E3 discussion [outdated]

[Panteruh]

Color is fine, the majority of the coloring looks like it comes off ambient lighting... rewatch the first half of the demo and pay attention... the lighting changes from normal to yellowish based off the ambient light from the blast furnace areas...

As far as hell? This is ONE snippet of an OUTDOOR section of hell.... For all we know they will have interior areas down in hell just we had in the classics... could be cavernous/techie/indoor bright red lava flowing areas, dark blue areas, ... spaces where the floor is pink intestinal organic matter...

Who the fuck knows? Maybe a goddamn rainbow arena for a cyberdemon square dance festival.

Stop whining about it. Shit.

[illYay1337]

That's most likely color grading.

A post processing effect where they try to unify the color scheme of the whole scene by basically fading everything to a certain color.

I personally am not a fan because it makes things look very monochrome and have nostalgia about how clean and colorful things looked before color grading.


I watch this video and personally really like how things look when the color grading is turned off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJU-JKFPsTo

Man, NIGHT AND DAY difference. It looks all colorful and beautiful instead of boring and bland. Are there people that like it more with it on? It's good for a movie where a scene needs a specific mood and you see it for like a minute, and maybe for a cutscene or powerup effect as well like Doom 1 had, but I'd want the main game to be the default coloring personally.


That being said though, I feel like it's not too strong in Doom 4 so it's probably not going to be too bad. Those fiery lava pits gave off a LOOOT of yellow light. You can see some colors coming through very strongly and not getting too desaturated. In the battlefield video though, there are these yellow fences and lights that look grayish with color grading on.

Hell is a bit yellowish like Sulfur. Who knows, maybe they'll have areas with red skies too? If color grading was on as strongly as it is in Battlefield it's likely you wouldn't see so much contrast in the little lights on all the monsters.



Well I rewatched the game and it looks like there may not be a whole lot of color grading based on how much random other colors stand out.

[Avoozl]

Honestly I think I would prefer it if lava/magma gave off a orangey-red glow rather than a yellow glow.

[Noiser]

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Edited October 15, 2019 by Noiser

[Obzen]

That blasted piss filter mucking up this poor game :-(

[Noiser]

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Edited October 15, 2019 by Noiser

[dsm]

Obzen said:

That blasted piss filter mucking up this poor game :-(

http://s42.photobucket.com/user/Fistertain/media/Screenshot%2019.png.html

http://s42.photobucket.com/user/Fistertain/media/Screenshot%206.png.html

http://s42.photobucket.com/user/Fistertain/media/Screenshot%2010.png.html

To be fair though, most of the video is shot in areas where the ambient light is yellow, which I figure is what the OP doesn't like - these screenshots show some of the very few instances where there isn't an overwhelming presence of yellow.

I very much doubt all of the game will be covered in yellow light though. The multiplayer and Snapmap trailer showed glimpses of other areas that were decidedly not yellow at all (I recall a section covered in clear blue ambient light).

I'm convinced the overall coloured lighting will fit the kinds of light sources and atmosphere that will dominate each given map.

[Dinosaurs]

Hofmann said:

Then why don't they say "those screenshots look like shit to me" or "i hope the entire game doesn't look like this", but instead they say things like "Doom 4 is shit because this and this and that and that..." and treat their opinion as fact, and when you give them counter arguments they are all like "its just my opinion man, are you refuting my opinion?"

I haven't read the entire thread but I haven't seen anyone say "Doom 4 is shit." Regardless, I wouldn't really care if people feel that way. Some have bricks in their heads over these things, it doesn't mean you have to shield Doom 4 from opinions.

[Obzen]

[MrHofmann]

Dinosaurs said:

I haven't read the entire thread but I haven't seen anyone say "Doom 4 is shit." Regardless, I wouldn't really care if people feel that way. Some have bricks in their heads over these things, it doesn't mean you have to shield Doom 4 from opinions.

It's because no one said "Doom 4 is shit", but everyone that has a complaint about something has that attitude. It's not shielding Doom 4 from peoples opinions, there is a difference between saying "the colors are shit" and "the colors look like shit to me".

[DooM_RO]

Hofmann said:

It's because no one said "Doom 4 is shit", but everyone that has a complaint about something has that attitude. It's not shielding Doom 4 from peoples opinions, there is a difference between saying "the colors are shit" and "the colors look like shit to me".

Precisely this.

[MrHofmann]

Here are some more screenshots with minimum orange

[Noiser]

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Edited October 15, 2019 by Noiser

[Dinosaurs]

Hofmann said:

It's because no one said "Doom 4 is shit", but everyone that has a complaint about something has that attitude. It's not shielding Doom 4 from peoples opinions, there is a difference between saying "the colors are shit" and "the colors look like shit to me".

