PC will not receive additional modding tools beyond SnapMap

[Arctangent]

NoirSuede said:

Maybe they'll have the base SnapMap that's the same across all platforms, and then for the PC version there'll be an advanced mode that's way more flexible, but when you turn on the advanced mode the SnapMap would give you a warning that says that everything that's made under advanced mode can't be put on Bethesda.net

It would be cool if there is indeed a SnapMap mode that changes the prefabs from entire rooms to walls, ceilings, floors, stairs, portals ( as in, what they're using to connect rooms ), etc. Unsure how well it'd actually work, but it definitely seems like a good compromise for advanced tools that work on console.

[Blastfrog]

It could be something like how people made stuff in Halo 3 by using big areas and building inward with props.

So here, you'd start with a big room primitive, and work your way in with big obstacles, reshaping and shrinking the available area until it's as you want it.

I hope it's flexible in that way if you can't build truly custom rooms. And they should really consider having some outdoor prefabs, I dunno why they chose not to. Maybe they think it'd be too hard for users to align to a grid?

[Chubzdoomer]

I called it shortly after the E3/SnapMap reveal!

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1382624

I have a strange feeling that we won't get proper mod tools (like a "full" map editor, for example), since it would allow folks to potentially create content that would rival what they could create themselves and sell to us as DLC. I could be wrong, but that's my theory.

Not that I'm proud of it or anything. I wish my theory had been wrong. :-(

Also, SnapMap sounds massively disappointing and restrictive, just as I'd feared. I guess even a basic level editor is better than nothing, though.

[DooM_RO]

chubz said:

I called it shortly after the E3/SnapMap reveal!

http://www.doomworld.com/vb/post/1382624

Not that I'm proud of it or anything. I wish my theory had been wrong. :-(

Also, SnapMap sounds massively disappointing and restrictive, just as I'd feared. I guess even a basic level editor is better than nothing, though.

So what? Id released their tools for Doom 3 and RAGE the modding scene simply did not take off (especially in the case of RAGE). Sure, Doom 3 has 5-10 good single-player maps, has Phobos and the Dark Mod but among all that there are tons of abandoned projects made by people who bit more than they could chew and Phobos is entering its 11th year of production. With Snapmap at least people can do SOMETHING.

Would I like more advanced mod tools? Sure but I understand why Id would not release more advanced tools.

[Caffeine Freak]

DooM_RO said:

I linked the Phobos thread on Garrett Young's twitter and he was mighty impressed.

could you link me to those tweets? I'd love to see what he said.

[DooM_RO]

Caffeine Freak said:

could you link me to those tweets? I'd love to see what he said.

He just favorited my tweet and then I think he followed your page.

[DooM_RO]

I asked Pete Hines to clarify the situation. This is what I could get.

"we have a mod tool/mode in DOOM. What may or may not happen later, per Marty's comment/desire, remains to be seen. That's all"

Source

https://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/627894816991485952

[id.dav]

DooM_RO said:

I asked Pete Hines to clarify the situation. This is what I could get.

"we have a mod tool/mode in DOOM. What may or may not happen later, per Marty's comment/desire, remains to be seen. That's all"

Source

https://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/627894816991485952

Oh....so Doom officially have mod support, but they just don't want to talk about it!
Maybe it's like when you type "idstudio" in standart Rage it does nothing...however in rage64 it loads tool kit....but while it may load tool kit if actual tool kit content wasn't downloaded then it just an empty tool.

So we may expect idstudio is part of doom but the content will not be available at the launch, but actual size of doom's idstudio could be pretty huge.
Anyway thanks for asking Pete))

[Linguica]

Assuming the PC version really will have general mod support, id really ought to get out in front of this ASAP. Soon it will become "common knowledge" that PC Doom 4 won't have any sort of mod support, and it will become increasingly difficult for them to correct people's assumptions.

