Console game?

[quakke]

So, based on what i gathered from the latest quakecon stream doomtalk, it unfortunately seems like this is gonna be very much a console designed game. id reacted oddly on the possibility of the multiplayer having classic arena fps style all weapons mode and they also gave kinda "meh" responce to the possibility of actual real modding with custom textures etc on the snapmap.

Massive amount of hype and interest lost.. :(

[wheresthebeef]

Marty basically hinted that they would release the full tool set, he just didn't confirm it.

[IronDoomer]

Let's hope this isn't true

[geo]

As I keep pointing out to people, PC sales are dwarfed by console sales with rare exceptions. Doom 4 will not be one of those exceptions.

Its better to cater to the crowd that can 100% play it than cater to a crowd that 10 - 50% can play it without an upgrade. I can see the negative reviews now about the PC version. OMG the lag. wtf no crafting system? how the mighty have fallen! You'd think they'd get it right after 12+ years. 500 GB download gtfo?

[SavageCorona]

This game is so badly optimized on my Nvidia 5600 Ultra and 512mb RAM with Pentium IV 2ghz!!!!

hue thats what i used to run doom 3 back in the day

[id.dav]

Mmm...remeber what Carmack said at 20 year of id panel at quakeqon...with original Doom we wanted to bring that console gaming experience to PCs...well they did it, but with that they invented a PC fps....
Honestly I don't really see what makes new Doom a completely console game....there's some compromises due to obvious gamepad limitations...like 2 weapon loadouts for MP...but other than that I don't notice too much of consolisation here. Just the fact that game based around constant fast move is ANTY-CONSOLE already...not a typical thing in console fps market at all.

[rampancy]

two weapon loadout... bc sadomasochism?

[qdash]

id Software of these days is completely different company. All they can do is another game by franchise. No surprise at all.

The only one thing is important - SnapMap mods is not a part of general gamedesign = id don't care about how it will works.

At release we will see much greed with SnapMap, because Bethesda want to sell DLC. No custom textures, limitations, limitations, limitations. And no body cares at id about weapons balance, because gameplay is simple, another fucking CoD with two fucking guns.

[DooM_RO]

NoisM said:

id Software of these days is completely different company. All they can do is another game by franchise. No surprise at all.

The only one thing is important - SnapMap mods is not a part of general gamedesign = id don't care about how it will works.

At release we will see much greed with SnapMap, because Bethesda want to sell DLC. No custom textures, limitations, limitations, limitations. And no body cares at id about weapons balance, because gameplay is simple, another fucking CoD with two fucking guns.

Didn't you listen? They said they would release "proper" modding tools at a later time.

[kelliegator]

I don't mind a focus on consoles but I have concerns on how it might affect player movement. I play a lot of console games and have a PS4 but no one can deny that mouse and keyboard trumps controller. Every. Single. Time.

I guess the most positive thing that can be said is, at least it probably won't be a crap console port like everything Warner Bros. releases.

[EternalWolf]

id.dav said:

there's some compromises due to obvious gamepad limitations...like 2 weapon loadouts for MP...

I dont think a controller really has anything to do with this and Goldeneye/Perfect Dark/TimeSplitters all did fine. Obviously I dont know the control layout but there are many ways around this anyways...

Change weapon on pickup
Previous Weapon button(basically a favorite weapon button as you're most likely to have been holding the weapon you want)

I dont think loadouts are a bad thing or even matter as long as you can have custom ones. I think whats more important is that the maps have powerups/weapons/resources worth seeking out and give the player a reason to explore.

Quake 3 was pretty much rocket launchers and railguns from what I remember, if you didnt have those weapons you werent winning. Thats two weapons right there. Time shouldnt be wasted because of a bad spawn spot or waiting for a decent weapon to spawn, you should be able to kill from the get go. As long as there are "super" weapons to seek out(launchers, railguns, n-bombs, poison guns etc...) along with power ups things should be good.

[id.dav]

Look Marty said that 2 weapon loadout BS is the biggest feedback they got from players so they gotta do something with it...let's wait.

[geo]

SavageCorona said:

This game is so badly optimized on my Nvidia 5600 Ultra and 512mb RAM with Pentium IV 2ghz!!!!

hue thats what i used to run doom 3 back in the day

I probably did too. I've had several computers poorly running Doom 3 for the past decade.

My 33 mHz processor could play the original Doom, now it can't play Doom 4? What a huge step backward iD. You should really know your audience doesn't have a PC outside of 1995.

As for 2 weapon loadouts Duke Forever had that too, but then they patched it out with an option that lets you carry any number.

