The DWmegawad Club plays: NOVA II

[tourniquet]

Demon of the Well said:

Map 32 -- Megiddo II - 105% Kills / 90% Secrets - FDA, 2 Deaths (uses beta D3)

Good job, really enjoyed watching the whole thing.

How in the world does one reach the revenant-ledge that is apparently flagged as a secret?

There are some stalagmites, aranged in a circle, nearby. Step in the middle and the barrier lowers.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP17: Zebetite

I almost wonder if at this point in the WAD, the levels are being deliberately arranged with contrast in mind, so as to most strongly emphasise each map's traits. From MAP15's sprawling, open layout and freedom to set one's own pace, to MAP16's compact floorplan and sweetly intense encounters, we now arrive at this big and intricately detailed techbase level, and the change in scale, theme, and visual fidelity is striking. Having played through this map it also serves to emphasise just how attractive MAP16's much simpler archtecture manages to be, but that's not to the discredit of what's been done here.

I'd divide the basic layout into the north-eastern "core" of the map, with intriguingly-shaped multi-level areas connected by barred passageways and window gratings; the vast, open-air slime reservoir; and the two vaults connected to the core by catwalks that curve and wind high above the reservoir's slime pools. It's all absolutely gorgeous, with custom textures put to good use creating a grimier feel more in like with the first couple of Quake games than the vanilla colour choices. Opposition is on the heavy side and gameplay is often quite demanding, especially during early navigation of the core area when monsters are shovelled with enthusiasm into often tight confines. There's an entertaining battle with cacodemons and pain elementals over the reservoir later in the map, though I found that some of the impassable linedefs used to create ground-level fences and railings had the effect of significantly impeding the movement of flying enemies, so the demonic aerial armada doesn't have quite the freedom of movement it appears to.

On the down side, it feels to me that the gameplay relies too heavily on repeated "locked room" encounters for its difficulty; there's nothing inherently wrong with them, but to face one in the dark corridors where the blue key is found, another in the reactor/vault with the yellow key, yet another in the antechamber to the exit booth... it all felt less exciting than it should have.

On a somewhat more personal note I'm also not fond of the way the monster "waiting rooms" are placed so far from the rest of the map geometry, distorting the level's apparent size on the automap. I'm pretty sure they could be placed much closer to the main areas of the level without the monsters within becoming audible, placing them on the other side of the map rotated by 180 degrees if necessary. It seems an odd oversight when the map's author has gone to the trouble of tagging the linedefs of the inaccessible "backdrop" sectors around the map as invisible, lavishing care on the level's automap presentation to at least that extent.

I left the map at 2/3 secrets and, intrigued by the work that's gone into this one, opened it up in the editor after I was done; the secret I missed was sector 1365, on the walkway connecting the north-eastern core to the yellow key vault/reactor area. In the editor it's clear how that area is opened; what's less clear to me is what the visual 'tell' or other clue to the player is supposed to be, since it doesn't appear to me that the nearby switch linedef has anything about it that says "push me." I'm probably missing something.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP17 Zebetite 3/5

in this dazzling map, tourniquet provides a moderately-hard challenge. a lot of Ribbiks-like combat here, the most notable being the cyberdemon and nobles-behind-cages jaunt where the yellow key was. This time I got the plasma gun to deal with the cyber while hitting the knights and barons with the rocket launcher. that tactic was a lot more comforting than just hitting everyone with rockets/occasional SSG. regardless, that room is still my least favorite room, due to the hardness of infighting (having to get the nobles to hit the cyber instead of vice versa). rest of the level is coordinated setpieces too. last room is also notable for some teleport ambushes and caged enemies rising and lowering.

[obake]

Map 31 : Fever Blues by NoisyVelvet (the newest version)
Played on HNTR, HMP, and UV, 100% kills and secrets on each. Average time: 23 minutes, death count: 9

This was a bit of a trollish map, to be honest. I had a good time playing it, especially as health is plentiful, as well as ammo. Perhaps a bit too many shells.

With so many hitscanners in open areas, the abundant health and armor really helps.

The most annoying part of this map is the Revenant hallway. Someone mentioned it before, but it seems like these Revs take more shots than should be necessary. They are also prone to sniping from so many angles, and don't even try berserk punching them!

That said, the idea is implemented well. I'm sure the intention was to have an annoying hallway.

There does seem to be a bug. The first windowed room overlooking the YK room, there is a secret door leading back into the Rev hallway. For whatever reason, the door sector is damaging. At first I thought I was getting hit by a Chaingunner, but nope, the floor behaves the same as nukage, which is really strange. Likely just an oversight.

[dobu gabu maru]

Bravo Demon, kudos on getting through it. Hopefully Veinen hasn't lost his mind attempting to max it... (there will be edits to it too so it's not like a max is necessary right now)

MAP16: Brilliant map. Short and spunky, being tightly woven and having some nail-bitingly tough traps. Like MAP12 there’s not too much to say about it other than it’s perfect for its size and does what it needs to do. Definitely a keeper.

MAP17: If this doesn’t put tourniquet on your list of “mappers I should pay attention to”, I’m not sure what will. It’s a masterfully crafted slaughter-esque map, largely thanks to tourniquet’s style—it can feel extremely busy at times (I think the texture choices here tend to clash more than MAP32 and MAP29), but the cool thing is that you always feel like there’s something to look at, whether it be scrolling red tek, arches in the ceiling, or gratings concealing some far-off vista. The action is crazy and fun for the most part—the big warp-in at the starting rooms is kind of a "meh" encounter as there aren't a lot of ways to go about it—and overall it’s a highlight of E2, at least from a design standpoint.

