DarkForces vs Doom article

[Peter Heinemann]

Hello,
I found this comparison between Doom and Dark Forces in the DARK FORCES FAQ and think it is of interest for every Doomer. So I feel free to post it here. These are not my words, I have neither written anything of it nor changed anything. Its is the whole 3. Chapter of the DarkForces FAQ.
All honour goes to the author: Karsten A. Loepelmann.


The FAQList
"The dark side of the force
Just got darker."

Version 2.40
Last Updated: November 15, 1995

Compiled and Maintained by
Karsten A. Loepelmann



===============
3.0 DF vs. DOOM
===============
I've only included this section because there's a *lot* of net.advocacy (and
net.noise) on Usenet. Don't flame me! I have tried to make this section as
balanced and fair as possible, staying away from mere opinions in favour of
the facts. If my facts are wrong, let me know. Ultimately, every individual
must make up his or her own mind which game he or she prefers.

I suggest you make up your own mind -- and not try to "convert" others.
Download the shareware version of DOOM 1.8 and compare it with the DF Prologue
Mission 1 demo, available at better FTP sites everywhere.

(Me? I bought DOOM, and have played it solo and over the modem, and have
played a bit of DOOM II -- in addition to DF, of course. But I'm probably not
going to "rmdir doom" anytime soon. I like each game for its unique
features.)

If you wish to flame me on these (quite reasonable, I think) answers, get a
clue. Like IDDQD. ;-)

3.1 Isn't DF just a ripoff of iD Software's DOOM?
=================================================
Strictly speaking, no: although Dark Forces is a first-person perspective
action/adventure game -- as is DOOM -- it has many features that make it
unique. Think of it this way: if DF is a ripoff of DOOM, then DOOM is a
ripoff of Wolfenstein 3D, which is a ripoff of both Castle Wolfenstein and
Wizardry for the Apple ][...

Each one of these games has, shall we say, "inspired" a successor. The
successor has made large improvements in gameplay and design. Also, advances
in computer hardware have allowed the latter games to be more ambitious in
their attempts to create a pseudo-immersive game environment.

That is not to say, however, that DF could have existed without DOOM. But I
will not change the answer to this particular FAQuestion unless I receive the
"smoking gun" internal memo from LA stating "Develop a ripoff of DOOM." (The
magazine _PC Games Plus Global_ reported that "apparently LucasArts confessed
to Jay Wilbur of id that they had ripped apart the DOOM engine to assemble Dark
Forces.")

From _CD-ROM Magazine_:
"So how much had id Software's Doom influenced the team.[sic] "When Doom
first came out it made us set our sights a bit higher," said Stinnet[sic]. "We
knew we wanted to do a first-person _Star Wars_ game, but we didn't know what
programming technology we'd use. But it is our own engine, which we developed
internally." Is it better than the Doom engine? "It has quite a bit more
capability -- ours can look up and down and it has 3D objects."
"However, there's no rivalry going on, just a lot of healthy American
mutual respect. Both teams keep in touch through E-mail and the id team has
played Dark Forces and (according to a Lucas PR person) loved every bit of
it. This is probably because Dark Forces includes some of the features which
id is supposedly including in its latest title, Quake. The most obvious
difference is that in Dark Forces, you can look up and down. To create the
right perspective, the programmers employed a clever fish-eye effect which
makes buildings look as if they're really looming over you."


3.2 Does DF kick DOOM's butt?
=============================
("Huh-huh. Hey, Beavis. He said 'butt'. Cool.") DF does offer several
substantial improvements over the features offered in DOOM. The primary one
to be considered must be the fact that it is a part of the Star Wars universe.
As a member of the "Star Wars Generation", I can attest to the impact of the
movie trilogy on the popular culture shared by me and my peers. Indeed, George
Lucas intended Star Wars to be no less than "a fairy tale for a generation that
had none of their own" or something like that.

