The DWmegawad Club plays: NOVA II

[dobu gabu maru]

MAP27: The long maps take a break for Obsidian’s gloomy Egyptian funhouse. Like all of his maps, it’s a slow crawl forward punctuated by some real nasty traps. Being such a diminutive map, munitions are kept pretty tight and the encounters can get out of hand if you don’t know how to deal with them. It’s definitely a lot more tame on replay (and the lack of those pesky resurrecting chaingunners is a massive relief), so it’s a nice breather between two of the hardest maps in the set. Obsidian’s quirkiness definitely isn’t for everyone, but I think he does a nice job here.

I do agree that the quad-teleporter needs to be more distinctly marked, as it's a bit obscure as is.

[tourniquet]

SoundofDoomDoors said:

a level-breaking skip I stumbled over in 29. I'll see if I can do a nomonsters demo in PrBoom.

Oh looks like i misread your post, anyways a short descritpion or a screenshot would be enough to me.

[SoundofDoomDoors]

Maybe you misread me, but I wasn't clear either. I found the skip with monsters ON, got stuck, and noclipped out to finish the level. I took the demo earlier with nomonsters in PrBoom+ to confirm it wasn't a GZDoom issue and it went exactly as I expected. Since you're waiting on it and all, here it is two days early. This was taken with PrBoom+ and the D3 beta. Too bad mediafire and mega both require an account to link now.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/pq44kw8q72accnl/noescape.lmp

Details: (MAP29 SPOILERS) There's a way to get into the red key zone from the hub without hitting the switch/running over the sector that triggers the cacos and pain elementals. I'd say leave it, but there's no way out once you strafe run over like I did in the demo. I noclipped out in my real run after successfully getting the key, then triggered the cacos and PEs afterward because I felt bad.

[joe-ilya]

AD_79 said:

Yes the map sucks, but you can very easily run past monsters if you don't feel like killing them.

Then use saves. It's that easy (saving, not the map itself).

Better generic than shit.

Sorry.

[gaspe]

MAP28 - Messe Noire

Kills: 100% | Items: 100% | Secrets: 50%

Jesus Christ... Literally. A grim church level with Quake textures. It's quite simple visually and on the layout. The start was really tough. The first inner areas are more easy. The big room with the Spiderdemon was more interesting for the spiders usage and their height advantage. The best part is the final battle. When the monsters pop-up it's vital to choose where take cover and where to go as beign trapped here is fatal. Good map overall.

[Veinen]

I'm determined to finish this... Demos for maps 22-25. 22 has a broken monster closet in cl2 so I played with cl9. 23 and 25 demos are first exits with improvised routes just to get something done.

Map22: Hated Attic by obake

A peculiar map for sure. Architecture is strange to say the least and it's definitely not the prettiest map in the set either. The abstractness has it's charm too though and if nothing else at least it's pretty unique. The weird ceiling structure in the big open area is probably the strangest and also the coolest looking spot in the map. The way the blood level raises is nice and decently executed, also a special mention to using at as a means to reach the zerk secret. Gameplay is not the most standard sort either really, not really trap-centric but stuff seems to gather behind you as you progress and it's very possible to get surprised by someone shooting you at the back. The constant hitscanner onslaught is quite merciless actually but health is rather abundant. At the end it turns into a bit of a mess as stuff starts to teleport everywhere. It's not too bad and I don't even mind the SM being there as she does her part in cleaning up and also keeps you alert. The finale makes maxing a bit uncomfortable as it's really easy to lose one or more enemies somewhere in the corridors so getting a good run requires a bit of luck, something which is usually not a very good thing in maps this long. The broken tele closet I mentioned is sector 439, for some reason none of its contents tele into the map with cl2.

Map23: Vindaloo Chronicles by cannonball

Great map. Cannonball really hits the sweet spot with these slaughterish maps he does, they're tough enough to provide a good challenge but manage stay really fun to play at the same time. Pace is super fast at the start as there's nowhere to hide and it remains pretty high speed throughout even after you've managed to carve some safe spots. There's little reason to not play aggressively since ammo is abundant and infights help a ton. The YK area is fucking glorious once you realize that there's no need to hold back on the BFG shots. Easily my favorite map so far, excellent work once again cannonball.

Map24: The Descent by U.O.D.

Another slower one with a few extremely annoying spots. The crushers are a gigantic annoyance that killed me a couple times (although watching Nevanos' stream I learned that you can just run through without stopping in the middle) and the Chaingunner at the Cybers pit can frankly fuck off as well. Pick the blursphere and you're exposed to a Cyber with a terrible aim, don't pick it up and the Chaingunners will take a chunk off your health. In the end it would probably be better to just pick the blursphere and take your chances with the Cyber since the other option is to carefully take out the Commandos which is slow as hell. The redrock part is a little too straightforward rocket spam imo, could have used some more creative combat there. The finale is trivial with the BFG but without it not so much. Visually the map is pretty old-school like U.O.D.'s last one but a little more refined and better looking on pretty much all accounts. It's an alright map all in all although the annoying parts lower the score a bit.

