The DWmegawad Club plays: NOVA II

[mouldy]

MAP24 - “The Descent” by U.O.D.

Back to the old school. Very solid map, quite a challenge from pistol start, there is a lot of meat to contend with right from the off, and foraging for guns n ammo brings even more. There were a few places where i found myself very low on supplies, but managed to scape through without ever running out completely. Theres a very crafty use of space, or rather the lack of it, particularly in the platforming cavern. Thats the last place you want to see a pain elemental, or an archvile. Got 5 out of 6 secrets, bloody needed them too. Good stuff. Oh, apart from the crusher, which is bullshit of the highest order.

[gaspe]

MAP25 - Parasite Hive

Kills: 99% | Items: 95% | Secrets: 75%

Pretty big map, lots of monster to kill all along the way. The central structure has a good use of curves and circle-like shapes to emphasize the organic nature of the place. All around it we have an outdoor with many slime swamps. As soon as I get outside I made all the tour of the outdoor. It was pretty though due to low ammo. The BFG wassn't very helpful for the sparse monsters and the snipers, I would have only wasted its ammo, and I wanted to save rockets too as I didn't knew what was ahead. I really wished to find a Plasmagun somewhere there.
After I cleaned all the outdoor I went back inside the hive, at first it seemed to be much more complicated of how actually it was. The encounter at the central eye was cool, though idk if it would be better to put an indication of somekind to jump down there.

[Pinchy]

';,,;'

There's a plasma gun in a cave just before the jump to the center eye, you can get there from outside as well, entering the lower part. The inner entrance is one way, but you can get out from the room with a switch.

[mouldy]

MAP25 - "Parasite Hive" by Pinchy

I like this map, its very unpredictable. I've played it a few times now and every time I end up going a different route. The design is a bit rough and ready in places, but with something this size it hardly matters. It can also be played quite fast and loose, although the pistol start has some unconventional weapon progression that requires a bit of attention to your ammo, at least until you get the full collection of guns. After that you can run and gun to your heart's content. The most dangerous part is probably the pit of revenant crossfire, though I survived it this time. Survived the whole thing in fact without any deaths (some close calls though). Fast paced and fun.

(This post went missing in the server transition today, as did a few others it seems.)

[dobu gabu maru]

MAP25: We go from a map that certainly feels crazy to a map drenched in liquified lunacy. It’s a messy, slightly unbalanced map, but given the amount of ways you can explore it, it’s kind of a “choose your own adventure”. You can explore it at your own pace, choosing which enemies pose more of a threat than others, though you always have to be on the move until you have a good chunk of ammunition and health. It’s not the most thrilling map to play—especially once you know it’s general layout and enemy placement—but it’s a solid exploratory map.

One thing—I think when the player hits the YK exit switch they should be allowed to go under the “exit” sign so they don’t get confused and try to rocket their corpse under it a la an_mutt.

[Urthar]

MAP25 - Parasite Hive

Bit of a surreal mess, but basically fun. (Server ate my post.)

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP25 Parasite Hive 0/5

so I'm pulling the same thing that Jaws In Space pulls with his ratings by only having one map as a 0/5. Well, it's this one. first of all, the first weapon gotten is a BFG. And that gives this map a false sense of being a slaughtermap. by dropping down, using the BFG here would actually be more of a mistake, especially with the SSG and shotgun ammo given for the imps. thankfully, most of the main bugs, like texture errors, were fixed in the map, but much of the gameplay and design had me irked. first of all, there's the large ring on the outside, easily accessible, then there's the curvy halls inside. it seems that in order to actually get through the map, you have to go through the interior portions to get the yellow key, and then the exterior circle holds the exit switch. unfortunately, there's not much in the way of hints, so I wandered around a lot without a whole lot of excitement (speaking of which, a lot of enemies were in front of me, for practically the whole map). it probably would be wise to clear the outer circle first since there's quite a few supplies there for killing the monsters, but then again, it would have been even more confounding to get a few extra monsters into the outer circle after picking the key up (the only notable ones being a few cacodemon cages in the interiors, but those are easily handled).