The only change I’d implement is to make the switches that lift and lower the main elevator impassable so players don’t up step up onto there.

[Firedust]

I agree with Dobu here. Is tourniquet really a newbie mapper? Map 17 is frigging amazing. When playing through it I got a Ribbiks-y kinda vibe and then went to check if he's made any more for the set and voila - he actually collaborated with the man himself. I wonder if I'll be able to tell who designed which part lol

Also just wanna add that out of the maps I've played so far (1-17, no secret ones), I loved 15 and 17 the most. I feel those 2 outshine the stuff produced by some of the regular mappers on the forums.

Would be cool to see a 'Nova best alumni' megawad one day. Just throwing that out there.

[Veinen]

Good writeup on Megiddo II DotW, I found myself agreeing with you on many occasions.

Alright, here are my demos for maps 31 and 32.

Map31: Fever Blues by NoisyVelvet

Bit of a mixed bag I think; features some good parts, some weird parts and some less than good parts. I like how already at the beginning we have a sizable chunk of enemies just waiting to be awoken, too bad the logical progression in maxes immediately leads to the armor and the blursphere which lessens the effect of the numerous hitscanners to an extent. I definitely like what happens after grabbing the BK even though the ambush itself is not really unexpected. The Revs on their silver lanes on the other hand are pretty dull since the most effective way to kill them is just one at a time with the SSG and there is no benefit at all in playing more aggressive. The short rocky outdoor cave air is decent although I'd probably replace the Imps with hitscanners. Unexpected gigantic stack of crates is unexpected and gameplay there is uneventful. Nothing of much value would be lost if the whole area was scrapped to be honest. Mastermind starting to get crushed is a strange one; why not have the crusher be switch activated? The switch could be at the end of the small ledge with a handful of Imps on the edge of the room for example. Ammo balance was pretty tight and I ran out of shells when cleaning up the main area. I like that, the need to plan your ammo use and monitor the ammo situation just makes things interesting. Besides, there is actually more ammo but it's scattered around a bit so the route you take makes some difference too. Not to mention that I didn't even go grab the PG at all (I would have but the "door" to the secret closed behind me and I couldn't be bothered to go back anymore).

Visually it's a pretty wild one and I do too get the feel that maybe this isn't supposed to be a map that should be taken very seriously. The exit room especially looks pretty poor but in an intentional way. The map's decent fun all in all and a needed breather between 15 and 32.

Map32: Megiddo II by several mappers

Beastly map as expected. I'm gonna guess this is easily the longest map in the wad as it took me around 50 minutes for a max (would have been under if not for an extremely annoying Caco who wanted to prolong his death by hiding in the background in the final arena heh). Apart from the fatigue that sets in at some point in long demos, I thought this was actually relatively painless to max! It was really only NoisyVelvet's area that gave me slight trouble, mostly because of the Cyber who can snipe you from afar in many a spot in the map. The only other death in my initial playthrough was in Pinchy's section in the first Imp trap where teleporting back into the horde took me by surprise. Before playing I was a little concerned about the fact that tourniquet made the finale (since he CAN design really tough combat) but I made it in first try without much hassle so I was pretty confident I wouldn't die there in a legit max attempt either. Well, I did not take my own stupidity, that raises its ugly head at the most inopportune of times, into account of course... Other than the end fight, I think the demo went pretty smoothly and uneventfully so hopefully anyone who decides to watch doesn't get too bored.

Anyway, onto the map itself. First zone I vist is NoisyVelvet's red and black hell, which as I said was probably the toughest one and it's also one of the best ones. Probably would have been way more convenient ammo-wise to visit this zone later but I decided to choose early deaths over losing my mind (thanks for your concern though dobu, by the way :p) after repeatedly dying 30 minutes into the map. So basically spamming BFG was out of the question and some time had to be spent gathering rockets. I doubt I would've used the BFG much here anyway since I don't think it really would be that much more effective against the non-boss monsters anyway in this environment. Cyber is obviously the main threat here since he really dominates most of the map, so being aware of what he's doing is a must or you'll get rocked. There's plenty of health so you can spare a face rocket or two if it comes to that though... Good use of Cacos and PEs too as they do work pretty well in this environment. The damaging blood everywhere is another noticeable feature of course and I like it a lot since having a radsuit on and another one nearby is yet another thing to be aware of. I also like the ammo placement, which makes a difference especially if it's the first zone to visit. So yeah, overall quite enjoyable starter zone by NoisyVelvet. I had some weird issues with sector 4650 that raises upon activating one of the switches but I'll have to see if I can replicate it to see if there really is something there that needs fixing. Linedef 36944 behind some Revs likes to absorb rockets & other forms of fire, which is rather inconvenient. Thing 1915 is too close to the lift so that it sticks to it while the lift starts going upwards, which looks kind of dumb.

