The DWmegawad Club plays: Sunlust

[dobu gabu maru]

Getsu Fune said:

I knew it! I knew you had a part in this dobu!

I'm curious about the name too, but I'm more willing to bet it comes from Japan's most adorable feline friend.

MAP10: Our outro to E1 is a vicious map that’s not content with giving you any breathing room or adequate ammo. It spirals about itself like some twisted disease, the perched cyber having access to a myriad of angles as he rains down death from afar. That cyber in conjunction with the AV and my low ammo gave me a ton of grief on the map, and I was actually glad to be trapped in the other arenas since I didn’t have to deal with the two of them toasting my ass. I think that part alone tested my threshold of pain, but I managed to squeeze by it and made up for my blunders by absolutely crushing the finale. Definitely a fitting closer to E1, and I’m curious what evil traps await me next.

As an aside, I didn’t really comment on the visuals for these maps mainly because I can’t think of much to say. They’re definitely pretty—I doubt I’ll come across any map in Sunlust that’s downright ugly—but I tend to be drawn towards longer maps that lean on atmosphere. While these had it to some extent (MAP09 the most IMO), they stand in the sapphire shadow of Swim With the Whales for me, which is still Ribbiks’s unsurpassed masterpiece. They feel like blue fractions of SWtW without the strange drowning feeling… more like untethered temples adrift in nothingness, clad in the same dark tones but without any reason for the bleakness. And to some extent it’s not really a fair comparison as both Danne and Ribbiks set about making 30 different maps here, and it would’ve been a nightmare to sit down and work on a minisode with the same attention SWtW was given. Nevertheless, I am yearning to find another map that lures me in as sweetly as MAP07 did.

Gameplay remains stellar at least, which is arguably most important!

[scifista42]

MAP07 - "Total Enclosure"

Disappointing. Empty and easy on HNTR, and the architecture was somehow... Too artificially abstract, like an art style that's not up to my taste - I've felt the same thing when playing Swim With The Whales without monsters, also late Stardate 20X6 maps and some other ones by Ribbiks. What also annoyed me was how easily I could reach the exit, where I've got the automap as an incentive to go back to find secrets. I've said to myself: "OK, I will take the opportunity, it might be fun." It wasn't. At least not as much as I've expected and wanted. It just felt... Lifeless. The "sterile" music might play a role in that, the architecture too, the lack of worthy opposition too. Anyway, I've found all secrets but one, as well as some walrus picture, but I couldn't enter the arena in the outdoor yard and missed all the monsters that would presumably await me in there. What I've actually discovered was not worth discovering, and all secrets were just hidden small switches, which bored me.

[Ribbiks]

dobu gabu maru said:

I'm curious about the name too, but I'm more willing to bet it comes from Japan's most adorable feline friend.

correct :D

random map history:

m08: as demonologist mentioned, this was a map I was planning to submit to the doomworld-megaproject-or-whatever, but instead spruced up a bit and included here. it's original form was uglier and harder. it's pretty much a D-D worship map, though I figured that was obvious (the opening pillar configuration, for example, was structurally inspired by the first room in grime). might be my favorite map in E1.

m10: this map was originally titled "sapphire" and was meant to be submitted along with another map called "onyx" to that mayhem community project where you were only allowed to use two monsters. the original map was a swtw-light rocky affair consisting of entirely PEs and mancubi. It was scrapped after I fell out of love with the concept. Some time later, the key buildings and final area were added, gameplay revamped. the age sort of shows, it's among my uglier contributions to the set.

[AD_79]

Getting back into it.

MAP05: Gear Up

One hell of a start! Much different than the previous maps in terms of visuals, and I'd say in design as well. I like the gimmick to this map with all the armour bonus pillars, it really makes the map non-linear and yet set-piece-y. Don't like that you can essentially break some of the early pillar traps just by getting to them pacifist-style. Bit of a step up in difficulty, though I still managed to get through on UV with minimal issues.

MAP06: Neo Gerouru

Fantastic little outing from Ribbiks, filled to the brim with his usual claustrophobia-fueled gameplay. It keeps the dark brown tech theme but ditches the reds for a lovely green and orange mix. I managed to skip an encounter somewhere, the bit with the barons on pillars. I triggered the instant floor lower, then SR50'd over the gap, hit the switch and ran back across. Fun map though! Was easier than the previous one but that's okay, heh. Made it through on UV.

I love that exit room, btw.

