Getting to know you, part 3.

[Fredrik]

Lüt said:

Since when? That doesn't apply for over 90% of the people I know.

Meh. Whatever.

[Spike]

Fredrik said:

It's in the nature of the human mind to believe that there has to be a creator or reason behind everything, so I forgive you.

Not necessarily... a lot of people don't even question it - they're too occupied with the 'here and now' to think about how they got here.

[Fredrik]

Spike said:

Not necessarily... a lot of people don't even question it - they're too occupied with the 'here and now' to think about how they got here.

Yeah but it's still in their mind even though they ignore it :) Curiosity is an instinct...

[Zaldron]

The Universe is just a soup of particles interacting with other particles. After all these million of years it has reached a somewhat stable condition, as any real, minor system would do, mainly because of entropy. About our Civilization, I think if there is indeed a Creator in an external, higher multi-dimensional Universe, it doesn't really matters. All his works will be expresed following the laws of his own creation, so "miracles" don't really exist, but they're peculiar expressions of what science can explain. Theologically, I just follow the simple rule of not doing stuff I would despise if done to me. There are several exceptions here and there, but damn, I'm human. Following a systematic, flawless plan of life pretty much ignores our innate randomness we call creativity.

[Fredrik]

Well said, Zaldron.

I agree that if there is anything such as a creator, then the universe was created as a closed system with a set of laws at the start and has been a closed system since that, without supernatural interference.

[Little Faith]

I don't believe the laws of our universe is a closed system, but neither do I believe in a creator.

[Zaldron]

Little Faith said:

I don't believe the laws of our universe is a closed system, but neither do I believe in a creator.

That's almost contradictory.

[fodders]

Little Faith said:

I don't believe the laws of our universe is a closed system, but neither do I believe in a creator.

God will get you for that

[Black]

It's all relative to which side of the brainwashing machine you were on... :)

The King of Thieves,
Black

[Lord FlatHead]

I certainly don't believe in any of the modern religions like Christianity or Islam. Because all the big monotheistic religions are based on stories that are hundreds, if not thousands of years old. Putting your trust in the hundred generations of religous fanatics that came before you never seemed clever to me.

[Sharessa]

All I know (or think I know, but lets not get into that whole false reality thing) is that I am human and I live on Earth with over six billion others, in the middle of a fucking big universe. I don't know whether this world was created by some force, or just appeared because of a coincidental chain of random events, but I don't really care.

I believe that the universe is full of chaos and chaos has the power to create or destroy. Life is just a defiance of oblivion, here temporarily until it returns to its source of creation. But in its destruction, new life has a chance to take its place. As humans, we must work together to make the best of our short lives here, making the world better for others. I have personaly tried to get people to understand this, but they all tell me to 'fuck off' or whatever. Basicaly, I've lost my faith in humanity and I don't care if the whole world goes up in flames killing us all. But I would choose harmony over annihilation any day.

My belief is basicaly this:

One should not have a dogma besides that which they themselves have created. While many would expect this self-created dogma to be an open gateway to immorality and disrespect for human life, in truth it usualy won't promote wanton slaughtering rape, or anything else along those lines. To find what their dogma, they should think take time to think about the world, especialy their fellow human beings and try to look at the world from the perspective of many different people. When you realize how people think you will realise there is no real difference and that all people are equally worthless.

Also, I believe that change is good. Extremely good. People who get caught in the same routines day to day find themselves dissatisfied. Laws cannot keep up with the changes of society and thus can never be completely good for it. Always think for yourself and question authority. Question everything, for the more you know, the more you understand, and understanding is the key.

[Little Faith]

I will not trust any religion that is based around some kind of big story. If I should believe in a religion it should be ultimately pointless and absurd.

[Sharessa]

Heh. I find most religions to be both.

[Little Faith]

I meant it in a positive sense.

[Vampirajay]

ok, i wanna put my views in aswell...religion and god/s are only true if you believe in them, (unfortuanly, what you believe is what you are taught at an early age) to the christians, god is true and good and other stuff but to anyone outside of the christian religion, god is bad and unfair, the same goes for any other religon, people believe that Satan is evil and full of sin, but only the satanist knows different, the same with budists, jews, witchs, everything! I think people should study every religion so that they can make up their own minds without it being forced down their throats!

[Sharessa]

Amen.

I have studeid almost every religion though, and I still choose to remain non-aligned.

[Vampirajay]

This is exactly what I am talking about, you study lots of different religions and, after all of that YOU choose, not not someone else deciding for you! Now for my irony bit, someone told me the other day how much DooM gets blamed for stuff, kids shooting up schools, suicide, that type of stuff, and the people who blame DooM? religious people! my point is, if you are so religous, how can blowing away "Demons" be so bad???

