DWBS

[Carnevil]

I don't really think that most of the Doom II levels were designed primarily for SP. I mean, take map01 for instance. It's an average SP map, absolutely kick ass DM map (well, before everyone started using a mouse, that is). I think they tried to keep how it would play in DM in mind a lot when they designed the maps, so SP got sacrificed a bit. In Doom, they didn't care about DM at all, which is why like nearly all the levels kick total ass for SP. Of course, Doom II was also pretty rushed, and there's no excuse for the WAY over excessive usage of brown :), so I guess that's part of it. But, my theory is that the big reason Doom II levels suck for SP, is because they tried to make them good DM levels at all. I mean, heh, when's the last time you DM'ed on a Doom level? :)

[prower]

worst level EVER.

[Guest Anonymous User]

I've played Doom and all of the levels never really got to me as annoying or deserving of my hatred, but Doom 2 is another story. When map24 had loaded up and I took just several steps in the Chasm, I was just waiting and hoping for God to have mercy on my soul -- something...anything. Maybe a bolt of lightning killing me and putting me out of my misery or maybe, just maybe my computer could spontaneously combust or something. The music was something you'd consider on the caliber of low-end elevator tunes, and the architecture was uninspired and simply gay. I've tried repeatedly to bring myself to play and enjoy that level, but I had come to the simple conclusion that it was about as enjoyable as bashing in my groin with a 20 lb sledgehammer. The same goes for map29. Good music...nasty level.

[Guest Ransom]

I think if I tried I could work up a healthy dislike for Icon of Sin, but it doesn't seem worth it. I usually just leave it in the cycle and blow the crap out of it again, and it's fairly fun. I remember the first time I heard that backwards recording, and that sound the cubes make when they're flying out. I thought it sounded cool as hell. The ingenuity of the puzzle was nice the first time round. It loses a lot after that first time. I can't think of any level I've played that I've hated. Some impressed me, but even when the level isn't that good, it's still not that bad. To find truly bad stuff, you have to go find the really crappy PWADs. True, the best PWADs are better than the original, but the worst are worse. Much worse.

[Guest Wisp]

I would have to say that I hate all Doom 2 levels. They're absolutely horrific in single player, and even worse in deathmatch. I feel that Id made classics with such levels as e1m1 and e1m4, among many others I can't think of at the moment from Doom; levels that supported both styles with equal ease. It seems that with Doom 2 they tried too hard to make good deathmatch levels, entirely ignoring single player, and instead ended up with levels that were horrid in both. That's just my theory, anyway.

[Guest Anonymous User]

Map 30 is not fun. I found barrels o' fun kind of frusterating at first, but its a pretty good challenge and good idea.

[Guest Anonymous User]

I never played Doom until a year or so after I first played doom. I think the order that I played them in may make some difference in my opinion. When I did play Doom, I liked the levels of episodes I and II best. I did not really like episode IV very much.

[Guest Risen]

Well, I would have to say my least favorite would be the middle levels in DOOM II. The first couple are good, the last couple I'm not too familiar with, and (nearly) all of orignial DOOM was excellent. I think there's some truth to what Carnevil said about DOOM II being more set toward Deathmatch and being less SP friendly. But, to answer your question, I enjoy a good DOOM E1 Deathmatch more than I do any DM in DOOM II. Personally I do not like the 'wide open' approach that many DOOM II levels have. This focuses DM play more on controlling the big guns than strategy and reaction time. For me, there's just no replacement for 4-way rocket battles over the soulsphere in E1M2.

[Guest Anonymous User]

As i recall, E4M4, E4M5, and E4M7 stunk a lot, but as the episode was such a minor concern of id, it doesn't really count, imo. The rest of Doom 1 rocked, and the only bad level in Doom2 was MAP14...the design and architecture looks much more suitable for Quake1. Those who say MAP24 sucks...i don't see why...the Chasm is one of the best D2 levels to me, and i love Cacodemons!!! (BTW, I will keep my promise of seeking revenge on Joe Becht's blood, you bastard.)

[Guest Anonymous User]

As i recall, E4M4, E4M5, and E4M7 stunk a lot, but as the episode was such a minor concern of id, it doesn't really count, imo. The rest of Doom 1 rocked, and the only bad level in Doom2 was MAP14...the design and architecture looks much more suitable for Quake1. Those who say MAP24 sucks...i don't see why...the Chasm is one of the best D2 levels to me, and i love Cacodemons!!! (BTW, I will keep my promise of seeking revenge on Joe Becht's blood, you bastard.)