Next up is Pinchy's zone, which I actually managed to correctly guess to being his work. I think it must have been the ascent to the top of the tower which lead me to suspect that this is Pinchy's part. Anyway, it's a pretty nice looking submap to go through, certainly like the looks of this better than map02. Gameplay is highly set-piece driven consisting of very little memorable combat in between them. Love the Caco ambush as a good fuck you -move right near the start heh. It's trivial if you know what's coming but it could be really dickish on the first time around if you have the wrong weapon in hand, like DotW mentioned. Took full advantage of the malfunctioning (?) escape prevention mechanism of the first Imp trap but in fairness it can be handled without much hassle if you're willing to waste some cells. Next Imp trap doesn't offer an easy escape so a couple BFG shots are necessary to make some breathing space. Fucked up a bit here with going for the Megasphere secret without taking care of the two Cacos hiding in an alcove so I had to ascend to the top a second time. RK battle is pretty cool, but once again the BFG makes everything so easy. I had to check out how to enter the Rev ledge secret too actually as the circle of stalagmites is a rather obscure hint. Pretty enjoyable zone by Pinchy all in all. Obviously a bit surpised of the style of the gameplay because the only map by Pinchy I've played beforehand is map02 of this wad. But it looks like we'll have another Pinchy map later so I know I'll be expecting something more like this from that!

I'm not even sure which zone I went next; I think it was the small and easy one before the large one. I really had no idea who made this before checking it out, but to be fair I thought it was jmickle and not Jaxxoon who participated in this map in the first place for some reason. But yeah, now that I know I guess I can see some similarities in style to Demon Trench. This is really the breather zone of the map in my opinion since it's really easy and really short too. Ambushes are pretty mild and easily dealt with, and especially if you have foreknowledge. I agree that the pair of Revs that DotW mentions should go or the ambush should be designed differently. It really isn't much of an ambush when you deliberately go trigger it... These two guys actually weren't the ones that I missed on the "failed" max I mentioned though as I happened to stumble upon this ambush on my initial playthrough already so I knew they were there.

Dave the Daring and his old school-ish feeling "hubmap". This definitely seems like a step-down in quality compared to Purification Plant both aesthetically and layout-wise. The layout is really the epitome of a hubmap as it consists of the main arena and three separate side-areas with not much connectivity between them. The most interesting side quest is the one with Arach and a highly damaging floor. The monster placement there is good I think with the Arachs firing from advantageous positions and Revs creeping in initially if you wander too far into the hall. The AVs and Revs that get released after the switch is activated work quite well too and they can deliver some punishment too if you're not ready and quick. The SM side area and the platforming one are pretty simple stuff both. I opted to take out the Archies in the platforming section with the RL from afar but I suppose you could jsut rush to them with the BFG if you're feeling lucky. The Cacos, PEs and Archies that get released at certain points in the main arena are a good idea of course but they're made extremely ineffective by the monster blocking lines.

Before the grand finale we still have AD_79's zone, which is pretty fucking awesome. Really good flow in this one and it's fun as hell to blast through. Good flow and while it probably doesn't even have the most monsters out of all the side areas, it definitely feels the bloodiest. Coming into this with full or near-full ammo helps a lot in gaining momenmtum and clearing some space initially. For me the most surprising ambush was those three Revs that spawn simultaneously to a punching distance when you activate the lift, those guys nearly ripped me apart on my first playthrough. On the other I was already hauling ass to the tunnels when the Cyber appeared since I had a bad feeling about the YK grab. It was here that I missed the two monsters earlier, they were those two HKs that raise from the ground once you go through the portal for the Soulsphere so it was mainly my own fault for not studying the area enough. So yeah, this section was great fun and my favorite out of the five. It's visually the best one also so there's really not much to criticize here I think.

And then there's the finale. Tourniquet is already a great mapper with an awesome mapping style in both visual and gameplay aspects, both of which are a bit akin to Ribbiks' and Insane_gazebo's styles. So while visually everything before this in the map pales in comparison to the finale (and the hub too) it's nothing to be ashamed of. Combat is super fun slaughter but nothing really hardcore though, which I am most grateful for. Archie placement early is annoying in a good way and the did manage to get a few shots in in the demo. Loving the mass AV surpise too even if it's just BFG spam with an Invuln. I tried really hard to royally fuck it up there though; going for the switch with just 100 or so cells is really not a good idea and I really don't know why I did it considering in the previous demo I did collect as much cells as I could before unleashing the AV wave. Didn't die in the end but came too close for comfort. Again the damaging blood is a really good addition and keeps you on your toes. Wouldn't change a thing here, great work.

Overall this was a fun map to max, or at least if you enjoy maxing long maps like I do. Perhaps not as good as the original Megiddo but that one had amazing mappers like dobu, cannonball and mouldy contributing so ehh, hard to top that. Difficulty was little lower than I expected but that's not necessarily a bad thing at all. Would max again, as crazy as that may sound :)

Well geez, this turned out quite the wall of text. My apologies, I hope it's not all unreadable incoherent rambling.

Edit: Oh yeah, ghost monster appearance in NoisyVelvet's area when an AV rezzed a crushed Rev and a crushed Demon. They weren't much trouble though, just took me embarassingly long to realize they can't be killed the usual way.

[Ribbiks]

as an addendum to dobu's 2nd post "re: why are there non-new mappers in the wad": the idea at the time (as I recall) was to pair up new mappers with veteran mappers, under the assumption that working together would be good experience for both parties. I offered to be a vet and was paired with tourn to make what eventually became m29, which I think turned out well. m17 and m32 are enough to make anyone wonder how tourn ended up being classified as a newbie in the first place, though. The dude has an unreal patience for elaborate design, I hope he'll surprise us with some more fancy maps someday :D

[baja blast rd.]

