Reveal thread from EE forum (split)

[Jaxxoon R]

I like the movement everything has, sort of a jolty feel. I like what I see, it's clearly not the classics with modern graphics by any means, but it does what it needs to do.

[fraggle]

Here's the trailer for convenience.

A few more thoughts:

Does anyone else feel like the monsters are missing something? I'm not even sure what I mean myself here but it's like they have no personality at all. The combination of speed and darkness means that they're just these sort of blurry silhouettes moving around and sometimes throwing stuff at you. Compare to the classic games where every monster has a recognisable feel and personality to it.




Next, the weapons really sucked. It seems like they've made the same mistake that id have been making for years, going back as far as Doom 3 and arguably even as far back as Quake 3, in not paying any serious attention to the sound effects for their weapons. None of the guns seem to have any kind of satisfying "bang" to them, they mostly just sound like mechanical clunking noises when fired. The super shotgun is probably the best of the bunch and even that sounds weak.

My other objection would be the overarching focus on gore. Now, I need to qualify that statement: all of the Doom games have always contained some amount of gore, and I don't have any personal problem with it (I'm not squeamish). Rather, it's frustrating that people seem to have got it into their heads that to be a Doom game, it has to be a constant, unceasing gorefest, the video game equivalent of a slasher film. Maybe it's because the original had the chainsaw in it, maybe it's because Doom 3 used gory scenes quite a lot, maybe it's id trying to cash in on the success of Brutal Doom, I'm not sure.

When I think about what I particularly love about the original Doom - particularly E1 and E2, it's the atmosphere of the games. They somehow manage to balance action-based gameplay with a spooky atmosphere that's accomplished via some very clever level design and backing music that does a really good job of setting the mood. But atmosphere is a difficult and delicate thing that requires careful thought to accomplish, and it's probably going to be hard to build any kind of suspense if the player is just being subjected to a constant visceral onslaught of gore.

Overall it feels like this is an attempt to blend elements of classic Doom and Doom 3, but it looks like it resembles the latter more than the former. In that sense it seems kind of lazy and unimaginative - easier and safer to stick to the Doom 3 formula than to try something new. Where it tries to incorporate elements from the original games they seem superficial - like the fact that the player moves fast or the door opening sound that people inexplicably got excited about last year. It's a shame that there doesn't seem to have been any real attempt to understand the original game on any kind of deeper level.

The one really interesting thing was the Snapmap feature. Recognising how important mods were to the original Doom is really insightful and incorporating a way for people to design their own levels and change the gameplay is really cool. I just hope it's a genuine attempt to honour that element of the original game rather than just a cynical attempt by Bethesda to make money off players.

[Linguica]

I agree with most of those points. It definitely feels like they're remaking Doom 3 far more than they're remaking Doom - down to the blandly colored, hard-to-distinguish enemies, gratuitous gore and entrails, and lackluster sound effects (was that plasma rifle sound literally the same grating pewpew one they used in Doom 3?).

[CorSair]

*Looks trailer*
So... Uhm...

Is it Doom 3 again?


.:edit:.
Was there in-fighting involved in first 3 minutes? It kinda looked like that one imp was about to attack that zombie.

[Livo]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-06-15-bethesda-reveals-first-doom-gameplay

Here's the 9 minute video. For people who saw the closed room trailer last year, I assume it's exactly the same video?

Also here's their two minute trailer (BOSS SPOILERS!)

Spoiler

Don't watch this if you don't want to have a good look at the Cyber demon or BFG before release

https://youtu.be/rXAF8CnSoX4

The greater emphasis on player movement is great, hopefully they'll make good use of verticality throughout the game.

I'm not so sure about the fatalities: as mentioned above, they look nice but they could get pretty repetitive (both gameplay and animation wise) and slow things down. I assume that they'll take an extra button press to perform, so I guess that we could avoid them. Weapons sounds are meh.

Not a big fan of a lot of the enemies having (mostly) similar colour palettes. I'm not asking for bright cartoony or neon colours but some differentiation would be nice

[hardcore_gamer]

I don't how exited I will get over that snapmap feature. Yea it's cool that it's there but it kinda looks like it will be similar to the map editor for the Time Splitters game, meaning it will be too limited to make anything very good so most peoples maps will all looks and feel the same.

EDIT: I just watched the entire gameplay footage rather than just the trailer. I have mixed feelings about it. Some of the guns like the plasma gun sound fucking pathetic. There were so few enemies on screen considering how large the rooms were that I almost dare call the gameplay footage boring, and the enemy AI actually looks worse than it is in the original Dooms.

