The REAL doom chaingun (Toy)

[Jasper Carmack]

Buckshot said:

was the ssg/db shotty based on a tootsie toy too?

To a degree, some of it was a heavily modified Dakota.

[Superluigieth1]

I didn't know that about the SSG, so now we need that model!

[Jasper Carmack]

Superluigieth1 said:

I didn't know that about the SSG, so now we need that model!

I can combine the Tootsietoy Dakota elements with my own personal shotgun model. Decided to model my beautiful Iver Johnson Hammerless Hercules a year ago, so it wouldn't be hard combining them + retexturing with that dark metal look.

If anyone wants to do a high res community sprite pack and would like to collaborate with me, we could put something together for the community.

[printz]

The toy Gatling gun posted on this thread looks much tougher than the one in the game.

[joe-ilya]

Do you have the brass knuckle used for the fist?

[Superluigieth1]

joe-ilya said:

Do you have the brass knuckle used for the fist?

What if that brass knuckle was a real brass knuckle?

[Maes]

Superluigieth1 said:

What if that brass knuckle was a real brass knuckle?

Then it will be hard to buy one in toy stores, I guess. Even a plastic one would be problematic. Can you imagine "Action Man's Street Smarts Tough Guy play set", including a beanbag, nightstick and knuckle duster? Or a Nerf "Foam pack-a-punch"? Yeah, that'd go down pretty well...not.

Then again, to me it always looked like Doomguy was simply wearing a weird spiked ring,

[Gez]

Maes said:

Then it will be hard to buy one in toy stores, I guess. Even a plastic one would be problematic. Can you imagine "Action Man's Street Smarts Tough Guy play set", including a beanbag, nightstick and knuckle duster? Or a Nerf "Foam pack-a-punch"? Yeah, that'd go down pretty well...not.

A toy apache revolver seems like a good idea, doesn't it?

[Clonehunter]

Blackmantis said:

To a degree, some of it was a heavily modified Dakota.

http://i.imgur.com/a0xacVb.png

Isn't only the first sprite a legitimate iD sprite? I thought the others here were fabricated? Also, I really don't think the final SSG was derived from this, unless I missed the confirming memo somewhere.

[Superluigieth1]

Blackmantis said:

Anyone wants to do a high res community sprite pack and would like to collaborate with me, we could put something together for the community.

Would you be using Dakotas and Gatlings and converting it to models?

[Zed]

joe-ilya said:

Do you have the brass knuckle used for the fist?

We also need to find out where to get the gloves Doomguy uses for the shotgun.

[Jasper Carmack]

Maes said:

Then it will be hard to buy one in toy stores, I guess. Even a plastic one would be problematic. Can you imagine "Action Man's Street Smarts Tough Guy play set", including a beanbag, nightstick and knuckle duster? Or a Nerf "Foam pack-a-punch"? Yeah, that'd go down pretty well...not.

Then again, to me it always looked like Doomguy was simply wearing a weird spiked ring,

Brass knuckles and spiked rings are the most difficult for me to get. I'd have to get a collectors licence here in Australia to own a pair. It would likely be better to just find someone who has huge hulky arms like Kevin and paint them on when doing the sprites.

Clonehunter said:

Isn't only the first sprite a legitimate iD sprite? I thought the others here were fabricated? Also, I really don't think the final SSG was derived from this, unless I missed the confirming memo somewhere.

I don't know myself actually, I was told this was an authentic ID sprite set that Romero posted on his twitter, however I was never actually able to confirm or find it.

Superluigieth1 said:

Would you be using Dakotas and Gatlings and converting it to models?

Both technically. I'm going to photograph them in as near-original states as I can (as close to how they were photographed for use in DOOM), as well as model them in 3d. It wouldn't be hard to do a 3d model WAD, and a simple WAD relying on the standard photographs.

Zed said:

We also need to find out where to get the gloves Doomguy uses for the shotgun.