I see nothing wrong with 2 weapon loadouts, does anyone really change that many weapons? Even playing the original game, I only change weapons when I'm out of ammo. At least with Team Fortress 2 there are reasons to change your weapons.

When you have all weapons and then suddenly don't have all weapons people complain. Its like making more money and then your boss telling you that a pay cut is coming.

And yes keyboard and mouse trumps controller. What trumps mouse is having automatic vertical aim like the original Doom. I used to use keyboard only more efficiently than I did with a mouse.

[SavageCorona]

Yeah my old Pentium 4 machine only ran Doom 3 on maybe medium or something like that. The sound card also didn't support OpenAL the sound constantly got "stuck" where it would loop a certain part of the audio while the game carries on running (like when games used to crash and you got the sound loop thing except it didn't crash). This actually broke certain parts of Quake 4 where dialog was droning on and it wouldn't let me past the invisible walls until the audio finished fucking up. I was a child (11) ok don't be mean to me for liking that game.

Also Duke only let you carry 4 when they patched it and it still didn't let you use the numbers, forcing you to use the mousewheel or that dumbass press 1 to swap weapons which became press 1 to cycle weapons.

[Tristan]

I get graphical glitches about 20 minutes into playing Doom 3 that render the game unplayable. Maybe I need play around with the graphics settings a bit more, but the hardware is from last year for fuck's sake. Doom 3 was already 10 years old!
Makes me wonder why I'm so excited about the new Doom really, heh.
It's coming out next year! Probably won't actually play it until the next decade though o.o

[kelliegator]

geo said:

I see nothing wrong with 2 weapon loadouts, does anyone really change that many weapons? Even playing the original game, I only change weapons when I'm out of ammo. At least with Team Fortress 2 there are reasons to change your weapons.

In Quake Live different weapons can be used for different purposes so changing them is crucial because each individual weapon has a purpose along with strengths and flaws.

That and I don't like the idea of being able to spawn with a powerful weapon of your choosing, there's no learning curve on how to be good at multiplayer that way, IMO. And it increases the possibility of spawn frags, which can be annoying.

[qdash]

Look Marty said that 2 weapon loadout BS is the biggest feedback they got from players so they gotta do something with it...let's wait.

Glad to hear.

[Justince]

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Edited August 1, 2017 by Justince

[TheGamePhilosophe]

DooM_RO said:

Didn't you listen? They said they would release "proper" modding tools at a later time.

They did not confirm that. Stratton said SnapMap is not a replacement for mod tools, but he never actually said that mod tools were coming, only that modding is something "near and dear to id."

Based on Sratton's reaction to the question, I think modding is still under debate right now. They are aware of it, but aren't sure how much of a priority to make it and what sort of tools they want to make available. For this reason, I think PC players who want this should continue to voice their wishes to id.

Kudos to the guy who asked the question about modding, as well as the guy who asked the question about loadouts. They did a great service to us all by helping press it upon id how important these features are to many of us.

[geo]

I had all sorts of graphical Doom 3 glitches on different computers. I didn't run it on my last "unofficial Steam Box," but on my current machine Doom BFG runs awesome.

Some of the errors include, the models were split in half. Like with a black shadow line. Then the objects are bright with the exception of that line.

Other glitches include a door glitch where opening a door would show red freeze the game until the other room loaded. VSync horribly out of sync. Anything through a window was just a red room.

[Zemini]

Justince said:

It would be financial suicide to NOT cater to the console market. Have you seen the numbers? Those things are ruling the landscape. Of course Bethesda is going to make it as accessible as possible to controller-junkies, we just have to let it roll.

They can still cater but don't hold the PC master race hostage!

Ill probably still buy both Xbox One and PC versions anyways.

[SavageCorona]

geo said:

I had all sorts of graphical Doom 3 glitches on different computers. I didn't run it on my last "unofficial Steam Box," but on my current machine Doom BFG runs awesome.

Some of the errors include, the models were split in half. Like with a black shadow line. Then the objects are bright with the exception of that line.

Other glitches include a door glitch where opening a door would show red freeze the game until the other room loaded. VSync horribly out of sync. Anything through a window was just a red room.

Christ I'm lucky this didn't happen to me.

[geo]

SavageCorona said:

Christ I'm lucky this didn't happen to me.

It was still playable, but I just didn't have the video card I guess. The first time I ever really felt the need to upgrade my video card was with Morrowind. I encountered the enchantment affect. See with normal video cards its a shine. With my video card at the time, that shine was like a sheet draped over the item. I thought it was odd a naked nord would be wearing a sheet over his head. Nope, just my video card.