[Guest ricrob]

All Doom and Doom 2 levels suck-ass. The only good Doom levels are from epiode 1 of Doom. Right Myst? Heh..

[Guest Anonymous User]

Since alotta of ya seem to dislike Map30, I propose a challenge. I'm not a fan of the map either, and the last boss left me unimpressed. My challenge is to make a better level 30 and a better boss using dehacked or DDF. Are you up to making the Most Badass boss ever?

[Hyena]

The thing I really hate about Doom, is the lack of subtlety. Take Doom II, for instance. There's only one new weapon, and where do you find it? Level 2, on a 32 level wad. The biggest weapon, the BFG, you get on Level 9, was it? You meet the Archvile, Mancubus, Chaingun Sergeant, and Revenant early on, and all the levels after 10 are just redundant. Agreed?

[AndrewB]

Hey, DustBunny! Exactly which prison does Map20 remind you of?

[SailorScout]

Simplistic design, horrible texture alignment, and while the music does give the feeling of a quiet abandoned base, the actual level does not. But since the original question was 'which map do you HATE', I'd have to go on the bandwagon and say that MAP30 of Doom2 is frustrating and simplistic compared to what one would expect..

[AndrewB]

Actually the BFG comes on level 8. But yes, I agree completely. Come level 11, you've met your final monster (excluding SS), which is the Arch-Vile. Yes, everything does happen early, but let's remember that Doom2 was a rush job to satisfy the demand for a better DOOM. Since there was more than 1 level maker, none of the levels were connected in any logical way. You see, a monster here, this monster in that level, this weapon goes here, etc, etc... It was bound to happen, and I do think it was one of Doom2's hampers... :-b

[Guest Sir Robin]

Well, how long it took to make MAP30? 5 Minutes? The starting room is nice but after the teleport the level design just plain sucks... If this was made as single level it would get 2 stars from me. It's a good challenge and all, which would save it from 1 star, but the style just sucks major ass. Also, they could have added something to MAP32, it's so plain!

[Guest cocoon]

Well well well... poor doom2, has it ever gone through such a severe bashing from it's fans before? :) Since no one said map13: Downtown, I will. I don't want to be like everyone else and say the Chasm or the Icon of Sin, but if I had to pick the worst one of those two it would definately be map24: the Chasm

[Guest mystican]

werd ric mate....most of doom2 is a bunch of feces .. except map04 that rocks ehehehe ... doom1 totally sucked except e1 ... so .. yea .. werd :)

[Guest Anonymous User]

Map23 and 24 are by far some of the worst maps in the game. 24 has some detail here and there, but overall, extreme boredom. 23 is the most newbie-ish map in the game. A map full of barrels and no decorations whatsoever other than annoying things. 21 is up there too, but at least that map has some dignity and room for gameplay, but its an overall good map. Th best maps in doom2 are maps like 15, 14, 29 and 26 is kinda cool too. Its not often mentioned but it does have a good thick atmosphere. For dm, i don't like map01, imo, its only dmed so much cos its the map with the most weapons. The weaponplacement is totally unfair and the entire map is one long hall with a few alcoves. map07 is a better dm map, but its a bit boring structurewise. Map11 is excellent for alt-death, same goes for map16.

[Guest Anonymous User]

Map23 and 24 are by far some of the worst maps in the game. 24 has some detail here and there, but overall, extreme boredom. 23 is the most newbie-ish map in the game. A map full of barrels and no decorations whatsoever other than annoying things. 21 is up there too, but at least that map has some dignity and room for gameplay, but its an overall good map. Th best maps in doom2 are maps like 15, 14, 29 and 26 is kinda cool too. Its not often mentioned but it does have a good thick atmosphere. For dm, i don't like map01, imo, its only dmed so much cos its the map with the most weapons. The weaponplacement is totally unfair and the entire map is one long hall with a few alcoves. map07 is a better dm map, but its a bit boring structurewise. Map11 is excellent for alt-death, same goes for map16.

