BFG Lamers

[Guest Excalibur_Z]

I haven't played much csDoom but I've played Legacy and SkullTag a lot, and I've noticed that they still haven't made Doom completely three-dimensional. Horizontal splash is there (slightly smaller splash radius than in Quake, but much more deadly) but vertical splash is nonexistant.

If you remember the original Doom, when you fired a rocket at an area that had the exact (x,y) coordinates as the target, that target would take the rocket's damage, no matter what the height. Legacy's buggy "Allow Rocketjump" flag implements this, but barely. The splash is so insane that instead of a normal rocketjump damage range (35-50) you take around 60-80. There still needs to be some work done on that I guess. It's because of this non-splash that foot shots are near-impossible.

Consider this: Rockets explode in a strange way, and that explosion is seemingly developed around the Doom engine and not logical physics. Remember that in the original Doom .exes, the only time a rocket would explode is if it hit something or someone. Therefore, the explosion stops at that barrier, and it can not continue on past that point. Simply put, a rocket explodes in a two-dimensional semicircle from the point of impact, with the semicircle expanding toward the player.

The only way to hit someone with a foot shot is to blast him toward you, thereby hitting behind the target.

Another thing though, anyone else think the rockets are way oversized? I mean, now that we have engine changes going on, why not change the rocket size (and speed?) to Quake's? =)

---

Regarding the BFG: It's not difficult to use if you know how the damage is dealt. The biggest drawback of all is that you can't use it in open combat - you practically have to get the kills by camping, and then the problem of ammo arises (unless you're playing on an Unlimited Ammo server, but I don't know how many of those there are).

Energy weapons are powerful but inefficient because they fire projectiles. Due to the speed of the Doom marine, these projectiles are easily avoided, unless you can trap them against a wall of plasma bolts by spraying them all over the place. Because of the time it takes to use this tactic, you're probably already dead due to a super shotgun blast or chaingun fire.

Phew, long post... that's it for now =)

[NightFang]

Can you all say, "JOKE"?

[wavelength]

No, the physics of the BFG are: You fire it at something and not only does it do splash damage, it locks a nip onto anyone else in the frame of reference.
In conclusion it is just a sweet, powerful weapon, in any scenario, well at least for me... You see, it is the most powerful weapon in the game, that's what it is in the 7 spot!

And the pistol shoots a nip directly ahead. What's the big deal? It's a game and a stupid weapon.

[Guest cocoon]

eehh so what you are practically saying is that no matter where the player is after the shot he will still be hit (as long as he was in the cone when the bfg was fired)?

--

Ppl talk about map-layouts being fucked when allowing jumping and I guess that could be right. What I was gonna comment on now are the funny people. yeas that is right, the funny ppl, the ones jumping while in combat. That is so stupid. I have never ever seen them avoid a shot because of the jumping.. Is it pointless or is it helpful?
I laugh my ass off everytime i see it because i think it is so stupid

[fraggle]

maybe _Fly_ or someone else should add a feature to csdoom to allow server operators to control which weapons are used on the server

[ethh]

wavelength is an asshole: "look at me everybody, i know everything and listen i'm saying bullshit."

besides, mouselook and jump in doom is out of sense, except for zdoom specific wads (d2k, herian2, ...), it's for quake weenies.

[Guest B'n'B]

In some situations +mlook is usefull. For example: on map17, when opponent triggers teleport to plazma - you have a good chance to take him by RL from open area either at button room or at plazma spot. Try to do this with disabled mouselook... So don't say that it is "ammo wasting" - it's a question of you own fantazy idleness mlook or no. References to map design -"they DID know what they were doing and these features like jumps broke the idea " imo are not correct. Gameplay changes continuously and I know many examples (I'm playing TeamFortress for 3 years) when new tricks changed dramatically map balance, strategy and tactics. It is silly and boringly to clatch at 6years old levels and 6eyars old style(without mouse btw).
Somebody mentioned football ("rules must be the same forevera!"): in all games rules are changing (see new valleyball rules).
And bfg: I don't want to say that bfg is lamming. But what I observing at cs-doom servers is very close to be. When 4-6 players are dreaming to get bfg and to shoot someplace and nothing else - game is very unattractive. It is only my opinion and of course I can't change something. But I have suspicion that many of "bdg-defenders" ("u lamma, u don't know how to use it" - what use? bfg ?! Shoot in wall and turn your head- that's all. Even old doom trick of hidding bfg sound by pushing "open" to walls is not supported in csdoom) are not honest-minded people, - how _such_ gameplay can be interesting?! May be I too stupid to understand this...