More like Veinen of the Well. :D

Just curious: how long are those runs of map32 (DotW's and Veinen's)?

[Veinen]

rdwpa said:

More like Veinen of the Well. :D

Just curious: how long are those runs of map32 (DotW's and Veinen's)?

I blame the long map! :D

My max is about 50 minutes and judging by the skipsec count, I'd wager DotW's FDA is somewhere around 100 minutes long (gonna have to watch that tomorrow).

[gaspe]

MAP18 - Vile Complex

Kills: 100% | Items: 100% | Secrets: 83%

A Very basic map. The Good work on the lightning makes it look less dull. The small metal mazes were kinda cute. I didn't enjoyed the gameplay so much. Chaingunners swarms. Killing all the pinkies in the locked rooms was boring. The last hell Knight maze was meh.
I didn't liked this map.

[tourniquet]

Veinen said:

Alright, here are my demos for maps 31 and 32.

Cool, gonna watch it in a bit.

TheOrganGrinder said:

the secret I missed was sector 1365, on the walkway connecting the north-eastern core to the yellow key vault/reactor area. In the editor it's clear how that area is opened; what's less clear to me is what the visual 'tell' or other clue to the player is supposed to be, since it doesn't appear to me that the nearby switch linedef has anything about it that says "push me." I'm probably missing something.

Yeah i agree, the only visual clue is a randomly blinking light which might even be hard to spot on a high gamme level, gonna rework that.

->
Map 17 is acutally pretty old, i made it shortly after Mayhem2048, basicly me toying around with some eventually complimenting textures and a curvy layout. So the map was actually finished before NovaII had even started, i just had no real use for it by the time and first got back to it a few months later when i decided to contribute it.

As for the discussion about me being a newbie, i don't know if i can give a proper answer to it. I sure may have been a bit more experienced by the time joined Nova2 but nonetheless i was actively mapping just a couple of months. I guess my learning curve was pretty steep, just look at my DWMP2014 map or this, it's not that joined the forum as a expert. Howsoever i'm really glad that Kildeth signed me as a newbie since it offered me the oportunity to work with Ribbiks which was a fantastic thing for me.

[SoundofDoomDoors]

I played ahead a bit to MAP21, but I'll post my comments on time anyway.

MAP17 was my favorite map in the wad so far, until I lost hundreds of health to the mastermind at the end. It's by far the best looking map in the WAD so far, and it plays pretty well too. I died in a completely optional revenant/vile ambush and pistol started it. At the end of the map, I had 6 health, and promptly died to hitscanners on MAP18. I recommend replacing the mastermind with either a cyberdemon or a pack of arachnotrons. That way the player doesn't get whittled down doing what I assume is what they're supposed to do in provoking massive infighting at the end. At least the projectiles could be dodged. The mastermind just gets in the way of what was otherwise one of my favorite parts of the map. Dragging the cyberdemon into fighting the entire yellow key room was great. There actually IS enough ammo for that part and the monsters that spawn in the main area after you trigger the yellow key stuff, the cyberdemon just happens to be standing on it.

Dobu said what I was thinking after playing this and MAP32's ending: Tourniquet is a mapper to watch out for. He's good.

[Urthar]

ZDOOM - HMP - Pistol Starts

MAP16 - Red Morning Light

Ammo was a bit scarce early on, but there were reasonably generous supplies of health, armour and a berserk pack to offset that. Layout, lighting and texturing were all pretty decent, but nothing about the map really excited me. It felt like a really competent speed map.


MAP 17 – Zebetite

This is a high quality map. The visuals are excellent, the gameplay is engaging, the encounters have a sense of drama, and the pacing is very well judged. Maps don't get much better than this frankly, apart from the music, which doesn't seem to quite loop properly.

I might be tempted to add an additional armour halfway through the map on lower difficulty settings, as I burnt through the intial armour quite quickly and was reliant on save games to complete the latter half.


MAP18 - Vile Complex

Quite a plain boxy map, but visually clean and not unpleasing. The layout worked pretty well, with places of interest to explore, nice lines of sight through the map, and a very readable progression. While the encounters all seemed to have a tactical angle which gave them interest. I might be tempted to experiment with making the Hell Knight maze a little narrower, but otherwise I'd say the map worked quite nicely.

[Jaws In Space]

This was a pretty simple map from U.O.D. both in visuals & gameplay. It really looks pretty bland coming right after Tourniquets super detailed map, but even so it still seems a bit more under detailed compared to most other maps that have appeared in this wad outside of map 4. Gameplay was also a stark contrast to Tourniquets map, where as I was constantly dying there, I made it through this map rather recklessly. The only part were I came close to dying was in the shotgunner maze & that was more due to the fact that they were shotgunners rather than from that area being a well designed fight. The final maze section right before the exit was pretty bland, I strongly suggest replacing the Hell Knights with something else as it was really boring to play through as is.

