Boom

[NiGHTMARE]

Okay, I will try to explain this _again_.

It seems pretty obvious from two of my previous posts that a lot of people don't realise this, so I thought I'd better let them know.

If you make a level with lots of detail (i.e. which causes HOM and VPO in doom.exe) it will NOT be incompatible with ANY ports except doom.exe as they all remove or raise the limits. Personally I would have thought that this is pretty bloody obvious, but obviously I was wrong.

Also, if you make a level with Boom features, how many ports do you think it will be incompatible with? Let see:

Boom - of course it will be compatible with this one, duh :)

MBF - supposedly "Boom how it's supposed to be", so compatible

SMMU - an upgrade of MBF, so compatible

ZDoom - almost 100% Boom compatible (1.23 should be totally compatible)

ZDoomGL - just ZDoom with fancy graphics, so compatible

CSDoom - just ZDoom with Client/Serve stuff, so compatible

Skull Tag - heavily modified ZDoom, so compatible

Legacy - apparently the new version will have lots of Boom stuff, no sure if it will be 100% compatible

Edge - same as Legacy, there's going to be many Boom features in the next version

JDoom - the only popular port that ISN'T at all Boom compatible.

So bearing in mind all this, please tell me a good reason why (if you do), you'd rather make a level for doom.exe and have to worry about HOM and VPO than just make it for all ports EXCEPT doom.exe. I doubt there's anybody without at least one of the above ports.

[Arioch]

And of course, my new favorite port, PRBoom 2.1.1

[NiGHTMARE]

Oh yeah, I forgot about that one :) There are a couple of Linux ports that are Boom compatible too (I think).

[Jon]

Legacy has had 99% boom support (more so than zdoom's) for over two versions or so.

[NiGHTMARE]

But ZDoom has only one non-Boom compatible thing (none in the new beta), so how can Legacy have less non compatible things if it's only 99% ?

[NiGHTMARE]

Oh yeah, just in case there's any thickos who STILL don't understand WTF I'm on about, think about it like this.

You've made a level, for plain ol' Doom 2. It looks good, and runs fine.

However, you can add loads of cool looking details to make it look even better, and be happy in the knowledge that if your level now causes doom2.exe to crash with a VPO error, it will still run in pretty much every single Doom port in existence.

Anyone who's anyone in the Doom community bound to have at least one port (and if they don't they're retarded anyway, so who cares about them), so everyone will still be able to play your level even though it won't run in doom2.exe.

[Arioch]

NiGHTMARE said:

But ZDoom has only one non-Boom compatible thing (none in the new beta), so how can Legacy have less non compatible things if it's only 99% ?

NiGHTMARE:

It's impossible to talk to Jon like that.

He has an irrational hatred of ZDoom over Legacy, even though it's been proven that:

ZDoom is more compatible than Legacy with Boom support.
(I note that some Boom effects are only supported with hardware rendering in Legacy, whereas ZDoom supports Boom in software)
ZDoom is faster than Legacy in software rendering.

[Jon]

And you have an irrational love of zdoom :P

"ZDoom is more compatible than Legacy with Boom support."
I don't know where you get this from, my statement was based on 10sectors.wad working fine in legacy and not in zdoom. Its known that at least one boom effect doesn't work in legacy, but I can't remember what.

[NiGHTMARE]

Yes, and all the levels in 10sectors that don't work with ZDoom don't work for the same reason.

Try running the new beta with 10sectors, and you should see that it works.

100% compatability.

Ahahahahahaha (etc).

[Arioch]

Jon said:

And you have an irrational love of zdoom :P

"ZDoom is more compatible than Legacy with Boom support."
I don't know where you get this from, my statement was based on 10sectors.wad working fine in legacy and not in zdoom. Its known that at least one boom effect doesn't work in legacy, but I can't remember what.

NOT to burst your bubble, but the only decent-speed way to run Legacy is through OpenGL rendering, and that has missing textures, not to mention that it doesn't render the flame column in map30 of 10sectors as translucent, even though ZDoom and PRBoom didn't fail to do so.