Of particular notice in the interior section of the map is the center, an incredibly annoying ambush of shotgun guys teleporting around the player along with revenants on the walls. the open area makes it nigh impossible to dodge. now that difficulty settings were implemented, it seems that the shotgun guy W1 teleports can actually be used by more than just the shotgun guys, which is another thing that should be fixed. I was surprised when I first used it, and even more surprised when a revenant followed me in doing so. it seems that the actual exit has changed too, there's now a spiderdemon and some cacos attacking me at the exit. nothing to handle but the spider seems to just pop up in my face which is something that not a lot of people like seeing. so overall, there's definitely very little that I like about this map, even after the second time playing. I get that it has a sense of exploration, with an outer circle and an interior that can be visited anytime, but I found it very dull and long.

[tourniquet]

dobu gabu maru said:

MAP25
One thing—I think when the player hits the YK exit switch they should be allowed to go under the “exit” sign so they don’t get confused and try to rocket their corpse under it a la an_mutt.

Yeah the stupid exit sign thingy was my mistake, blame me not pinchy. I'll fix that

[Suitepee]

http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee/c/6992415 = part 1 of my playthrough, covering maps 01-14. (UV, pistol starts)

So far so good for the NOVA sequel. The maps have been varied and fun to play, even joe-ilya's entry this time around.

Cyberdemon531 and mrthejoshmon's maps were the highlight of E1 for me. I liked the action and weird melding of visual textures in Cyberdemon531's map, while mrthejoshmon's map had some cool exploration to it and an interesting visual take on a warped/corrupted techbase. (also liked that texture "bug" effect in said techbase)
Jmickle6666's map was also kind of interesting, especially the BFG secret. Ho ho into the flames of hell indeed!

Getsu Fune's map was alright, although I ponder if it could have been shortened for the large scale of the map deserved better than standard texturing and low usage of props. Still, nothing wrong with the map gameplay-wise, and this is about the only nitpick I've been able to muster so far for NOVA 2.

I will resume my playthrough after SGDQ concludes, and I'm looking forward to Megiddo 2.....

[gaspe]

MAP26 - Surreptitious Ichor

Kills: 99% | Items: 98% | Secrets: 80%

This was one was really challenging. The start was extremely tough, and I died many times before finally proceed to next areas of the map.
In front of you there's a metal structure full of windows which give the flying monsters in there a good freedom to come to you, and each route other route is full of enemies. There isn't so much space to move and it's easy to get overwhelmed by the sides you don't pay much attention. At first I could arrived to the Rocket Launcher and for like 4 tries I tried to get there which it wasn't at all the right strategy, so I tried to clean all the first area which it revealed to be successful. In the process luckily I found the chaingun and I could take the SSG too. The Pain Elemental were very dangerous as the place got filled of lost souls quickly.
To the Red and Yellow Key we have a little more break, thanks to having also the Rocket Launcher and the Plasmagun. The cave session was really nice, and quite peaceful, it was really goo to the pace.
A tough slaughter sessions awaits us after the yellow key door, the secret blue armor helped me a lot in this session. The slaughter keeps going until the end with moments of break to get to the next area.
The start is really tricky due to having only the SG and the other weapons are heavily guarded. I'm curios about who made what part, but my guess is that Dobu Gabu Maru made the left and Cannonball the right.
Excellent map, one of my favourites of the wad.

[SoundofDoomDoors]

MAP25: Near the yellow key-opened switch on a mountaintop is an archvile. When I ran into him, he was stuck in one place after spawning. My progression through this map was a little unusual. I cleared everything out, then after almost everything was dead, looked at my automap. Checking an unexplored area to the east left me with the yellow key, which I already knew where it was used. Revealing the exit sign after hitting the switch made it clear where I needed to go.
93% kills 50% secrets

A few days later: Overall, I thought this map was okay. The pace felt like it slowed to a crawl after I cleared out everything, but didn't have any keys. At least it was obvious what I needed to do. That's a far cry from MAP15, where I was lost for most of my play time.

[baja blast rd.]

Any ideas on wads for next month?

I really want to replay the original Doom II, largely because I want to see DotW write about Doom II. That's my heuristic. So, it follows that I wouldn't vote for Doom II if DotW has a strong preference for something else.

