projectile-hell sets in a bit more on the eastern side, with mancubi, 'trons, and revenants raining polyglot death through and across the many windows and exposed walkways of the command pods, but for the most part it's the zombies that rule the day here. Explosive barrels also make what seems to be their largest showing since way back in map 14, although my inability to hit the broad side of a barn (or a lunar module...) meant that I failed to realize much of their killing potential on this runthrough.

Watching the demo, it seems that the level is actually a lot more compact than it seems by dint of its intelligent reuse of space and multi-tiered layout. Given my particular tastes, I guess these are the best sort of small maps for me--ones that are built small but run a bit long, if you know what I mean. I didn't notice while actually playing, but I also quite like the way the locations of the various keycards are visually telegraphed to the player, particularly the red card holding pride of place in the center of the northern command pod.

Solid episode introduction, a bit more 'conventional' in style and pace than the other openers (map 01 being unusually expansive for map 01, map 08's weird phys-ed exam concept, map 14's barrel gimmick, map 19's ruthless cyberdemon gangbang, etc.), and so perhaps not liable to be as memorable, but solid nonetheless.

Map 26 -- Blast Wave - 102% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
a.k.a. "Crossfire: The Map."

Set in and around another utilitarian research station (with flashy lime green haz-stripes!) nestled in a small crater on the lunar surface, in this one you run, and run, and run, and then run some more, lest you be simultaneously smacked upside the head by 30 different projectiles, half of them no doubt fired from the opposite end of the combat zone. While there's plenty of room to run and the layout flows surprisingly well given that many of its incidental paths are strictly one-way trips that terminate in a couple of teleporter pads floating in some harmful moon-juice (read: often you won't be able to simply reverse direction and return the way you came, due to various drop-offs and the like), it's not trivial--the nearest armor vest to the start point is somewhat inconvenient to reach (even when you know where it is), allowing the hitscanners peppered around the area to put quite a hurtin' on you as you do strafing runs of the northern module, softening you up and leaving you vulnerable to death by a stronger projectile originating from the southerly region.

Cybruisers reappear here after their conspicuous absence in the previous map, and they aren't quite as easy to steamroll as the dudes from the end of map 24, given your generally lighter armament. At this point in the playthrough I think my little overheated chipmunk brain had yet to grasp that these monsters are immune to splash damage, hence my persistent squandering of rockets on them (here's me while playing: "boy howdy, some SHIT arr-enn-GEE today, hyuk hyuk!"), leaving me wanting for explosive ordinance while cleaning out the periphery later. On that point, once you do manage to capture the northern module that you initially materialize in front of, the action in the map tends to peter out rapidly, with most of your remaining work limited to making a sweep of the southern crater rim to polish off the assholes sniping at you earlier. I did like the little red key fight, it seems Skillsaw's preferred way to use both cybruisers and the mad bombers is to suddenly drop them in your lap in hopes of eliciting a fatal double-take. By contrast, I found the final wave of opposition that appears when you breach one of the red-locked doors to be unsatisfying; it's a modest little fleet of arachnorbs, nothing more. The terrain here is excellent for a flying assault, I feel like using a fair few more 'norbs and maybe a nice complement of gasbags approaching from a different direction wouldn't have been untoward. Ah well, can't have it all.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP24: None More Merciless
100% kills, 3/4 secrets

After the two 'gather the keys in any order' lava island void maps, it's time for a longer linear map, this time making the way into a demonic chapel and a couple of other areas (continuing the skintek/metal theme). I actually found the opening area extremely frustrating, as I either kept falling into the lava or getting stuck by floating enemies and then quickly dispatched. I played with non-infinite heights on but for some reason flyers loooove to just barely bump into my head where I can't see or shoot them, but still get stopped; one of the reasons I hate cacodemons so damned much. Add to that the fact that the aracnorbs blend in with the SKINTEK texture and... yeah, took me a few attempts here, sad to say.

Anyways, once that nightmare was over with, it's a pretty nice approach around the rocky outskirts to the chapel, pretty easy combat for the most part. Looks great, and the interior is also really sweet (what painting is that?).