MAP07: Total Enclosure

Love that text screen as well. And the start of this map with the SSG! Surprising step up in difficulty, I actually had to drop down to HMP here. Disagree with scifista about the design, I'm a big fan of it. Looks like I missed two thirds of the monsters!

MAP08: Oneira

Shifting colour schemes yet again to black and blue. Not too much to say, really, it's a Ribbiks map and it's tight as all hell, That blue key room is the stuff of absolute nightmares, that's where my UV attempt ended. Wasn't too bad on HMP though (I had a lot more plasma there). I was actually a little disappointed by the final encounter, it seemed too easy to bypass.

[Steve D]

dobu gabu maru said:

I feel like D&R are kinda "damned if you do, damned if you don't" with HNTR, since they have to be accommodating to the squeamish but at the same time provide at least some challenge. I personally prefer them going softer on players for those skill levels, just because the maps are so wonderfully designed that it'd be a shame to gate them by difficulty even on the lowest setting.

It's the eternal debate. I suppose I prefer the "UV Lite" approach which I achieve with my Power of Threes strategy, i.e., 3 Revvies on UV, 2 on HMP and 1 on HNTR, for a given trap, with no changes in health/ammo. There's enough HMP players around, including some who've tested my maps, to convince me that the system works. HNTR players are both rare, and even more rare are HNTR players who'll playtest HNTR in your maps. They're worth their weight in platinum! Unless you can get an HNTR playtest by an actual HNTR player, how can you know if that setting works properly? I have never had an HNTR playtester for longer than the start of one map. So in that sense, I guess I'm not too worried. It's sort of like, why try to please players who basically don't exist, but whose imagined needs require a ton more work?

Then again, UV, HMP and HNTR have no independent, objective meaning. UV in SWTW is nothing like UV in BTSX E1. I expected E1 of Sunlust to be significantly tougher on HNTR than UV of BTSX E1. It didn't turn out that way. Poor scifista42 really went wrong with HNTR continuous. After Map02, the challenge level must have dropped a lot. At this point, I can see that I'd have been better off with HMP continuous. My bad.

Since I missed the beta after the original Map04, I guess my question is whether they had real HNTR playtesters who convinced them to go this soft?

[purist]

I use Dylan to playtest HNTR to make my project kid friendly!

[scifista42]

MAP08 - "Oneira"

Now this was a lot more palatable for me than MAP07 was. The Cyberdemon encounter was quite a good beginner's intro to toughness, IMO. Good compact layout, good visuals, appropriate combat. Bug: An Archvile who teleported on top of a pillar got stuck.

[baja blast rd.]

SteveD said:

It's the eternal debate. I suppose I prefer the "UV Lite" approach which I achieve with my Power of Threes strategy, i.e., 3 Revvies on UV, 2 on HMP and 1 on HNTR, for a given trap, with no changes in health/ammo. There's enough HMP players around, including some who've tested my maps, to convince me that the system works. HNTR players are both rare, and even more rare are HNTR players who'll playtest HNTR in your maps. They're worth their weight in platinum! Unless you can get an HNTR playtest by an actual HNTR player, how can you know if that setting works properly? I have never had an HNTR playtester for longer than the start of one map. So in that sense, I guess I'm not too worried. It's sort of like, why try to please players who basically don't exist, but whose imagined needs require a ton more work?

I have a thing for making monster count on HNTR not that much lower (if at all) than monster count on UV; so the default method of toning UV down for HNTR and HMP ends up being changing monster composition and being more generous with resources. One benefit of this is that HNTR and HMP end up being even more distinct experiences, not just "UV with fewer monsters and a shorter runtime". Definitely helps replay value.

It's possible that -- where keeping HNTR and HMP "true" to UV is concerned -- resource generosity should be the de facto way of making lower difficulties easier, with the exception of setups that the targeted HNTR and HMP audience will just not beat or have fun playing even with a shitload of health and ammo. (Example of the latter: I've loaded some superhard maps on UV in ZDoom just so I could start with 5000% health and ended up getting cornered by hordes and tediously losing like 2000% health in one encounter while my screen redded out. There are just some ultrahard setups that just won't be fun for me even if the level designer decided to shit out megaspheres everywhere for the benefit of lower difficulty players.)

But I like changing monster composition, primarily for its freshness value; I'm of the philosophical leaning that HNTR and HMP can actually be SUPERIOR to UV as an overall experience, and that UV doesn't have to be the "true" experience. It's sort of like fiction -- the author's interpretation isn't privileged. The mapper's vision isn't privileged even if s/he and the playtesters spend 90% of their time on UV. As an aside, the resultant monster chimeras can look kind of cool in DB's 3D mode -- a HNTR HK and a HMP baron and a UV archy superimposed on the same map coordinate is quite the sight to behold.