Map25: Parasite Hive by Pinchy

A decenetly enjoyable long and slowish map. Progression is obscure at times to say the least: jumping into the pit at the middle of the "hive" is really unintuitive and took me quite a while before I dropped down there. Visually it's an interesting one and I quite like Pinchy's style here. Similarly to his other contributions, there's a lot of height variation and high structures but there's also the more flat areas inside the hive that look decent enough. Gameplay isn't exactly hard since BFG and RL are given almost immediately and ammo isn't exactly sparse. The biggest issue with the gameplay from a maxers point of view is again that monsters, Cacos especially, may float into the hive area and stay in some corner when you're cleaning up the outer ring so you have to go looking for them. So yeah, I guess this is an alright map as well.

Some super crappy writeups these but it's getting late and I need sleep...

[Pirx]

so, starting where i left, with some notes scribbled on a paper:


14 - purification plant

a bigger map than those before it, in a clean industrial, quake2-like style with browns and large scale, but less monsters than i thought, making combat decent but not difficult.


15 - crumbling necropolis

visually beautiful, a decaying base in the mountains with plenty of water-filled areas and vines hanging from every ceiling and over broken blocks of concrete... but it's huge. certainly takes a lot of time to play through, especially as it has a secret exit.


31 - fever blues

i wrote about this one before, i liked some traps like the one with the revs teleporting at the player and the berserk paxck at the start, only to face an army of shotgunners. overall a colorful mix of interesting ideas and questionable others, like the mass of lost souls at the exit.


32 - megiddo II

others have described this team map in great detail already, so i'll just note that the central hub with its towers reminded me of valiant's hellish islands in a lava sea, albeit with a more traditional texture choice. dave's square, open arena is probably the safest part to start this map. the traps in pinchy's part can kill you quickly if you underestimate them (which i did, i'm just too reluctant to use the bfg). AD_79's part on the other hand was as expected in difficulty, and noisyvelvet's red hell and the finale were fun , but the damaging floor and the radsuits running out put pressure on the player.


16 - red morning light

a short, hectic map with brown brick and vines and mostly low to mid tier enemies


17 - zebetite

i'll remember this one for its particular visuals, see the screenshots with the columns someone posted, a kind of techno-gothic with metallic meshes everywhere, not seen in other maps. some fights could be better though, like the final room with the mastermind on a rock in the outside area, point the plasma gun at it until it's dead.


18 - vile complex

oldschool map with underdetailed visuals expecially compared to the previous one. there's a vile only in the last marble room, however he can take one by surprise after ssg-ing his hell knight squad.


19 - cry of the archvile

as veinen said - this map is indeed very different when you already know it so you're not facing archviles with only a shotgun. leaving the invulnerability for the last fight makes it pretty harmless, otherwise it's an "oh shit" moment. a base with lots of crates to hide behind.


20 - monument to thieves

looks like plutonia, plays more like u_doom, with few monsters here and there, an easier map before the more serious ones.


21 - red gas circle

another short, intense map, an interconnected rocky area with lava, not very strong opposition but there's always some plasma from a few arachs and revs flying at you.


22 - hated attic

a surreal map, a 90s style mix of various textures. there's some textures that could be changed, like the egyptian column and that chessboard texture i find plain ugly. but overall, after playing it for a while, i liked that "dream hell" idea.


23 - vindaloo chronicles

a cyber on a pedestal right in front of you and a lot of lesser enemies in a circle around, in a classic hellish landscape, that's not the reception i expected when i loaded this map. it's borderline slaughter, but again, not that hard when you know where to find the goodies (there's a megasphere and an invuln right at the start, hidden in the lava), but at first, you're on the run, and wherever you go, there's more of them. however there's also plenty of health and ammo to deal with them, so i expect some good demos on this map. the marble room (YK i think) is particularly hard to clean out, due to loads of pain elementals, and later a horde of agitated skeletons and a cyber (which one can use against them). anyway, took me some tries, endind the catchup doom marathon for today.

[Demon of the Well]

Good to see more DWMC streams from you, Alfonzo, I used to quite the enjoy the WAD? streams back when you and Tarnsman were doing those.

Map 26 -- Surreptitious Ichor - 106% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA, 2 Deaths (uses beta D3)
I lost a lot of progress on the second death, use -skipsec 2430 or so to see my second/successful attempt at the fight, as well as my managing to scrape by the rest of the map despite a number of bed-wetting/rocket-eating moments.

If the prospect of a Cannonball/Dobu collab doesn't scare the pants off you, you must either have a deathwish or are just terribly naive. 'Ichor' is a sombre, long-winded affair that steadily alternates between pensive, brooding periods of (relative) quiet and frantic bouts of gutwrenching grindhouse oppression just as neatly as it alternates between game segments from each of its two authors. Cool thing is that while Dobu's sinister, suffocating 'buried alive' style and Cannonball's largescale gladiatorial combat style don't really all have all that much in common (besides general lethality, I mean) and so might seem like they wouldn't fit together very well, in practice they play off of each other fairly well--it's definitely a map of two halves, and so while the transition in style from 'mostly Dobu with some Cannonball' in the first half to 'mostly Cannonball with some Dobu' in the second is not exactly seamless, the level's pacing still feels pretty natural and its overall mood/feel seems quite coherent.