[id.dav]

I pretty much expect they'll do the exact same thing as with Rage...they'll just release idstudio for doom, but there will be NO ANY OFFICIALL SUPPORT!
"Use guys our internal tech, but no help provided! This tools are released as is and only for technically sophisticated and adventurous, har, har har!" )))

[DooM_RO]

Linguica said:

Assuming the PC version really will have general mod support, id really ought to get out in front of this ASAP. Soon it will become "common knowledge" that PC Doom 4 won't have any sort of mod support, and it will become increasingly difficult for them to correct people's assumptions.

Which is exactly why I tweeted Hines.

If he and the rest of id/Bethesda respond to my tweets then I'm sure a collective effort would bear some fruits. It is likely that core gameplay features can't be changed anymore but I don't think asking for a classic mode with no loadouts and better Snapmap features on the PC is unreasonable. We just gotta make our voices heard.

If Snapmap is part of the beta maybe we could even host a community project to show that we have the dedication and skill to make something good and that we could handle more complex tools. I am quite sure that they are at least in part apprehensive of the idea of releasing complex mod tools because no one did anything with the RAGE tools. If we can show them that we are dedicated and skilled and that it won't be a waste of time on their part I think we could get what we want.

[id.dav]

DooM_RO said:

no one did anything with the RAGE tools

Creating maps in Rage tool kit is pretty easy! So it's not that complex actually...anybody familiar with id's radiants can make a Rage map.

[quakke]

Afaic, there is nothing that should be unclear how doom is supposed to be, that this image wouldn't explain.

If with snapmap we can't even recreate 100% this iconic E1M1, then it should be very obvious that snapmap isn't fit for the job..

http://www.classicdoom.com/maps/d1maps/e1m1.htm

E1M1 isn't even anything truly complex.

[id.dav]

quakke said:

Afaic, there is nothing that should be unclear how doom is supposed to be, that this image wouldn't explain.

If with snapmap we can't even recreate 100% this iconic E1M1, then it should be very obvious that snapmap isn't fit for the job..

http://www.classicdoom.com/maps/d1maps/e1m1.htm

E1M1 isn't even anything truly complex.

I'm pretty sure we can't but in a proper world editor like Rage's idstudio this is a piece of cake! Like no problem at all! Geometry, lighting, textures and you can even put unique stamping in E1M1 wich would look even more badass!

[quakke]

Have you heard of any confirmation for idstudio or some modified GTKradiant or something? I haven't and that was my point..

[VGamingJunkie]

I have no reason to believe that Bethesda would interfere with modding in any way, given how strong the modding community for their own games has been. Unless I'm mistaken, the only real restriction they imposed was ID not being able to release the source code for this engine as they'd done in the past, that shouldn't impact modding too much.

[id.dav]

quakke said:

Have you heard of any confirmation for idstudio or some modified GTKradiant or something? I haven't and that was my point..

Nobody did! I just wanted to say that if they'll give us doom idstudio then our dreams could come true, but then I'm affraid it would be completely unsupported and we'd have to deal with complexity of the doom tools on our own.

[id.dav]

.....

[IronDoomer]

http://www.pcgamer.com/doom-will-not-get-mod-support-in-addition-to-snapmap/

In more recent news, the new doom will not get mod support beyond snapmap

This article also explains the limitations of snapmap like, Incapable of making outdoor areas, not being as flexible as previous doom modding tools and much much more

Are you guys starting to see what I mean, their just ruining this series for all of us

[Xaero_Four]

IronDoomer said:

http://www.pcgamer.com/doom-will-not-get-mod-support-in-addition-to-snapmap/

In more recent news, the new doom will not get mod support beyond snapmap

This article also explains the limitations of snapmap like, Incapable of making outdoor areas, not being as flexible as previous doom modding tools and much much more

Are you guys starting to see what I mean, their just ruining this series for all of us

I'm not jumping to any conclusions because there are statements being made out there that contradict this. Besides I have a hard time believing that the PC crowd wont be getting some form of additional tools to work with, considering all Id games have mod support, and bethesda being one of the most mod supportive publishers out there. I've never heard of a high profile PC game like Doom not getting mod support.