[Lüt]

Vampirajay said:

and the people who blame DooM? religious people!

Heh, you mean "religious morons", not "religious people" ;)

Besides, most of the Doom bashers I've come across aren't religious types, just people who claim to have good morals.

[Little Faith]

There are actually a few real christians among us doomers.

[darknation]

I am a darknationist. Bear with me, this make a little sense.

I think that this world is too fucked up and none of it makes any sense. Religion is fucked, Science is fucked, none of it works and the world is a giant ball of coincidence and bad plotting, like the elaborations of a shitty book.

Conclusion #1: The world does not exist. It is some sort of weird fucked up hallucination in my "brain". I have no concrete evidence that I am sitting here typing. All I have are my so called "senses", touch taste, hearing, sight and smell. The senses are easily deceived, in truth they are nothing more than electrical signals interpreted by my brain. If I seem to be reiterating the plot of "The Matrix" here, it's only because the script writers in Hollywood can explain it way better than I can. Or rather, since they don't exist, I explained it better in the first place.

Conclusion #2: I do exist. I know this because, even when deprived on my senses I am still capable of rational thought. The locus of this thought may or not be my "brain", that's really a moot point. The short hand is "I think therefore I am".

Conclusion #3: I am immortal. The number of times that I have nearly died now is unreal, yet even if termination of this hallucinogenic fiction that my "brain" is currently partaking in it will have no effect on my real self, which could very well be something like an atom bouncing around infinity and engaging in pleasant fictions to pass the time.

Conclusion #4: Guilt and sorrow are irrelevant. Since you do not exist any act I perform upon your "person" is irrelevant. You do not exist outside my fiction thus I am relived of all accountability.

Conclusion #5: All knowledge and fact within this scenario is fabricated by myself and recalled at my leisure. Therefore I am all powerful and all knowing. There is nothing inside this "world" that I am not in subconscious control of.

Final Conclusion: I am a God. There is no point in continuing this conversation since all I am doing is reconfirming my existence to myself.

[fodders]

Little Faith said:

There are actually a few real christians among us doomers.

I think Falconer is an actual Preacher

[Little Faith]

darknation said:

Darknation's personal belief

Darknation = Descartes on LSD

[Vampirajay]

I wasn't trying to offend anybody, and I didn't mean people like you little faith, the type of people i meant are the idiots (religious morons)who give me and others grieve because i/we choose to either
A. not believe in their religion
B. decide not to tell them what our religion is
or
C. tell them what our religion is!

my point is, IMO, all religion should be discarded, by all means we need rules to survive, so make some rules, simmilar to the ones we have now but with one extra addition. no pushing your own beliefs on to others! i personally don't care if littlefaith is christian or not, he seems like a good guy to me and thats all that matters

[Little Faith]

I'm NOT a christian!

Now you have quite unintenionally offended me. But I realise you didn't do it on purpose so I won't hold it against you. :)

[fodders]

Over here in England, we used to get blown up by the IRA over religion, but the sad thing is, in England what religion a person is is of no consequence to anyone, no one EVER asks "What religion are you?" Of 50 years of socialising, I could tell you the religion of a handful of people that are not family, a friend is a friend, it never bothers 99% of English to even think what religion a person is, yet less than a couple of hours away, it's life or death.

[Vampirajay]

Little Faith said:

I'm NOT a christian!

Now you have quite unintenionally offended me. But I realise you didn't do it on purpose so I won't hold it against you. :)

Oops, i am sorry, i just thought that you said you were! Oops, forgive me, sorry!

[Sharessa]

DANARCHY

You know, I want to do a parody of KMFDM's Anarchy called Danarchy. It would be so fun...

[Phoenix]

I always thought the IRA is against British Rule, and I forgot I think the IRA are predominantly Catholic and the loyalists are predominantly Protestant.

The difference between the Church of England and the Catholics in northern Ireland is the absence of the Pope's rule in the Church of England. Both obey the same doctrines. From a religious point of view the Protestant should have the break away rebels.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/ira/conflict/

and the conflict is not over
http://www.observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,730126,00.html

... just to be within the topic

I am a theist/agnostic . I believe there is a God, but I reject religion. And don't try to 'con'vert me. I think the world is a good place, and would be a much better place without religious doctrines floating about.

fodders, the way Bush is promoting christianity in the States is scary. You may not have a religious problem in the England, but if this guy keeps up, we will in the US. :(

[IMJack]

John Paul II, as nice as the guy is, has been making a mistake in not telling the Northern Irish terrs off. It would probably go a long way towards peace to have the Pope denounce the IRA aggression. Hopefully our next Pope will be less conservative and more aggressive against the abuses of the Church.

[fodders]

Yeh we can all look forward to some white smoke from the Vatican chimney :)