*** The "ask a miscellaneous editing question" thread ***

[jaeden]

Just now, jo2ukegappy said:

 

Thanks, I just tested it and it was true, in software mode it turned black. I'll update it. Why does it work like that? Do ZDoom based ports have any special definitions that allow for that? 

 

It's not really about the ports themselves, it is about how the hardware renderer renders sky and empty textures (empty textures are simply not rendered there, so whatever is rendered behind is visible, which happen to be the skybox in this case). If you don't have hardware rendering on, then the rendering simply works the same way as in non-ZDoom based ports (so it will do HOMs on 1-sided untextured walls).

[DoomGappy]

3 minutes ago, jaeden said:

 

It's not really about the ports themselves, it is about how the hardware renderer renders sky and empty textures (empty textures are simply not rendered there, so whatever is rendered behind is visible, which happen to be the skybox in this case). If you don't have hardware rendering on, then the rendering simply works the same way as in non-ZDoom based ports (so it will do HOMs on 1-sided untextured walls).

That makes sense. Does this sound like a better version of what I wrote earlier? Or maybe I shouldn't distinguish it by port and instead talk about the differences in hardware and sgoftware rendering mode?
 

Quote

Skybox from missing texture
In ZDoom based ports, if you don’t use a wall texture on the walls, and also use FSky_1 on the ceilings adjacent to it, the ports will use the skybox textures in game to fill those gaps if you are using Hardware rendering mode. In Software rendering mode, they will be filled with a black texture. In the original game and Boom based ports, you have to make an “outer layer” and lower it to the level you want to make a skybox using the Sky hack (link https://doomwiki.org/wiki/Sky_hack). If you don’t, you’ll get a Hall of Mirrors instead. This is good practice to instill, so it is important to remember it.

 

Edited October 16, 2023 by jo2ukegappy

[jaeden]

I would say that the missing middle texture should never be used as skybox (unless you use Line Horizon special there but that is another thing...) no matter what port/renderer is used.

 

Also I get actual HOM in software rendering there - not a black texture.

[Finnisher]

Is there a tutorial on Boom voodoo dolls somewhere? I am just familiarizing myself with them for the first time.

[ViolentBeetle]

21 minutes ago, Finnisher said:

Is there a tutorial on Boom voodoo dolls somewhere? I am just familiarizing myself with them for the first time.

There probably is, but if you understand how walkover lines work, there's not much to explain. It's just another player start scrolling over lines.

[Finnisher]

2 minutes ago, ViolentBeetle said:

There probably is, but if you understand how walkover lines work, there's not much to explain. It's just another player start scrolling over lines.

 

Got it, that's what I thought.

[Dheta]

Is it written anywhere the specific time it takes floors/ceilings by certain amounts at the respective speeds? Trying to make specific things lower after a certain amount time with voodoo closets is just a tad tedious when starting out, google and the respective doom wiki's doesn't seem to specify, would save me a probably and probably some other people in the future some time.

[Stabbey]

1 hour ago, Dheta said:

Is it written anywhere the specific time it takes floors/ceilings by certain amounts at the respective speeds? Trying to make specific things lower after a certain amount time with voodoo closets is just a tad tedious when starting out, google and the respective doom wiki's doesn't seem to specify, would save me a probably and probably some other people in the future some time.

 

I actually looked this up once because I was trying to create a timer.

 

The doom engine moves at 35 tics a second, which means that for standard movers, every 35 units of height will take exactly one second to lower. Fast movers move at 4 times the speed, so a Fast mover will move 8.75 units in one second. However, I think through trial and error, I discovered that it's not quite as simple. I think that it's only approximately 35 height units in one second, but not precisely that, which is why it gets out of sync quickly.

 

For a standard mover, here's what I found through trial and error:

 

Time required in seconds - Floor Height

1 - 35

5 - 173

10 - 347

15 - 521

30 - 1042

45 - 1563

60 - 2084 (2146)

120 - 4168 (4292)

180 - 6252 (6488)

240 - 8300 (8684)

300 - 10348 (10880)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2023 by Stabbey

[Dheta]

5 minutes ago, Stabbey said:

 

I actually looked this up once because I was trying to create a timer.

 

The doom engine moves at 35 tics a second, which means that for standard movers, every 35 units of height will take exactly one second to lower. Fast movers move at 4 times the speed, so a Fast mover will move 8.75 units in one second. However, I think through trial and error, I discovered that it's not quite as simple.

 

For a standard mover, here's what I found through trial and error:

 

Time required in seconds - Floor Height

1 - 35

5 - 173

10 - 347

15 - 521

30 - 1042

45 - 1563

60 - 2084 (2146)

120 - 4168 (4292)

180 - 6252 (6488)

240 - 8300 (8684)

300 - 10348 (10880)

Thanks a bunch! 

[Doomy__Doom]

43 minutes ago, Dheta said:

Is it written anywhere the specific time it takes floors/ceilings by certain amounts at the respective speeds?