[scifista42]

MAP17 - "Zebetite" by tourniquet

High detail, almost distracting, but still competently and beautifully done, made me stand in awe. Good layout with good interconnection between areas, allowing varied possibilities how the monsters can threaten the player and vice versa. I've enjoyed the gameplay and liked the balance too. Switches were inconsistently lit up (or not) in their initial non-pressed state, but in the end, I was able to distinguish them by memory and didn't mind it. Tourniquet is an excellently skilled newcomer.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP18 Vile Complex 3/5

The design here shows that this is definitely a map by a newbie. some interesting hooks include opening several doors with demons behind them and that maze just before the exit. I have a weird penchant for these kinds of maps lately so it gets the score that some might not expect from me.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP18: Vile Complex

The feeling that the map order has been decided upon to best showcase the contrasts between each map continues. :)

There are some decidely old-school sensibilities on display here, with a map full of boxy rooms and square corridors that wouldn't look out of place being swept by gelatinous cubes in someone's Dungeons & Dragons homebrew. The level opens up progressively as the player advances, with new lines of sight and paths of access becoming available; I really liked the way these were incorporated into the soulsphere secret/puzzle, where the player has to take several actions in different parts of the map before a solution becomes apparent and possible.

In terms of detail and difficulty this wouldn't have seemed out of place in a similar map slot in Doom 2 itself; in fact the lead-up to the exit, with the player moving from one dead-end to another in an area of twisting corridors that gradually open up, is reminiscent of the exit area in Doom 2's own MAP17, though arranged quite differently. The frantic Hell Knight/arch-vile battle that erupts as you work toward that section's conclusion is pleasantly intense.

Compared to tourniquet's MAP17 offering that immediately precedes it, U.O.D.'s Vile Complex is less polished but, I feel, better-paced and more inventive.

[mouldy]

MAP31 - "Fever Blues" by Noisyvelvet

This is a fun map, can be played at quite a speedy pace. In fact its a lot more enjoyable played like that, ignoring all those damn revenants which can be a chore with no armour or rocket launcher, grabbing the blue key and just running to the outdoor section. I ran straight past the mastermind too, he was standing under a crusher like an idiot for some reason. Finding the computer map unveils the secret area, and with a bit of luck and a keen eye you can take the secret exit from there, and not even have to bother going back to deal with all those angry skeletons. I like a map that gives you these options. I already moaned about the sloppy texture alignment in the other thread, and I don't think thats going to get fixed. Its a shame because I really like the colour scheme, you don't normally see much red in tech bases.

I'm gonna skip map32 for now, might come back to it later on with a beefier computer.

MAP16 - "Red Morning Light" by SFoZ911

Fun map, I like how it reuses the space. Its not so tough as long as you can handle a couple of revs with a shotgun, I think that beginning bit was the biggest challenge for me. By the time you get the bigger weapons there is enough space and cover around to make things less strenuous. The plasma secret is amusing in that there is barely enough plasma ammo to deal with the monsters it unleashes, I guess its a bonus for continuous players mainly.

MAP17 - "Zebetite" by tourniquet

This is a real treat for the eyes. I'm not sure how many maps tourn has made before this but he definitely has an innate eye for visual design, and the gameplay compliments it well with all the sneaky lock in traps and surprise repopulation. The patience required for this level of detail is something to be admired. I would say that the floor bumps and wall extrusions can make navigation a touch slippery or awkward at times. Also there is a particular wall trim that allows a sprightly player to skip the blue key, but by that time you will have played so much of the map its hardly worth it. I think the highlight for me is the cyber battle, great fun getting him to kill everything else in the room.

MAP18 - "Vile Complex” by U.O.D.

Quite an aesthetic contrast to the previous map, this is unashamedly old school. Even has a little optional mazey bit. Its a fun and functional map all the same. The chaingunner trap is leathal unless you happen to be facing it holding a rocket launcher, which I was, cos I knew it was there. The best bit for me was the fight with the spiders, cacos and rev snipers, which turns into an infighting massacre if you are bold enough to run up the stairs and do some dodging. Also I do like the secret door hint of having some steps leading up to a blank wall.

[scifista42]

MAP18 - "Vile Complex” by U.O.D.

Very oldschool styled, specially in contrast with previous NOVA II maps (almost all of them). But it was the kind of oldschool that's not downright bad, at all. Visuals and detailing were simplistic, progression and combat mechanics featured only basic ideas. However, the layout + particular monster encounters were just enough elaborate to make me feel comfortable while exploring it and fighting enemies there, all the time. The theme was a Doom2-like texture mix with a level of both variation and unification, and actually looked good to me (like an above-average IWAD-style aesthetic).

Several times, a typical oldschool trait appeared: Sections where you keep fighting monsters of the same type, often relatively tough ones (pinkies, chaingunners, hell knights) - but here, instead of blatant placement, it served as a strategical placement, kind of: Just try running away from a wall of chaingunners, try outrunning several swarms of pinkies, try dodging living HKs back and forth. It forces the player to use a reasonable strategy, or take a great risk - and if killing the monsters was ever tedious, then only slightly so.

I've found 4/6 secrets, they were usually as simple to discover as spotting a different texture on a wall, but I've enjoyed finding them, and it was interesting how some of them could be accessed from more than one way. I've cheated to find the remaining 2 ones, though.

Overally, good map.

[obake]

Map 17 : Zebetite by tourniquet
Played on HNTR, HMP, and UV. Completed UV with 97% kills, 100% items, and 66% secrets. Average time: 25 minutes Death count: 32

This map has amazing visuals and atmosphere. Both HNTR and HMP are fairly tough, but nothing too taxing. Though I didn't find any of the secrets on either of these modes.