[Steve D]

purist said:

I use Dylan to playtest HNTR to make my project kid friendly!

I officially envy your built-in advantage. :)

[gaspe]

MAP11 - Cave Culture

Kills: 90% | Items: 66% | Secrets: 66%

Change of theme from the black/blue levels as we adventure in this episode. The brown and green with an extensive use of grass and vines makes up a nice setting. The lightning is really well done and the electric lights with bricks and rocks create a really interesting vibe to the map. On pistol start until we get the SSG the gameplay is more slow due to the many mid tier monsters. But it was good, as in the YK area the things get pretty hectic, with a little maze-like section. The monsters there were used really well. I also found the secret soulsphere and RL which I didn't found the first time. The last area is very nice, but I preferred to exit the level as soon as the bars lowered rather than kill all the guys there.

[Steve D]

rdwpa said:

But I like changing monster composition, primarily for its freshness value; I'm of the philosophical leaning that HNTR and HMP can actually be SUPERIOR to UV as an overall experience, and that UV doesn't have to be the "true" experience. It's sort of like fiction -- the author's interpretation isn't privileged. The mapper's vision isn't privileged even if s/he and the playtesters spend 90% of their time on UV. As an aside, the resultant monster chimeras can look kind of cool in DB's 3D mode -- a HNTR HK and a HMP baron and a UV archy superimposed on the same map coordinate is quite the sight to behold.

That's the other major approach -- tone down the critters by type vs keeping the heavy hitters but in smaller doses. That can keep the action fairly hectic for players who are either less skilled or more relaxing for skilled players who want to appreciate the mood. It's interesting that you mention fiction, since that really is a communication between writer and reader, and every reader brings their own poetry to a story.

Simply reducing monster count doesn't always give a similar, albeit smaller, experience, either. In my Heat Miser map for Mayhem 2048, the map was a gimmick based on a flood of 144 Cacos into that small space, while the player was already under fire from turret Cybers. You need to use infighting so the Cybs and Cacos kill each other to the greatest extent possible. But the whole thing was designed for UV. It didn't work as well on HMP with only 96 Cacos, and on HNTR, with only 48 Cacos, it became a tedious map because the player spends more time killing Cybs, even though their numbers are also reduced, because the Cybs kill the Cacos more effectively at the reduced numbers. Thus, HNTR was probably the least fun and was actually a bit more difficult than HMP. Maybe I should have used Mancs instead. :D

I think I'll stick with UV-lite, though, simply because it's less work.

[baja blast rd.]

Map 09: Saquasohuh (UV)

The prevalent theme in "Saquasohuh" appears to be camping and running away like a bitch. The true lock-ins aren't particularly lethal, and the heavy-hitting encounters tend to have a safe zone that you can quickly carve out in order to avoid getting blasted into mush. And most of the ones that don't can be quickly escaped from, e.g. the optional BFG area with the SLIPPY FLOOR and the cybers and the nobles, where door duty falls on a puny revenant that is aligned perfectly to piss off the cyber early on in the encounter. Even the last encounter in the chode can be mostly "evaded" as long as you save up enough cells to pulverize the noble mob, the exit gag notwithstanding. Who cares about maxing anyway! :p The layout is constructed fluidly, however, so that many of the monsters you run past, particularly those at the start, will end up jealously pathing their way back to you -- "You think those OTHER encounters are more fun than US???" -- which can drain your ammo supply early on until you can hoard reserves. I thought that was pretty cool. And if you can't manage to secure safety in the big encounters, well, enjoy the quick red-outs. I'm probably going to end up dropping to HMP soon.

[baja blast rd.]

SteveD said:

That's the other major approach -- tone down the critters by type vs keeping the heavy hitters but in smaller doses. That can keep the action fairly hectic for players who are either less skilled or more relaxing for skilled players who want to appreciate the mood. It's interesting that you mention fiction, since that really is a communication between writer and reader, and every reader brings their own poetry to a story.

Simply reducing monster count doesn't always give a similar, albeit smaller, experience, either. In my Heat Miser map for Mayhem 2048, the map was a gimmick based on a flood of 144 Cacos into that small space, while the player was already under fire from turret Cybers. You need to use infighting so the Cybs and Cacos kill each other to the greatest extent possible. But the whole thing was designed for UV. It didn't work as well on HMP with only 96 Cacos, and on HNTR, with only 48 Cacos, it became a tedious map because the player spends more time killing Cybs, even though their numbers are also reduced, because the Cybs kill the Cacos more effectively at the reduced numbers. Thus, HNTR was probably the least fun and was actually a bit more difficult than HMP. Maybe I should have used Mancs instead. :D

I think I'll stick with UV-lite, though, simply because it's less work.