Then I upgraded again for Hard Reset. Now I just buy better computers. Well work would buy me computers... just not gaming computers. Why not give your employee the ability to work in spare time?

[Tritnew]

I'm sure It won't be a Console Ported game to the PC, I mean, take The New Order for example and You'll see what I mean by a Console Ported game. DOOM was born on the PC, and It always will be on the PC.

[PsychoGoatee]

Maybe a side-topic, but are any posters on here possibly going to play Doom 4 on a console at first? I could see some Doom fans not having a blazing cutting edge computer at all times.

My rig is pretty good, from three years ago, but even that is starting to feel outdated now. An older i5 processor, nvidia 560ti (200+ bucks), etc. It played Witcher 2 but from what I hear it wouldn't play Witcher 3 well, and the processor is holding it back so just upgrading the video card wouldn't do it. Plus a notable upgrade for my card would cost the bulk of what a console costs. And I have a Playstation 4 already.

So as much as I'm an oldschool PC FPS fan and I'd love to play this on PC, odds are I'll play it on PS4. Because it probably just won't run well on my rig, that's my guess anyway. I do play say Killing Floor 2 well. Granted it may be early to speculate about recommended specs.

And personally, for the single-player experience I really don't mind playing on a console. And for say Bioshock Infinite, I played that on my PC, but used my TV and an Xbox controller anyway, since it doesn't require much twitch aiming.

Considering some get a new gaming rig say every five years, sometimes a game falls at a time when it's more convenient to play it on a console. So I think having these options of actually decent console ports is a bonus of gaming at the moment.

[VGames]

I have only owned 1 Doom game on console and that was on my SNES. I'll never do that again. I'm dropping $1500 into my PC next year to make sure I'm ready. Replacing motherboard and all. I have a PS4 already but I'm not playing Doom on that. PC all the way.

[PsychoGoatee]

VGames said:

I have only owned 1 Doom game on console and that was on my SNES. I'll never do that again. I'm dropping $1500 into my PC next year to make sure I'm ready. Replacing motherboard and all. I have a PS4 already but I'm not playing Doom on that. PC all the way.

To be fair, the gap has closed considerably since then. Even as recently as the Xbox/PS2 gen it would've been rough playing a PC FPS port on consoles, now it's not bad at all.

Doom 4 will play perfectly on consoles I'm sure. And they even are saying it'll be 60 FPS at 1080p on consoles. If anybody can pull it off, it's id. But for multiplayer I would prefer keyboard and mouse on PC.

[VGames]

I know that my PS4 can pull it off. It's the principle of it all. If I bought a console version of Doom I would always have that cheated feeling. The PC version is where home is for Doom. Plus if by chance they did surprise us with a full tool set for modding I sure as heck wouldn't want to buy another copy. Then I'd feel real dumb like everybody who bought a console release when they had a PC that could run the game.

[kelliegator]

My preferred OS is Mac OS X and my Macbook Pro Retina isn't exactly high-end so my planned strategy is getting the PS4 version at launch and maybe the PC version when it's cheaper and I have a better computer. That's what I did with other Doom games... except the original version of Doom 3.

[quakke]

PsychoGoatee said:

Doom 4 will play perfectly on consoles

Hehe, now that's quite a stretch :D

I'm sure you know but reason it works someway on consoles, is because they had to once again pretty much build the whole game around the capabilities of the controller and actually implement something that the controller can handle, such as bullettime while switching weapons. Guess why there is the mp loadouts instead of full arsenal? Because you can't exactly slowdown time and take your time switching weapons in realtime online deatchmatch and don't try to tell me that it's easier to manage 10-15 weapons via contoller than on hotkeys on PC keyboard.

It annoys me how due to controller being not meant for fps, they instead do everything to make it "work" on controllers. Like now they just instead thought they could just Loadout the whole mp. I hope they aren't getting away with it because on PC we have the right to real dm. Also, it once again doesn't exactly "play perfectly" if the entire genre has had to been slowed down and simplified (regenerating health, aimdownsights, holstered sprint) just so that the controller can play it (in doom 4's case bullettime weapon switch in sp and loadouts in mp). Bring true PC fps straight to consoles, such as Quake 1 or Half-Life 1 and it most certainly is clunky when played with controller because they are alot faster and twitchy than todays "realistic" military shooters..

I excuse and my intent is not to do any "PC mastarace yayay!!!!". No, but i simply don't accept it when people act as that the "fps works perfectly on consoles" because it's simply not true. Steam controller possibly will make it more playable but it still will not be a competition for m+kb user because you simply can't play the genre the same way you can on m+kb because the mouse and keyboard doesn't get behind or are too slow.