I've been on a speedmap(ping) kick lately, so in lieu of that I might vote for something like Speed of Doom or KSS (probably the latter, since it's so unpolished yet loads of fun). It looks like we haven't done a set of speedmaps yet (I'm not counting Mayhem).

Maybe we could also play 31 random Memfis maps.

[SoundofDoomDoors]

I'd suggest Sunlust, but we're beta testing a wad this month already. If other people want to play it though, I could get behind that.

I'm against Doom 2. The whole idea of playing through all the bad levels to get to the handful of good ones Romero got done between DM sessions isn't appetizing to me. If we DO play Doom 2, I might play the original Doom alongside it, pistol starting every map since I know them so well.

One thing I'd like to see instead of Doom 2 is we go through the PSX TC. I've played a bit of it and it ranges from "hey that sound was in Doom 64!" to "I can't see shit!" It's a lot of levels, though, 59 if I recall. We'd be playing several a day, but many would be on the easy side , so keeping a decent pace wouldn't be a problem.

For something harder, MUCH HARDER, what about Speed of Doom? I didn't see it listed as something that's been played in past threads, and I see plenty of wads with slaughter parts on the very same list. My interest was piqued in it earlier today because I remembered playing some of it in Samsara MP one time, and EVERYONE died at the start except one guy. He died just outside the exit after nearly an hour of fighting. I wanted to figure out which map it was, so I hit youtube to look for a video. I ended up watching playthroughs of 28(the map I remembered from MP), 30 and both secret maps. Tough as nails, but just throwing it out there.

EDIT: I was just flipping through the top 100 wads for ideas and I saw Demonfear. Didn't Adam come back to the community earlier this year? It stands out too because of how much I love the Scythe wads. Plus I would probably be able to finish it on UV. SoD would be...painful.

[Capellan]

I will once again propose the idea of doing one of the top "most underrated" picks from http://www.doomworld.com/vb/doom-general/73365-most-overrated-and-most-underrated-megawads-of-all-time/

[AD_79]

Strain still exists!

[gaspe]

Strain!!!! Also TVR, or... Eternal.

[ArmouredBlood]

I'd say "pick me!" but map01 of newgothic would probably kill half the club. Shai'tan's luck wasn't too bad though ... very roughly made on the other hand.

[obake]

Map 24 : The Descent by U.O.D.
Played on HMP, with 100% kills, and 16% secrets, in a time of 22 minutes. Deaths: about 12

Oh noes! The server ate me post-a (pasta)

But no fear, I remember my review fairly well. This was a good level with nice flow and some interesting uses of the Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind. The Mastermind battle in particular was quite difficult at first, and took quite a few attempts. Overall this map was very nicely done, and more intriguing than U.O.D.'s other map of the set, Vile Complex.

Not that that map was bad, but it was certainly lacking. This one makes up for it.

[Obsidian]

Some suggestions for next month:

Icarus: Alien Vanguard
Dimensions of Time
Reverie(or was it DoomCore?)
32in24 14 :P

[NuMetalManiak]

While I would probably keep pimping the same thing I've been doing for the past three or so months, I will say that I've had a soft spot for Hell Revealed 2 more than anything. I've been playing it more than any other megawad now.

Oh, and Alien Vendetta is still a thing. It's still a thing.

[SoundofDoomDoors]

gaspe said:

Strain!!!! Also TVR, or... Eternal.

I wish I knew how to multiquote here, if it's even possible.

First, I'm in the middle of Eternal Doom, have been for about 2 months. You don't want to play it. The maps go on forever and the progression ranges from a little obtuse to going to youtube just to open a door or lower an obvious wall. I may never finish it.

Second, AV is one wad I considered when I made my last post. I just always figured I'd play Hell Revealed first. We haven't done either of those, so I'm okay with one or the other.

Third, I can't believe 24 and 18 are by the same person. 18 must be older, then. 24 was much better. The whole thing with the mancubi blocking the MM's hitscan fire for a time was brilliant.