[Waldon]

Guys you just need to play on IPX, because the tactics are damn different (I can say fucked up) in csdoom. You would like to disable weapons on the server, or change the BFG's explosion to a shit? Well then play Quake, because this is Doom, and it won't adapt to people who don't like its gameplay. You have to adapt, and if you don't want to, then don't play Doom. This is simple.

[Guest prets]

come to think of it, my info line says it all...

[fyrestorm]

Fnord.

[Guest Castellan]

Well? :-D

[Guest cocoon]

So far everyone is getting along with everyone... Haven't seen many posts here that are negative about the use of BFG. Weird, I encounter them all the time in csdoom...

[Guest Firewater]

I think people really need to stop complaining about other people using the BFG. I mean it's easy enough to dodge, i can understand if the people who are complaining really suck or they just like to bitch because there skills just aren't good enough. Even if you complian people aren't going to stop using it because it's there in front of there face. It's like when your DMing your favorite person and your running around you see a weapon and you pick it up out of impulse. i'm not much of a BFG user myself i'd rather use an RL or SSG. Also if you don't want to worry about big energy weapons go play some Unreal Tournament the waepons suck and the gameplay is nice and slow for ya! If you have anything to say about that then e-mail me at Chamber106@aol.com

[Risen]

Well, here's how I see things:
The BFG could be a fun and fair weapon in many cases, but unfortunately the nature of internet dooming right now limits it severely. First there's ping. I've got a nice connection, so nearly all the servers I play on I get a good connection to. Now, I'm not one to like the BFG much, I think weapons should be based on skill and not point of view (I know that's not exactly how it works). So, since I usually have the ping advantage, I avoid the BFG completely. I use everything else except it, and leave it for the HPBs. It's satisfying to rip through their BFG sprays and come out on top without sending any yourself.
I'm also a big fan of lesser-powered weapons for the most part. I favor E1-style deathmatch, (Though some of the maps could be a bit more balanced). I love the RL. 4-way IPX rocket fights are the best.
Above this, though, I (unlike many people) play to a strict "code of honor." I won't shoot someone I know is typing. I won't shoot someone who respawns directly in front of me because I already know they don't have a chance. I'd rather have my games interesting, and it really bothers me when I respawn and get an SSG (or worse, a BFG) in the face without having a chance to defend myself. It's a lame kill.
My ideal game is not one in which I win. It's the one I have a whole lot of fun playing. If the BFG is in the way of that, (and it doesn't have to be,) than it should go. This "getting the most frags you can" stuff is for competitors. I just want to play.
So to finish it up, note this: I also have better things to do. If I can't get on to a game, have fun and not have to listen to bitching about everything, I probably won't. IPX or local servers are where the game is, none of this 200+ ping crap. BFG is fine to use in moderation. Respect your opponent(s). Play with honor. Be a good sport. It's just a game.

[myk]

thats right

[Risen]

I think that was my longest post ever. :)

[wavelength]

I am not an asshole, just because you say I am. Maybe you are? Now:

EVERYONE should stop whining about m-look and jumping and crap, because you see you aren't SUPPOSED to fire the BFG at the ceiling, OR the floor, aren't you supposed to fire it at the enemy? You know, like a weapon? Like any weapon? The BFG is just a very powerful weapon, besides, in deathmatch you don't have time to fire it strategically, just fire it at someone or in their area and watch the blood fly! Deh!