UV is a gigant step up in difficulty, with me dying 25 times on that mode alone. There are some truly evil traps within Zebetite, though oddly enough, I never died at the one before the exit. XD

The most difficult parts were the Cyber room on UV (I didn't have too much trouble there on other modes), and the teleporting enemies in the beginning areas. I was forced on UV to find at least two of the secrets. I found the soulsphere with little trouble, but the blue armor took awhile. I still haven't located the other one. Overall, a very intense map. Perhaps not the most fair at times (I got pretty frustrated with some of the encounters), but still great looking and mostly fun to play.

[dobu gabu maru]

Ribbiks said:

as an addendum to dobu's 2nd post

Yup, that was definitely allowed in the original OP, though I had my doubts regarding that too. As witnessed in this thread, sometimes it's hard to tell when one mapper's influence ends and the other's begins, which can seem a bit contradictory for NOVA's directive of serving as an author's "debut". Tourny at least has other maps in the set though so I think the collab idea was fine—plus MAP29 turned out really well. Would be nice to get some author notes on the 29th!

MAP18: U.O.D.’s style is quite remarkable in that it’s classic: simple lighting, pedestrian detailing, and a heavy reliance on hitscanners. There’s a quirky progression but it’s never obfuscated, and the action is plenty spicy due to the large number of hitscanners strewn about. My favorite part is the ending battle, not just for the cool way it uses HKs to pressure the player but that the lead up to it is so boring and rote that it completely catches you by surprise. Throw this map into any collection in the late 90s and perhaps it wouldn’t have made a splash, but it is absolutely a breath of fresh air here.

[Pirx]

Veinen said:

I blame the long map! :D

My max is about 50 minutes and judging by the skipsec count, I'd wager DotW's FDA is somewhere around 100 minutes long (gonna have to watch that tomorrow).

that caco at the end of your demo... i would have exploded at that point :p

[tourniquet]

Heh, yeah that stupid bastard stole at least 2 minutes. Nonetheless a great run Veinen. Also lols for the ghost monsters in Noisy's part :D

[an_mutt]

Howdy folks, as some of you already know I've been streaming NOVA II irregularly over the past couple weeks. I'm hoping to finish things up tonight, so please join me:

http://www.twitch.tv/an_mutt

I was supposed to post write-ups of the maps I've already played. Ehhhhhhhhhh

[SleepyVelvet]

cool demos, i didn't know about the 20% damaging door sector or any blockmap issues... i guess it will be up to the wad compiler to fix things; the version with this bug is built off of my versions, and dobu/tourn did some difficulty setting revisioning since then, so hopefully the split won't make things complicated.

here's some author's comments:

Map 31
This is a noisyvelvet techbase. I played a lot of Doom 2 and KDitD when i was young, so the elements I liked the most about them are probably what try to recreate in my own mapping. Here specifically, I tried to make a map was smooth and easy and accessible to everyone, so i was going for an "iwad techbase" kinda map. I think i nailed it. The scarce criticisms that come up for this map could probably be used against any Doom2 McGee map too; such maps are a medium-sized core layout with interesting connectivity, but within pockets of interconnected core layout are pretty distinct architectural gimmicks and concepts.

I actually thought i was designing this map to be pretty easy, with the blue "bone zone" being the only punchy hard part that might irritate people (merry christmas, suitepee). I was also gonna use the current uv difficulty for hmp and promote a lot of the hitscanners to chaingunners, but dobu suggested that the difficulty uv difficulty setting was probably fine where it was so i didn't change anything.

Map 32 maplet
If you think the visuals looked good here, it's probably because most of the textures i was using weren't iwad textures, where if i was using iwad textures, i would just do gaudy things that i really like but some people don't. I kinda let the gothic textures do the work for me here.

If Resurgence didn't come out, i wouldn't have thought this style of gameplay was acceptable (run-n-gun slaughter and switches that raise platforms that the player may or may not notice). I used to not like this style of map but at some point i started liking it over this last year-and-a-half. Everytime i played the map i had to put more stuff in because it got too easy (playing the same map makes it easier). I eventually replaced the mastermind with a cyberdemon on UV after i figured out how to consistently not die on the lift from it.

[SoundofDoomDoors]

MAP18 is a stark contrast to the previous map. To improve it, I'd recommend using more colors that aren't yellow and green, plus ripping out/replacing the shotgunner and hell knight mazes. The Vile and pack of HKs in the middle wasn't much of a finale for me. Maybe the vile was just unlucky and couldn't raise the HKs fast enough to protect himself when I pelted him with rockets.

[gaspe]

MAP19 - Cry of the Archvile

Kills: 99% | Items: 100% | Secrets: 100%

Mixed feelings on this map. I liked how some exploration was rewarding: the first SSG, the Plasma Gun in the boring crate session which, many thanks, it was short.
The start was nice, I tried for a while to make the Archvile to resurrect the sergeant so I could get some shells. The road to the Yellow key was kinda disappointing. The Blue key fight was something more interesting. The Archviles made the things more fun in the room with the Pain Elemental and near the Rocket Launcher, but the last wave was really underwhelming.
I can't say detail was bad, but it didn't told me nothing.
Imo the author will benefit more from trying to use some custom textures outside of the Iwads ones.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 16 -- Red Morning Light - 102% Kills / 100% Secrets - FDA (uses beta D3)
Dobu's explanations about the makeup of NOVA II's author roster aside, much has been said about whether or not Tourniquet and Cannonball and the like really belong in a 'newbie' mapset (and rightfully so, in deference to their plainly evident mapping prowess). In truth, I think the very same could be said for this SFoZ911 fellow, I have yet to see a map by him that is not of good (or better) quality, and 'Red Morning Light' is far from his first.