Last, I was once on a Demonsteele server and I complained that HR was too easy with the mod on. The admin responded by putting us on newgothic. I had a blast with demonsteele and some other players, but I'd never play it vanilla. It would be too difficult. I actually think based on my memory that Speed of Doom would be EASIER.

[SuperCupcakeTactics]

Why not Hellcore? I've never really played it before and I think it'd be interesting to do one not super well known.

[ArmouredBlood]

SoundofDoomDoors said:

I wish I knew how to multiquote here, if it's even possible.

...

Last, I was once on a Demonsteele server and I complained that HR was too easy with the mod on. The admin responded by putting us on newgothic. I had a blast with demonsteele and some other players, but I'd never play it vanilla. It would be too difficult. I actually think based on my memory that Speed of Doom would be EASIER.

If you hit the quote button on a post it spits out some code in brackets etc., just copy/paste that into a notepad for each reply, copy/paste them all into the last, and then separate your replies to quotes.

It's interesting you mention using demonsteele to get through harder slaughterwads, I think it'd be cool to have a month using demonsteele to go through one of the harder wads like my own newgothic, sunlust, sunder, or even slaughterfest 2012. Not sure how demonsteele would interact with the infinite bfg in sf2012 though.

Otherwise I vote for strain, been a long time since I played it.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 24 -- The Descent - 102% Kills / 50% Secrets - FDA (uses beta D3)
'The Descent' does indeed assert itself quite a bit more than U.O.D.'s 'Vile Complex' from earlier, I'm pleased to say. Whereas with map 18 I feel like the only real talking points were some needlessly hamstrung encounters (e.g. the line-blocked pinkie corridor) and the author's baldfacedly old-fashioned aesthetic preference, this one seems to have a lot more character in general, fielding more and (generally) better encounter ideas, and much more articulated/varied architecture.

In terms of structure and layout, I think one can still very easily stick this in the 'oldschool is best school' camp, but it's no longer as simple as just handwaving the style away as 'it's very 90s.' Rooms and the passages that connect them now have a lot more definition and variation in shape to them, which informs both the sense of setting and of course the clarity of gameplay ideas. Map 18 was sort of a generic 'earth base' setting comprised mostly of anonymous rectangular chambers with relatively few memorable gameplay features beyond the "mazes", whereas 'The Descent' has several areas that stand out simply by dint of how they're built--of course we have the central marble root-chamber which doesn't reveal its big secret until the very end (and a good reveal it is), but there's also the precarious brimstone-cavern to the south, the blood-bathing pool to the west, and the only slightly more anonymous crusher-trial room to the east, and so on. Each of these contains a distinct gameplay idea which elides naturally from the room's shape--for example, catwalking and light platforming in the brimstone cavern--which in turn means the player fights and traverses in a variety of different ways over the course of the level. Really elementary stuff, of course, and I apologize if I sound like I'm just spouting a bunch of circular reasoning here, but the fact different parts of the map play/work differently here is itself just such a big positive contrast with map 18, where everything was mostly boxes and cursory janitorial sweep, save for the pleasant little rocket launcher bit. Shape and room functions aside, there is still a certain looseness in arrangement that could be seen as a result of inexperience--i.e. technically speaking there's a fair bit of interconnectivity between roughly adjacent areas, but the way it's implemented often seems a mite janky and largely irrelevant to actual gameplay (e.g. some of the routes open too late to be relevant for any practical purpose), suggesting that different rooms were designed in a vacuum and then wound up in one map together largely as a matter of convenience rather than in deference to some overarching unifying concept--but in this case I'm content to interpret this as a 'classic' trait rather than as an 'amateurish' one. ;)

In terms of surface aesthetics, incidentally, the overall bent is still very practical/functional with little sense of detail for the sake of it (just a prop object here and there, really), but it's much cleaner and neater than what was seen in map 18, with much more attention paid to concourse issues like texture alignment and material transitions and the like, in concert with the more developed room shapes it makes for a much more 'complete' setting. It's no beauty pageant winner, but it's a perfectly serviceable classic Doom-Hell patois, using several tried-and-true texture combos to its advantage. The only bit that sticks out in my mind as something I didn't like was the use of drab brown dirt walls for the walkways and such in the big red brimstone cavern, seemed ugly. Probably just a personal tic of mine, though, I usually don't like that texture paired up with much more colorful structural/landscape textures as a generality.