A lot of this cohesiveness is owing to the aesthetic, I would offer. While looking at the overhead map from a pure structure/layout perspective it's not too tough to distinguish Dobu's areas from Cannonball's area--often it's as simple as "claustrophobic/fine-scale = Dobu; airy/tall/open = Cannonball", really--in terms of theme it all seems VERY Dobu, to the point where if I'd been told the map was his alone I'd have believed it unquestioningly and simply assumed he'd decided to tinker with more open/freestyle gameplay in the bigger areas. Oppressive, waterlogged substations half-sunken in the cold earth gradually rust away under the endless torrent of bitter tears welling up from the stony soil, as though the planet itself weeps over the shattered corpse of this fallen world; the more spacious, grandiose areas to the east suggest that it was quite a far fall indeed, belying a highly technological civilization that had not lost touch with the fineries of classical culture. Or perhaps, the planet weeps not for this rusting revenant but because of it--over everything there is a curtain of the eerie, cyclopean 'geode' metalwork formations that are Dobu's calling card, as though the looming black iron edifices are not a part of the fallen world itself but rather some nighted funguous growth nourished by the very death and decay from which it springs.

Whatever the case, there is a pervasive stateliness to the juxtaposition of ornate wooden terraces and mysterious techno-magical echo-chambers with the darkly looming and perpetually weeping monstrous metalwerks, and a certain sense of sadness, as well. While there are many easily recognizable aesthetic traits/tendencies of Dobumaps on display here, be they in his own segments or casually-yet-decisively insinuated into Cannonball's areas--heavy shadows, 'layered' diorama-style detail displays backlit with pulsing lights, chaotic, writhing skylight/ceiling trim, the aforementioned creeping metal 'growth', a very subued, pensive BGM track (incidentally, I personally MUCH prefer sombre, low-key tracks like this in big, difficult, maps like this one, as opposed to the traditional grimly martial/very loud 'final battle' tracks they so often seem to end up with) etc.--it is the aforementioned sense of mysterious melancholy that is the most defining aesthetic characteristic of his work for me, and consistently communicating an abstract emotional impression like that is no small feat. Dobu is one of very few mappers, past or present, where I can look at most of his different maps and see a stylistic connection between them that goes beyond the level of shared physical tendencies and artistic preferences into something deeper and more fundamentally idiosyncratic, as though they appear related not simply because of shared parentage but because their style is informed by some overarching wellspring of background mythos. The specifics or story and narrative generally aren't particularly important in Doom, of course, but having this sense of internally logical lore behind a map's appearance and style, largely or wholly unexplained to the player though it may be, does wonders for what we call 'sense of place' without intruding on the game's naturally abstract/plot-optional nature in any way. At current, the only other mappers who most immediately spring to my mind as evincing this same rare trait in their work are Xaser and perhaps Lainos from the Russian scene--pretty good company for a 'newbie mapper', I'd say.

Anyway, enough of my artsy-fartsy rambling about texture-mapped worldbuilding. Gameplay! 'Surreptitious Ichor' is, unsurprisingly, quite a nasty bastard, probably the most difficult map in the game, I would say. Cannonball and Dobu have very different approaches to making attempts on the player's life, as aforementioned: Dobu's battle preferences are most clearly evinced in the map's opening minutes, where the player scrambles in a desperate panic through the befuddling labyrinth of one the flooded substations, trying to gather all-important gear and supplies before being brutally eviscerated by one of the countless hulking monstrosities prowling through the shadows. The most lethal aspects of this type of heavily claustrophobic gameplay are of course that A) Doomguy's single greatest asset, his speed, is not as overpowering when there's so little room to run and B) that mistakes/poor decisions tend to be very costly, since the risk of being trapped/cornered in these types of environments is great. We might also consider a third point, C), that in these cases indecision and hesitation are generally just as liable to get you killed as simply making the wrong decision, whereas you can often get away with waffling around without a plan for a while in more expansive surroundings. The risk of immediate death and initial helplessness in the map's starting scramble will probably prove more frustrating than fun to some, but if you buckle down you'll find that it's balanced very well: ammo and supplies are sufficient, if you can only maneuver your way to them, and while the enemy presence is oppressive and varied the architecture is 'porous' and complex enough that Doomguy can still use his agility to win the day--it will just be via knowing when to change levels, which staircase/dogleg sprint to make, which alcove to quickly duck into, and that sort of precise, small-scale movement, as opposed to simply outrunning/circlestrafing around everything. While the opening scenario is harrowing, however, let it not be said that Dobu doesn't understand the value of pacing--the much more low-key, incidental action in the shadowy northern flood-caves, while certainly not the map's gameplay 'frontman', makes an important contribution to the overall flow by dint of being a much-needed breather/cooldown period between the stressful opening action and Cannonball's big battle royale buffet beyond the yellow door.

That whole song and dance wouldn't really work in the Cannonball-built areas, of course; a more chaotic, freeform style of fight is needed, something that demands the player remain aware of a larger, more plastic combat situation while still inspiring panic and confusion, albeit in a very different way than Dobu's characteristically tightly-controlled dungeon-crawling does. In the FDA, I found myself overwhelmed and killed on my first visit to the open wooden terrace area beyond the yellow door--it was the trademark Cannonball overseer cyberdemon (the first of several, I should say) that actually killed me, but the demonic victory was very much a group effort, a combination of my being stymied by pinky herds, blockaded by Barons, and nuked by the oppressive nest of arch-viles (who are devastating until you get a fix on their position), all while drowning in a sea of lost souls issuing from the suddenly not-sterile PEs in this half of the map. Crossfire and overview across the sizable expanse are crucial here, as is target prioritization and opportunism; infighting and backstabbing ended up saving me more than once in this latter half of the map.