The setting here is a fairly anonymous patch of muddy, creeper-ridden ruins, redolent of a techbase in form, but of something else in feel. It has that abstract yet rational/ordered 'classical' (in the strictly architectural sense of that term) feel to its shapes, structure, and layout, reminding me more than anything of the mid/later maps in Dr. Sleep's "Inferno" series. Having just said that, it now occurs to me that texture usage reminds me of Anderson's, as well (maybe with a touch of Ola Bjorling for good measure), quite varied without ever beginning to look busy or frenetic, with given textures given assigned roles that sometimes juxtaposes them in interesting ways where the structure is at is most elaborate. Very versatile, works well in both large and small spaces. This characterization breaks down somewhat in that there's not really the predominance of directional lighting (especially not emanating from torches and such) as tends to be traditionally associated, but no matter, the lighting style used is just fine--a neutral-dim default broken by pools of light from skylights and the all-too-rare dynamic flickering effects in side-chambers. This is why I feel a neutral-dim default to a map's lighting scheme usually works so much better than a neutral-bright one: you get much more depth of scene and visual vibrancy out of highlighting particular parts of a generally dark or shady map with bright/glowing/piercing light than you do by having some blotches/smudges of shadow in a generally bright/clear map.

Gameplay here is quite satisfying, as well. It's not a hard map, but it keeps you on your toes throughout with its steady, confident rhythm of feints, parries, and thrusts--everywhere you go, everything you do, some new little pocket of opposition is introduced into the map, usually from any and every point of contact except for the one that's right in front you, so you're always whirling and dashing and firing, soundly beating back the demons, but with a sense that they are not to be so easily dissuaded. I particularly liked the arch-vile introduced into the map upon accessing the plasma gun secret, an unexpected little jab that changed my priorities and reinvigorated the map's pace just as it seemed to be winding down after the initial furor (bonus points for littering an important space with another batch of bodies in the process, you guys know how I like that stuff). In essence, SFoZ911 is springing the same general type of encounter on you throughout the map, but because he almost never springs it the same way twice, keeping things lively throughout. A very nice thing balance complements the punchy action--you've got more than you need (esp. with secrets), but it's spaced out pretty evenly, and so landmarks like getting the SSG feel more pronounced, no small feat flavoring progression in that way in such a small/short map.

In sum, 'Red Morning Light' looks good, plays well, and acquits itself as an eminently enjoyable little slice of DooM without needing to rely on any particularly pronounced gimmick or concept to establish and assert its character. It is the best small map in NOVA II up to this point, hands down, and is just the sort of thing I would like to see crop up more often when people set out to make "Classic" or "Back to Basics" mapsets.

Map 17 -- Zebetite - 100% Kills (sorta) / 66% Secrets - FDA (uses beta D3)
Alright, solo effort from Tourniquet, with a somewhat unusual feel to it, both aesthetically and in terms of gameplay.

Aesthetically, the very distinct look of the map elides from its motley assortment of assets, each given tons of individual iterations as a product of the ornately layered, trim-heavy architectural style. Broadly speaking, Tourniquet's general visual style tends to be compared to Insane_Gazebo's (of Sunder fame)--Hell, I think I've made the comparison before, myself--the 'macrotectural' tropes are similar, the judicious deployment of layers of borders and trim (on vertical planes just as much as on horizontal ones) is very similar, the heavily stylized shaping of cut-through sectors and pylons and things of that nature, which always gives me the impression the architecture itself is in the middle of a severe anxiety-attack or something, is also quite similar, and so on and so forth. Saying Tourniquet's visual style is "like Sunder" and simply leaving it at that is a bit of a disservice, though, as there are a few key differences that lend the final product a very different feel. The most telling of these, I think, is texture usage: each of Sunder's individual maps generally uses a rather limited number of textures/flats (often 1-3 primary wall textures, 1-2 primary flats, and 1 dedicated trim/border/brace texture), painting them broadstroke over monolithic structures and wide open expanses, with most of the visual flavor and nuance eliding almost entirely from pure architecture and scale, with the occasional assist from lighting as well as the direct color schemes that using so few assets over such large areas tends to engender. Despite the structural/stylistic similarities, Tourniquet tends to use a much more eclectic assortment of textures--you can often see more different materials and colors in just one of his rooms than you might see over the course of an entire map in Sunder, making individual features or structures more distinct and allowing for much more detailed and finely-nuanced visual themes, at the cost/risk of sometimes crossing the boundary from the realm of 'visually complex' into that of 'visually cluttered/noisy.'

Zebetite fits this pattern to a tee, being some kind of dour old nuclear dump gutted and then injected with superhitech sundries to the point where circuitry and relays and other assorted sciencey thingamabobs are practically oozing out of all its seams, or perhaps it's been a MegaUltraSuperFuckingDuperComputer nexus all along, and has simply been (badly) disguised as a dingy old nuclear plant. Whatever the case, its welter of pre-industrial and super-science assets is tightly and fervently entangled into a dizzyingly varied tu-tone aesthetic--tight tangles of optic cable bursting out of cracks in old mortar, lacquered cement bracing spikes and swathes of copper circuitry, and almost everywhere you turn lurid red neon glowing and pulsing through rusty metal grates, all under an azure night sky surrounded by unwholesome green poison rivers. Depending on your aesthetic tastes I reckon that all either sounds fascinatingly evocative or plainly overwrought; for my part, I think it mostly works, largely a function of a very down-to-earth basal color scheme (brown/black) acting as a canvas to hold all of the welter of details together. I would say it does cross the line of good taste in a couple of places--most notably in the case of the total trim/color overload in the small L-shaped junction that connects several of the larger areas together--but for the most part it maintains enough coherency for the thematic variations to be interesting rather than jarring, my favorite area being the large outdoor sifting tank with its snaking walkway and heavily ornate buttresses.