[Arioch]

Oh yeah, map02 in 10 sectors running in Legacy GL has massive HOM problems.

[Jon]

NiGHTMARE said:

Yes, and all the levels in 10sectors that don't work with ZDoom don't work for the same reason.

Try running the new beta with 10sectors, and you should see that it works.

100% compatability.

Ahahahahahaha (etc).

I'll try 10sectors with the latest zdoom beta if you try it with the latest legacy beta, deal? Hurdler posted a url on the newdoom forums somewhere.

[Jon]

AriocH said:

NOT to burst your bubble, but the only decent-speed way to run Legacy is through OpenGL rendering, and that has missing textures, not to mention that it doesn't render the flame column in map30 of 10sectors as translucent, even though ZDoom and PRBoom didn't fail to do so.

If you say so, I've always found legacy to be a lot faster.

[Arioch]

That's the same for 10sectors as far as RC1 is concerned.

[stphrz]

AriocH said:

NiGHTMARE:

It's impossible to talk to Jon like that.

He has an irrational hatred of ZDoom over Legacy, even though it's been proven that:

ZDoom is more compatible than Legacy with Boom support.
(I note that some Boom effects are only supported with hardware rendering in Legacy, whereas ZDoom supports Boom in software)
ZDoom is faster than Legacy in software rendering.

Actually, I finally got Legacy running on my computer and I find it is much faster than ZDoom in software rendering.
Hires colors in ZDoom are much better though. Not as washed out.

[Lüt]

NiGHTMARE said:

Oh yeah, just in case there's any thickos who STILL don't understand WTF I'm on about, think about it like this.

You've made a level, for plain ol' Doom 2. It looks good, and runs fine.

However, you can add loads of cool looking details to make it look even better, and be happy in the knowledge that if your level now causes doom2.exe to crash with a VPO error, it will still run in pretty much every single Doom port in existence.

Anyone who's anyone in the Doom community bound to have at least one port (and if they don't they're retarded anyway, so who cares about them), so everyone will still be able to play your level even though it won't run in doom2.exe.

Yay. I agree completely, that is how I make (made) all my maps. Except for my oldest ones which I haven't released yet, I'm gonna release those as doom/doom2.exe packages for anybody to build off of, so I am purposely not putting in certain details I think would go nice.

[Arioch]

Stphrz said:

Actually, I finally got Legacy running on my computer and I find it is much faster than ZDoom in software rendering.
Hires colors in ZDoom are much better though. Not as washed out.

I direct thee to http://arioch.despayre.ath.cx/legacy.html

On both my machines ZDoom runs faster at the same resolution as Legacy software mode. In fact, Legacy software mode has never achieved a fps rate of 30 on my Celeron 300@338.

I can achieve 35 fps in ZDoom at 1152x864 on my Athlon 800. Legacy goes only up to 1024x768, and can only do so at an acceptable rate in GL mode.

[stphrz]

Ya know, my recent experience with Chris Lutz's new level, leads me to believe that you are correct. That level runs perfectly fine under ZDoom on my P2 266. On all the other ports it slows down terribly.

[Guest kristus]

NiGHTMARE said:

But ZDoom has only one non-Boom compatible thing (none in the new beta), so how can Legacy have less non compatible things if it's only 99% ?

The only thing that's not supported in LEgacy yet of the boom features are Bex Support.

In OpenGL there's some issues with scrolling flats and shit like that. But that's it.

[Guest Uncle Jummama]

AriocH said:

NOT to burst your bubble, but the only decent-speed way to run Legacy is through OpenGL rendering, and that has missing textures, not to mention that it doesn't render the flame column in map30 of 10sectors as translucent, even though ZDoom and PRBoom didn't fail to do so.

I agree with AriocH.

Jon needs to wake up!!!!

LEGACY IS A SLOW PILE OF S***!!!