Boom spec for generalized linedefs lists what slow/normal/fast/turbo for floors/ceilings/doors/crushers should be in units/tic under "notes" for each category: https://soulsphere.org/projects/boomref/index.html#sec13

[Pegleg]

10 hours ago, Finnisher said:

Is there a tutorial on Boom voodoo dolls somewhere? I am just familiarizing myself with them for the first time.

@Fonze wrote a basic tutorial on conveyor belts. 

If you add a Player 1 start to the conveyor belt, and have some walkover triggers for it to cross, then that should be a good start for your foray into the wonderful world of voodoo doll scrolling.

[Finnisher]

8 hours ago, Stabbey said:

 

I actually looked this up once because I was trying to create a timer.

 

The doom engine moves at 35 tics a second, which means that for standard movers, every 35 units of height will take exactly one second to lower. Fast movers move at 4 times the speed, so a Fast mover will move 8.75 units in one second. However, I think through trial and error, I discovered that it's not quite as simple. I think that it's only approximately 35 height units in one second, but not precisely that, which is why it gets out of sync quickly.

 

For a standard mover, here's what I found through trial and error:

 

Time required in seconds - Floor Height

1 - 35

5 - 173

10 - 347

15 - 521

30 - 1042

45 - 1563

60 - 2084 (2146)

120 - 4168 (4292)

180 - 6252 (6488)

240 - 8300 (8684)

300 - 10348 (10880)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Super useful thanks!

 

What are the numbers in parenthesis?

[Gez]

16 hours ago, Dheta said:

Is it written anywhere the specific time it takes floors/ceilings by certain amounts at the respective speeds? Trying to make specific things lower after a certain amount time with voodoo closets is just a tad tedious when starting out, google and the respective doom wiki's doesn't seem to specify, would save me a probably and probably some other people in the future some time.

You can look at this page.

Standard speeds for doors are 16 and 64, so 2 and 8 units per second. For floor movers, they're 8 and 32, so that's 1 and 4 units per second respectively.

 

15 hours ago, Stabbey said:

However, I think through trial and error, I discovered that it's not quite as simple. I think that it's only approximately 35 height units in one second, but not precisely that, which is why it gets out of sync quickly.

It may be a precision issue in the timer code. 35 tics per second means each tic lasts 28.5714285714285714285714285714... milliseconds, repeating that 285714 pattern infinitely. Suppose the timer code rounds that to just 28 milliseconds, and now you have 35.714285714285714285714285714... tics per second (again with an infinitely repeating 285714 pattern), instead of precisely 35 tics per second. If instead your timer rounds up to 29 milliseconds per tic, then you only get 34.482758620689655172413793103448... tics per second, making things take about 1.5% longer than expected.

[Stabbey]

8 hours ago, Finnisher said:

 

Super useful thanks!

 

What are the numbers in parenthesis?

 

One of the sets of numbers is correct, but I don't remember which one, so fiddle with it a bit. I used a 5-minute lowering floor to display a timer in my map "Dead in Five Minutes" (MAP02), so that's how I got my numbers.

 

 

[rita remton]

hi! please, does anyone know of any tools for windows 8.1 to export doom map linedefs layout only to the png file format in high resolution? i have tried using the export selection to image feature in ultimate doom builder (it could only export map with textures, not the linedefs themselves) and the save map image feature in slade (resolution was far too low). thanks in advance.

[Stabbey]

Would viewing the map in "Automap mode," using the Print Screen key and pasting the image into Paint not be enough?

[boris]

You could use the drawmaps.py script that comes with Omgifol. That's what the DoomWiki uses for the map imgaes.

[rita remton]

1 hour ago, Stabbey said:

Would viewing the map in "Automap mode," using the Print Screen key and pasting the image into Paint not be enough?

no, it wouldn't. some maps are too intricate, that the linedefs become a jumbled mess in the png due to the low resolution. i could printscreen section by section of the map, trim each one of the images then combine them all together in gimp like a large jigsaw puzzle, then export as a single png image. still practical for a few maps, but, you get the idea. anyway, thanks for the suggestion :)

 

1 hour ago, boris said:

You could use the drawmaps.py script that comes with Omgifol. That's what the DoomWiki uses for the map imgaes.

yes, i could try that. thanks :)

[Gez]

2 hours ago, rita remton said:

and the save map image feature in slade (resolution was far too low)

You can change the settings for the generated image's size.

[rita remton]

1 hour ago, Gez said:

You can change the settings for the generated image's size.

thanks for the hint! found the "not straightforward" settings in slade at settings > advanced. will put my findings here for any mappers who need to have their map's layout in high-res png.

 

Quote

The values map_image_height and map_image_width correspond to the size of the image. If these values are negative, they will be used to scale the image's size depending on map size (the lower the value, the smaller). With -1, one map unit will be represented by one pixel.

 

The value map_image_thickness correspond to the thickness of the drawn lines.

quoted from [here].