On the other hand, I did like the gore and somewhat like the art style. I also lol'd at end when the revenant showed up. I think I will wait and see more before judging.

EDIT: Weapon sounds can probably be modded so who cares?

[Maes]

Well, that looked more like an updated Doom 3, than anything else (which made sense, IMO. If they were going to use anything pre-existing assets as a base, Doom 3 was a much better starting point, especially with the recent HD re-release and the "brand recognition" it has). This raises the question whether a fan-made Doom 3 mod could match it, point per point....

There are noticeable improvements in the gameplay though, with the most obvious being Doomguy's mobility, and the arcade-like touches like fatalities and scattering bonuses. For the rest, it's simply a product of its time. I don't feel it could have been any different.

The above being said....I'd get it. Try to enjoy it for what it is (just like you can enjoy Doom 3), and not for what you think it should be like.

Besides, it's a fact that Doomers don't know what they want, so why try pleasing everyone?

Edit: or wait....maybe they did [know what they want]?

Maes said:

I'm surprised that the polls, so far, seem to point clearly in the direction of a complete remake that breaks away with vanilla, IWADs etc. and embraces a modern engine with HD 3D graphics, perhaps a "Doom 3 the way it should be". OK, maybe not with NUTS.WAD-type levels, but certainly SOME of the original gameplay can be presented through a modern engine, and it would be interesting to see the results. Bonus points if it DOESN'T feel like a prettied-up GZDoom or Doom Ascension.

Well, careful what you wish for next time. See you when Doom 5 (or the new "Doom 2") comes out ;-)

[RTC_Marine]

So Doom 3 with a new coat of paint and stolen ideas from Mortal Kombat, whoop-de-do...

[lazygecko]

Linguica said:

I agree with most of those points. It definitely feels like they're remaking Doom 3 far more than they're remaking Doom - down to the blandly colored, hard-to-distinguish enemies, gratuitous gore and entrails, and lackluster sound effects (was that plasma rifle sound literally the same grating pewpew one they used in Doom 3?).

Best to reserve judgment on sound seeing as it's coming from very compressed cam recording.

[Technician]

Doom 3 done right, IMO. And what's they're problem with putting horns on demons. That would have been a dead giveaway for the imp.

[Ichor]

Is it me, or did the player double jump in a couple of spots?

[Yuki Senmatsu]

Ichor said:

Is it me, or did the player double jump in a couple of spots?

I may've seen the same thing.

[Obsidian]

They totally did. It caught me by surprise too.

[Maes]

To me it looks like they have a "cliff climbing" mode, e.g. if you just barely land on a cliff or edge, Doomguy manages to push on, just like in Vanilla.

[geo]

Platinum Shell said:

I wonder how taxing Doom 4 is on computers processor-wise. I think it's a neat idea that someday we could have an "average" priced CPU capable of tackling masses of monsters in a game like Doom 4, similar to how we currently can with Doom 2 with nuts wad.

From what I saw its less a beast on your processor, more a beast on your video card. Perhaps if there was really 30 enemies at a time it would be processor intensive. Everything activated is dead within seconds. From the look of it, I'd still recommend 3rd or 4th gen i5 or i7.

If lighting is dynamic instead of prebaked, or every object has physics and gravity instead of static... then it gets to be a bitch on your processor.

[geo]

Maes said:

To me it looks like they have a "cliff climbing" mode, e.g. if you just barely land on a cliff or edge, Doomguy manages to push on, just like in Vanilla.

Yeah I noticed he barely needed to be on the cliff too, but maybe just push the jump button in air and close enough to an edge to climb it. Since there's clearly a double jump. The double jump will be good for multiplayer / death match.

[joe-ilya]

It was good, but there are some things I'd like to say:

-I hate how the weapon selection slows down time, why can't you just push a number on your keyboard to pull the weapon out?

-The double-jumping is not just goofy but also makes the mappers to make ledges much taller and it'll contain tons of bugs just because you jumped in the wrong spot, same thing happened in the classic doom which didn't even allow jumping, they should look at the bugs section of the classic doom more.

[Jaxxoon R]

What? Those were some of my favorite features they showed. Also, if I'm not mistaken, I remember hearing that the guy playing the demo was using a PS4/Bone pad, so it's a nice thing to have in that case.

[scifista42]

Double jumping and slowed time during weapon selection were fine with me. And so on.

[ETTiNGRiNDER]

Too much Doom 3, too much Brutal Doom, not enough anything resembling the originals (except maybe the revenant design). The little blue chips that fly off some killed enemies look stupid and are probably for some stupid upgrade purchase system. Seems like it's cargo cult retro at best, and probably not even that. About like I expected.
Looks like it's better than Doom 3 at least, which is saying very little.

