Hating doom is cool now?

[quakke]

Completely agree with Half-Life doing it right and very few other games. But generally the fps design thesedays is something completely opposite to Doom and Half-Life. They focus on the story more than gameplay and have alot of gimmicky stuff etc..

[Voros]

Just thought of something.
Classic Doom didn't use 3D models to load those maps but 2D blueprints that the engine would process, thus reducing hardware and software usage and strain.
But if say MAP29 was in full 3D with graphics like Doom 3, then our PCs would lag due to high RAM and procesor usage. Also, there are some areas that the player doesn't have to go through but they still add more usage to the PC. Maybe that's one reason why modern fps games have linear levels. I think id Software is thinking of taking the risk of a running high graphical map completely at once rather than loading the map bit by bit. Gonna need a powerful PC though.

[DooM_RO]

Voros said:

Just thought of something.
Classic Doom didn't use 3D models to load those maps but 2D blueprints that the engine would process, thus reducing hardware and software usage and strain.
But if say MAP29 was in full 3D with graphics like Doom 3, then our PCs would lag due to high RAM and procesor usage. Also, there are some areas that the player doesn't have to go through but they still add more usage to the PC. Maybe that's one reason why modern fps games have linear levels. I think id Software is thinking of taking the risk of a running high graphical map completely at once rather than loading the map bit by bit. Gonna need a powerful PC though.

Exactly what I think.

[AirRaid]

Voros said:

Just thought of something.
Classic Doom didn't use 3D models to load those maps but 2D blueprints that the engine would process, thus reducing hardware and software usage and strain.
But if say MAP29 was in full 3D with graphics like Doom 3, then our PCs would lag due to high RAM and procesor usage. Also, there are some areas that the player doesn't have to go through but they still add more usage to the PC. Maybe that's one reason why modern fps games have linear levels. I think id Software is thinking of taking the risk of a running high graphical map completely at once rather than loading the map bit by bit. Gonna need a powerful PC though.

What you've said makes no sense. You can still design a modern engine "high graphical" map with all the pretty bells and whistles which is non-linear and free flowing. The guys building Phobos have done exactly this, actually. Pretty much every game engine loads entire maps at a time, very few games stream the gameworld seamlessly around the player. RAGE didn't, other than the megatexture streaming. Usually the ones that do are the large open world games where you want to be able to see over a large distance. See: Elder Scrolls/Fallout series', and GTA.

Also, your "2D blueprints are easier on the computer" idea kind of holds water, except for the fact that modern levels are still the exact same idea, just with a 3rd plane, making it essentially a "3D blueprint".

[ChickenOrBeef]

There's a thread over at NeoGAF where everyone posts their top 10 most anticipated games of 2016. I've gone through the whole thread and unfortunately I rarely saw DOOM mentioned.

And even when it is mentioned, people still seem to be skeptical. They'll say something like "It doesn't look that good, but I'm hoping it's fun!".

Hype...this game has not. I'm curious if Bethesda/iD are planning a big blowout early next year so the larger gamer audience has a better idea of why this game will be good. Their minimalist approach so far isn't really working.

[DooM_RO]

ChickenOrBeef said:

There's a thread over at NeoGAF where everyone posts their top 10 most anticipated games of 2016. I've gone through the whole thread and unfortunately I rarely saw DOOM mentioned.

And even when it is mentioned, people still seem to be skeptical. They'll say something like "It doesn't look that good, but I'm hoping it's fun!".

Hype...this game has not. I'm curious if Bethesda/iD are planning a big blowout early next year so the larger gamer audience has a better idea of why this game will be good. Their minimalist approach so far isn't really working.

From what I have read, people really liked the alpha over there.

[ChickenOrBeef]

DooM_RO said:

From what I have read, people really liked the alpha over there.

Yeah, most of the people who've played it enjoyed it. But I'm talking about the general hype from everyone. It just doesn't seem to be on the radar of your average core gamer.

[DooM_RO]

ChickenOrBeef said:

Yeah, most of the people who've played it enjoyed it. But I'm talking about the general hype from everyone. It just doesn't seem to be on the radar of your average core gamer.

The franchise has been dormant for a long time.

[ChickenOrBeef]

DooM_RO said:

The franchise has been dormant for a long time.

Half-Life and Shenmue have been dormant for just as long, yet we saw the rabid hype for Shenmue 3's announcement and you can bet your butt that a Half-Life 3 announcement would bring the roof down.