Apart from the gameplay itself having a lot more structure to it, I also appreciate that the level's got some teeth, it can and will kill you if you take it lightly. I played really, really badly in the FDA (seriously, after my blooper at 14:30 I was amazed that Jim Varney one-liners didn't just start pouring uncontrollably out of my mouth), and so spent a goodly chunk of time under 20% health on more than one occasion.....I often shake my head at stuff I disapprove of in demo files, but in this case I mostly ended up doing that in acknowledgement of my own folly! Realizing I'm near death always seems to endear a given map a little bit more to me, especially when it's self-avowedly 'classic' in tone--when I'm genuinely punished for my mistakes, I feel like the various dangerous features of the map are doing their job of actually being dangerous, which to me is a subtle but important aspect of creating an authentic oldschool experience--I feel like many modern attempts at executing a self-consciously 'classic' style fail because their creators take pains to make them artificially very easy (a reflection of how old/IWAD stuff is generally not seen as particularly difficult to the majority of most modern/long-time players), overlooking the fact that old id maps (and arguably even moreso many of the old PWADs) were absolutely intended to cause scads and scads of player deaths back when they were contemporary--they seem easy because they adhere to the general standards of a different time, not because they're trying to be easy, if you see what I'm saying.

Anyway, I seem to be having trouble making any kind of coherent point this evening (it's too fucking hot here...), so I'll just say that I felt like 'The Descent' was a much more complete/mature offering from U.O.D., one that I found significantly more interesting than map 18 from earlier.

[Demon of the Well]

I haven't given a lot of thought to what I want to play next month. I'll dutifully participate in any IWAD playthrough that comes up, but they're not likely to be something I'd ever actively vote for (not because I don't like them, but just because I've played them so much), sorry rdwpa. I'd like to do Hellbound before the year is out (maybe this fall--it's dark and moody and makes a good autumn WAD!), and I'm also interested in Armadosia V2, something from a few years ago I've never played before. I also keep promising Dobu I'll give him a helper vote to get Hell Revealed on the docket, I'm honor-bound to vote for Eternal Doom in the unlikely event it ever looks like it might actually stand a real chance of winning, AND of course I also look forward to Sunlust, whenever it's well and truly "done" (not that I haven't secreted away an 'unopened' copy of the original beta somewhere...!), but I can be patient.

As far as WADs from that 'underrated/overrated' thread Capellan linked go, a lot of the most commonly mentioned names there aren't really to my personal taste (TVR! especially, the gameplay in it is just too generally soft and fuzzy and snuggly and teensy-tiny and cutesy-wutesy for my taste), but I would probably still participate for most of them, the variety would probably be good for me and my perspective, frankly. People mention Hellcore a lot in that thread too, and again, without trying to gainsay anybody's vote, I'll cordially caution you guys to be careful what you wish for as far as that one goes--the WAD's really an unfinished mess, something like 70% of it is placeholder material. I will absolutely get behind a playthrough of Hellcore 2.0, though, I rather like that WAD, very atmospheric, very unconventional in its way. It's not a full megaWAD, though, so it would have to be supplemented with something else....I'd suggest 50 Shades of Graytall, but I'm not sure how close to finalized it is (or how long it actually is at this point, come to mention it), and it also seems that lots of folks don't like to do the beta-testing deal two months in a row (although I don't mind either way, personally).

Hmm. Well, sorry if this isn't a very helpful post, Dobu, but I'll probably chime in again later with a vote between whatever the top 2-3 contenders appear to be (looking like it'll be STRAIN and something else at this point).

[dobu gabu maru]

STRAIN actually seems pretty neat so I'm likely to give it my vote. We'll get to Hell Revealed and Eternal Doom eventually Demon, some day...

Also I'll give my big post about MAP26 when I finish writing it tomorrow.