So you are 'reading' people's attitudes and coming to the conclusion that they think Doom 4 is shit; I'm not trying to call you out but it sounds like the 'opinion police.'

Just reading the first page again, all Noiser said was "COLORS SUCKS" and linked to a page describing a trend in movies that he feels has affected gaming. Everyone proceeded to either be offended by him, throw satire, or accuse him of hating the game...

He even tried to respond:

Noiser said:

I not said anything that proves that "I will hate everything id do".

I'm not judging the "entire game", i'm judging what I see (and what they would like to show me).

Just looking at page two, you guys have had a great time mocking someone who's native language isn't English, and you justify it by projecting hate into his comments.

[Obzen]

Noiser said:

You definitely are not understanding my point... all these screenshots HAVE the problem I said (expect maybe the dark blue glasses room, but even there is filled with a cyan background).

Seriously, read the entire thread.

It's definitely a strange phenomenon in art. Surely an over-simplification of the concept of using complementary colors in design. All we can hope for is that the lava environment is merely the level chosen to showcase the game by some marketing knucklehead, and isn't a design decision that runs through the whole game.

All I was trying to showcase, was that the effect was from dynamic light, not necessarily color grading.

I totally get what you're saying, though.

[Jaxxoon R]

I think completely detesting a color palette just because of its oversaturation in movies is foolish.

Doom 4 is a video game, not a movie. It doesn't take place in suburban America inexplicably tinted orange and teal, it takes place in a grimy industrial environment, and its use is purely logical.


This is a parking garage. The poor quality of the lighting tints everything green/blue, and the floor stripes here are yellow for a matter of visibility.



Logically, you would want to make an isolated facility as comfortable as you possibly can. Look at the walls in the last screenshot Hofmann posted. Instead of Hollywood's Gweedo Orange they are a friendly banana yellow. At it's best, ywllow gives off an air of extroversion and emotional strength. Now look at the door and pipes above, to offset any irritating qualities of yellow, they use a steely blue, which at its best gives off an air of serenity, duty, coolness, and calm.

Now look at the concrete below. It's a completely neutral gray, proving that this area in fact has not been tinted blue but rather is that color naturally.

And even then, those aren't the only colors. Look and see the burnt, oxidized reds of the pipes installed in the wall, providing that last bit of flair to break up the color scheme. Serving the same purpose the blood serves in other areas.

The use of blue/yellow does not immediately make something bad. Doom 4's base levels have a lot of blue/yellow/red. You know what else has that color palette? Scrap Brain Zone. You know what that also was? A base.

[Noiser]

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Edited October 15, 2019 by Noiser

[MrHofmann]

Dinosaurs said:

So you are 'reading' people's attitudes and coming to the conclusion that they think Doom 4 is shit; I'm not trying to call you out but it sounds like the 'opinion police.'

Sure, why the fuck not? After a few posts you can see in which direction a person is thinking.

Dinosaurs said:

Just reading the first page again, all Noiser said was "COLORS SUCKS" and linked to a page describing a trend in movies that he feels has affected gaming. Everyone proceeded to either be offended by him, throw satire, or accuse him of hating the game...

What the fuck are you talking about? Nobody got offended, the satire was a way to show him how silly his arguments were. He wasn't hating the game, he was hating the fact that Doom is following a color trend, which he assumed based solely on a trailer and a gampeplay of only two levels and ignored the possibility that the other 99% of the game might not be like that, which is a biased point of view and typical for an average cynical pessimistic hater.

Noiser said:

I not said anything that proves that "I will hate everything id do".

I'm not judging the "entire game", i'm judging what I see (and what they would like to show me).

Despite what he said, it seemed to me in fact, that he is assuming that the whole game is like that based on the trailer and gameplay, which I concluded from his other posts. If that is not the case then what's the point in judging the trailer and gameplay(two levels), when you know that the entire game has a very high chance of not being the same as those two levels? That is the absurdity everybody tried to point out to him.

Dinosaurs said:

Just looking at page two, you guys have had a great time mocking someone who's native language isn't English, and you justify it by projecting hate into his comments.

I personally don't give a shit about what he thinks about the colors, i like them for now and i don't give a shit about the trend. And honestly, i think that nobody else gives a shit either, they understood him perfectly even with his bad English, and they weren't mocking him they were just trying to explain to him how pointless it is to argue about tastes, and that he makes a big deal from basically nothing relevant to Doom. If he doesn't like how movies and video games(potentially Doom as well) are following the trend, then he should have started a thread at some art forum or something. The only one projecting stuff into comments here is you.

[Noiser]

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Edited October 15, 2019 by Noiser

[Jaxxoon R]

Noiser said:

It's more toward cyan.