Yeah that approach runs into trouble in infight-heavy setups, or when the mass of monsters acts as a useful meatshield. Work is fun. :)

[SoundofDoomDoors]

MAP09 is one I also have prior experience with on UV. At least here I remember someone that wasn't me getting to the exit! The cybie at the beginning is much more helpful in terms of killing your enemies on UV than he is on HMP. I only got grazed by him once for a handful of health. He was just fodder for the crusher I triggered somehow after that. On the other hand, the one guarding the BFG was really helpful. I don't think I fired a shot at the other enemies that spawned in with him. The cyberdemon killed them all.

Moving on from the goatheads, I like how there's a lot of freedom in what order you can go after the red and yellow keys. You can even choose whether or not you want to fight for the non-secret BFG after you get them. I did and had a really good time, as mentioned above. Optional keys like the blue one in this level are something I rarely see, but think should be used more. Good job with that.
91% Kills
66% Secrets
0 Deaths on HMP (16 total)
---
MAP10 has my favorite ending in the wad so far. I can't believe I lived through that after I killed myself with a rocket in an easier part of the map. My tactic for clearing it was an adaption of what I've seen people do to get through the fight after the blue key on MAP08. I tapped the imps on the shoulder, got them to hit the cybies to thin out their numbers, then bumrushed the cybies with the BFG when I got tired of waiting for the imps to die. It worked, even though I got hit in the face twice and finished with 28 HP/33 armor. That's what the megasphere's for!

Thoughts on the earlier parts: I was wondering why the red key was tied to telefragging a mancubus I had killed very early in the map. Now I know he's a cybie on UV, making it almost essential from a pistol start. Also explained in the thread was the way some imps were mixed in with the skeletons guarding the blue key here. They're ALL skeletons on UV. The pillars in MAP09 have a similar setup. Good choices for easing up on the difficulty.
98% Kills
33% Secrets
1 Death on HMP (17 total)

EDIT: I didn't note the difficulty for MAP10. Fixed.

[baja blast rd.]

Map 10: Maru (HMP)

Dropping down because I just want to relax and stuff. The dropoff in difficulty was quite noticeable, as I didn't notice any sharp anal pain developing during my playthrough. I'm still unsure of my decision, as most encounters were surprisingly tame on HMP, but I think I'll stick with it, because I'm not good at Doom and would rather maximize my fun than wave my wang around shouting "I PLAY HARD MAPSETS ON UV WOOT".

Speaking of "good at Doom", rockets and pain elementals don't mix, which is of course why the BFG encounter trolls those of us who aren't stingy cell consumers by inviting us to blow ourselves up on a kamikaze lost soul. I can only surmise that the cluster of sergeants is made of chaingunners on UV, because that's how it works. Checked in DB, and it is. I didn't, however, expect the pillar manc to be a cyber on UV. That might have been somewhat helpful to have around because ammo got tight early on -- but with my habit of running into the nose of stray rockets in the oddest places, maybe not. Since I'm a coward, I got through the three-cyber encounter in the most tedious fashion imaginable, with no cells in my possession while all cybers were alive and somewhat healthy, after getting blasted to sub-50 health poking around for some kind of crusher-triggering switch. I could have got closer while I was taking the last of my BFG shots, butnah. Anyway, those cybers (eventually) felt the wrath of my hiding behind the column and peeking out to fire a single rocket and then scurrying back ad infinitum.

Pretty map. It takes an abstract angle by layering pipewall over curves in the middle of some dark castly place. The blue plasma brick, sort of like the black gothic material, is a texture I never would have thought to use myself, but it actually looks good. The barrel encounter was the highlight for me; I think I'll recreate that fight in a map that contains nothing else just so I can play it over and over again.