On that note, while this map is quite brutal and unforgiving--particularly to very brazen/aggressive players--it is eminently doable if you remain calm and use your head. I found much of my success by playing 'surreptitiously', so to speak--eliminating threats in a segmented way (I probably would have ended up in tears if I hadn't decided to start killing perched cyberdemons early on after dying to the first one, suffice to say), being mindful of my resource usage, looking for ways to minimize the number of attacks coming at me at any given moment via infighting and/or carefully choosing temporary holdout positions, taking the time to observe enemy positions in those rare situations where they were unaware of me (this unintentionally totally defused the arch-vile right after the drop into the flesh-pit, for example) etc; I think that for most players, beating this map is going to require using your wits and your ability to learn from your mistakes as well as raw physical reflexes, and there is something very satisfying about that. In current community discourse it seems like there's a tendency to pit careful, conservative, environment-manipulating play against aggressive, offensively-minded Rambo/blitzkrieg-style play as though the two are diametric opposites, but this has always struck me as specious--the two methods are complementary, not exclusionary, and getting through demanding maps like this one often involves strategic deployment of both, which is precisely why some of us enjoy this kind of challenge, even with the time investment and certain degree of trial-and-error play that tends to come with it. My Dirty Sage bit aside, though, FUCK is that last fight down below scary....I ran like a terrified toddler to the upper level as soon as I hit that switch because I just knew shit was really going to hit the fan, and even though that appears to have been more or less the correct thing to do I still only barely escaped with my life, it got so hot in there. I love it! Strategy and warrior skills are all well and good, but sometimes it's also good to be made to temporarily relinquish voluntary bladder control like that--good for the soul!

Anyway, this post is already way too long (I knew it was going to be), so I'll just wrap up by saying "it's a good map, Jim" and making a few bugnotes/suggestions:

* As someone has probably already mentioned, in -cl 2 on UV skill the pain elemental monsters early in the map are sterile (read: don't spit souls) because the number of souls preplaced in the map exceeds the vanilla limit of 32. Assuming the UV player is killing everything as s/he goes, the PEs regain fertility shortly after the yellow door. It wouldn't surprise me to find that this quirk is something Dobu already knows about/approves of (he's funny like that), but I thought I'd mention it for posterity.
* There's a slimetrail somewhere around the rock stairs/revenant ledge on the west side of the first area. I think I may look at this in the demo.
* As aforesaid, I think the quiet cave section is fine. If anything, it could do with having even fewer monsters in it than it currently does, honestly.
* The arch-vile who stands between two candelabras on the west side of the cave just before the yellow key is totally useless. What I would suggest is having him fast-raise out of the floor when the player gets on the lift down there, and then have him walk a few steps (towards the candelabra opening) before teleporting behind the player onto the small lift, which would pressure the player into the cave and make the arch-vile atop the rocks in the center much more of threat.
* Killing perched cybers can be tedious, but in this map it's semi-necessary for a successful no-saves run. I would have at least the guy who teleports next to the 'exit' switch be contained inside of a block-line square so that he can be neatly/consistently telefragged by the player upon return to the area at the end of the map. The guy near the last soulsphere secret, and maybe his revenant buddies nearby, might actually be better if they're hidden until the last part of the fight down there--I feel like I may have gotten off TOO lightly for instantly running away and hiding up top in that second fight.
* Hey Dobu, remember that frivolous one-time green armor you were so inexplicably smitten with in map 03 for some reason? How about making the secret BFG here one-time as recompense? Seems like that'd make the little gimmick much more impactful.... *chortles darksomely*

[Urthar]

ZDOOM - HMP - Pistol Starts

MAP27 - Engraved Bones

I started this map on HMP, died a lot, and restarted on HNTR, only to discover an additional Archvile at the start. Seriously, didn't anyone play test this?

The map looks pretty good, and the traps are pleasingly fiendish in their execution, but I might skip it for the time being.

---

MAP28 - Messe Noire



So there's some pretty poor lighting in this level. Large areas and dark textures can fade to black quite quickly in software, and tend to need to be brighter to compensate. And while dark silhouettes can work quite nicely with low horizon lines, with canyon walls this high it the effect is lost. Adding directional moonlight might help to bring the exteriors to life.

The interiors are brighter, but still quite flat. There's a pair of wall lights in one of the corridors that work well in creating outlines and back lighting, and I'd tempted to use more of them, rather than the ceiling lights which are isolated from the walls. Given the Quake setting, torches in wall niches might work too.

Gameplay was pretty reasonable. There were some nice Quake type moments, and fairly generous resources to run and gun with. The Cyberdemon at the end probably needed a bigger platform to stretch this legs though.

[Pinchy]

Some excellent reviews for Parasite Hive here.

I understand and agree with most of the issues with the map, I started it a long time ago.

Since then I've learned so much and added so many things to my mapping loadout there would be many fundamental changes, such as careful map repopulation, extra texture mixing which also ties in with better texture changes at height variation and solidly marked progression, with key colours as well as the visual one.

I already added the colour trait to my recently made TNT 2 map, along with the unique texture matching and new monsters in an old area signifying change, the progression door can be seen and heard opening from the switch there, too.

[Dylan Jarvis]

MAP14 Purification Plant:

First impressions weren't that great... a lot of brown and a little difficult to figure out where to go next. But as the map unfolded, I enjoyed it more and more. There was good usage of enemies here and the keys were fun to find IMO. This map is good but not that memorable. Hopefully the next map will be good right?