Could be a few reasons:

-Doom 3 just wasn't seen as a must-have classic, so people naturally won't be as interested in another installment
-Doom is not a story-based franchise, so it's not like the new DOOM is giving people the next chapter in a compelling saga. In fact, DOOM is telling the same basic story for a third time.
-People don't have good taste like we do

[watstha]

ChickenOrBeef said:

Half-Life and Shenmue have been dormant for just as long, yet we saw the rabid hype for Shenmue 3's announcement and you can bet your butt that a Half-Life 3 announcement would bring the roof down.

Could be a few reasons:

-Doom 3 just wasn't seen as a must-have classic, so people naturally won't be as interested in another installment
-Doom is not a story-based franchise, so it's not like the new DOOM is giving people the next chapter in a compelling saga. In fact, DOOM is telling the same basic story for a third time.
-People don't have good taste like we do

Maybe it´s because of the love this generation has for new FPS´ like Halo or CoD, which I find particularly good, not amazing.

As for the Alpha, I wish id would let us post our thoughts, I´m really getting sick of all the negativity towards this game, especially on youtube.

[TheGamePhilosophe]

ChickenOrBeef said:

Half-Life and Shenmue have been dormant for just as long, yet we saw the rabid hype for Shenmue 3's announcement and you can bet your butt that a Half-Life 3 announcement would bring the roof down.

Could be a few reasons:

-Doom 3 just wasn't seen as a must-have classic, so people naturally won't be as interested in another installment
-Doom is not a story-based franchise, so it's not like the new DOOM is giving people the next chapter in a compelling saga. In fact, DOOM is telling the same basic story for a third time.
-People don't have good taste like we do

It could also be because id just hasn't given gamers much to be excited about, the fans here notwithstanding.

I played the Alpha. It had some clear nods to the old school arena fps along with a few novelties. It was competently put together and decent fun. But that's about it. The stuff they've shown of singular player doesn't seem any more promising. And the disappointing news about SnapMap and modding doesn't help.

Frankly, you should flip your question. What is there about the new DOOM for the average gamer to get excited about? What is it offering that other games haven't already offered in recent years in one form or another?

The original Doom was positively dripping with attitude. It was made by a group of teenage-minded outcasts who had very little thought about markets and sales figures. They mostly just wanted to make the greatest game of all time, and they actually put out a press release making that very claim. And, incredibly, it could be argued that they did!

Contrast that moment with what we see today: A bunch of paunchy, 40-somethings up on a dias awkwardly trying to pronounce words like "ass" and "effing" in a cynical attempt to tap into the hopes of their market researched audience sectors. Their biggest concerns are stock-options and keeping up on their mortgage payments. The game is a salvage job by a salvage team that pushed out almost all the old players at id. Is it that surprising that their game lacks energy and excitement?

[Koko Ricky]

A bit cynical, maybe? I have been very excited about what I've seen so far. Multiplayer is the only thing that doesn't have me super stoked. I think it's mostly because I've seen that sort of tech-base design so many times in Quake 3 Arena and QuakeLive.

[Wild Dog]

Most of the people that hate Doom are just young kids that just don´t know what Doom is or what i was most of us 22 years ago. So let them moan about a franchise that they don´t really know.

And the other % of those that complaing are just people that can´t move on. they are expecting to play Vainilla Doom with Fallout 4 graphics. That people is the same people that wasn´t able to understand that Doom3 had a different approach than Doom 1.
So Far the only ID game that was disappointing (TO ME) was rage, the game looks quite amazing but it felt like more a tech demo than a game.
It suffers from the same problem that MGS V TPP the ending is too abrupt and fells rushed

[ChickenOrBeef]

TheGamePhilosophe said:

Contrast that moment with what we see today: A bunch of paunchy, 40-somethings up on a dias awkwardly trying to pronounce words like "ass" and "effing" in a cynical attempt to tap into the hopes of their market researched audience sectors. Their biggest concerns are stock-options and keeping up on their mortgage payments. The game is a salvage job by a salvage team that pushed out almost all the old players at id. Is it that surprising that their game lacks energy and excitement?

First of all, I think you're being overly cynical here. You can make that same argument for any non-indie game, or at least any game under a major publisher. With that said, I think a "salvage job" could turn out to be a good thing. Instead of getting another solid installment in a well oiled machine, we're getting an "all-in" attempt from a studio that needs to prove itself once again.