DF and DOOM have many features in common:
- designed as pseudo-immersive first-person shoot-'n'-move environments
- use realistic lighting/shading fx (unknown whether DOOM uses Gouraud
shading)
- have the player acting as a single protagonist attempting to accomplish
various goals (e.g., collecting keys, destroying enemies, finding exits)
within each game level
- have a myriad of weapons at the player's disposal

DF, however, has several unique features:
- great emphasis on solving elaborate puzzles to complete mission objectives
- has many full 3D objects, whereas DOOM had exclusively planar graphics
- allows multiple-layered 'levels' of play *directly* above each other, vs.
DOOM's multiple-tiered, but single-layer levels
- many animated fx (rotating Death Star holos, etc.)
- atmospheric fx, like haze and fog
- the ability to 'look up' and 'look down', as well as aim weapons up
and down at will
- the ability to jump and crouch
- multi-megabytes of cutscenes

The most significant difference between DOOM/DOOM II and DF is that id's games
have multiplayer and save-game features, whereas LA does not currently offer
these particular options in DF.

A recent LA ad campaign contained the following copy: "After facing
stormtroopers, the Death Star and Darth Vader, we took on our toughest
adversary yet. [The critics.]", and these reviews:
"Is it as good as DOOM? Actually, in almost every way, it's better."
-Computer Gaming World
"(four stars out of four) Just as the Star Wars saga set new sci-fi
standards, Dark Forces sets a high mark..."
-USA Today
"10 rating...Dark Forces is the game that DOOM II should have been...a
must-own."
-Computer Player
"The terrific 3D rendering is guaranteed to induce vertigo."
-Newsweek

3.3 Is DF easier than DOOM?
===========================
Did you finish all 14 Missions? Did you get all the secrets in all DF
Missions? Enemies (including the Dark Troopers) not challenging enough, even
on "hard"? Can you finish all Missions with your eyes closed? Which one is
harder? Maybe I don't care; both are fun. Maybe you think you're some kind
of DOOM-god. To you I say: Don't underestimate the Dark Forces. Your
overconfidence is your weakness ;-)


taken from:
The FAQList
"The dark side of the force
Just got darker."

Version 2.40
Last Updated: November 15, 1995

Compiled and Maintained by
Karsten A. Loepelmann

----------------------------------------------------------

I have NOT wrote this article!

[Jon]

heh, interesting.

[Shaviro]

Both DooM and Dark Forces are great games. But they are not to be compared! Dark Forces is older!. Also, this article doesnt look from the DooM viewpoint!!!

[Guest David A]

Um, Dark Forces isn't older than Doom.

[Shaviro]

It sure is!

Doom is from 1993!

Dark Forces is from 1994!

[masterhassan]

actually dark forces is from '95 and no doom is older by about 2 years

[NiGHTMARE]

Shaviro said:

It sure is!

Doom is from 1993!

Dark Forces is from 1994!

Sorry, but if Doom is from 1993 and Dark Forces is from 1994, that means that Doom is seven years old and Dark Forces is six years old. You've just proven yourself wrong :)

[fen boi]

DF definately had a better engine, and the range of puzzles was better than the key, door, key, door of Doom. But it was too short by far, no multiplayer was a real letdown. Lucasarts weren't too supportive of user levels etc if i remember rightly.

the secrets were cool though, especially the ewok (hate dem ewoks)

[Shaviro]

NiGHTMARE said:

Sorry, but if Doom is from 1993 and Dark Forces is from 1994, that means that Doom is seven years old and Dark Forces is six years old. You've just proven yourself wrong :)

No i havent!

Doom will be 7 years December the 10th!

Dark forces came in the autumn of 1994 i think!

[GavinJCD]

Maonth should learn to count....you know...1..2..3..4...etc

[Guest Hellspawn]

Shaviro said:

Both DooM and Dark Forces are great games. But they are not to be compared! Dark Forces is older!. Also, this article doesnt look from the DooM viewpoint!!!

Think about it this way... how could there have BEEN a debate on whether or not DF ripped off Doom if DF is OLDER than Doom? Answer: There couldn't have been. Doom is older than DF. 'Nuff said.

[Peter Heinemann]

I think one con of DarkForces is that there is no way to save the game. Only 3 lifes (some extra-lifes here and there) and the game sometimes goes wild in its secrets. Some levels are really tough and frustrating. In Dark Forces of course a room can be directly over another, like in "Marathon". Hey, nobody replied on the Marathon article I posted. Does that mean nobody of you knows that great game?

[Shaviro]

Hellspawn said:

Think about it this way... how could there have BEEN a debate on whether or not DF ripped off Doom if DF is OLDER than Doom? Answer: There couldn't have been. Doom is older than DF. 'Nuff said.

Uhmmm! It looks like i reversed em! Doom is OLDER than DF!