[cannonball]

MAP26 - "Surreptitious Ichor" by dobu gabu maru & cannonball
It appears that this thread now contains a history test for myself and Dobu in the sense of remembering what parts of the map we did.
This map was initially designed to be a middle of the mapset entry being modest in length and difficulty, oh how that went wrong.
Personally I think Dobu did most of the leg work for this one, I was handed essentially the start areas which was already detailed to the hilt, the rocky section excluded at the moment. I added some layers to this and then built in the design around getting the red key and the looping progression seen in the final version. if you notice the layout here has similar tropes to Map01 of this wad, probably because both came about in the same period of time.
I can't remember whether the final area of the yellow key section came first, I think they came at the same time to an extent, the yellow key area was pretty much entirely Dobu's creation, though I added the subterranean section which connects to the tunnel which accesses the yellow key, but the rest was Dobu.
The area post the yellow key door is where things jump from rather cramped and tough conditions to all out slaughter, the initial design of the wood/water section was my creation, albeit more blocky and less detailed in nature. The rooms connecting this central structure where designed by Dobu to extend out the fight in this area and to be honest my input from this point was rather limited, in fact all the post first release work was done by Dobu alone.
This map really is a tale of two halves, possibly too long in length for some peoples tastes, though it is a beautiful beast and there are some cracking fights found within.
I'm sure some elements of this will be corrected later in the day.

One last thing, the music for map23 will be from the first version of my map, not the newest version thanks to popular demand, well DOTW :P

[ArmouredBlood]

Going to stream as much of the rest of NOVA 2 as I can tonight, SGDQ starts tomorrow and I'll probably be watching that a ton.

http://www.twitch.tv/armouredblood

[Magnusblitz]

Falling behind, definitely gonna blame it on big maps and the server switch, not me being busy, no siree...

MAP23: Vindaloo Chronicles
100% kills, 3/5 secrets

Sudden upswing in difficulty here, as we proceed from fairly standard maps to the outskirts of slaughter territory. I for one found the difficulty to be front-loaded in this map; the opening sections are the most difficult as the player starts surrounded from all sides, needing to scrounge around for weaponry and ammo and needing to carve out his own safe spot, not unlike some of the later Valiant maps. Plenty of room to run around and let the monsters do your work for you, especially if you find the secrets, which provide both strong powerups and places to wait out some of the horde self-culling. Once the initial section of the level is cleared out, things calm down for the most part, though there's a couple of sections requiring some strategy to deal with teleporting arch-viles or figuring out how best to deal with threats from different directions. The yellow key area does stand out a bit, as the placement of the Pain Elementals is downright dickish, I found it best to just sprint through, unleash everything at once, then run around like crazy and let the monsters do the work for me. And thankfully I had two invulns saved for the last battles (both the close-quarters one below the three-key lift and the finale).

Overall, very solid map, especially since it sounds like cannonball threw it together fairly quickly - as a very slow mapper myself, I can't help but be impressed. The look is classic hell and isn't anything special, but nothing looks bad and the action is good and solid.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP24: The Descent
100% kills, 3/6 secrets

As others have said, a very IWAD-style map, which I think makes for a nice change of place after the last map (and the next map has 425 monsters, so, yeah). Despite the use of the term often feeling disparaging, I think there's still good things those maps can offer - usually a nice exploratory "dungeon crawler" feel (rather than, say, being able to see pretty much the whole map at the start and then just figuring out how to conquer it), as well as some nice interconnected layouts if someone goes the Tom Hall route.

This map has a nice hub at the start, and while it eventually turns into a "collect the keys in the right order" path, there is the ability to explore while the player gets his bearings and gears up. For the most part, it's not too tough, though there were a few parts I disliked. The cyberdemon room isn't too fun, seems the only way to really beat it is run in, spawn the chaingunners, then run off and take them out from afar; there's really no way to approach it more aggressively due to the lack of cover in the room. I'm not sure if the demon ambush can be beaten without the (secret) plasma gun, as the SSG just reloads too slowly. The REDROCK cavern is a slog, as the layout of The Chasm-ish ledges greatly limits player mobility and enemy mobility alike, meaning enemies become turrets to just get taken out from afar by a player popping in and out around a corner. That said, I did like the spiderdemon fight at the end, as the titular "descent" as both unexpected and a cool re-use of the starting space. Definitely an improvement over MAP18.