[Demonologist]

11: Cave Culture
So, now we're in a lot more earthly setting, with all those zimmer caverns and stuff. Not the most original theme, sure, but this episode is probably my favorite in the whole set, anyway. It's good-looking and really well-made, and the gameplay is something that can be done with a bit of relaxation which is a welcome thing after some of the more hectic scenarios of the previous maps, as well as before all the storms that will follow shortly after.
Quite a change of pace indeed, this map starts off rather slow. Even with a secret rocket launcher you'll still have to rely on shells, bullets and some infighting magic to walk out of the beginning series of fights unscathed. Then, after picking up the yellow key, opening the door locked with it and hearing it close behind your back, with multiple archviles getting teleported all around, you suddenly realise that now you're in for the real deal. That may feel like a huge jump in difficulty unless you know the map, otherwise it's perfectly possible to camp all those bastards and then proceed further. Not to say it's not an increase in difficulty in general, mind you, fights from there on are surely more tricky and more dangerous if you decide to rush into them without knowing what to do.
Loving the final encounter, finally a more spacious scenario after corridor crawl of sorts, and more in the vein of traditional slaughtery stuff I like. Cool.
Not a map to praise, but definitely not the one to curse, either. Cute cavernous setting with moody atmosphere and notable jump in difficulty somewhere around the middle. The next couple of maps is stronger than this one, but Cave Culture isn't bad, anyway.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP11: Cave Culture

A dramatic aesthetic shift for this level; gone are the vibrant contrast colours, to be replaced with a maze of natural rock, decrepit stonework, and hanging vines, largely in muted tones of brown and green. The pistol start encourages the player to let infighting do the work in the first, L-shaped combat zone, though replacement weapons (shotgun, chaingun, and eventually the rocket launcher) are provided quickly enough. Overall the gameplay focuses on mobility; presented with a threat, the player is often presented with the ability to escape but not necessarily to retreat, instead piling forward into new and dangerous areas. It's a "soft touch" style of progression management, rather than the strict choreography we've seen in some of the WAD's earlier levels (and will no doubt see before its climax).

I really do like the look of this level, its caves and ruins and muted lighting, and would love to see variations on this particular theme. If this is the introduction to the second episode then I'm very much looking forward to what the next week-and-a-bit may hold.

[Steve D]

Map10 – Maru by Ribbiks - Kills – 97, Items – 84, Secret – 0. End Health – 116, Armor 118. Death Count – 9

Kind of a love/hate thing here. First, for my playstyle, this map was difficult, unlike the previous 2. My playstyle is based on killing monsters my own damned self, so I don't, by nature, look for infight opportunities. This cost me 2 deaths trying for the Plasma Gun at the start. When the Revvie trap opened, I backed up to get shooting range, only to be killed by a Hell Knight teleporting behind me. Next try, I decided to conduct an experiment to see if I could plasma through the HK before the Revvies killed me from behind. That experiment was a failure, so I abandoned the PG and decided to grab some weapons and come back for it. This led to death #3, by Chaingunner, when I went for the CG. Next try was more successful, but then came death #4 and #5, both by PE/Imp/Caco at the SSG battle. Sheesh!

Well, thus chastened, I decided to approach the PG battle differently, and instead of backing up, I grabbed it, charged forward, and found a curved grotto to hide in while the HK and 1 of the Revvies fought. Ah, so that's how you do it! Still not thrilled about that, but at least it worked. Then it was pretty easy for awhile as I kept finding little hidey-holes to camp battles and or provoke infights from. The Archie fight in the lower water area was fun because I did an unusually good job of pain-chancing him with 4 direct SSG blasts in the open after hiding behind a column from his initial assault. The barrel match that followed is one I savescummed through on my first try and easily defeated on my second. With all this finished, I went for the Soulsphere, which was a nice, easy fight, and which also gave me a back door to that Arachnotron/Revvie/Manc area.

One of the things that really bugged me about this map was the Green Armor flanked by 2 Medikits, so that you could not grab the armor without grabbing at least 1 Medikit. I was at 93% health. The Green Armor should have been placed forward of the Medikits, so it could be grabbed independent of them. I'm surprised no one pointed this out in testing. It's such a basic error.

Aside from that, everything was calm until the exit fight. It was in a beautifully accessorized square room, rather like something Demonologist might do. I wish I'd been as clever as SoundofDoomDoors, but instead I pursued one of my stubborn, “Let's do most of this with just the SSG” tactics before I died 4 times in a row and said, “Fuck it, let's haul out the BFG.” What a difference that made! My approach was incorrect, just shooting off the SSG to wake up all the monsters, then dodging around to avoid rockets while accepting fireball hits, but I used the BFG to clear out the Imps before hiding among the pillars, where I SSGed a bunch more. Then I killed the Barons in front of the switches, a very aggravating battle since they were in total darkness except for being silhouetted by the switch lights. By the time I finished all this, I still had 265 cells, so rather than rocket the Cybs from the pillars, as rdwpa did, I decided it was time for Dances With Cyberdemons – 2 on HNTR – so I did some open-field dodging while laying out the BFG shots, and they both fell quickly enough. Yay!

