Weapon graphics discussion

[MrFlibble]

I've taken the liberty to start a separate thread in order to not hijack raymoohawk's thread any further.

raymoohawk said:

now i do realize that the rest of the freedoom weapons look different from the DE weapons, but that is because the freedoom sprites are of a lower quality.

I wouldn't say that quality is the main reason. It's just that all weapons by Eriance are drawn in the same style. Scuba Steve's pistol is also hand-drawn, but in a different style. Sodaholic's weapons are digitised photographs etc.

From a theoretical standpoint, it would be logical to use all weapons by Eriance so that the art style would be consistent. However, there's another point:

jute said:

The Freedoom weapons are more distinct from Doom's than the DE weapons, too.

Eriance's weapons are essentially the original Doom weapons redrawn in very high quality. It is my understanding that Freedoom design has always been aiming to be "same but different", that is, to use something original but with the same function as in Doom.

The current SKAG for example may not have the best artistic quality, but it's something original and clearly different from the BFG. The super shotgun, the graphics of which could certainly be improved, is some high-tech thingy, as opposed to the original double-barrelled shotgun.

I would assume that this is the established direction in which Freedoom is going. Don't get me wrong, I like Eriance's weapons, they have great design and high quality. Maybe, if there's already permission to use them, have a separate "add-on" PWAD with these weapons to be used with the main game IWAD?

[BaronOfStuff]

Well in either case, I fucked around and finished a lazy PWAD containing the three weapons that ray suggested be replaced.

[HorrorMovieRei]

I think freedoom's weapon designs are prefect as it is. The sprites just need a little polish. And actually, I have seen many people polish Freedoom's weapons before. Some of them posted here, others posted only on the ZDoom forums. Maybe we should track those down and ask the authors if we could commit them.
About the Eriance sprites, maybe we should commit them too, even if it doesn't end up in the project, since he already gave permision to use them and stuff.
And Soda's sprites should definitely be used. They fit perfectly the "same but different" criteria.

[Death Egg]

Soda's sprites have been my favorite thus far, they look near identical to doom's art style but are still very different. If love to see him tackle all the weapons, especially the awful super shotgun. (The sprites are so bad I honestly avoid using it solely because of looks)

[raymoohawk]

i dont think the current super shotgun is bad, it's just that the eri one is better.

now its true that they are different style, but they can still be edited so that they mesh together better. lets just make sure we dont choose to make the better looking weapons crappy because it would be easier (no doubt some people would suggest that)

about the rocketlauncher, i think it shouldn't be added after all, its too small. does anyone know if fredrick and soda plan to finish theirs?

[jute]

I love the FreeDoom tech-SSG, which is full of character and very distinct from Doom's, and would hate to see it replaced with something so similar to Doom's SSG.

[MrFlibble]

HorrorMovieGuy said:

I think freedoom's weapon designs are prefect as it is. The sprites just need a little polish. And actually, I have seen many people polish Freedoom's weapons before. Some of them posted here, others posted only on the ZDoom forums. Maybe we should track those down and ask the authors if we could commit them.

The ones I know of are:

• fixed frames for the current SKAG by robotdog1 (a.k.a. Flynn Taggart at ZDoom Forums)
  
• tweaked Angle Grinder with widescreen support by robotdog1
  
• alternate SKAG based on the old Freedoom Plasma Rifle by robotdog1
  
• tweaked Polaric Energy Cannon by zrrion the insect (incomplete?)
  
• "cooldown" frame for the Polaric Energy Cannon by Minigunner

BaronOfStuff said:

Okay now everyone shut the fuck up because the BFG is now blue and paletted for all the whiners. The projectile used ingame is Eri's this time around, although the original Freedoom sprites are also in there if anyone wants to see how that looks when lobbed from the gun (albeit they've been re-repaletted from green back to blue).

Someone else can mess with GLDEFS and other required lumps for ports such as Doomsday and EDGE to get all the lights, decals and particles working properly though.

Thank you! As for GLDEFS, robotdog1 took care of this already.

[HorrorMovieRei]

MrFlibble said:

The ones I know of are:

• fixed frames for the current SKAG by robotdog1 (a.k.a. Flynn Taggart at ZDoom Forums)
  
• tweaked Angle Grinder with widescreen support by robotdog1
  
• alternate SKAG based on the old Freedoom Plasma Rifle by robotdog1
  
• tweaked Polaric Energy Cannon by zrrion the insect (incomplete?)
  
• "cooldown" frame for the Polaric Energy Cannon by Minigunner

Yeah, that's most of the ones I remember. There was also a touch-up of the SSG, but I don't remember who made it. IIRC they never finished it anyway, so, whatever.
Also, I think that if we modified Minigunner's cool-down sprite to fit with Zrrion's polished plasma sprite, we would kill two birds with one stone, since the plasma rifle would be polished -and- finally have a proper cool-down animation. That is, ofcourse, unless Zrrion wants to make a cool-down animation for his polished PR himself.
The alternate SKAG is great too. It looks more clean and polished. Only problem is that it doesn't quite feel as massive as the current one.

[raymoohawk]

i already contacted zrrion about editing the cool down frame, he says he will see what he can do

[MrFlibble]

HorrorMovieGuy said:

There was also a touch-up of the SSG, but I don't remember who made it. IIRC they never finished it anyway, so, whatever.

