PC will not receive additional modding tools beyond SnapMap

[DMPhobos]

kelliegator said:

I'm curious, define "scripting". I'm no tech wizard but it does seem that Snapmap lets you do custom game modes and work with game logic like maybe character speed and things like that.

Well i may be wrong, but from what i've seen on the snapmap trailer, the custom game modes are done with "logic objects", you just "snap" some logic, and in a way it's like making a small script. Again, i may be wrong if this is how it works, but to me it's just like making a script. It may not involve code, but to me it looks like it

[Buckshot]

MetroidJunkie said:

It's not out of the question for Bethesda to approve of extra modding options, GECK for both their Fallout games were pretty flexible in what kinds of mods they allowed people to do.

That's actually a really good example I entirely forgot about.

[Reisal]

Well then if this is true, you can count me out on buying the new game then.

[Fulgrim]

If Doom 4 turns out to be good game, I'll still get it. But, if we are not getting modding tools outside of SnapMap, I'll be buying Doom 4 when it's on sale for dirt cheap.

[Xaero_Four]

Fulgrim said:

If Doom 4 turns out to be good game, I'll still get it. But, if we are not getting modding tools outside of SnapMap, I'll be buying Doom 4 when it's on sale for dirt cheap.

I wouldn't sweat it too much. I mean what high profile PC game out there doesn't have some form of additional modding tools out there? I'm sure there's some examples but you know what I mean. People like to use consoles as a scapegoat for bringing down PC gaming but I highly doubt that's gonna effect what kind of tools the PC community gets.

Have a little faith people. We tend to take things out of proportion.

[Buckshot]

Glaice said:

Well then if this is true, you can count me out on buying the new game then.

I thought the new cyberdemon design was the reason you weren't buying doom 4? :P

[Reisal]

@Buckshot:

Haha, no I haven't said I'm not buying it because of that, I do have a small laundry list of complaints but nothing major besides the Cyberdemon's design. Modding, however can be a deal breaker especially for the Doom franchise if the information is proven true if we're limited to editing levels with SnapMap.

[DooM_RO]

Relevant information at 48:50

http://www.twitch.tv/bethesda/v/8544322

"The Snapmap feature looks to me like it's something that could really extend the life of Doom and keep us playing it for years and years but does it include or are there any plans to include the ability to modify textures, character models, weapons, anything like that"?
Marty Stratton:


"The base Snapmap doesn't but I actually want to make this point. Snapmap is our approach to making everybody have the ability to mod "in some fashion" it doesn't in our mind replace our desire to make our tools and technology available like we always have to real programmers. Now I will say, if you've done that, if you've been a modmaker I highly encourage you to try Snapmap too because just the fuctionality in there is really cool. My favorite part about Snapmap is that everybody has all the data so is you've been a modmaker or somebody who makes levels or texture packs to have somebody play your stuff requires you to upload it and to download it and things like Steam Workshop have made that easier but with Snapmap literally everyone has everything and the only data that passes between clients is a little instruction file. The depth of the stuff you can make is going to blow you away. We had a guy in QA that made a piano. So I highly encourage everyone to try Snapmap but fear not, making our stuff available to you is near and dear to our hearts so it certainly isn't a replacement"

[snapshot]

They're trying to force people to get bored of DOOM 4, They might succeed in that .

[Jaxxoon R]

I dunno man, a piano? I could just spend hours of fun mashing the keys.

[SavageCorona]

DOOM IS DEAD ALL HAIL THE NEXT GENERIC AAA SHOOTER

[snapshot]

SavageCorona said:

DOOM IS DEAD ALL HAIL THE NEXT GENERIC AAA SHOOTER

Eh, as long as it's not Call of Booty .

[Avoozl]

Hopefully this will cause people to want to make a high graphics capable source port for the original Doom with all the new pretty effects such as normal mapping, bloom and whatever else.

[kristus]

That's easy enopugh. Just add the shaders to ports like Doomsday or GZDoom.