 

thanks again! :)

#export #highres #highresolution #image #layout #map #printmap #png #print

[Finnisher]

How come this famous invisible wall in TNT map 9 does not bug out in software rendering mode and cause a HOM effect?

 

 

 

 

asking because I've tried making invisible walls in a similar fashion but they do cause the HOM bug.

 

What's the trick to having a working invisible wall in a vanilla map?

[ViolentBeetle]

31 minutes ago, Finnisher said:

What's the trick to having a working invisible wall in a vanilla map? 

You must not have sector height to be zero. If there's at least 1 units of height between floor and ceiling, the geometry behind it will not be culled and the space behind it will drawn. Zero height will cause hall of mirror. The flat will also bleed over the sides if you can actually see the flat, so make sure your eye level is never high enough. You can briefly see the problem as the sector lowers.

 

Self-referencing sectors is a more advanced technique you can look up, but it's inconvenient to use.

[LoatharMDPhD]

So in what order should a UMAPINFO lump be placed in a pwad? i played around with the syntax last night and kept getting errors. any advice that isn't go to the doomwiki page on it or steal someone else's lump and rewrite it to serve myself...??

 

Spoiler

map map01

{

levelname = What Fresh Hell"

next = map02

}

map map02
{
levelname = "Container Area"
next = map03
}

 

map map03
{

levelname = "Transfer Station"
next = map04
}

map map04
{

levelname = "Former Human Resources"
next = map05
}

 

map map05
{levelname = "Assholes Inc."
next = map06
}

map map07
{
levelname = "So I Came Out Blastin'"
next = map08
}

 

map map08
{
levelname = "E Pluribus Unum"
next = map09
}

 

map map09
{
levelname = "Tearing Reality"
next = map10
}

map map10
{
levelname = "Sanctum Santorum"
next = map11
}

map map11
{
levelname = "Down In The Hole"
next = map21
nextsecret map31
}

 

map map21
{
levelname = "I Got No Dick But I Like To Bone"
next = map25
}

 

map map25
{
levelname = "Digital Charnel House"
endgame = true
}

 

map map31
{
levelname = "Evil Incarnate"
next = map21
nextsecret = map32
}

 

map map32
{
levelname = "The Ultimate Challenge/Conquest"
next = map21
}

 

this right or do  i need to add more perimeters? are things case sensitive? do i need to indent?

 

Also I'm allowed to upload a wad to idgames with 3rd party mp3's provided they are under the creative commons license for noncommercial redistribution... right? right?

Edited November 17, 2023 by LoatharMDPhD

[ViolentBeetle]

3 minutes ago, LoatharMDPhD said:

this right or do  i need to add more perimeters? are things case sensitive?

You can probably get by on default values here and not have next at all, but if you do, I think it needs to be in quotation marks as well.

[LoatharMDPhD]

1 minute ago, ViolentBeetle said:

You can probably get by on default values here and not have next at all, but if you do, I think it needs to be in quotation marks as well.

ex:

map MAP11

{

levelname = "Down in the Hole"

next = "MAP12"

nextsecret = "MAP31"

}

 

is that the king's english?

[ViolentBeetle]

Just now, LoatharMDPhD said:

ex:

map MAP11

{

levelname = "Down in the Hole"

next = "MAP12"

nextsecret = "MAP31"

}

 

is that the king's english?

This looks like it would work.

[LoatharMDPhD]

// thanks beetle! she works like a hot damn. my final question for today is, should i use endcast = true or endgame = true for a Boom or GZDOOM port with DOOM2.IWAD <1.9 ?

 

[DoomGappy]

55 minutes ago, LoatharMDPhD said:

So in what order should a UMAPINFO lump be placed in a pwad? i played around with the syntax last night and kept getting errors. any advice that isn't go to the doomwiki page on it or steal someone else's lump and rewrite it to serve myself...??

IMO, using JadingTsunami's UMAPINFO Designer is a good way to learn if you generate your UMAPINFO with it and then analyze the output in SLADE. 

[LoatharMDPhD]

1 minute ago, DoomGappy said:

IMO, using JadingTsunami's UMAPINFO Designer is a good way to learn if you generate your UMAPINFO with it and then analyze the output in SLADE. 

love to use it... but i'm old fashioned, stubborn, resilient, and a visionary old coot... no access to a windows instillation yet and im a scrub at compiling C or running python, so i'm going full manual mode and learning the syntax. tried last night and failed, now thanks to beetle, i got her running.

[DoomGappy]

1 minute ago, LoatharMDPhD said:

love to use it... but i'm old fashioned, stubborn, resilient, and a visionary old coot... no access to a windows instillation yet and im a scrub at compiling C or running python, so i'm going full manual mode and learning the syntax. tried last night and failed, now thanks to beetle, i got her running.

Oh, man, forgot about that detail. Oh, well, it's there for others. We'll become the masters of UMAPINFO... eventually.