I disagree with Ribbiks on the appearance of this map. I like it better than the preceding techbases. Lots of sexy curves. The Soulsphere grotto with water on the ceiling was very attractive, as was the final room, and the blue pillars in the blue key room looked great. Also, the scrolling blue wall exiting from the barrel fight was very cinematic.

On the whole, this is another map where I could have reduced my death count by not being a stubborn idiot. I'm not exactly in love with it – seeing all those turned-away monsters is beginning to feel stale – but at least it wants my blood. ;)

[mouldy]

MAP11 - "Cave Culture" by Danne

Man this was hardcore. I dunno if its just cos of pistol starting after playing continuous, but this felt like a real difficulty spike. The beginning was fairly brutal, forced into hostile territory in a bid to find resources and not get cornered by revs. That in itself took a bit of luck, but the following battles in the caves were the toughest challenges I've faced so far in the whole wad. First there was a network of tunnels that had me trapped and overwhelmed with limited firepower, after a few attempts I decided to run and gun rather than stand my ground and luckily I chanced on the direct route to the SSG. The next memorable encounter was the archviles in the rocky maze, this was pretty much a lottery for me as the uneven corridors were too awkward to effectively navigate on the fly. So once I managed to do that without getting snagged and incinerated, it was time for the real bastard: the rocket launcher trap. The tunnels suddenly fill with stuff and there is no safe place to stand and fight. Not without running out of ammo anyway. This is far too crowded and claustrophobic to punch your way through with rockets, but the speed at which the space fills with monsters requires it. So after much trial and error I found the precise spot to clear out and defend, and scraped my way through the battle on my hands and knees.

The final fight was a bit of a clusterfuck. When the spiders warped in I was down to 1 health after clearing them out, so figured maybe I should leave them alive and spring the trap, in case they would help me out. Well I guess they kind of did.. I'm not really sure what happened, the whole place filled with all manner of shit with chaingunners raining death upon us, so I hid in the doorway and just kept pumping shells into the crowd as it closed in on me. And as luck would have it just as I was about to get swamped the door behind me opened, thank christ for that.

Tough stuff. Wish I had found that secret soulsphere and rocket launcher sooner. At least now hopefully I will have the upper hand in the next map.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP11 Cave Culture

you know, after a death exit or a pistol start, shouldn't a map like this ease in the player to the next episode, instead of dropping random revenants, hitscanners, and snipecubi?

for lack of better, I would actually do way better in levels like these with projectile enemies abound. Why don't I? it's those hitscanners. you can dance all day anywhere around them and they will still hit 9 times out of 10. yes even lowly zombiemen. really though, it's got a Combat Shock sort of vibe, not surprisingly. I hated that end ambush, it beckons the rocket launcher, but even its underpowered against those hitscanners on the north wall. at least you can go back and get the supplies on their ledge.

[Archvile Hunter]

MAP11 - Cave Culture [https://youtu.be/mBicE3uwGOU]

Kills: 75% | Items: 100% | Secrets: 66% | Time: 7:09 | Attempts: 8

I did not expect to die as much as I did here. I didn't even think this map was that tough to be honest, on my first attempt I even made it all the way to the yellow door without the SSG. On following attempts I kept dying for stupid reasons, but hey, whatever.
This is definitely a more traditional map than the previous ones. Progression is straightforward, with the (sort of) optional SSG to the side. I did feel this map was kinda easy to get through once I understood the traps. Get the SSG and just run away, leave the Arch-Vile and the zombies. Don't pick up the rocket launcher, get it from the secret instead. Ignore the Revenants and Archvile after unlocking the yellow key and just run for the door.
I did like the hide-and-seek game with the three Archies though, I think that was well made. There are problems with the map, like autoaim not working properly with those ridges in the walls. I don't think the map is as pretty as some of the others I played, that does not mean it's ugly though.
In the end, I'm glad to be out of here. I'm not really a big fan of cramped interior spaces.

[dannebubinga]

Map11 was meant to be for combat shock 3. It was much smaller and had a totally different texture scheme before I picked it up for this project. Like I´ve said before, I´m not very good at making "normal" maps so this is what you get. I did my best! Honestly, I always thought map11 was too easy for an E2 starter. Turns out I was wrong then!

Now that you´ve played some of the maps, does anyone understand Kmxexii’s "NORTH" referencing in his review? I´m still clueless hehe.

