Can two monsters kill each other in a melee infighting?

[Maes]

Da Werecat said:

Only at the last possible moment, i.e. in the same tic the actual attack function is performed (the one that does damage or spawns a projectile). You'd have 1/35 of a second less to interrupt the attack.

There are monsters that deal damage in the very first tic of their attack state, so those would be able to deal it even if they died during the tic.

Or move just enough to trigger a linedef or block another monster or projectile etc.

As for dying monsters and their shielding effect, they are still permeable to hitscans but apparently not to other projectiles, a fact that I didn't learn myself up to until recently.

It all boils down to that when proposing such gameplay changes, one has to consider all the consequences.

Interestingly, you do see some of those effects in net games, caused by lag. In those cases, consistency is generally destroyed and "unfair" outcomes (such as missing a shot or being killed by a monster which should be dead) might happen.

[Da Werecat]

Maes said:

There are monsters that deal damage in the very first tic of their attack state

Which ones?

[scifista42]

None of the classic ones, as far as I know. Maes might have been talking about custom DEHACKED.

[Maes]

I was thinking of the Cacodemon's melee attack. It's pretty fast, but probably not one-tic fast. But this is irrelevant anyway. The point is that with a deferred state update, any monster that has reached its firing state's tic in the current gametic, will actually use it, with no possibility of stopping it from happening.

Again, you'd have the dilemma of whether to accept such events ("shit happens, and you had way more than 1/35th of a second to stop it from occurring"), or be able to selectively roll them back.

[Quasar]

Maes said:

I was thinking of the Cacodemon's melee attack. It's pretty fast, but probably not one-tic fast. But this is irrelevant anyway. The point is that with a deferred state update, any monster that has reached its firing state's tic in the current gametic, will actually use it, with no possibility of stopping it from happening.

Again, you'd have the dilemma of whether to accept such events ("shit happens, and you had way more than 1/35th of a second to stop it from occurring"), or be able to selectively roll them back.

You would need an event queue with priorities. Successful infliction of pain or death within the same tic as an attack would have higher priority and would cancel that event out of the queue.

[RightField]

We need a mod which makes Revenants hit in the first tic of their attack state

[Arctangent]

Maes said:

I was thinking of the Cacodemon's melee attack. It's pretty fast, but probably not one-tic fast.

It's no faster than its missile attack; the two come from the same code pointer, so they share the same timing.

Though what may make that seem otherwise is the fact that the Cacodemon's melee is silent, so that may make it seem faster than it actually is.

[scifista42]

RightField said:

We need a mod which makes Revenants hit in the first tic of their attack state

Done! :)

[VGamingJunkie]

Arctangent said:

It's no faster than its missile attack; the two come from the same code pointer, so they share the same timing.

Though what may make that seem otherwise is the fact that the Cacodemon's melee is silent, so that may make it seem faster than it actually is.

I could picture the Cacodemon's melee sounding like the Octabrain's bite sound on Duke 3D.