Simple 3D in Doom

[Soundblock]

Questions about Doom Builder IV. I mean Doom Builder. Jesus.

Is it possible to change the splash-screen featuring the oiled-up pinky that is looking at a light bulb in the beginning? Its a demeaning and ugly evolutionary suggestion to one of my favorite creatures. Looks like it came out of a Portal gun. The artist who made it will have to forgive me, he/she surely has some skill that's probably better shown off elsewhere.

Well, I don't know why I'm excusing myself, but I'm co-blaming forces of habit. Its not like I've been all over the GZ features, dying to get into them. I've been perfectly happy making limit-removed Doom maps, which Doom Builder 2 does elegantly. Switch to GZDB and new reams of info swarm about instantly, the old camera's QWE is gone, etc. Things that easily eat up an editing session or two go into figuring out and get the new hang of. Most of the time when I think of Doom Building (well, nearly all of it) I just want to jump in there and make some geometry.

EDIT: langvitch

[Kappes Buur]

Soundblock said:

Is it possible to change the splash-screen featuring the oiled-up pinky that is looking at a light bulb in the beginning?

Of course it's possible to change. However, since the image is embedded in the program, the change has be affected in the source code.

Soundblock said:

I've been perfectly happy making limit-removed Doom maps, which Doom Builder 2 does elegantly.

I do not believe that somebody is standing behind you holding a gun to your head and forcing you to use GZDB.

Soundblock said:

Switch to GZDB and new reams of info swarm about instantly, the old camera's QWE is gone, etc.

LOL.
GZDB indeed has a wealth of new functionality. To get familiar with all the new or changed stuff there is a learning curve involved, which means that some time has to be invested in the process of using it properly.

Again, it you do not want to learn the differences, then do not use GZDB.

[Linguica]

Kappes Buur said:

I don't see anybody saying that the name
Doombuilder should be changed to Hexenbuilder or Hereticbuilder or Whateverbuilder because they
want to map for Hexen or Heretic or Zandronum.

This argument is literally the opposite of what people are saying. No, people are not arguing that we rename it Hereticbuilder to specify that it's for Heretic editing. However, we are arguing that GZDoombuilder should change its name, PRECISELY BECAUSE people think it specifies that it is for GZDoom editing.

Kappes Buur said:

Or is there some psychological obstacle to the name GZDoom, which makes vanilla mappers go
into conniptions at the thought of advanced features?

Again, I'm not sure what you are trying to argue here. The audience for any Doom level editor is very small, all things considered. If a level editor's name actually does subliminally make a sizable portion of those people not want to use it, surely that is an excellent reason - possibly the best reason - to change the name. After all, like you say, it's just a name.

[Kappes Buur]

Linguica said:

However, we are arguing that GZDoombuilder should change its name, PRECISELY BECAUSE people think it specifies that it is for GZDoom editing.

Personally I really don't care what a program is called. If I find it useful then I will use it.
Obviously your attitude is different from mine.

To belabour the point any further is useless.
Any requests to rename GZDoom Builder should be addressed to MaxED directly.

[edit]
On a different tack, how did you get the differently coloured background in the quote?

[gemini09]

@Soundblock how about a few beers and a late-night kebab?

I think there's very little reason to switch from DB2 to GZDB if you're not going to use UDMF, because the other formats are already fully supported in DB2 and DB2 is made for that purpose.

I think..

For a name change, on a hungry stomach and lying in bed, I'd suggest.. Doom Builder 3 as already suggested, but it would be nice with an info-bubble on start-up that briefs us in on the format options, so that DB3 can be as easy to use for somebody planning vanilla- or limit-removing mapping as DB1/2, with the GUI trimmed of UDMF-exclusive features, etc.

[Gez]

Kappes Buur said:

On a different tack, how did you get the differently coloured background in the quote?

It's just a feature to make it easier to see when people are replying to you.

gemini09 said:

For a name change, on a hungry stomach and lying in bed, I'd suggest.. Doom Builder 3 as already suggested, but it would be nice with an info-bubble on start-up that briefs us in on the format options, so that DB3 can be as easy to use for somebody planning vanilla- or limit-removing mapping as DB1/2, with the GUI trimmed of UDMF-exclusive features, etc.