[Cynical]

I actually thought that, of the half of the wad I played before getting distracted (1-15, 31+32), map 11 was the easiest in the wad.

Of course, I pistol-started everything, and it seems like most of the people who think it's a difficulty spike are playing continuous (and thus having to pistol-start for only the second time in the wad).

SteveD said:

Next try, I decided to conduct an experiment to see if I could plasma through the HK before the Revvies killed me from behind... Well, thus chastened, I decided to approach the PG battle differently, and instead of backing up, I grabbed it, charged forward, and found a curved grotto to hide in while the HK and 1 of the Revvies fought. Ah, so that's how you do it!

Powering through the HK before the Revs kill me is exactly how I do the start; the key is to try to keep the Revs relatively close at your back (this forces them to use their punch instead of their missiles) and quickly strafe back and forth (which will generally cause their punch to miss).

Hiding in the grotto doesn't really work on UV, since there's a Manc there, and it's somewhat reliant on Rev movement (if they move wrong, you'll get cornered and pounded). If you're *really* struggling with the start, you can grab the plasma rifle and nearly instantly vaporize both Revs, but I prefer to save that ammo for the dual Arch-Vile encounter en-route to the Red Key.

[purist]

9

Another string of lock-ins, with the same blue/grey colour theme as MAP09, but set within more natural terrain. The blue and yellow keys are both required, as is the death of the turret cyberdemon overseeing events before you can reach the final showdown. It felt like you had to collect the keys in a set order with the first one involving what was for me the toughest fight in the level.

Hitting a switch will reveal a manc forcing you to move from the safest spot, I quickly fired a couple of rockets at the turret AV, before doubling back and repeating to kill it then taking care of the remaining monsters. The HK's will fight with the manc if you are lucky and I then concentrated on the PE before killed off the wounded remnants in relative safety. I was badly battered after this fight but luckily the rest is not so tough.

The next main fight was quite simply cheesable with revs on raise/lowering platforms that were easy to pick up from a safe angle with the RL at ground level there were a few imps and demons and then a vile and some cacodemons. I spammed rockets at the vile before it could get out of it's hole and this made the cacos simple to handle. Clearing this area not only gave the second key but included a switch to crush the cyb. This is what made me believe this area had to be handled after the previous key.

The final fight was cool but not as hard as it looks and I handled it in 2 attempts. In my first I was spooked by the caco ambush and took enough damage that I did not have enough health left to outlive the carnage. The second time I tried to plasma fry the PE's (and failed, due to too much meat in the way) and when space opened up, ran around the bovine mob to free the cacos. I fired some rockets back at the nobles etc to clear a little space and then ran back around until the cacos had fled the nest. I then ran back again and killed everything from the cove with rockets. When I poked my head out of the cove there was only a PE left snagged on some rock, which I humiliated with the chaingun before exiting.

The first fight had me thinking I was finally going to need to drop the difficulty but I felt comfortable enough with the rest and I enjoyed it overall. The only critisms that come to mind is the uneven difficulty handling of the traps, the lack of gameplay variety compared to previous maps and an uneven distribution of health leaving me really low at some points and overstocked at others. These sound like big issues but none of them massively affected my enjoyment of the level.

[scifista42]

MAP09 - "Saquasohuh"

Good layout and aesthetic. Gameplay-wise (still on HNTR), the start was decent, but the rest was easy, sometimes boring, although generally OK. I've ended up fully stocked up with ammo/health/armor, barring a few single health points. Biggest issue: I've struggled to find the yellow key for a while.

[purist]

10

The final part of the water and grey stone trilogy will be remembered by my mainly by the final fight. The rest, as enjoyable as it was, has not really stuck in the memory banks even now, moments after having beat it.

At the beginning of the map I took a gamble on a health handicap in return for an early PR in the alleyway with a manc and HK on either end and a couple of revs holed up in the bit of cover at the side. I got out of there with less than half my health and no cells and in retrospect no advantage either because I don't remember getting many more cells before the PR was given away for free.

The next fight I got into was with a row of sergeants who were begging to be lined-up and chaingunned plus some Pain Elementals who I seemed to kill with blind luck and the healing properties of the nearby bezerk considering the space seemed too small to be able to manoeuvre around them.

There was also a semi-notable fight with an arachnatron, a couple of podium revs and some wandering mancs. I just ran around until some decent infighting occurred and wandered off somewhere else (killing some sniping imps from over the other side). When I returned the mob had been whittled down to a safe amount to dispatch.

