Only YOU Can Prevent Wad Fraud!

[Job]

I just read another thread talking about people who open up wads in DoomBuilder and search for secrets or plan their speed runs. Frankly, I think that's pretty low.

Is it possible to implement a "Wad Lock" feature in DoomBuilder that prevents a wad file from being opened up with any other editor and to open it in DB, you need a 4-6 digit key? The original author can keep the key to themselves to prevent people cheating on maps by using DB or another editor to preview it. Although I'm not sure it's the best approach, or if it can be implemented, I think the idea has merit.

[Gentlepoke]

Job said:

I just read another thread talking about people who open up wads in DoomBuilder and search for secrets or plan their speed runs. Frankly, I think that's pretty low.

Is it possible to implement a "Wad Lock" feature in DoomBuilder that prevents a wad file from being opened up with any other editor and to open it in DB, you need a 4-6 digit key? The original author can keep the key to themselves to prevent people cheating on maps by using DB or another editor to preview it. Although I'm not sure it's the best approach, or if it can be implemented, I think the idea has merit.

Would it really be worth implementing something like this at the end of the day?

[Memfis]

Oh man, I totally understand you. I also find it a little frustrating that I can't have an element of mystery in my levels since anyone is able to open them in an editor and quickly figure out how everything works. But I doubt that this is doable in a way that would be less annoying than shittiest instances of DRM. And even if you manage it somehow, there is still IDCLIP and so on. So I'm afraid that this is just something that Doom mappers have to deal with. The best we can do is to hope that people "play fair". But forcing our views on them will most definitely look very very ugly I think.

[Linguica]

lol no

[scifista42]

Ports are open source. Editors are open source. WAD format is open source. Map format is open source. Encrypting and decrypting files with open source structure via open source programs, only to enforce a certain way how they should be opened/viewed/manipulated (both in a port and in an editor), is futile. And the open source nature is their advantage that I definitely wouldn't want to go away.

[Gentlepoke]

scifista42 said:

Ports are open source. Editors are open source. WAD format is open source. Map format is open source. Encrypting and decrypting files with open source structure via open source programs, only to force a certain way how they should be opened/viewed, is futile. And the open source nature is their advantage that I definitely wouldn't want to go away.

In addition if somebody wanted to, they could just download the version of Doom Builder (or any other map editing software) before such a measure was put in place. Creating such a "Wad Lock" would thus be a foolhardy venture. Unless Gustavo6046 made it.

[myk]

You should make your wads mainly for the people that will play them they way you think they're intended to be played, allowing anyone else to do whatever they want. It doesn't affect you. Treat the "heretics" as if they didn't exist if you can't appreciate their alternative way of enjoying your wad. At most, write any play expectations and suggestions on the text file or download page.

You mention speed runners going directly to the editor, for instance. Some speed runners only enjoy DOOM as a sport or puzzle and will feel they're waisting their time doing anything except figure out the best route and execute it as fast as they can.

[Tarnsman]

You're right that is an excellent idea, but it doesn't go far enough. We should also make IDDQD crash the game and delete your harddrive and opening the console in Zdoom should open a multi-dimensional portal to the 9th Circle of Hell.

[Gez]

Job said:

Is it possible to implement a "Wad Lock" feature in DoomBuilder that prevents a wad file from being opened up with any other editor and to open it in DB, you need a 4-6 digit key?

Is it possible? Certainly. It would have, however, a tiny little itty bitty side effect, which no doubt is of no great importance: it would also prevent opening the wad file with a source port. But well, what matters is that nobody could cheat, right? Nobody would cheat.

Unless someone finds out how to crack the wad lock. You know what? The safest approach is to not release your wads at all, this way nobody will crack them, and you can be sure that nobody will cheat on them since nobody will play them.

[Gentlepoke]

Tarnsman said:

You're right that is an excellent idea, but it doesn't go far enough. We should also make IDDQD crash the game and delete your harddrive and opening the console in Zdoom should open a multi-dimensional portal to the 9th Circle of Hell.

Like in Heretic?

[Job]

So...the impression I'm getting is that opening a wad before playing is overlooked with a gentleman's nod? I guess if people want to ruin their gameplay experience that's their prerogative, but I'll never understand the reasoning. Anyway, I'm not in favor of regressive solutions for a non-issue from a small percentage of the community. I was just spitballing an idea.

[Gentlepoke]

Job said:

So...the impression I'm getting is that opening a wad before playing is overlooked with a gentleman's nod? I guess if people want to ruin their gameplay experience that's their prerogative, but I'll never understand the reasoning. Anyway, I'm not in favor of regressive solutions for a non-issue from a small percentage of the community. I was just spitballing an idea.

The problem is that such an idea can't really be implemented.

[scifista42]

Job said:

opening a wad before playing is overlooked with a gentleman's nod?

More like that nobody cares at all what you are doing in your free time on your own computer, and nobody should care about it, for that matter.

Job said:

I'll never understand the reasoning.

What about what myk said?

[Archi]

You don't even need any editor to find out secrets.

[Job]

scifista42 said:

What about what myk said?

Fair enough, I can see a case for speed runners, although I admit I don't know much about the rules (if any) for speed running. I had always assumed that the runners loaded up a map, pistol start and all, and did their best to find the exit as quickly as possible. Obviously, they'd have fore-knowledge of the original IWADs and most major releases, but smaller releases was more impromptu.

[Gentlepoke]

Job said:

Fair enough, I can see a case for speed runners, although I admit I don't know much about the rules (if any) for speed running. I had always assumed that the runners loaded up a map, pistol start and all, and did their best to find the exit as quickly as possible. Obviously, they'd have fore-knowledge of the original IWADs and most major releases, but smaller releases was more impromptu.