Doom Builder 2 was a full rewrite from scratch of Doom Builder. (The original was in Visual Basic after all, while DB2 is in C#.) GZDoom Builder is a fork of DB2, not a full rewrite. Also I think naming a program "Doom Builder 3" ought to be the prerogative of CodeImp.

GZDoom Builder is Doom Builder 2 with better support for GZDoom features, so the name makes sense -- the core is still Doom Builder 2, with all that this implies, including the ability to make vanilla maps. If people think it's DB2 with vanilla taken out, instead of DB2 with GZDoom tacked on, then well it's their loss.

[Kappes Buur]

gemini09 said:

@Soundblock how about a few beers and a late-night kebab?

Excellent idea :) :)

gemini09 said:

...., but it would be nice with an info-bubble on start-up that briefs us in on the format options, ....

Really? Too much beer?

[Kappes Buur]

Gez said:

It's just a feature to make it easier to see when people are replying to you.

I can see that. :)
How is that accomplished?

[scifista42]

It's hardcoded in the forum since recently. The trick is that YOU see posts where YOU are being quoted as highlighted - every user sees all of his own quotes that way.

[Gez]

It's done server-side apparently.

[Soundblock]

Doom Builder Plus (DB+)

Should we start a new thread for throwing around renaming suggestions, and present them to the Doom Builder author?

Oh, and on the "its their loss" policy concerning wad authors that miss out on features that might have enhanced their work: I completely disagree. The Doom Builders are freeware, but they're still products, and more specifically tools for designers & artists to express themselves with. These authors have an audience, here on Doomworld and elsewhere. I'd say its the quality-wad seeking audience that's getting shafted for this doppleganger editor naming.

Oh, and yes kebab and beer! In reverse order please. Just gotta shake this cold first.

[Da Werecat]

Soundblock said:

Is it possible to change the splash-screen featuring the oiled-up pinky that is looking at a light bulb in the beginning? Its a demeaning and ugly evolutionary suggestion to one of my favorite creatures.

It's not even the fact that it's made of plasticine and drenched in oil. It's the fact that its mouth looks like an urinal with teeth.

Certainly a step back from the tasteful caco splash. Its only flaw was that it's a nod to the round item icons that shouldn't really exist.

[riki2321]

Isn't doom 3d already?

Also by that do you mean



?? Just use mousewheel

[scifista42]

riki2321 said:

Isn't doom 3d already?

With the original engine's incapability to make room-over-room structures like multiple floors above each other, and the mapping format technically consisting of a purely 2D map where each sector has an arbitrary Z height property, the Doom engine is *not* classified as fully 3D (like Quake engine is), but rather "2.5D".

[riki2321]

scifista42 said:

With the original engine's incapability to make room-over-room structures like multiple floors above each other, and the mapping format technically consisting of a purely 2D map where each sector having an arbitrary Z height property, the Doom engine is *not* classified as fully 3D (like Quake engine is), but rather "2.5D".

WAIT WHAT!? i saw that thing you said in one TERRY WAD!

[Soundblock]

riki2321 said:

Isn't doom 3d already?

Which Doom, the engine or the marine? The player's movements are 3D. The geometry isn't.

[boris]

Gez said:

The original was in Visual Basic after all, while DB2 is in C#.

Um, actually, only the UI of the original DB was written in Visual Basic, the rest in C++.

[Zed]

I have a little question.

You guys say that GZDoom Builder allows to map in any format, but the only options I have (in Tools-Configuration) are Doom, Boom, Hexen, GZDoom, ZDoom, and Zandronum. I don't have the option for Eternity, Risen3D, Legacy...

Am I missing something?

[Arctangent]

It does, both technically and not. Technically, all you need is Doom, Hexen, and UDMF, and you can map for anything; the editor just won't have the proper information for the specific port, but the map will work perfectly fine. More importantly, however, all that adding additional ports to the list requires is the creating of configurations for that port. If anyone actually bothers mapping for said port, there's likely a config for it out there. Heck, there was even one for SRB2, even if it didn't work too well due to SRB2 relying on the flags field for z-height and DB2-based editors not exposing the numeric flag value.

On another note, I wasn't actually aware Legacy extended mapping in the first place. In fact, I think I've heard it doesn't even support Boom's extensions.