[Dylan Jarvis]

MAP15 Crumbling Necropolis:

Sigh I really wanted to like this map. I tried so hard but I can't. Let's get the positives out of the way first:

This Map is absolutely beautiful, I agree with what everyone has said about the aesthetics and structures. This map (for the most part) is pretty fair there is a shit-ton of health and ammo to go around here. Most of the enemies were used well enough that they weren't to annoying. And for once the secret exit wasn't the worst thing to find. Now the Negatives:

I hate how big this map is. I don't care what anyone has to say about big maps, but I don't ever want to spend an hour or longer on a map in doom. This isn't a good big map like the Drake O'brien maps from TNT. This map feels like a slog after the first 30 minutes. I hate how multiple times I hit switches and had no fucking clue what they did so I spent another 5-10 minutes trying to find out what opened up and where. There is also way too many secrets. I got bored of trying to find the last two secrets so I clipped and ran through walls to find them. I also found the map hard to navigate, there's a lot of guns and various Items perched up on tall pillars and I couldn't figure out how to get some of them. Now I said most of the enemies were used well in this map. There were way too many Arch-Viles used here, seriously. It's not fun fighting tons of arch-viles in open spaces. That is a sin in Doom Mapping IMO. I also found some of the rev snipers annoying as well but I never raged at them. There's also way too many teleport spots and key doors used in this map also making it confusing to navigate. The ending secret area went way overboard with arch-viles, 2 tele in on each side, that was bullshit IMO.

This is by far my least favorite map in this wad and I can't see my self replaying this map ever again. I hope the rest of the wad is fun because this one left a bitter taste in my mouth. I'm not surprised though I usually hate MAP15's in Doom 2 anyway they always seem to be too big in every wad I've played (except Plutonia Experiment and Scythe 1) So okay rant over, Sorry for my brutal honesty. In conclusion: A map can be big, beautiful and well designed, but if it lacks good gameplay it makes it a terrible map overall.

I'm glad that slog is over with onto the next map!

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP28 Messe Noire 5/5

I was quite surprised to see a very much normal map from a mapper I considered to be an extremely unfair slaughtermapper. the opening courtyard is a nice scare but isn't tough, and neither is much of the level until the cathedral part with loads of zombiemen and a spiderdemon. pretty nasty hitscanner sorcery happens there, so a plasma gun from a side area and some well-stocked ammo plus the blue key really help. behind the spiderdemon is a door that, reveals the red key back at the starting courtyard? That's the one thing I don't really like much in this level, the backtracking for that key, but it's a minor blemish. that last courtyard is a very nasty ending. if you know how to get the BFG secret though, you can use it to bumrush the viles, kill the arachnotrons with rockets, and hand it to cybie pretty easily. easier settings don't contain nasty side snipegunners though, so those guys are also on the hitlist for the higher difficulties, right after the viles of course. All in all, this map was a rather welcoming surprise from this mapper and a damn fun playing map.

I guess one thing of notice is that the Quake switch textures don't seem to react in a way. they work as intended, but they don't animate upon press. And I word my sentences really weird.

[tourniquet]

SoundofDoomDoors said:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/pq44kw8q72accnl/noescape.lmp

Details: (MAP29 SPOILERS) There's a way to get into the red key zone from the hub without hitting the switch/running over the sector that triggers the cacos and pain elementals. I'd say leave it, but there's no way out once you strafe run over like I did in the demo. I noclipped out in my real run after successfully getting the key, then triggered the cacos and PEs afterward because I felt bad.

That's a nice find, cheers for pointing that out and the demo. Gonna fix it.

I know that i join the club rather irregularly but since there's a new Sunlust beta available i'd like to give it my vote for next month. I've allready played through the set once but it's undoubtedly worth to play through again. I know quite a few regulars aren't much into difficult/slaughtermaps but i still recommend to give it a try (perhaps on lower skills). There's a ton of mind blowing stuff to experience.

Edit: @Veinen i hope you'll persevere till the end with your max attempts, anyway just a reminder that Map29 can be played on CL2 or CL9. The latter one contains a bit more visual extravaganza

[SoundofDoomDoors]

If we do Sunlust, I'll play through it on UV with Demonsteele, and maybe attempt selected levels with vanilla. I played CC4 solo that way and it was great (I've played a lot of it in MP with samsara).

For today's map:

"MAP28's a pretty wild ride. The start's amazing, the church setpiece having two ways to approach it is great, and the ending's an awesome run-for-your-life moment. About the church, I like how the two ways in have distinct pros and cons. The side door lets you funnel and murder the hitscanners and AV, but trying to take cover from the mastermind will get you killed by the arachnotrons. Using the front door gives easy access to cover from the MM and a good position to deal with the arachnotrons, but the hitscanners will shred you. I entered from the side, killed the zombies, and ran to the front to deal with the arachnotrons, then took out the MM from range.
I wish I'd demoed my exit. I think I was vile jumped towards the end on my second attempt at the last part. The first attempt, where I tried to fight, ended in death. There must be 7 or 8 AVs in that part because I must've killed 4 or 5 before one of them cooked me. But on my successful attempt, I managed to squeeze past the cyber for the exit. If the map maker actually wants the player to fight there, maybe the switch to lower the lift up to the cyber should be covered, and there should be a switch elsewhere in the arena to uncover it, kind of like the way you open the door at the start. Definitely don't give the cyber more room. He's already too easy to get past. If I can do it, a doom god would laugh at it.
89% kills 50% secrets"

[obake]

Map 26 : Surreptitious Ichor by dobu and cannonball
Played on UV, with 100% kills, 86% secrets, and 60% items. Time was 54:28, death count: a lot.