TheGamePhilosophe said:

What is there about the new DOOM for the average gamer to get excited about? What is it offering that other games haven't already offered in recent years in one form or another?

Without getting too granular, I think the average gamer should be excited for DOOM because it's providing a rare experience that combines AAA production values with combat that's trying to cut through the bullshit and just be fast, smooth, and brutal.

We've had indie PC shooters in recent years with fast, old-school combat, but they lack cutting edge tech and production values. On the other hand we've had AAA shooters in recent years, but they're often cover-based and/or encourage you to stop often and play slower.

No reloading, no sprinting, no regenerating health, no aiming down the sights (for the most part), no hitscan enemies, etc. All of these decisions help make DOOM more fun at it's core, since the player is constantly moving and riding momentum, focusing on the really fun aspects of a shooter (often all at once). But the game doesn't stop there. The new double-jumping and mantling features, along with the new vertical/platforming based level design, add a whole new layer of fun that fits nicely with an old-school shooter's emphasis on movement and finding items.

And it all feels really smooth and satisfying.

[Kontra Kommando]

I think the "hate" is manufactured by Bethesda in an effort to spur interest in both games. Perhaps they were hoping it would become another Mortal Kombat vs Street Fighter feud, to get all of the kids in school talking about it. For example, Rockstar has fabricated controversy in the past to help push GTA.

http://gamerant.com/grand-theft-auto-controversy/

I'm sure a lot of those people that "hate" Doom, are nothing more than shills.

[ChickenOrBeef]

Kontra Kommando said:

I think the "hate" is manufactured by Bethesda in an effort to spur interest in both games. Perhaps they were hoping it would become another Mortal Kombat vs Street Fighter feud, to get all of the kids in school talking about it. For example, Rockstar has fabricated controversy in the past to help push GTA.

http://gamerant.com/grand-theft-auto-controversy/

I'm sure a lot of those people that "hate" Doom, are nothing more than shills.

I think your theory could be true if the hate was due to the excessive violence, but instead a lot of people think the new Doom is "too slow" or "too generic", etc. That's not exactly the kind of publicity that helps.

I was hoping that Anita Sarkeesian's criticism of the violence would have ballooned into something bigger, since it would help sell the game. But alas, people don't really get riled up over video game violence anymore.

[Kontra Kommando]

ChickenOrBeef said:

I think your theory could be true if the hate was due to the excessive violence, but instead a lot of people think the new Doom is "too slow" or "too generic", etc. That's not exactly the kind of publicity that helps.

I was hoping that Anita Sarkeesian's criticism of the violence would have ballooned into something bigger, since it would help sell the game. But alas, people don't really get riled up over video game violence anymore.

In that case, it's probably a bunch of asshole kids.

I don't envy today's youth, they're so unappreciative of anything. When I first played the original Doom as a kid, I was impressed by the mere fact that the dead bodies didn't disappear like in other games.

[Doomkid]

People saying that Doom4 looks like "more of the same" must be hardcore Quake fans who stuck their head firmly in the sand to games like Halo, CoD and Battlefield or something, because I haven't seen gameplay like this in the mainstream for what feels like an eternity. There's no dev-circlejerk going on like every other fuckin' modern game, very little in the way of wankyness, looks like a game where you grab your gun and shoot shit, while (hopefully) exploring cool looking areas. I haven't seen that in forever.

I think it's not "Über anticipated" because the market these days is "requires no skill and spoon feeds you a story 90% of the time" and this game doesn't really seem to hit any of those marks. And I'm glad it doesn't. I'd rather the game sell half as much and actually be fucking palatable when compared to it's boring ass slow gameplay bullshit wankfest contemporaries.

[DooM_RO]

Doomkid said:

People saying that Doom4 looks like "more of the same" must be hardcore Quake fans who stuck their head firmly in the sand to games like Halo, CoD and Battlefield or something, because I haven't seen gameplay like this in the mainstream for what feels like an eternity. There's no dev-circlejerk going on like every other fuckin' modern game, very little in the way of wankyness, looks like a game where you grab your gun and shoot shit, while (hopefully) exploring cool looking areas. I haven't seen that in forever.

I think it's not "Über anticipated" because the market these days is "requires no skill and spoon feeds you a story 90% of the time" and this game doesn't really seem to hit any of those marks. And I'm glad it doesn't. I'd rather the game sell half as much and actually be fucking palatable when compared to it's boring ass slow gameplay bullshit wankfest contemporaries.