They're a bit of a mystery, some kind of brown military gloves.

[Superluigieth1]

Blackmantis said:

Both technically. I'm going to photograph them in as near-original states as I can (as close to how they were photographed for use in DOOM), as well as model them in 3d. It wouldn't be hard to do a 3d model WAD, and a simple WAD relying on the standard photographs.

They're a bit of a mystery, some kind of brown military gloves.

1. That's what I was going for - Photos then Conversion.

2. It just might be recolored military gloves.

[Doomkid]

Technician said:

I remember John claiming the rocket launcher was a modified shotgun. Yeah I know, really.

Oddly enough, when you pick up the "missile launcher" in one of the Alphas, the sprite for it is the shotgun.

[Jasper Carmack]

Doomkid said:

Oddly enough, when you pick up the "missile launcher" in one of the Alphas, the sprite for it is the shotgun.

Interesting connection between the two, but for all we know it could be true.

I'll have to bug Romero about it someday and find out.

[Clonehunter]

Blackmantis said:

They're a bit of a mystery, some kind of brown military gloves.

Alternatively, they could just be gardening gloves.

[Deleted_Account]

Clonehunter said:

Alternatively, they could just be gardening gloves.

Yes! I've always felt that Doomguy was wearing gardening gloves.

[Blastfrog]

The shotgun was one of the first sprite implemented into the game. That the alpha version falls back on that as a placeholder doesn't surprise me. The first person missile launcher sprites were probably implemented after the shotgun sprite had already been assigned, and they didn't bother reassigning it by the time 0.5 was built.

Speaking of the 0.5 first person missile launcher, I wonder what the weapon body was meant to look like, as all you can see is the unfinished (and oddly enough, green) tip of the missile. There is the pickup sprite as a reference, but how the hell was it meant to look as a shoulder-mounted weapon?

[Jasper Carmack]

Sodaholic said:

The shotgun was one of the first sprite implemented into the game. That the alpha version falls back on that as a placeholder doesn't surprise me. The first person missile launcher sprites were probably implemented after the shotgun sprite had already been assigned, and they didn't bother reassigning it by the time 0.5 was built.

Speaking of the 0.5 first person missile launcher, I wonder what the weapon body was meant to look like, as all you can see is the unfinished (and oddly enough, green) tip of the missile. There is the pickup sprite as a reference, but how the hell was it meant to look as a shoulder-mounted weapon?

It's possible I suppose? Perhaps it was initially intended to be some kind of traditional shoulder-mounted RPG / rocket launcher?

If I can't find some kind of toy that the rocket launcher was based off, I may just 3d model it as I see it, and hope for the best results!

[HorrorMovieRei]

Sodaholic said:

how the hell was it meant to look as a shoulder-mounted weapon?

I always figured you held the doom rocket launcher in the same way you would if you were hip firing an assault rifle, which is bizarre for a weapon of this type, but whatever, it's doom.

[Maes]

Indeed, the RL has a very confusing sprite, which appears like a mish-mash of a Panzerfaust, a semi-auto shotgun, a pump-action shotgun, a bazooka and a grenade launcher.




Real-life weapons that are capable of firing a rocket with that kind of range are shoulder-mounted, because of their weight and because of the back blast.

The back of the RL doesn't look like a gun's butt, however: it looks more like a shoulder-mounted's weapon back opening, where the back blast exits from.

However, the rest of the design suggest a more rifle/shotgun-like usage, just like a grenade launcher -indeed, it looks like it has a pistol grip, and even appears to have a semi-auto breech PLUS a pump-action grip!

But the weirdness doesn't stop here: the barrel of the launcher looks really thin compared to its muzzle, which looks like a Panzerfaust's shaped-charge projectile!

