The Great Immersion Debate

[Avoozl]

Xaero_Four said:

Of all the earlier COD installments to choose from you went with a console game? Different strokes for different folks, it's just hard to compute that someone would prefer that over one of the PC installments.

That being said I did like MoH quite a bit.

Console or not it was pretty much different but also more varied than the first CoD with a more interesting story.

But I usually prefer PC games over console games anyway and would just rather not play any CoD at all when there is much better WII based games for PC out there than it.

[quakke]

Xaero_Four said:

I'm willing to bet you would've had a blast had you been apart of it.

And i was, because my first (and last.. ok i lied, cod4 i completed also) cod game was CoD2 back in 2005 and it was a game that kept me entertained for a good 20mins until i wanted to play something more interesting. I prefered games like Half-Life addons (only few years old back then) or Quake2, Duke3D or stuff over cod. Couldn't run DOOM3, HL2 or FC back in their release, because they were those 3 powerengine games that set the standard for new graphics quality. MOHAA was also indeed nice and better than cod because being more authentic.

CoD is overrated series, completely. Honestly you have now just rosetinted glasses about it because cod1 is literally gameplay-wise not that different, to say cod4. Yes i know cod1 used healthpacks but it was still the same overly scripted extremely linear levels gameplay, that has kept going still to this day :D

[Orchid87]

And who plays COD for singleplayer anyway? I have some fun with COD4 and BO1 multiplayer from time to time because I like a military shooter fix sometimes and I suck at CS. But a singleplayer which feels like a park ride bores me quickly. I prefer some exploration on my games.

[rampancy]

the thing is op, doom was as good as it got when it was released. there were no games that did what doom does plus what you think it was missing at the time...

as far as sound effects, there were not any games afaik that had music plus sound effects plus ambient noise. and there was no dynamic music. the fact that the doom music was catchy and memorable was all a person could hope for in those days. ambient noise was being able to hear the monsters making their noises in the level hunting you down. honestly, every time doom comes up my dad tells me how great the sound effects are lol. and the music does has different moods and atmospheres, level by level. there is a big difference between e1m1 and e1m5. actually to me the music was the number one source of atmosphere, and to this day i feel like good music is still the number one source of good atmosphere.

[Orchid87]

rampancy said:

ambient noise was being able to hear the monsters making their noises in the level hunting you down.

Nope, those are just monster sounds. Ambient is the sound of wind blowing, water flowing, machinery humming, computers bleeping, etc. IIRC Quake was the first game to have those.

[quakke]

Orchid87 said:

Nope, those are just monster sounds. Ambient is the sound of wind blowing, water flowing, machinery humming, computers bleeping, etc. IIRC Quake was the first game to have those.

Duke3D actually had sound of helicopter flying every now and then, weird enviromental sound (maybe airplane flying?) and water flowing if broke toilet or firehydrant.. Duke3D came before Quake.

[Ravey]

Immersion is an unclear term. This thread seems to be more about suspension of disbelief than immersion.

In the 80s, arcade games were considered immersive because they were physically and mentally taxing to play. Skill-based games are intrinsically immersive because they require quick reflexes (hand-eye coordination) and reasoning (spatial reasoning, resource management, puzzle solving) in order to proceed.

In the 90s, immersion came to refer to two kinds of games:

1. Games that required the use of your eyes and ears
   ex. Doom, Thief
   
2. Games with immersive 3D environments and sound
   ex. Myst, Half-Life
   

Most modern games aren't as demanding of your reflexes, senses or reasoning; so in that respect, they're less immersive.

[viridian]

Nanomen said:

I mean, just look at what games like Wolfenstein: The New Order and Duke Nukem: Forever 2013 did. They stayed somewhat true to the original formula while also improving and adding upon it's core gameplay elements to create a better experience.

What.

[quakke]

I assume he is talking about a fanmade mod for Duke 3D, which set to recreate the DNF experience from all the shown DNF trailers over the years aswell as they could. This was released in 2013 whereas the main game released in 2011. So i would think he is referring to that, since there was no other Duke Forever released in 2013 because the commercial game doesn't support modding and because making anything Duke related mod on any other engine but build engine, ends up in terminating of the mod.