While trying to track down that edit you remember I found this shotgun by CaptainW. I think the concept is quite nice and original, although I guess the sprite could be touched up to fit the style of other weapons more I guess. Perhaps this could work as a double-barreled shotgun with the two barrels positioned vertically (or is that complete nonsense)?

I also like the colour of the gloves on that sprite. I was thinking that maybe the gloves in the game should have a different colour because they are pretty similar to Doom in their current state.

raymoohawk said:

i already contacted zrrion about editing the cool down frame, he says he will see what he can do

Thank you!

As for Eriance's weapons, maybe a permission could be obtained to use the full set of them (e.g. like those included with the female marine sprites) and release them, without the UAC logo and otherwise adapted to Freedoom, as an alternate weapons PWAD the players can choose to use with the main game? I suppose that would remove any objections for the content being too similar to Doom, as this would be a "mod" and not part of the IWAD. It also seems logical to use those assets as the "core" game files that were specifically created for the project.

[MrFlibble]

HorrorMovieGuy said:

There was also a touch-up of the SSG, but I don't remember who made it.

Did you mean this?

raymoohawk said:

my attempt at editing the ssg, i dont really like how it turned out, but oh well

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/raymoohawk/sprites/sfxzwfw.png

The image is no longer available though.

[raymoohawk]

majhost got rid of a lot of my stuff

[Blastfrog]

Why not use imgur?

[raymoohawk]

i do use it now, for drawings and screenshots, for sprites i mostly use sta.sh

[MrFlibble]

Do you still have that SSG sprite?

[raymoohawk]

no, i lost it when majhost went down. it was pretty crappy tho

[raymoohawk]

whoops double post

[frithiof]

I just have one small question: why is the rocket launcher brown when the pickup sprite for it makes it look shiny and chrome?

That being said, I like the updated shotguns, the new "BFG", and the various other updated guns. I honestly wasn't a huge fan of the old SSG, and I dreaded the moments when I had to use it (the way it functioned when reloading just seemed a little too weird to me).

Most of the new weapons, in their current state (as of 19 September, 2015), in my opinion, are better than the original Doom 1/2 weapons. (My only quibble is with the color of the rocket launcher, but aside from that, I love them all. I actually use the FreeDoom IWADs instead of the original Doom IWADs when trying out new maps and mods, because FreeDoom is starting to feel like an updated and modern version of the game, with the only obvious thing to complain about being the unfinished Arch-Vile, which can be extremely noticeable at times.)

[MrFlibble]

frithiof said:

I just have one small question: why is the rocket launcher brown when the pickup sprite for it makes it look shiny and chrome?

It is my understanding that all pickups have already been replaced by Eriance's versions, whereas the in-game sprite of the rocket launcher hasn't been updated. Hopefully Sodaholic and Fredrik will finish the digitized version soon.

[funduke]

The super shotgun appears to be broken. There is space between the weapon and the screen border. I tried latest zdoom and freedoom2 builds.
Greetings
Funduke

[RonLivingston]

Yeah, I tested the latest freedoom version on zandronum and the super shotguns firing frames need alittle redoing

[Blastfrog]

Here's a question: should Freedoomguy wear gloves?

[MrFlibble]

I also wanted to discuss that. In Doom and Doom II, the gloves are consistent with how the player character is portrayed on the cover art/title screen. However, the Freedoom character is portrayed wearing metallic bracers (or are those shackles?) with the infinity symbol and no gloves.

I guess keeping the gloves would be "easy" because most assets already have them. However, no gloves would probably be more consistent with the player character art. Of course, the absence of gloves, and the possible addition of bracers/shackles, would also help differentiate more between the two games.

[Da Werecat]

I see that Freedoom tries to find its own face now. In a way, it's a problem, because it hurts the original goal - to be compatible with the content created for Doom.

[MrFlibble]

I understand your concerns, but certainly the decision on gloves should not affect compatibility in any way. Or did you refer to something else?

[Da Werecat]

I meant clashing styles and various inconsistencies. Something tells me that most of the weapon sprites created for Doom have brown gloves.

[RestlessRodent]

Sodaholic said:

Here's a question: should Freedoomguy wear gloves?

Bright white gloves.

[HorrorMovieRei]

MrFlibble said:

I also wanted to discuss that. In Doom and Doom II, the gloves are consistent with how the player character is portrayed on the cover art/title screen. However, the Freedoom character is portrayed wearing metallic bracers (or are those shackles?) with the infinity symbol and no gloves.

I think keeping it consistent with mods wins over keeping it consistent with the artwork in this case. A lot of gameplay mods that add new weapons use Doom guy's gloved hands, so making Freedoom guy's hands different would clash with those.

GhostlyDeath said:

Bright white gloves.

And encrusted with diamonds, like Michael Jackson's glove.

[MrFlibble]

Right, I forgot about the possible custom weapons in PWADs.

However, are they going to really clash a lot with weapons without gloves? After all, the original game does not use gloves for the close-range weapons, for no apparent reason.

I agree though that this question of gloves is part of an issue that has a much wider scope. Namely, the quest for a separate identity of Freedoom and the objective to ensure maximum compatibility with PWADs indeed seem to go into opposite directions. And personally, I would not like either to be abandoned.

[RestlessRodent]

HorrorMovieGuy said:

And encrusted with diamonds, like Michael Jackson's glove.

No, diamond is a carbon and thus would look really bad. Best to keep it plain white.