[DooM_RO]

Avoozl said:

Hopefully this will cause people to want to make a high graphics capable source port for the original Doom with all the new pretty effects such as normal mapping, bloom and whatever else.

You make it sound so easy.

[VGamingJunkie]

There's sort of a way to do Bloom, but things like normal mapping wouldn't be possible with Doom's sector lighting engine. You'd have to completely restructure its lighting system for something like that.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6wZ33_vUXw

[Gzegzolka]

DooM_RO said:

Relevant information at 48:50

http://www.twitch.tv/bethesda/v/8544322

"The Snapmap feature looks to me like it's something that could really extend the life of Doom and keep us playing it for years and years but does it include or are there any plans to include the ability to modify textures, character models, weapons, anything like that"?
Marty Stratton:


"The base Snapmap doesn't but I actually want to make this point. Snapmap is our approach to making everybody have the ability to mod "in some fashion" it doesn't in our mind replace our desire to make our tools and technology available like we always have to real programmers. Now I will say, if you've done that, if you've been a modmaker I highly encourage you to try Snapmap too because just the fuctionality in there is really cool. My favorite part about Snapmap is that everybody has all the data so is you've been a modmaker or somebody who makes levels or texture packs to have somebody play your stuff requires you to upload it and to download it and things like Steam Workshop have made that easier but with Snapmap literally everyone has everything and the only data that passes between clients is a little instruction file. The depth of the stuff you can make is going to blow you away. We had a guy in QA that made a piano. So I highly encourage everyone to try Snapmap but fear not, making our stuff available to you is near and dear to our hearts so it certainly isn't a replacement"

Personally I think that we should look on what makes half life 2 modding so popular while D3 not, to understood that statement. I think about it for a while and I believe that id software try to follow Valve and create something like Garry's mod for source. Maybe they think that D3 tools were too hard for community.

[Arctangent]

tourettes said:

I don't get it, they are trying to sell Doom 4 as living up to the roots of Doom from 1993, but they give us an editor that is a joke. The original Doom was all about modding the entire game, YOU CAN'T with snapmap.

I wasn't aware you could do more than make maps and replace sounds and graphics in classic Doom until the community itself came up with DeHackEd and advanced source ports. SnapMap seems to just replace the visual stuff with allowing the scripting of new game modes and modifying actor traits naturally - although the fact that you won't ( initially? ) be able to do much, if any, out-doors is quite the bummer.

Still, given the contradictory answers it might not be so much "PC will not get more powerful tools" as it is "PC will not get more powerful tools on release." There's no promises for that, but I just get the feeling that they're going to let SnapMap take the immediate spotlight and then release the stuff for more advanced users later down the line. Valve sort of did this with TF2; while Hammer had been available for quite a while, actually being able to use official source files for the official maps as references was something that didn't happen until later down the line.

Either that or some people are just trying to set up a "hey we were just kidding" scenario and not everyone's on-board, so they are fully intending to release full mapping tools on release but they're trying to make it a bit of a publicity stunt. Or they're gauging audience reactions, something along those lines.

[Reisal]

The other big question is...How many preset pieces are there for use in SnapMap? It should be at least 200 or more minimum because eventually you will run out of combinations to use.

[DooM_RO]

Glaice said:

The other big question is...How many preset pieces are there for use in SnapMap? It should be at least 200 or more minimum because eventually you will run out of combinations to use.

Not only that, but how is that going to affect the single player campaign?

[Koko Ricky]

The fact that you won't be able to recreate something as simple as E1M1 bugs me. Not because I'm super eager for the nostalgia factor, but because it means that a 21-year-old game has more modding depth than its brand new incarnation. I suspect PC users will get something exclusive, but it's not being developed or focused on right now because the more accessible nature of SnapMap is very attractive and that's what they want to show off.

[Blastfrog]

So far, Snapmap sounds pretty good, from what they describe. It remains to be seen in practice, of course, but I'm not gonna jump to conclusions that it's anything less than what they say it is without evidence.

Arctangent said:

publicity stunt ... gauging audience reactions

Nah, more likely it's poor internal communication about the messaging. Two different PR guys were likely told "no low-level tools on release" and one of them didn't catch the last part.