The final fight then. My first tactic was wake everything up, stand at the opposite end of the room to the cybs and let them blast anything whilst I wiped out any imps that wandered too close to me. Once everything had filtered into the main room and got into arguments with the cybs I went into the side areas to restock on plasma, rockets and hit those switches. With pretty much just the cybs left I strafed side to side wearing them down while evading their volleys but I was surprised they hadn't been weakened that much, assumed I did something wrong and started the fight again. This time I tried to keep more stuff alive and get into the hiding places quicker - it didn't make much difference the deadly trio had just too much fire power for the imps and knights so it turned out my first attempt was as good as it was going to get. Taking out the 3 cybs took longer than should have been necessary. 2 would have been sufficient and wouldn't have been such a chore to finish off.

I finished with 2% health having ate a rocket and failed to properly trigger the death exit. I was tempted to IDCLEV11 but since I had a save with just 1 cyb remaining I reloaded and finished legit. Anything else to say about this one? Well I'm glad there is a new theme coming up as the stark contrast style is a bit overbearing for too long - even if I did really like that abstract cube structure at the very end. Also, this map was the first time I was lost for any length of time, the switches here not being quite as obvious to their purpose as previous maps. But it's not exactly STRAIN or even Icarus levels of obscurity. If I had paid more attention to the blocked off paths I'm sure I'd have narrowed it down quickly.

[scifista42]

MAP10 - "Maru"

Seeing the start didn't really impress me after MAP09, because it screamed "more of the same, more of the same" in regards to abstract art style and boring gameplay. It (mostly) proven to be true, but at least the middle part of the layout was nice in a way that I appreciate. Also - finally Pain Elemental goodness! Wait, what did I just say, I hate them... Probably a symptom of my dejection from lack of challenge. The death exit gave me a new hope for once - I never thought I'd say something like that.

[purist]

11

The appearance of this map, with it's vine/tan brick combo and tech lights remind me of Plutonia but the gameplay style is not really so similar. There is a mixture of tight corridor type scrambles and simple open area fights with surprisingly small amounts of dangerous monsters. Difficulty takes a dip and aesthetically it's probably the worst map so far (pale green textures in over bright areas makes most the level look washed out but, as usual there is a spectacular view at the end with the vine covered arcs). While this might make the level a disappointment on paper, it's actually exactly what Sunlust needs at this point as it's largely freeform gameplay is a welcome change to the micro arena style setups in most the other maps.

I start with an enforced pistol start rather than by choice but I didn't notice anything about the start that warrants this in comparison to previous maps so I expect MAP10's death exit is more to emphasis the episode transition than to protect a gameplay principle from being cheesed in continuous play such as a resource management map or a chainsaw/bezerk map.

Most of the level involves winding through a rats nest of corridors with bumpy floors and monsters let out at intervals. The only real danger is when the rev rush occurs as it's difficult to find a safe spot to rocket from without being surrounded. I found both the soulsphere and blue armour secret and they helped not only in terms of extra protection but also the latter provided a good place to funnel revs through.

The big setpiece is again saved for last and starts oddly with just 2 knights and 2 spiders. Not sure why they bothered really, might as well have got stuck straight into the main fight, which opens both sides of the area revealing ledge snipers one one side and a rush of ground based monsters on the other. I started with the ledge firing rockets until I was sure all the chainers were dead then killing enough of the rest at ground level so I could get into the cubby holes for extra health and ammo. From there things thinned out pretty rapidly and I comfortably finished the level from here.

A pretty good map that falls a little below the high standards set so far but wins my approval for being different enough to feel like a breath of fresh air.

[dobu gabu maru]

MAP11: For what is allegedly a “breather” level, it sure doesn’t want me to keep breathing. The shift back to Combat Shock 2’s jungle-caves provide a nice change of scenery, though the difficulty remains more or less steady. The winding green halls to the south were some of the most fun I’ve had in Sunlust, as I really liked having to carve out safe zones between imps, zombiemen, and HKs. The RL battle in contrast was a lot more demanding and less fun for me, but at least the asymmetry of the area made for some fun combat. Finale was really good too—one of the few times I do approve of Danne’s PEs—and overall I had a good time.

[baja blast rd.]

Cynical said:

I actually thought that, of the half of the wad I played before getting distracted (1-15, 31+32), map 11 was the easiest in the wad.

LOOOOOOOOOOOL

Of course 1-3 are easier by a pretty big margin, but I can't even imagine how 11 is easier than 4 and 6.