You guys weren't kidding when you said this was one of the toughest of the set. The beginning alone is enough to create a lot of deaths. I have nothing against openings like it, except some of the weapon placement here was a little annoying. The SSG is not bad, and is what I recommend going for first. The chaingun happens to be blocked by a specter, though, which was very annoying, and the berserk is guarded by a baron.

Visually the map is good, though not my personal favorite. There's cool details and neat rooms, and I like how many of them look out into other areas. But after awhile, it all sorta started to blend together.

The fights were tough as nails for the most part, and I have to admit, I got bored of some of the archvile encounters. A few were fine, others just felt more tedious than they really needed to be. The first Cyberdemon room (where there's three or four of the darn guys) was a blast at first, as monsters of all kinds patrolled the area. Once it was just the Cyberdemons left, the room honestly got kind of annoying. I'd often get hit by a long distance rocket from a Cyber during my efforts to start the next encounter. This isn't so much a problem that needs fixing or anything, as the Cybers are doing what they're supposed to. However, a little more cover from their sight might help things be less frustrating.

Overall, this was a very good map, but one that takes a lot of time and patience to get through. Note that I got zero secrets until after I had cleared the last archie encounter before the exit. I searched about fifteen minutes to see if I could scrounge any secrets. I got three, and was able to clear out the rest of the baddies. I really didn't expect to get 100% kills from this map, honestly.

[Capellan]

Alfonzo said:

I feel like the effort is half-baked if I'm restricting myself to bandying words around on the fly.

I've only watched the first stream so far but I thought you had some pretty interesting stuff to say in it, so bandy away :)

[TheOrganGrinder]

Okay, yeah, let's give this another go with the tweaked and fixed level. Hurt Me Plenty, pistol starting at MAP27 and then continuous from there on out.

MAP27: Engraved Bones

I think this provides a nice change of pace from the sprawling scale and cavernous arenas of the previous map; I'm pretty sure you could drop the whole of the real estate here into a single one of Surreptitious Ichor's vast playgrounds twice over. Which isn't to say this is easy; secrets aside, you've got your two shotguns to contend with quite the monstrous menagerie of foes, though many of the combat situations don't seem like they'd be trivialised by the presence of heavier firepower. Close-quarters combat and rampaging arch-viles are the order of the day; the climax of the levels involves releasing a pair of the bastards into the level to undo all your hard work as you trawl through the whole of the musty catacomb again, looking for additional keys. Aethetically it is, as has been noted, an Egyptian-style tomb, with all that implies: yellow-brown rock, wall paintings, lots of right angles and cramped confines. Coming at it afresh, I can say that I certainly enjoyed what it had to offer.

[Firedust]

My vote goes to Sunlust cause it's amazing and people should play it. It's not as difficult as SWTW so I am sure pretty much everyone will find it fine even on UV.

Also gonna throw in another suggestion here if Sunlust isn't going to be considered: the 3 Favillesco eps that have not been played in the club yet + Oblivion. Just slightly longer awesome classic UD eps, that's all.

[SFoZ911]

Are you serious? Everyone will find Sunlust fine on UV? What version of Sunlust have *you* played?

[dobu gabu maru]

Demon of the Well said:

* Hey Dobu, remember that frivolous one-time green armor you were so inexplicably smitten with in map 03 for some reason? How about making the secret BFG here one-time as recompense? Seems like that'd make the little gimmick much more impactful.... *chortles darksomely*

Ah, but there I'd be potentially tarnishing the good name of cannonball! I'm likely to save it for some solo effort where I'm free to do whatever the hell I want. I'll look into working with your other suggestions though; your post was an illuminating and fascinating read!

MAP28: Demonologist’s inclusion was a bit of a risky one. He’s known for maps that possess a very austere tone and some truly menacing gameplay, punishing people that fail to play at their peak performance. Luckily he tones his high expectations down for this map, though it’s also clear he’s not holding up a banner that announces “come one, come all!” MAP28 is a feisty map with a fiery opening, likely crushing any player that has the balls to pistol start it. Once the AV twins are down the map cools off for a bit though it never feels inviting (the big hitscanner hall can rip you to shreds unless you know the proper tactic). I was able to use the secret BFG on the finale this time and was surprised with how manageable it was as long as you get some good shots in prior. Overall, I really like this map and feel that it’s the best straight challenge NOVA II has to offer, though those starting specters still make me sigh in frustration.

[Dylan Jarvis]

MAP31 Fever Blues:

Great start to tonight. I enjoyed this map it's pretty small and fun. The only real complaint is the the room with all the revenants in it. I almost ran out of ammo and I'm doing continuous which is pretty crazy. The yellow key secret exit was pretty cool. I like this map. I get a glimpse at the next map and 1338 monster count. Oh boy.