Unfortunately, after grabbing the yellow key, the rest of the map felt a bit flat to me, both visually and gameplay-wise. The final two setpieces are both pretty square and non-notable (aside from the bloody pentagram, which is great, but the surrounding area is really boring looking) and the combat is a bit ho-hum. Though I should give a shout-out to that random dick spectre placed in the ledge-run that I didn't see and got me killed because I thought it was a safe spot I could switch weapons at. The last area also sees the introduction of the Cybruisers, aka barons with rocket launchers (can't tell what the HP is, seems about equal to a regular baron). They don't really feel too special, honestly; I suppose they'll be easier to use than the larger Cyberdemon, but aside from that just feel like a baron that does more damage (compare to the pyroknights, which MUST be treated differently). Their walking sound just isn't as iconic as the cyberdemon, either.

Well, that's it for orange-land... time to move on to the moon!

[dobu gabu maru]

Any opinions on the megawad for next month? I'm gunning for Hellbound & Hell Revealed.

[scifista42]

We almost always play famous wads recently. I'd be up for selecting a few unknown/less-known episode wads and play them in succession. Maybe even some port-specific (like ZDoom-specific or other) wads for once. The more varied mixture of wads, the better. For example these:

The Classic Episode part 2 - The Singularity Complex (E1, ZDoom)
Beyond Horrible! (E2, Boom)
Incineration (E3, vanilla)
007: Licence to Spell DooM (E4, ZDoom)

[Memfis]

DTS-T
Vilecore
Armadosia v2
City of Doom Part 1 + Reticula Episode 1 + Osiris
30 random files from /idgames (less than 3.5 stars rating only)
Kmega1 + Eternally Yours
Real World + Real World 2
World of DETH
Master Levels + No Rest for teh Living
etc...

[TMD]

Memfis said:

DTS-T
Vilecore
Armadosia v2
City of Doom Part 1 + Reticula Episode 1 + Osiris
30 random files from /idgames (less than 3.5 stars rating only)
Kmega1 + Eternally Yours
Real World + Real World 2
World of DETH
Master Levels + No Rest for teh Living
etc...

Seconding DTS-T and Vilecore.

Maybe Ultimate Simplicity as well?

[AD_79]

lol DTS-T

this is gonna be good

[Magnusblitz]

MAP25: The Eagle Has Landed
100% kills, 2/2 secrets

Back to techbase land, this time with a lunar theme. Definitely feels like it has the most in common with Episode 1, not just because of the color scheme (though obviously the outside is greyer this time around) but also the general shape and design of the bases... I always love seeing curved, circular rooms, and I really like the (oddly lumpy) lift by the red door for some reason. I suppose curves are still novel enough for me in the Doom engine.

As Demon says, this is a pretty 'traditional' type map for the opener, unlike a lot of the other openers which have been a bit more experimental. But still very solid, with the usual setups as to be expected so far from the rest of this megawad. I thought the last battle would be a doozy, especially since I hadn't found the RL yet and had two super mancubuses in my way, might be tough, but surprisingly the monsters failed to make much of a dent in me.

MAP26: Blast Zone
99% kills, 0/1 secret

Two cybruisers and one explodeyman zombie - that's certainly a wake-up call at the start, getting blown up before I can even type IDCLEV26 to pistol start. This map certainly feels like a bit of a step up in difficulty, simply because the layout has plenty of open spaces for fireball hell to waste you, and the early/middle portion of the map feels a bit ammo-starved. Have fun jumping into the lunar slush to grab clips!

Looks like I was wrong on the cybruiser health (again), they do take about 6 rockets but I suppose this is due to not taking blast damage, since they also die in about 3 SSG blasts or 7-8 normal shotgun blasts, putting them more around Hell Knight territory.

The red key ambush with the cybruisers/suicide zombies was the highlight of the map for me, the rest felt a bit ho-hum (fighting arachnatron snipers at range is something I've seen too often in Doom maps, I feel, it's not super fun).

[NuMetalManiak]

championing this again because I can.

A.L.T.
Hellbound
Estranged
Alexander's maps (Remain III, TNT Renascence, Hell Ground)

[scifista42]

I would not want to spend a month playing maps that all look bland or play mediocre. A variety of mappers / styles would be attractive for me, but the idea of 30 totally random low-rated wads doesn't sound promising to me.

What about Plutonia 2 or Community Chest 2 or 3?

[AD_79]

Maybe Strain, if you want more fun with dehacked.

[gaspe]

Oops, I ended to finish Valiant on my own. Btw for the next month I think these are a good ideas:

scifista42 said:

We almost always play famous wads recently. I'd be up for selecting a few unknown/less-known episode wads

Memfis said:

DTS-T
Vilecore
Armadosia v2
City of Doom Part 1 + Reticula Episode 1 + Osiris
30 random files from /idgames (less than 3.5 stars rating only)
Kmega1 + Eternally Yours
Real World + Real World 2
World of DETH
Master Levels + No Rest for teh Living
etc...