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/companyofheroes/images/f/ff/Panzerfaust.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20110523155538&path-prefix=en

Ofc, the "shaped charge" might be just a very bulky muzzle brake, which compensates for the recoil. That would mean that the rockets are much smaller than what their sprites suggest, if they can travel inside that barrel, like a grenade launcher, and are indeed shot in semi-auto mode, as if this was a semi-auto hunting shotgun. And in fact it DOES shoot way faster than the shotgun, and it appears to have what looks like a long, but shallow clip BEHIND the trigger (a bull-pup configuration?)



Finally, the fore-end has a grip like that used in pump-action shotguns, not on semi-autos. A "rocket" with an effective blast radius of 2-3 meters, like the ones used in Doom, wouldn't need to be very large: a 30mm-40mm rocket with a few grams of explosive would suffice. But the rockets' sprites suggest that they are as large as artillery shells. That's the most fucked-up weapon of all, because it can somewhat relate to modern weapons better than the purely imaginary ones like PR or BFG, but a lot of things like scale, design are really WTF.

Edit. Wait. I think got it. The RL was designed after a water squirt gun. The "back blast opening" is really a water tank (or the compressed air tank), and the big muzzle with the large "valley" sagging between it the body was for a water tank (not appearing in the sprite) This explains the pumping fore end too. BWAHAHAHA WE'VE BEEN SHOOTING AT DEMONS WITH A PAINTED-ON WATER SQUIRT GUN ALL THIS TIME.

[Jasper Carmack]

[Maes]

The similarity is indeed uncanny, and there probably exists a similar toy with the rest of the RL's features present O_o

Could we have nailed it?

[Jasper Carmack]

Maes said:

The similarity is indeed uncanny, and there probably exists a similar toy with the rest of the RL's features present O_o

Could we have nailed it?

Looking at the toy by Entertech in detail, I don't think it is what the Rocket Launcher is based on. My guess it is that it is some other obscure 1980s toy or piece of technology.

[Deleted_Account]

The future is now!

[HorrorMovieRei]

Maes said:

and even appears to have a semi-auto breech PLUS a pump-action grip!

Sweet jesus, now I want to see a pump-action rocket launcher in doom SO bad

[Jasper Carmack]

I've been doing some analysis on the launcher.

First I broke down the shape;



Then modeled it in 3d (very very VERY roughly)



I hoped the alternative views might give me some idea of what it may look like. I wondered if it was the leg of a transformers toy or something perhaps. It almost looks like a toy rocket of some shape or form.

Given the unusual protrustions on the side, the enlarged tip, along with the ribbed etchings along the body, I also wonder if we may be looking at some form of retro flashlight?

(Example)



EDIT:

This PEZ 80s dispenser shaped like a ray gun shares similar shapes/parts too.

[dg93]

I think I found the real Doom Chaingun..... Well sort of. It's not a toy though

[Blastfrog]

How do you intend to handle the lengthened barrels of the chaingun? Move the weapon forward, crop it and put it behind the main image?

It'd be neat to see some of those models made low-poly and adapted for Doom 3.

[Jasper Carmack]

the_miano said:

I think I found the real Doom Chaingun..... Well sort of. It's not a toy though
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuS3G7YKrj4

That would be an awesome gun to own.

Sodaholic said:

How do you intend to handle the lengthened barrels of the chaingun? Move the weapon forward, crop it and put it behind the main image?

It'd be neat to see some of those models made low-poly and adapted for Doom 3.

Technically, the barrels aren't really any more lengthened than how they were in the photos digitalized for DOOM. They were taken from a very low FOV, resulting in a very zoomed/short appearance.

Example 1: High FOV, no zoom


Example 2: Low FOV, zoomed (how they were done for DOOM)


Sorry about the blurriness, my stupid camera refused to focus.

When I get around to doing the high quality digitalizations, I will ensure there is perfect focus, ample lighting etc

As for the 3d models, I can adjust the FOV in the rendering viewport, which can be used to give them the same look.

Also 4 minutes on the timer until (Doom 4 reveal)? wooo!