This is cyan

This is steel blue

This is the most saturated shade of blue in the entire image.

Noiser said:

Confortably? I think it must be the opposed: a Doom environment supposedly need to evoke fear, dark atmosphere, opression.

You fail to realize that this base wasn't constructed to oppress people and fill them with fear, it was designed to do a job and get it done. You complain about the game using the wrong colors, the evil color combination that must never be used under any circumstance lest we commit an atrocity towards art as a whole, and what. What do you want instead?

Noiser said:

It's not because it's popular, It is because affect the whole variety of combinations. It is like saying: "Why have ice creams of various flavors? Chocolate is good enough, we do not need others, we do not need any choice".
(...)
As I said, teal and orange are not the problem. The problem is using only it all the time, systematically.

Using it all the time = oversaturated

Noiser said:

What is "pure logical"? There is no such thing in color theory.

But then

Noiser said:

You only have contrasting colors and balance between them... And that's not the question here.
...
It is the composition that creates the form\environment, and not vice versa.

So why are you attempting to logically analyze them?

Noiser said:

And say things like "friendly yellow"... these are completely arbitrary terms. ANY color can give good or bad sensations as well.

Hence "at its best." Arbitrary my ass.

[Noiser]

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Edited October 15, 2019 by Noiser

[MrHofmann]

Noiser said:

Man, don't need to be that annoying, sincerely. Why you are so angry about a mere opinion?

Well, I'm sorry if facts annoy you. I'm not angry, I'm just straightforward.

Noiser said:

I'm not discussing "tastes" because I like cyan and teal combination when used properly (I even give a example from BTSX).

I never said that you don't like cyan and teal, you made it clear that you like it.

Noiser said:

And a lot of people "don't gives a shit" about this? So why you are complaining? And even if it is true, doesn't matter. Popularity does not mean anything. This is exactly a good example of argumentum ad populum.

I'm not complaining and i wasn't talking to you, are you seeing what you want to see?

[Noiser]

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Edited October 15, 2019 by Noiser

[Jaxxoon R]

Noiser said:

Arbitrary because can evoke bad feelings as well.

I literally just said that. I said that and yet you seem to think I didn't. Not literally word for word, but I made it pretty clear.

Noiser said:

There is no such a thing as "logical colors".

Logical in its application. In-universe someone would want to create a base with these colors because of their desired effects, the settings would logically be these colors and this is a game with a mostly realistic visual style,

Noiser said:

I already answered that. It's basically not true because I never said such a thing.

You come off like it though, very strongly.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/ratchet/images/4/4d/Veldin_1.png/revision/latest?cb=20120524214847
This is Veldin. It is a desert planet, mostly yellow. So the designers gave it a greenish sky, bluish tech, and various sickly red/green plants to break up the monotony.

But let's disregard this, instead let's ask what do you even want?

Noiser said:

And yeah, I know that thread title is a little misguided (explaining why the colors sucks), but I wrote it on purpose, for draw attention to the problem.

From this I'd say you're just being an attention-grabber, you say:

Noiser said:

I like cyan and teal combination when used properly

Which is blue and blue, so you can't even keep your story straight. Then you go and mention some kind of systematic usage of orange and teal like there's some kind of secret organization of cartoon paintbrushes that want to rule the world with bland colors. Then I point out how you seem to detest this color combination's usage at all through your kicking and screaming and giving every excuse as to why Doom 4 shouldn't use it in any situation because it's the Orange and Teal, but then you proceed to say "oh I never I never said that oh no." Fucking make up your mind.

[Noiser]

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Edited October 15, 2019 by Noiser

[TheGamePhilosophe]

Hofmann said:

there is a difference between saying "the colors are shit" and "the colors look like shit to me".

They mean the same thing actually. Aesthetic judgments are always subjective. Not all of us want to take the time to spell out the obvious for certain individuals who have taken it upon themselves to police people's opinions on Doom 4.

[The 1st Gamer]

Man, this thread reminds me a lot of my Doom 4 Girl thread.

[Noiser]

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Edited October 15, 2019 by Noiser

[Dinosaurs]

Hofmann said:

they weren't mocking him they were just trying to explain to him how pointless it is to argue about tastes...

"I wasn't fucking you up the ass, I was just showing you how pointless anal sex is." - said Oderus to the butter boy.

[DooM_RO]

My sarcastic comments are not necessarily pointed at Noiser BTW, they are pointed more at people who seem to have that know-it-all attitude, like that incredibly douchy (I am not saying Noiser is) and frankly clueless guy who made the "What Doom 4 is vs what Doom 4 should be" photo in hopes that people like that guy who browse the forums see our counter-arguments and actually think for a second.