[IronDoomer]

Ehhh its best if they just leave doom how it is instead of just fucking it up for everybody

[DooM_RO]

IronDoomer said:

http://www.pcgamer.com/doom-will-not-get-mod-support-in-addition-to-snapmap/

In more recent news, the new doom will not get mod support beyond snapmap

This article also explains the limitations of snapmap like, Incapable of making outdoor areas, not being as flexible as previous doom modding tools and much much more

Are you guys starting to see what I mean, their just ruining this series for all of us

Could you please stop it?!

The guy who wrote the article probably didn't read Hine's tweet. Calm the fuck down.

[DooM_RO]

Bethesda are going to Gamescom. Hold on yo your rage boners until then.

[qdash]

DooM_RO said:

Bethesda are going to Gamescom. Hold on yo your rage boners until then.

Techradar:

Don't expect footage of any of the other Bethesda titles - Gamescom will be dedicated to the nuclear wasteland.

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/gamescom-2015-what-you-should-expect-from-microsoft-bethesda-and-others-1299892

:/

[DooM_RO]

NoisM said:

Techradar:

http://www.techradar.com/news/gaming/gamescom-2015-what-you-should-expect-from-microsoft-bethesda-and-others-1299892

:/

I found this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIRnkWbGP0M

[Quasar]

I will be happy when Fallout gets released already. Too much hype. "OMG there's a dog again WOOOOOO"

[Koko Ricky]

id would be absolutely stupid not to include true PC mod support. It's probably not being emphasized right now because SnapMap is more accessible and cross-platform friendly. But I have to admit, something as simple as not being able to make outdoor areas seems...oddly limiting.

[DooM_RO]

GoatLord said:

id would be absolutely stupid not to include true PC mod support. It's probably not being emphasized right now because SnapMap is more accessible and cross-platform friendly. But I have to admit, something as simple as not being able to make outdoor areas seems...oddly limiting.

It's not "simple"

Making levels in Skyrim is similar to snapmap although the UI is less user-friendly. Making catacombs and forts is pretty easy because you just slap on a few prefabs and set the lighting. Making something like a cave is a lot trickier.

[Gzegzolka]

Xaero_Four said:

I'm not jumping to any conclusions because there are statements being made out there that contradict this. Besides I have a hard time believing that the PC crowd wont be getting some form of additional tools to work with, considering all Id games have mod support, and bethesda being one of the most mod supportive publishers out there. I've never heard of a high profile PC game like Doom not getting mod support.

First of all - I also read that tweet. If I understood that primary goal for id software is to release doom and snapmap. And what is more important - to be sure that it will work and look the same on pc/ps/xbox. It's not hard to understood that if pc version look superior than ps/xbox users will not buy it in great numbers, and if for example xbox get some exclusive content pc/ps gamers will be pissed of. If id software have some kind of game editor that could be used to make mods it is only their good will to release it. So it is very much "maybe" option, maybe yes, maybe no. It's too early to push them to release those tools. I believe their decision will be related to how much new doom they sell and how much positive scores they will earn. Like if everybody just call it average game they will not be motivated to give us their tools.

[TheGamePhilosophe]

DooM_RO said:

I asked Pete Hines to clarify the situation. This is what I could get.

"we have a mod tool/mode in DOOM. What may or may not happen later, per Marty's comment/desire, remains to be seen. That's all"

Source

https://twitter.com/DCDeacon/status/627894816991485952

This makes me glad I started the furor on reddit about modding that has now evidently made it to PC Gamer.

Right now, it seems like id has not put much thought into modding beyond SnapMap. Stratton didn't have a solid answer to the QuakeCon QA panel and Pete Hines seems unaware of anything else in the works. His tweet via DooM_RO is vague and could mean a lot of things.

Hopefully because the modding issue has become high profile now, id will be getting this question more frequently all around and will have to clarify as a result.

What is more, I hope they are starting to see how important modding is to the community most interested in the game, and that this is putting pressure on them to deliver something that will please their fans.

However, I don't think we should stop now and wait or assume this or that about id's true intentions. We should continue to make clear our desire for advanced modding so that id understands how much the success of Doom depends on providing those tools.