DTS-T reviewed here will be certainly... interesting.

[SyntherAugustus]

Is be interested in Strain.

[Linguica]

Scythe 2 was originally released June 2005. Just saying...

[AD_79]

Linguica said:

Scythe 2 was originally released June 2005. Just saying...

Ok, screw my earlier suggestion and go with this.

Mainly so Suitepee has to play Scythe 2 next month ;)

[Lingyan203]

Plutonia 2 is a great choice. Scythe 2 would also be great as well. I have a few more suggestions: Speed of Doom, Plutonia Revisited, and Alien Vendetta

[Demon of the Well]

I think I will cast my vote for Hellbound (which is also on Suitepee's list, IIRC) for next month, although Scythe 2 (best Scythe hands down!) sounds quite appealing as well, it occurs to me that Valiant itself does seem to be built on a very similar pattern in some ways. If we wanted to go more 'oldschool', I would be most interested in Armadosia, one of very few notable megaWADs of its deceptively recent vintage I've not played.

Map 27 -- Rocket Zone II - 103% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA
Note about the FDA: the main part of the level comes to a close around the 17:30 mark. After that, it's, um......"several" minutes while I wander around forlornly, trying to find the other 50% of the monster population apparently gone AWOL. If it had just been a few monsters or an item or something I'd have just let it go until a later playthrough after a cursory recheck, but half the damned level (or half its population anyway)? No sir, not having it. Suffice to say, eventually I had to get "oldschool" (read: desperate) and resort to some meta-tactics while periodically consulting the automap, but I did eventually find what I was looking for, around 32:00 or so (thank badness it's not a bigger level, my dumb ass might've been there all day). If you watch the demo, I cordially suggest quitting and using -skipsec 1900 or so to jump to the rest of the action right after I first reach the exit.

If 'Swept Into Immolation' was kinda-sorta-surely-not-entirely-my-imagination a reference to Vanguard's Hell episode, I suppose there can be no mistake that 'Rocket Zone II' is very much a paean to the original 'Rocket Zone', from Lunatic. In many ways it's almost like a parallel-universe version of the same map, with many of the same basic encounter designs and progression tropes, albeit generally turned up a notch in intensity, and somewhat in scale. The references range from the blatantly obvious, ala the claustrophobic rocket bonanza in the dead man's canyon halfway through the level, to the retooled and remixed, ala the nasty four-way take on the Mexican hat-dance with you and three arch-viles on the launchpad, to the more subtly analogous, ala the climb/leap to the secret plasma rifle.

One definitely gets the sense that Skillsaw is beginning to engage endgame mode here, as these marquee encounters consistently field heavier monstercounts than in most of anything we've seen thus far, but as per usual they are eminently survivable if you keep your cool and don't utterly squander the plentiful resources--I screwed up the tri-vile encounter pretty badly but still came out of it okay, thanks to the megasphere handed out right beforehand. Controlling space and kiting your attackers from one end of a battlefield to the other (periodically cutting through them as necessary) in order to avoid being cornered while maximizing your opportunities to pour artillery on them is a key tactic in several of these battles, and while the playing field tends to look pretty large and spacious if you're just admiring the scenery, in the heat of battle you'll need some pretty precise movements in order to avoid being dogpiled in the canyon trap, or smacking face first into a crate while trying to escape from chrome-hoofed death in the ambush on the final rise. As might be surmised from the title, the munitions balance does tilt noticeably towards rockets, but it's not skewed to the point where it's a mandatory tool in all situations; I got some good mileage out of the SSG, minigun, plasma rifle, and (in the hidden area) the BFG as well, so you've still got plenty of options provided you can avoid dying in the first few seconds of any given assault.

As for that hidden area, well.....I reckon I don't want to spoil too much in this case, suffice to say if you're a fan of Lunatic it should bring back some fond memories. After learning via map 18 that -cl 11 defers to the CFG file where -cl 9 and others mandate certain simulation behaviors regardless of settings in said file when invoked from the command line, I also learned yet another new thing about PrBoom+ as a result of this easter egg: I didn't know it could switch music tracks partway through a level (and then back again), I had thought that was a feature exclusive to ZDoom-family ports. Charming little touch, that, really helps to cement the nostalgia.