DMGUYDZ64 said:

They're trying to force people to get bored of DOOM 4

Your custom title suits you.

[snapshot]

Sodaholic said:

Your custom title suits you.

Did i ignore something ?

[Blastfrog]

DMGUYDZ64 said:

Did i ignore something ?

I realize that you were probably being hyperbolic, but they're actually doing a pretty good job marketing. They know people don't want to be limited to Fisher-Price level of flexibility (or lack thereof), so they're quick and frequent to point out that they've put (what they consider to be) a high degree of customization. Whether or not you're adverse to their marketing attempts, you can't deny that they (mostly) have their eye on the ball.

If you wanna see bad marketing, look at Nintendo and how badly they dropped the ball with the Wii U. Just pitiful and incompetent. It's weird, since they so aggressively marketed the original Wii, but seemingly forgot to this time around. Nintendo is clearly dysfunctional. Iwata's death is sad, but maybe it'll give them the chance to reorganize and get more forward thinking and proactive management.

[EternalWolf]

After DOOM 3 and RAGE pretty much erased id Software's modding community I dont see the big deal here. We are going to get better maps and mods with SnapMap then we ever got on id Tech 4 and 5, sans The Dark Mod and a very select few stand-alone games that took years to make.

Hexen and Phobos have been in development seemingly since the game was released and Classic DOOM 3 is really the only other memorable mod I can think of off the top of my head unless you count Duct Tape and Last Man Standing. QUAKE 4 has... False Down. RAGE has nothing.

[Gzegzolka]

Let's see. I'm not good with Rage tool-kit but there is Id.Dav Rage Re-balance mod, he tweak some stuff like damage and prices for loot, made arena for single player and two nice looking levels. The problem with that tool-kit is:
1. It take lot of place on HD
2. It do not have stuff to make bandits and mutants use environment
3. It give access only to some limited resources from three maps while in game there was much more content
4. It was released too late, when most people lost interest in it

There was also two smaller mods - one with friendly NPC companion and one that add's more cars, but it was broken.

As for D3, sure D1,D2 and their ports got much more mods. I remember some fun single sp maps, projects with 2-3 sp maps and bigger mods with own story and assets. I wonder, I 'm sure that F.E.A.R got mod tools too, but there is even less mods for it.

[VGamingJunkie]

I just hope, if there is indeed a bar limiting how much stuff you can place down, that it isn't too restrictive. I hope you still get some degree of flexibility here, maybe an option to turn off the limiting factor at the cost of not being able to share it on their inter-console service. There's always Steam Workshop.

[kelliegator]

GoatLord said:

The fact that you won't be able to recreate something as simple as E1M1 bugs me. Not because I'm super eager for the nostalgia factor, but because it means that a 21-year-old game has more modding depth than its brand new incarnation. I suspect PC users will get something exclusive, but it's not being developed or focused on right now because the more accessible nature of SnapMap is very attractive and that's what they want to show off.

This is where I'm confused because didn't a quote from Marty Stratton or Pete Hines say in an article that "It won't take long for someone to recreate the original doom" or something along those lines?

[NoirSuede]

MetroidJunkie said:

I just hope, if there is indeed a bar limiting how much stuff you can place down, that it isn't too restrictive. I hope you still get some degree of flexibility here, maybe an option to turn off the limiting factor at the cost of not being able to share it on their inter-console service. There's always Steam Workshop.

Maybe they'll have the base SnapMap that's the same across all platforms, and then for the PC version there'll be an advanced mode that's way more flexible, but when you turn on the advanced mode the SnapMap would give you a warning that says that everything that's made under advanced mode can't be put on Bethesda.net

[VGamingJunkie]

kelliegator said:

This is where I'm confused because didn't a quote from Marty Stratton or Pete Hines say in an article that "It won't take long for someone to recreate the original doom" or something along those lines?

I can't find it but Adam Sessler had an interview with someone from ID, asked jokingly if someone could recreate E1M1, and the guy said they can try, implying it's at least possible.