[Demon of the Well]

I look forward to playing Sunlust as well, but it's still being tooled around with and I see no need to rush it (incidentally, I will be surprised and disappointed if Sunlust on UV is the sort of thing that "everyone will be fine with" given how widely tastes in action vary in the Club alone). On that note, just to get the task out of the way, I will formally vote for Armadosia V2 for next month's WAD.

(I fully expect to end up playing STRAIN instead, of course. ;) )

Map 27 -- Engraved Bones - 148% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA (uses beta D3)
'Engraved Bones' is an Obsidian map, and so it does just what it says on the tin, nothing less and nothing more. Me and my circular logic again, right? But hear me out: I put it to you that of all the mappers participating in NOVA II, Obsidian is the one with the most set or 'finished' style, a mapper who has found his creative identity and comfortably settled into it. Practically every map he has made (or at least that he has shared publicly) follows a rather specific template from which he very seldom deviates--small, neat, concise, quickly-constructed compact curio-boxes that each play like a carefully staged exhibit demonstrating (but seldom exploring) some clever use of idtech1's basic functionalities to create a more 'articulated' play environment than one tends to see in the average Doom map.

Aesthetically, 'Engraved Bones' is perhaps a bit of an underachiever, though it's hardly painful to behold. The setting itself--another nameless desert tomb--is something I'm personally quite partial to, as I've said in the past, and it is a very straightforward, no-frills take on that theme, with plenty of unadorned sandstone and buff-colored masonry predominating, with occasional pharaonic murals here and there to add some zest. Architecture is purely pragmatic, with very little ornamentation--almost everything is right angles and inset corridors arranged in a very regimented way, as though the floorplan were constructed with respect to a grid, or perhaps like the whole is something built out of prefabs or modules. This highly rational, practical approach is something one could argue as being 'realistic' if the Egyptian theme is taken as the core of the map, but it in combination with the universally small scale of construction it does mean that most of the halls and chambers are rather anonymous, and none of them are really visually striking. It's a very clean-looking environment, generally, but between the blocky shapes, unswervingly tan/brown color scheme, lack of any variation in scale, and modest lighting work it all comes off as a mite bland visually. Cool BGM, though, I know I've heard it before but can't place from where.

In terms of progression the map isn't as straightforward as one might assume from its small size, although I can't tell if this was fully intentional or just sort of the way things worked out. The obligatory sector/linedef gadgetry on display here is fairly understated in comparison to some other stuff I've seen Obsidian make--there's a simple timed switch puzzle using lift-sector 'shields' in the center, and what is basically a perpetually 'levitating' platform to ride after the red bars, preceded by a strange collapsing three-post footbridge of sorts (which I personally found a tad obnoxious, actually), but that's about it for the exhibition. The level's real quirk is that it uses one of those old-timey teleport pads that takes you to different destinations depending on which direction you enter it from (said functionality not expressly telegraphed in any way that I was able to see), I ended up taking a surprisingly large amount of time playing the level as a result of not cluing into this very quickly. I've seen this device used dozens of times before at this point in my Doom career, of course, so I don't really have an excuse for not realizing what was going on here sooner....perhaps I fell victim to a foolish assumption that this is not something that a present-day map would integrate into mandatory progression (the previous time I encountered it was in a quirky optional/secret setup in a map by Ribbiks, incidentally), which is not really a valid conceit despite its relative popularity in the here and now. My imperceptiveness aside, given that two of the four destinations are superfluous, and the map's small size, it seems a mite needless, really, like it was put there for the sake of having something out of the ordinary rather than to serve any particular purpose.

Another issue I personally tend to have with Obsidian's maps is that the gameplay in them often seems secondary to the map's role as a coffee table curio. Over time he has adopted the arch-vile as his favorite monster, and it is generally they that give the encounters in his maps most of their zest; I'm curious as to where the fellow who can be preemptively squished via the first secret might've shown up if I hadn't foiled his plans, what sort of trouble he might've caused, but his two brothers later on don't make a particularly strong showing, the first having a simple game of tug-of-war with you given the narrow hallway where he is encountered, and the second (and his generally meatier entourage) is impotently trapped behind a blocking line that renders him nothing but a particularly resilient 'door with health.' Outside of this, most of the map's flavor comes from a noticeably limited supply of healing items (so you are held accountable for your mistakes--I got hit by a revenant early on and so was again near death for a goodly amount of time), with the only other significant monster encounter being the closets of deaf revenants (who tend to be fought in small groups of 2 or so on account of said deafness) guarding one of the early objectives.

How much one enjoys the average Obsidian map is of course largely a function of the degree to which one is inclined towards the aforementioned 'template.' In my case, that is generally "not very", and this map hasn't really bucked the trend, I'm afraid--I felt it was too clipped and terse to develop much of a sense of setting, and the gameplay mostly seemed phoned-in (that vile-snuffing secret is cool, though), the most memorable thing about the map being that mumly confounding 4-way teleporter....incidentally, given the map's generally concise nature, I think carving different symbols into the floor or something similar to suggest the teleporter's nature might be a good step to improve flow, that as a bonus would fit neatly into the desert tomb aesthetic. Other than that, all I can say is something I've said more than once before when reviewing Obsidian's maps--he clearly has talent, but I'd really like to see him leave his comfort zone and focus more on combat and/or expansive settings in lieu of funky little sector-gadgets. Perhaps if Maskim Xul ever rises from the depths, eh?