[Guest zokum]

Map23 and 24 are by far some of the worst maps in the game. 24 has some detail here and there, but overall, extreme boredom. 23 is the most newbie-ish map in the game. A map full of barrels and no decorations whatsoever other than annoying things. 21 is up there too, but at least that map has some dignity and room for gameplay, but its an overall good map. Th best maps in doom2 are maps like 15, 14, 29 and 26 is kinda cool too. Its not often mentioned but it does have a good thick atmosphere. For dm, i don't like map01, imo, its only dmed so much cos its the map with the most weapons. The weaponplacement is totally unfair and the entire map is one long hall with a few alcoves. map07 is a better dm map, but its a bit boring structurewise. Map11 is excellent for alt-death, same goes for map16.

[Guest zokum]

Map23 and 24 are by far some of the worst maps in the game. 24 has some detail here and there, but overall, extreme boredom. 23 is the most newbie-ish map in the game. A map full of barrels and no decorations whatsoever other than annoying things. 21 is up there too, but at least that map has some dignity and room for gameplay, but its an overall good map. Th best maps in doom2 are maps like 15, 14, 29 and 26 is kinda cool too. Its not often mentioned but it does have a good thick atmosphere. For dm, i don't like map01, imo, its only dmed so much cos its the map with the most weapons. The weaponplacement is totally unfair and the entire map is one long hall with a few alcoves. map07 is a better dm map, but its a bit boring structurewise. Map11 is excellent for alt-death, same goes for map16.

[Guest Anonymous User]

Map23 and 24 are by far some of the worst maps in the game. 24 has some detail here and there, but overall, extreme boredom. 23 is the most newbie-ish map in the game. A map full of barrels and no decorations whatsoever other than annoying things. 21 is up there too, but at least that map has some dignity and room for gameplay, but its an overall good map. Th best maps in doom2 are maps like 15, 14, 29 and 26 is kinda cool too. Its not often mentioned but it does have a good thick atmosphere. For dm, i don't like map01, imo, its only dmed so much cos its the map with the most weapons. The weaponplacement is totally unfair and the entire map is one long hall with a few alcoves. map07 is a better dm map, but its a bit boring structurewise. Map11 is excellent for alt-death, same goes for map16.

[Guest Anonymous User]

Damn, those maps are supposed to imitate cities???!! They're just a bunch of big elevator blocks.

[Guest zokum]

I actually though that when a server didn't authenticate a password, it didn't send the post. It seems like it gives us the error message no matter what. At least me. Fix that shit ling! :)

[Guest Anonymous User]

Well what can i say. There have been plenty of DooM ][ flaming and DooM eulogies. Well The truth is that the DooM levels are cooler. Especially what regards to aesthetics and more important: mood! There are, however, two glaring mistakes. The first mistake is the secret level of the Shores of Hell: (E2M9). After seeing a second tower form out of nothing after dissapearing behind an illusionary firewall (The first illusionary wall besides the one in E1M1 which you hardly notice) and seeing the level's title Fortress of Mystery. You are really expecting something special. Something, er mystical. And then you are released into the heart of a standard slugfest. Featuring a pack of Cacos running amuck on four barons. Theres only two big rooms. And the key idea in the end room is just plain childish. Fortunately you are rescued by the superb moody level Halls of the Damned (E2M6). The next mistake is the end level. After a frantic ride through hell you arrive to the very last level for the ultimate showdown with the first invasion from hell. Your knees a shaking as you walk down the first corridor in DIS (E3M9). You have heard so many stories about the ultimate boss. The dreaded Mastermind of the Mars invasion. And then when you actually get there its done in less than a minute with a minimal hitpoint loss. You whack the two cacos with rockets. Then you snatch the megaarmor and brandish your plasma gun run up to the mastermind and keep the trigger down ignoring all return fire. Your plasma gun will keep it in spasms of pain only allowing it to eat around 25% out of your health. And do i need to say that im playing UV. Dammit the mastermind should come unexpected as grand climax after a big complicated level that could soften you up a bit both psychically physically and ammo-wise. Dammit that ending stinks! As you have said before DooM 2 Map30 isnt much better. Another little thing about the original DooM levels is that the leveldesigners seemingly did not yet know what to do with the caco's flying ability. Used to death in many lategame DooM 2 (and their PWAD clones) the the faraway pillar alcove ambush is not present anywhere. Neither is the interresting altitude battles. and skysiege combats that brighten many huge monsterarmy level up. yours, the Messiah with a Shotgun!