Gameplay also has a lot of character, although I'm not sure I entirely enjoyed everything about it. While I doubt it's very pronounced if one plays with carryovers, from a pistol-start the map has a weirdly slowballed yet highly choreographed pace to it, offering some fairly straightforward incidental combat that feels somewhat like a placeholder before getting into a series of setpieces that, while lethal if you do something stupid, tend to be rather tame if you use the correct strategy, said strategy more often than not being decidedly coy/passive in nature, e.g. having the cyberdemon do your work for you in his setpiece, just making a corner for yourself in the mastermind gunnery setpiece, etc. Outside of setpieces the monsters are deployed to be nuisances by virtue of their basic traits if fought directly, but it's often easier/smarter to temporarily retreat and get a better angle on things, making for a cleaner fight. For example, I recall feeling like fighting the gasbags on the snaking walkway after using the blue card was going to involve a lot of collateral damage with the revenant towers nearby also in play, so I left the area and went to the overlooking terrace (accessible from a different part of the map) and fought the gasbags from there, easier/more efficient for sure, if less abjectly heroic in style. And I did that sort of thing a lot, seems like, it's as though fights are just troublesome enough in terms of apparent attrition output to make you look for advantages and shortcuts, while seldom curtailing you from finding/using said advantages, which can make some bits seem just a little underwhelming. Thing balance may also play into this somewhat, for example I remember upon seeing the stuff around the switch which kicks off the cybie setpiece I ended up going to another part of the level looking for a plasma gun or BFG because the cell packs said to me I would need one, but...I didn't find one--or find much of anything, for that matter, seeing as that other area is 'between' setpieces and thus uneventful--and in fact I didn't need one. At all.

It's not categorically wrong, really, and some folks will probably greatly appreciate the restraint, but I feel like maybe a few too many punches were pulled, or perhaps the player wasn't 'kept honest' quite enough. Many of the ideas are interesting (or classic, or both) on a core level, so it's not without its charm--my favorite was actually the simple vile-maze, psychologically intimidating if nothing else--but it did leave me with a bit of an unscratched itch, or perhaps left me feeling like a little bit of a cheater, even though I didn't actually cheat. A few suggestions I would make for specific encounters (merely a reflection of my own tastes, of course):
* I think the arch-vile that overlooks the rocket launcher would be exponentially more dangerous/effective if he were simply up there by his lonesome--as it is, the revenants really distract him, to the point where he's practically a non-factor.
* In the vile-maze, when the second vile appears I feel like he needs a bit of company, maybe a Baron or a couple of knights who appear close by one side of the switch to keep the player from simply doing the corner two-step with the bit of wall there and blasting him away as he comes down the hall.
* In the spiderdemon gunnery fight, lots of the gasbags who are supposed to complicate the second phase tend to get stuck outside and thus show up tardy (if at all)--they might need to be deployed closer to the big window, and on a cleaner approach angle (e.g. perhaps from the southeast) to make them enter/interfere more reliably.

[Magnusblitz]

Ugh, time to play catch up, and with a behemoth map no less...

MAP15: Crumbling Necropolis
82% kills, 5/10 secrets

Huge exploratory map here, and despite the name, it's definitely more of some sort of human techbase (albeit with a lot of stone masonry) than anything I'd expect to be called a "necropolis." That said, it looks pretty good for the most part, with a generally cohesive color scheme and excellent lighting. I really like the 'nighttime' setting with the moon providing the lighting, it really pops in some places, especially those where long shadows are created by the moonlight. There are a few jarring texture combinations, though, and the tech bits feel a bit out of place with all the stone and brick, but its a minor complaint.

I do admit that this level wore me out a bit, gameplay-wise. There's not many enemies on ground-level, rather, it's mostly populated with snipers and "turret" monsters. This creates both the unwelcome effect of needing to whittle down enemies from afar (especially since it takes so long to get the rocket launcher) and keep moving through the map, as anytime I stopped to ponder I would get hit by a revenant fireball launched silently from halfway across the map. The heavily interconnected layout really requires some pondering, too; I had cleared out half the map's enemies and seen pretty much the whole thing before spotting any of the keys (turned out I didn't look high enough for the red key and missed the yellow key since I didn't want to mess with the AV guarding it). The blue key is actually hidden away in a section of the map the player can't see, which I feel is somewhat of a botched design point - better to let the player see it from afar right away, and then try to figure out how to get it, I feel. Indeed, much of the map's progression had a sort "what the hell do I do now" vibe, especially the big switch behind the red doors. Throw in plenty of blind teleporters, of which both "secret" and "normal" ones are the same, and upon finding a new area, half the time I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be a secret or part of the regular level path. I suppose this is part of exploration, but given that so much of the exploration is fraught with plinking at revenants, chaingunners and mancubuses from afar with the chaingun, it got a bit annoying.

Still, it's a heck of a map, and I love the Arch-Vile release following the blue key. Could just stand to lose a few revenants and chaingunners, I think.