Mildly intrigued by the laser beam guy, but that's about it.

[geo]

ETTiNGRiNDER said:

Too much Doom 3, too much Brutal Doom, not enough anything resembling the originals (except maybe the revenant design). The little blue chips that fly off some killed enemies look stupid and are probably for some stupid upgrade purchase system. Seems like it's cargo cult retro at best, and probably not even that. About like I expected.
Looks like it's better than Doom 3 at least, which is saying very little.

Mildly intrigued by the laser beam guy, but that's about it.

Laser beam guy looked original. Mancubus looked original. Cyber demon looked original... but not enough. I hope they do have original monsters though or even Doom 3 monsters.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

The breakable models are cool, but it looks like "another brown shooter" now. Tell these chumps at all the game studios to start using color in games again.

[joe-ilya]

More complaints:

-Unrecognizeable monsters, I only understood the cyber, the manc and the rev. The rest looked like either an imp or a hitscanner.

-barely any standalone health pickups, the health pickups are yours once you kill a monster, but what if you can't fight the monster because you need some health? You're screwed.

-No hordes, no double kills in one shot (excluding barrel kills)

-Lack of color.

-No hellish music, it was just plain dubstep garbage.

[Jaxxoon R]

Yeah, quarry and steel mill aren't exactly the best environments to choose if you want to showcase color. Mostly brown rock and overpowering red/yellow respectively.

I also didn't hear any dubstep, just really forgettable industrial tracks, as admittedly Quake-like they are in some ways. Also, take a listen to the first minute of this video and you'll hear some distorted wailing as the background music. It's not by any means Hodges-level but they did give the effort towards dark ambiency as well.

[SavageCorona]

joe-ilya said:

-No hellish music, it was just plain dubstep garbage.

I thought it sounded more like the New Order soundtrack which was alright.

[Kontra Kommando]

I'm disappointed, it looks fucking boring.

[Fulgrim]

Based on the E3 demo it seems like a mixed bag. I'll play it after it comes out, but I will not be buying the game tell it goes on sale for a pretty deep discount.

[DoomUK]

joe-ilya said:

-I hate how the weapon selection slows down time, why can't you just push a number on your keyboard to pull the weapon out?

I missed the part which said what platform they were showing the game on, but it would be horribly dumb to not give the PC crowd the traditional way of choosing a weapon.

Anyway, looks fun. Like I've already said, I wasn't expecting some kind of FPS revolution or the magic of Doom/II to be recaptured, but I'm pretty happy with what I'm seeing.

[Kontra Kommando]

fraggle said:

Does anyone else feel like the monsters are missing something? I'm not even sure what I mean myself here but it's like they have no personality at all. The combination of speed and darkness means that they're just these sort of blurry silhouettes moving around and sometimes throwing stuff at you. Compare to the classic games where every monster has a recognizable feel and personality to it.

This is exactly my biggest issue with what I had seen. The monsters just seem like big bulky automatons that break into pieces. It looks like they belong more so in Gears of War.

joe-ilya said:

More complaints:

-Unrecognizeable monsters, I only understood the cyber, the manc and the rev. The rest looked like either an imp or a hitscanner.

-barely any standalone health pickups, the health pickups are yours once you kill a monster, but what if you can't fight the monster because you need some health? You're screwed.

-No hordes, no double kills in one shot (excluding barrel kills)

-Lack of color.

-No hellish music, it was just plain dubstep garbage.

I agree on all counts. And what's up with the monster's body parts being highlighted after you shoot them? Maybe it has something to do with the helmet interface; but why is that even necessary really? Isn't blood splurting out it enough to signify that the enemy has taken damage?

EDIT:

So now I've seen this video four times in a row now. Maybe I jumped the gun when I said it was "Fucking boring", because i was in a shit mood (I physically feel like shit right now too; Hay Fever to the point of nausea.). At any rate, the game is still not what i had expected. I think the environment looks cool; it reminds me of the last scenes from of Alien 3. But what had bothered me was the beefy look of the former humans. I know that's how humanoid character were in Doom 3 and in past quake games; but I was expecting to see something more realistic looking at this point. As someone else said earlier, its hard to tell the difference between them and the imps. The fatalities are cool, but their longevity of their luster remains to be seen. Weapons look more Doom 3-ish; as do most of the aesthetics of the game. For me personally, I disliked that art-style. I was expecting the enemies to look a little more like the traditional doom, with updated graphics.

For the record, I didn't like Doom 3.

[DooM_RO]

Guys, the techbase was the SECOND LEVEL. How many monsters did Doom have in E1M2 in each room?