[MORBIDTWATT]

what is this honor ?????sense when in the history of deathmatch has there been honor when has a man looked at another and said ill let you pass cause you have no weapons ...if the man is worth a frag he deserves to die same goes for the other foes that have crapy ping or just a crapy choice of keys setup fuck it ...it all comes down to this if you were in an arena and wanted to get noticed here in doomworld or just wanted to get noticed by caramack heres your chance remember the dude who fought romero and wooped his ass ...ya keep that in mind that dude went down in history ...now i know you all have a wonderful life some with girls some with doom and some with whatever i though devote my time and life to doom never in my life have i seen rules for deathmatch ever i believe whiners should die and that frags should belong to the skilled ...let me tell you somthin about whiners they arent bad why cause they still kill others so they choose to use ssg and plasma so what whatever if you want things your way make a lan party thats local with friends do things your way now im not standing for bfg nor standing for whiners im standing for doom ..ive been doin this for a long time im what you call an old school veteran for the doom community i can teach ya a few pointers ...damn whiners lets all play doom and keep in mind there are no rules just frags and a dead foe ...if the doom space marine would have seen you all right now he would have done got the whoop ass out on ya mediaval buttocks grrrrrr peace im out let doom rule ....you guys rock

[Risen]

You're right, there are no rules - which is what makes sportsmanlike conduct all the more honorable. I bet more people have left a game against me satisfied than against you - even if they lost. I, too, am an old-schooler, and this is the way we played it.

[stphrz]

My ideal game is not one in which I win. It's the one I have a whole lot of fun playing. If the BFG is in the way of that, (and it doesn't have to be,) than it should go. This "getting the most frags you can" stuff is for competitors. I just want to play.

Amen.

[fodders]

Hehehehe and I get innocent little posts deleted :)

[Guest mantra_]

why did those get deleted?

[fodders]

Maybe it's time some people visited Falc's page and read his server rules, they only apply there but they seem to be well thought out and should be adopted elsewhere
http://www.rarefiles.bizland.com/serverrules.html

[Arioch]

Linguica is fodders.

[Guest mantra_]

Fodders could be his other personality, unaware of one another. Fodders starts unimportant flamewars and linguica feels powerful deleting them. interesting...

BUT WILL ANYONE SEE THIS!

[MORBIDTWATT]

all i got to say is oi....and damn ..ohhh ya and ahh damn...check it out how about if you all just gett along and like forget this petty issue ...i really dont wanna jump up in this piece and like bust ya with my fist in your mouth you see my fellow doomers its about having fun if one person dont have fun then so what ..why cause the other person is having fun if you dont like that certain game then move onto another ..there are so many people being servers to many doom game using many different souce ports why cant you guys understand is it that hard to start your own game and have people join your map why not pull out your favorite map editor and make a map. have things your way.ok so some of you play just to win and some of you play just to have fun ....i play for fun and to win if i lose i say fuck it who cares i gave it my best shot do i quit nope if i wwanted to leave i could but do i no..im telling you its about having fun ...if you really wanna compete why dont you do somthin physical and go out to jump rope or swim ..how about chasing the ice cream man thats fun espeacially when you have a friend to race with get real guys its a game its my favorite game so dont you all ruin it for anyone cause of these amatures using there bfg so what.. if your skilled move away from the bfg ball coming at ya its not that hard:) by the way everyone FREE HISSY

[fodders]

"..how about chasing the ice cream man thats fun espeacially when you have a friend to race with" ...You seen how fast them things go?....no hang on..that was a fire engine I was chasing, I KNEW he couldnt sell any ice-cream going at THAT speed! :)
and no ARIOCH I am not Linguica as my bank manager will be happy to point out :)

[MORBIDTWATT]

hey you lil shit geuss what i got this big latex finger for your lil poop shoot check it out you faggot ....here in doom world i have noticed a change sesne when does one kid or many kids or teens or grown up or anyone come in to say hey deathmatch rules ..im sorry buddy there are none ..deathmatch our way or no way with doom...you stinky unrealer you quaker you half lifer...down into the void you go down i said down you dirty imp cock smack :) go blow

[MORBIDTWATT]

have you tryd it with a butterfly net try cathing one on the highway its much funner...i one time saw the doom space marine take out mrs cyberdemon out of her car and like jacked her for her husbands pants...it was like bad ass you should have seen it...:)

[fodders]

And it's not Linguica that deletes my posts it's Mordeth, he has hated me since.......well that's between me, him and his pet poodle, but hey I OFFERED to pay it's vets bills :)