[Firedust]

Hahahaha I apologise for saying everyone will be fine with Sunlust on UV, it's just I didn't find it as tricky as SWTW or Sunder where I had to occasionally save-spam. :D

[Dylan Jarvis]

MAP32 Megiddo II:

Oh boy here we go I just got done complaining about MAP15 last night so I was ready for the worst. This was surprisingly amazing IMO I'll break each section down I'm gonna have to borrow some notes from some of the other reviewers to help remember which part is which though.

The First Part I did was Dave the Daring's section where there was a huge square room with a cyber and revenants and mancubi surrounding the area. I used the cyber to my advantage here and had him help me kill everything. The side rooms were pretty good, the only one I hated was the one with lava and 2 Archies and multiple Revs come out of a closet because there isn't much cover here. Luckily for one of the later parts, I was able to take care of a late archy ambush with an Invincibility secret to boot. Pretty good start, on to the next!

The Second Part I did was AD_79's section which had a circular mapping style going on This might have been the most well designed of all the side sections. I also enjoyed the Cyberdemon encounter here I was able to get him to fight most of the cacos. This part wasn't too hard and the secret was nice of him to give because I burned through blue armours so fast in this map.

The Third part I did was Noisyvelvet's section: This one was the hardest of the side sections. I went straight for the hitscanners first then took out the revs. There was a shit-ton of Cacos and PEs here. That surprise Archy ambush was insane. It was the first time I went flying without cheating. I found a cool cliffside area with 4BFGs RLs, Megasphere and another Invincibility which came in handy.

The Fourth Part I did was Jaxxoon R's section which was the easiest. I feel like this one should have been done first. There were a few Arch-vile spots but the overall difficulty was easy. I liked the layout though and it was a nice break from the others.

The Last of the Side areas was Pinchy's section. This was my second favorite part of the map. I enjoyed almost every encounter here especially where the imps and the arch-vile come in. The Spider-Mastermind was devilishly placed at the end of a long Dock like platform I managed to rush 1 BFG blast on it's ass for the win.

The Finale area by tourniquet was the best part of the map and the most difficult. I died probably 20 times here (most coming from the damn Arch-Viles). I just ran around didn't shoot till I hit all the switches and then I let the monsters fight it out like a gladiator arena match. I think there were 3 total Cybers here and I never had to fight them because there was so many enemies in this pretty small area. The part where the Cacos come in was incredible (them being my favorite doom enemy). After all the carnage was done there was one last encounter with a shit-load of Arch-viles and oh my god that invincibility was almost not enough but I finally beat it and I was proud to see all the dead bodies piled up around me. =)

So overall this map was easily the best of the wad so far. It completely made me forget about my nightmares with map 15 and realize that big maps can be good. I did have a few enemies that I never got around to fighting though. For example there were 24 zombiemen, 2 Revs 7 Lost Souls and 1 cacodemon that never tele'd in. I found some of the Straggler lost souls here.



Overall Incredible map.

[Obsidian]

Demon of the Well said:

Perhaps if Maskim Xul ever rises from the depths, eh?

Heh.

To be perfectly honest at the moment I'm parked in front of a rather sizable roadblock with Maskim Xul: as many people have noticed I don't really work with large maps and there's always a sense of "What the hell do I do now?" when it comes to fleshing it out. Maybe I'll try get another mapper on board to wrangle what I have into shape sometime, but that probably won't happen until I finish school for the year.

And fun fact, I made Engraved Bones in about 4 or 5 hours. Who knows how it might have turned out if I spent more time on it? Not me. :P

[scifista42]

MAP26 - "Surreptitious Ichor" by dobu gabu maru & cannonball

I keep reading the map's name as Superstitious Ichor. :)

I would expect such a map to appear in Sunlust more than NOVA II - although it's a strange reason to complain, it certainly felt somewhat out of place here, for being so much non-amateurish. The first half of the map had good gameplay, the second one's gameplay was too hard for me even with saves and I didn't finish it. Both parts looked excellent and their layouts and architecture were great too.

[Andrea Rovenski]

Maps 21-25
MAP21 - Good
MAP22 - Meh
MAP23 - Good
MAP24 - Alright
MAP25 - Alright

Sorry if my notes are brief, I don't like writing up huge reviews for each map like everyone else. Hopefully I'll get to the last 5 maps before the month's end.

[scifista42]

MAP27 - "Engraved Bones" by Obsidian

Standard Obsidian's small and gimmicky level. Not bad - although the progression could have been much more intuitive. Mainly the four way teleporter should be replaced by something more obvious, and then there's the fact that you must backtrack to random places after pressing random switches. Combat itself was also gimmicky from pistol start (temporarily requiring outrunning monsters), but that actually seemed good to me, at least for being unusual. Weapon + ammo distribution was appropriate, even if limited. Visual and architectural style was nice and polished, as Obsidian always does it. Verdict: Good map.

[gaspe]

MAP29 - Anaemia

Kills: 96% | Items: 98% | Secrets: 50%

The end is nigh. Gorgeous map, and full of monsters. There's only red and black (stones, metal, blood) to define the theme of this abstract map, and it's really well performed. The central metal structure of the hub is really good, and the hanging cages are a nice touch. The thing I liked the most were the visuals outside the playing area. Very tough traps, but there also many quite moments between the most big fights. I actually liked the not constant pressure and it gave some more ambiance. Awesome map. I would really like to know who made what here, both authors styles blend really well.