[snapshot]

Nanomen said:

One of the biggest reasons I'm not a big fan of classic Doom and don't really see why so many people call it such an atmospheric game

Was classic Doom ever atmospheric .?, do they really call it atmospheric ?

[Jaxxoon R]

Doom 64, PSX Doom.

[snapshot]

Jaxxoon R Complaining about DOOM Atmosphere said:

Doom 64, PSX Doom.

Right , My bad , i didn't get chance to try those .

[Megamur]

DMGUYDZ64 said:

Was classic Doom ever atmospheric .?, do they really call it atmospheric ?

I know it creeped me out a lot when I first played it way back in the mid-90's. And if nothing else, I know it was voted as "Scariest SNES Game" in an old GamePro issue, I think. :)

[VGamingJunkie]

I think the "atmospheric" quality of Doom mostly came from the fact it had differing levels of brightness so that you could have creepily dark levels. This was a huge leap from Wolfenstein 3D that had everything universally lit. Certainly, someone who wasn't used to it may find the lights going out in E1M3 to be a bit shocking. We look back on it now and think it's nothing but, back then, that was considered a revolutionary feat. It also helped that ID included blinking/pulsating lights to set the mood. The music also occasionally set up the atmosphere. E1M5, E1M7, and especially E1M8 had very atmospheric music in my opinion.

[Tritnew]

MetroidJunkie said:

I think the "atmospheric" quality of Doom mostly came from the fact it had differing levels of brightness so that you could have creepily dark levels. This was a huge leap from Wolfenstein 3D that had everything universally lit. Certainly, someone who wasn't used to it may find the lights going out in E1M3 to be a bit shocking. We look back on it now and think it's nothing but, back then, that was considered a revolutionary feat. It also helped that ID included blinking/pulsating lights to set the mood. The music also occasionally set up the atmosphere. E1M5, E1M7, and especially E1M8 had very atmospheric music in my opinion.

Yeah, but PSX DOOM and DOOM 64 did It completely perfect with atmosphere. It totally made DOOM a completely different game, I do prefer the rocking tunes and PC version, but I just love the spookiness and feeling of hopelessness and lonelyness that those versions provided that It brought fear Into me. I just hope the new DOOM can bring that feeling while keeping the epicness the PC version had.

[Tritnew]

MetroidJunkie said:

I think the "atmospheric" quality of Doom mostly came from the fact it had differing levels of brightness so that you could have creepily dark levels. This was a huge leap from Wolfenstein 3D that had everything universally lit. Certainly, someone who wasn't used to it may find the lights going out in E1M3 to be a bit shocking. We look back on it now and think it's nothing but, back then, that was considered a revolutionary feat. It also helped that ID included blinking/pulsating lights to set the mood. The music also occasionally set up the atmosphere. E1M5, E1M7, and especially E1M8 had very atmospheric music in my opinion.

Yeah, but PSX DOOM and DOOM 64 did It completely perfect with atmosphere. It totally made DOOM a completely different game, I do prefer the rocking tunes and PC version, but I just love the spookiness and feeling of hopelessness and lonelyness that those versions provided that It brought fear Into me. I just hope the new DOOM can bring that feeling while keeping the epicness the PC version had.

[Koko Ricky]

I don't play a lot of games, but I have never played a game that has had such a profound affect on my emotional state like the PSX and N64 Dooms. They pushed Doom into a direction I feel was entirely appropriate for the series.

[Tritnew]

GoatLord said:

I don't play a lot of games, but I have never played a game that has had such a profound affect on my emotional state like the PSX and N64 Dooms. They pushed Doom into a direction I feel was entirely appropriate for the series.

Yeah, It gives off a Evil Dead 1 vibe Instead of a Evil Dead 2 one, It's perfect for the series. I think It has even more of a scare factor than DOOM 3 had, even without the teleporting and shit.