[Doomkid]

Jaxxoon R said:

It just reminds me of all those people that still use XWE.

Literally the only flaw with XWE is the occasional crash, and once you know what triggers them you can avoid them and it becomes a non issue. I far prefer the UI of XWE, perhaps just because of familiarity.

Also another +1 for DB3 becoming the new name. In the future, when and if GZDB is further updated, a rename would serve the program well. I know it's just a name, but from a human psychology perspective these little things go a long way.

Since Zandronum/GZD support Doom Legacy mapping format, it makes sense for that config to be out there somewhere.

A bit OT, but man, I had no idea Codeimp had gone on to do the things he has, really impressed!

Arctangent said:

On another note, I wasn't actually aware Legacy extended mapping in the first place. In fact, I think I've heard it doesn't even support Boom's extensions.

It's kinda half and half. Boom sector actions like superfast lifts, doors and instant-teles work fine, however it has zero support for .BEX stuff. I'm unsure about conveyor belts and such as well, so I'd call it "half implemented" (which is a damn shame.)

[Edward850]

Doomkid said:

Literally the only flaw with XWE is the occasional crash

Except for the part where it eats WADs for any reason and is actually out of spec of the WAD format.
Slade3 isn't suggested just because people think it's better, it's necessary because XWE is actually broken.

[Da Werecat]

SLADE3 is better. But necessary? No. It's perfectly possible to use XWE without losing data.

[scifista42]

Zed said:

I have a little question.

You guys say that GZDoom Builder allows to map in any format, but the only options I have (in Tools-Configuration) are Doom, Boom, Hexen, GZDoom, ZDoom, and Zandronum. I don't have the option for Eternity, Risen3D, Legacy...

Am I missing something?

Indeed you are. Technically speaking, there are only 3 map formats: Doom, Hexen and UDMF. Each specific "configuration" only specifies map format + particular linedef/sector actions and other features that are expected to be functional in the target engine. There are actually custom configs for just about any engine or special gamemode, and if they don't exist yet, they can be made from scratch by anybody. Either way, they can be added among the default configs by the editor user himself, no need to rely on the editor's developer to "add support" for a specific port.

[RestlessRodent]

Arctangent said:

On another note, I wasn't actually aware Legacy extended mapping in the first place. In fact, I think I've heard it doesn't even support Boom's extensions.

Doomkid said:

It's kinda half and half. Boom sector actions like superfast lifts, doors and instant-teles work fine, however it has zero support for .BEX stuff. I'm unsure about conveyor belts and such as well, so I'd call it "half implemented" (which is a damn shame.)

Doom Legacy supports mostly all of the Boom mapping features. There are a few mistakes and errors however because Boom code was brought in rather than being based on Boom. As for data changes, it only supports standard DeHackEd. It does not support MBF dogs. For vanilla features, the way the players are spawned prevents Voodoo dolls from appearing in single player levels (in 1.42).

Doom Legacy also has scripting and 3D floors. Afaik, GZDoom added support for FraggleScript and 3D Floors so it could play Doom Legacy levels.

Doomkid said:

Also another +1 for DB3 becoming the new name. In the future, when and if GZDB is further updated, a rename would serve the program well. I know it's just a name, but from a human psychology perspective these little things go a long way.

And what if CodeImp releases a Doom Builder 3 which is completely different, there will be mass confusion. Doing so would fell like a big "Screw you!" to CodeImp even if he has not appeared in awhile. He should at least be asked first if it is OK by the GZDoom Builder developers. On another note, if GZDoom Builder does get renamed to Doom Builder 3 then it should add configurations for more ports as default rather than only have configurations which are supported by GZDoom.

[VGamingJunkie]

At least multiple sector tags were able to be added to individual sectors in UMDF, should make it easier to stack 3D floors without having to have multiple control sectors for the same heights.

[Kappes Buur]

Doombuilder2 and GZDoom Builder include a Reference Manual which details the process of assembling
configuration files for other ports. This Reference Manual can be accessed through the Help tool.

For example

Spoiler

[Jaxxoon R]

Doomkid said:

In the future, when and if GZDB is further updated,

Dude, it's like updated nearly ever other day. In fact, about a month ago MaxED added an auto-update feature, pretty handy, actually.

And about the map formats, just go to the "Game Configurations" menu and check the boxes you want.