Speedrunners typically play the same map(s) over and over again until they are able to find the most optimum path to completing a level. The only real gain they would get from opening the map in an editor would simply be in regards to any specific time-based triggers (like in E1M6).

[Job]

Gentlepoke said:

Speedrunners typically play the same map(s) over and over again until they are able to find the most optimum path to completing a level. The only real gain they would get from opening the map in an editor would simply be in regards to any specific time-based triggers (like in E1M6).

That makes sense - thanks for the clarification.

[Memfis]

There is this thing called First Demo Contest, where people indeed compete on a never-before-seen map and the first player to exit wins. And yes, one can cheat by looking in the editor, which is kinda impossible to detect. So I just hope (trust?) people don't do it.

[40oz]

I think I'm gradually getting worse at Doom so I've been meaning to start playing wads on lesser skill levels and if I like the map enough, give it a try on UV, but whenever I'm tempted, I keep getting this itching feeling that I'm wasting my time with a watered down experience. And when I do, the map is sometimes too hard anyway because the mapper didn't implement skill settings at all. I think in a few more years I might start switching on -nomonsters to get a sneak peak of where I'm supposed to go, how and when the traps pop-up, and where all the good guns and ammo are so I can get through it.

The majority of Doom mappers are leaning towards making harder and harder maps so I suppose it's only fair if my skill is on the decline but still want to continue playing Doom.

[scifista42]

^^ In the case above (First Demo Contest), potential cheating is also prevented by the fact that players get the map at a given official time, they're supposed to immediately start playing and recording their demo, and then immediately upload the demo after they finish playing. The time difference between the length of their recorded demo and the time when they uploaded the demo after the official start time, as well as seeing them to stop playing for a while during the demo, indicates the possibility of cheating (studying the map in an editor, or otherwise). It could still be cheated if the player had an "accomplice" (preferably real-life one, physically sitting next to him and using another computer) who would study the map in an editor and guide the player by voice or show him the path on his computer. :)

[purist]

I'd actually like a source port feature that achieves the opposite. An automap overlay option that shows triggers and their sector targets. I wouldn't use it for secrets, just for when I'm lost in a map. It would have been useful in some of the STRAIN maps for instance.

[Memfis]

scifista42 said:

seeing them to stop playing for a while during the demo

ESC pauses recording.

We used to count the time difference between total demo time and upload time and give penalties based on that, but most people (foreigners especially) seemed kinda slow with uploading and we didn't want to be too harsh. Nowadays we usually accept almost everything.

[gaspe]

purist said:

I'd actually like a source port feature that achieves the opposite. An automap overlay option that shows triggers and their sector targets. I wouldn't use it for secrets, just for when I'm lost in a map. It would have been useful in some of the STRAIN maps for instance.

Making puzzles in maps wouldn't have so much sense then. Or at least to attempt to make more unusual progressions.

[mrthejoshmon]

From what I can tell through experience, a certain editor bricks .wad files to unrecoverable corrupted conditions if they are set to read only (*cough* *cough* XWE *cough*)and have done so to me many times.

But to the topic at hand, what is the point of doing that? Why would you want to gimp your wads just so people can't speed run the hell outta that shit? If they wanna take time out of their day to study your map to try and set a record for it then I say go for it, I'm honored that you would do that for some shit I made.

[Marnetmar]

So if I understand correctly the idea here is to screw mappers over so that people will speedrun the game properly?

[Gentlepoke]

Marnetmar said:

So if I understand correctly the idea here is to screw mappers over so that people will speedrun the game properly?

I believe what Job was after was a measure where if the map maker was finished with a mapset, they could throw on the lock and thus prevent any future edits of it. Closed source as opposed to open source, if you get what I mean.

[scifista42]

Memfis said:

ESC pauses recording.

AND stops game time. Which means that the difference between real upload time and the demo's game time would be noticeable, just like if the player started recording later than supposed to, and it wouldn't matter which one of the cases it was, since both would be considered "cheating".

I see what you said afterwards, though.

[j4rio]

That's an easy one, make secrets so complicated that even checking the map in editor would be too confusing.

[RestlessRodent]

You can, however few would want to use such an editor.

Also 4-6 digit keys are pathetically weak and could be cracked in a second. If you want better security you would use PGP. You would also need a source port to play your WAD. A user registers with you with their private PGP key, then you either allow them or disallow them. Your source port uses the private key communication to send map data back and forth. This way, the user never gets the complete WAD and you could garble it up in memory, etc. Eventually though, your WAD will be exposed. To mitigate this issue you will need a dedicated Doom machine (with secure CPU stuff), and this means before people can play your WAD they have to buy your machine to do so. You also have to manufacture the hardware. And depending on the nature of your hardware, it will only do one thing and require an internet connection for: playing your single WAD.

As others have said, if you do not want people to "cheat" with your WAD then do not release it at all.

There are Starcraft maps which have "protection" on them, but the protection is that the map is valid enough for the game to play it yet not enough for the editor (it crashes or just refuses to load it).

[TimeOfDeath]

j4rio said:

That's an easy one, make secrets so complicated that even checking the map in editor would be too confusing.

Yeah, a wad that comes to mind is Necron Fortress.

Job said:

So...the impression I'm getting is that opening a wad before playing is overlooked with a gentleman's nod?

I doubt many people look in an editor before playing. For me, I'll play the map and then look in the editor after to see stuff I missed (or during play if I'm stuck).