I agree. It doesn't seem like a safe game at all.

[Koko Ricky]

Sometimes I wonder if we're just grumpy cynical grandpas or if modern FPSs really are that lame.

[Touchdown]

A lot of them are awesome. They would have been even more awesome if they weren't designed for people who either have never played a video game before or lose interest after being lost longer than 30sec. It's the design mentality that calls for a quest arrow in a linear game that hampers the experience. But there's a lot of good stuff, provided you do a reality check to see that a lot of those old games were not as flawless as some believe.

For instance, a lot of people say how 90s were full of awesome games. But they tend to conveniently ignore the fact that if you put aside the big ones, you're left with copy&paste clones not even worth a mention. It's the same thing today, just on a bigger scale.

[archvile82]

I know everyone is entitled to have an opinion but this game seems to get criticized more than others. Just look at the neogaf reaction to game informer doom cover
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2016/01/06/game-informer-february-cover-reveal-doom-2416160408.aspx . Now when I saw that it made me even more hyped as f**ked for the game then I read half the comments and they just lay into it. What the hell is wrong with gamers these days???

[DooM_RO]

archvile82 said:

I know everyone is entitled to have an opinion but this game seems to get criticized more than others. Just look at the neogaf reaction to game informer doom cover
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2016/01/06/game-informer-february-cover-reveal-doom-2416160408.aspx . Now when I saw that it made me even more hyped as f**ked for the game then I read half the comments and they just lay into it. What the hell is wrong with gamers these days???

I don't see anything wrong with it.

Damn. Those responses from NeoGaf are beyond retarded.

[Shaviro]

What?
Are we talking about the same thread?

Having read the first page it's like 80% praise and a few people whining about the color. Pretty much the same as on here.

That cover is pretty damn awesome by the way.

EDIT: Having read the entire thread there I still don't see it. The only people whining about it seem to be fans of the original game and it's mostly centered around weird misconceptions about color and lighting.

[archvile82]

Shaviro said:

What?
Are we talking about the same thread?

Having read the first page it's like 80% praise and a few people whining about the color. Pretty much the same as on here.

That cover is pretty damn awesome by the way.

Yeah that is the thread I was talking about, maybe I over reacted but it would be nice just to see more people making a more of a positive buzz for it (Steams Doom forum is just dire for this game).

If that was Dark Souls 3(another favourite of mine) report there would be a 10 page thread on it already.

Anyway click on the game informer link to the doom hub for concept art for the Baron of Hell, look freaking awesome :O

[MrDeAD1313]

archvile82 said:

I know everyone is entitled to have an opinion but this game seems to get criticized more than others. Just look at the neogaf reaction to game informer doom cover
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2016/01/06/game-informer-february-cover-reveal-doom-2416160408.aspx . Now when I saw that it made me even more hyped as f**ked for the game then I read half the comments and they just lay into it. What the hell is wrong with gamers these days???

Holy shit that cover is amazing! Can't wait for the issue now. I'll bet it has some new screenshots or at least one or two pieces of info that I haven't read about 100000000 times already. I have a pretty good feeling about this game :)

[RUSH]

The new Doom certainly has a fair bit of interest, but ultimately more people are into multiplayer these days when it comes to fast paced first person shooters. Call of Duty has dominated that market for so long that kids are probably looking at the new Doom with a lack of excitement. Without the social multiplayer aspect it basically looks like the CoD campaign but with demons. Obviously that's not the case but kids aren't going to understand that from what's been shown on youtube. I've seen a lot of criticisms about Doom looking "repetitive" which is ironic considering these people have all sorts of CoD videos in their favorites. But again, the multiplayer aspect of CoD is always changing. And that's something a campaign can't really match. The multiplayer in Doom really has to pull off a kickass experience to draw in more serious attention. Still should sell at least 3 million copies I hope. I want the new Doom to be successful but we won't know until we play it.

[DooM_RO]

Doesn't it seems strange to you that the reception of the game is more positive here than anywhere else on the internet? Sure, we have a couple of naysayers here but most of the people here like it.

I remember when Thief was announced. The people at TTLG ripped it to shreds.

[RobotJoe]

thi4f was legit garbage tho.

[DooM_RO]

RobotJoe said:

thi4f was legit garbage tho.

My point is that people over there never really gave the game a chance.