[Guest Anonymous User]

Well what can i say. There have been plenty of DooM ][ flaming and DooM eulogies. Well The truth is that the DooM levels are cooler. Especially what regards to aesthetics and more important: mood! There are, however, two glaring mistakes. The first mistake is the secret level of the Shores of Hell: (E2M9). After seeing a second tower form out of nothing after dissapearing behind an illusionary firewall (The first illusionary wall besides the one in E1M1 which you hardly notice) and seeing the level's title Fortress of Mystery. You are really expecting something special. Something, er mystical. And then you are released into the heart of a standard slugfest. Featuring a pack of Cacos running amuck on four barons. Theres only two big rooms. And the key idea in the end room is just plain childish. Fortunately you are rescued by the superb moody level Halls of the Damned (E2M6). The next mistake is the end level. After a frantic ride through hell you arrive to the very last level for the ultimate showdown with the first invasion from hell. Your knees a shaking as you walk down the first corridor in DIS (E3M9). You have heard so many stories about the ultimate boss. The dreaded Mastermind of the Mars invasion. And then when you actually get there its done in less than a minute with a minimal hitpoint loss. You whack the two cacos with rockets. Then you snatch the megaarmor and brandish your plasma gun run up to the mastermind and keep the trigger down ignoring all return fire. Your plasma gun will keep it in spasms of pain only allowing it to eat around 25% out of your health. And do i need to say that im playing UV. Dammit the mastermind should come unexpected as grand climax after a big complicated level that could soften you up a bit both psychically physically and ammo-wise. Dammit that ending stinks! As you have said before DooM 2 Map30 isnt much better. Another little thing about the original DooM levels is that the leveldesigners seemingly did not yet know what to do with the caco's flying ability. Used to death in many lategame DooM 2 (and their PWAD clones) the the faraway pillar alcove ambush is not present anywhere. Neither is the interresting altitude battles. and skysiege combats that brighten many huge monsterarmy level up. yours, the Messiah with a Shotgun!

[Guest Anonymous User]

Well what can i say. There have been plenty of DooM ][ flaming and DooM eulogies. Well The truth is that the DooM levels are cooler. Especially what regards to aesthetics and more important: mood! There are, however, two glaring mistakes. The first mistake is the secret level of the Shores of Hell: (E2M9). After seeing a second tower form out of nothing after dissapearing behind an illusionary firewall (The first illusionary wall besides the one in E1M1 which you hardly notice) and seeing the level's title Fortress of Mystery. You are really expecting something special. Something, er mystical. And then you are released into the heart of a standard slugfest. Featuring a pack of Cacos running amuck on four barons. Theres only two big rooms. And the key idea in the end room is just plain childish. Fortunately you are rescued by the superb moody level Halls of the Damned (E2M6). The next mistake is the end level. After a frantic ride through hell you arrive to the very last level for the ultimate showdown with the first invasion from hell. Your knees a shaking as you walk down the first corridor in DIS (E3M9). You have heard so many stories about the ultimate boss. The dreaded Mastermind of the Mars invasion. And then when you actually get there its done in less than a minute with a minimal hitpoint loss. You whack the two cacos with rockets. Then you snatch the megaarmor and brandish your plasma gun run up to the mastermind and keep the trigger down ignoring all return fire. Your plasma gun will keep it in spasms of pain only allowing it to eat around 25% out of your health. And do i need to say that im playing UV. Dammit the mastermind should come unexpected as grand climax after a big complicated level that could soften you up a bit both psychically physically and ammo-wise. Dammit that ending stinks! As you have said before DooM 2 Map30 isnt much better. Another little thing about the original DooM levels is that the leveldesigners seemingly did not yet know what to do with the caco's flying ability. Used to death in many lategame DooM 2 (and their PWAD clones) the the faraway pillar alcove ambush is not present anywhere. Neither is the interresting altitude battles. and skysiege combats that brighten many huge monsterarmy level up. yours, the Messiah with a Shotgun!

[Guest SLAYER]

I don't have much to say about MAP30, it just sux. MAP08 is very, VERY annoying, you battle through the level for ages, and then just die on the path to the exit. It's REALLY hard to pick a bad DooM level, they are all too good. Oh, yeah. Whats wrong with MAP24?? Too hard? (wusses) I don't find it hard.