Using ZETH question... ?

[Guest Tolwyn]

Hey everyone.
Spent about 2 hours last night (re)downloading:

Zeth, Deth, Warm, RMB, BSP, glBSP, WinTex, DCC, etc., etc..

I've editing PWADs before (Insertion, and some other stuff). I mean, I know what I'm doing! But...

I created a very small map with a few sectors, and added 8 player starts, and 4 deathmatch starts.

Ran it through BSP and RMB.

Tried loading it up with Legacy AND Zdoom, and Zdoom would crash, and Legacy told me that I didn't have any DM starts. Um. ? Am I missing something here?

I have no idea what the heck I've done wrong. Any ideas?

Also a few other questions:
Where can I find the Keyboard Shortcuts for ZETH?
I need more documentation on the LineDef specials and Sector specials. I can't seem to find enough information with the Zdoom reference docs... Hmmm.

Do I NEED to build a Reject map (RMB) AND run BSP? What do I run first? Heh. It's coming back to me slowly, but this No Deathmatch Start thing confuses the hell outta me.

I can email the file if you'd like to take a look at it.

[Guest Wraithchilde]

Tolwyn said:

I need more documentation on the LineDef specials and Sector specials.

Sorry if this is ambiguous but I can't look for the exact names at the moment, but wanted to answer.

Go to the Team TNT site and you'll find a zip with a bunch of utilities in it. There may be 2 different zip files. One of them will have a file called "Boomrefs". A least I'm pretty sure that's the name. Might be "Boomdefs". You'll recognize it when you see it. If you can't find it I'll post one on my web site.

[NiGHTMARE]

I think I know what your problem is (the one with ZDoom anyway). ZDoom _really_ doesn't like unused sectors, and possibly unused sidedefs as well.

I'm not sure if DETH/ZETH can get rid of them or not. There are a few editors that can (DeeP '97 for example), but perhaps there is a program or something to do it.

[Linguica]

If you're using ZETH you might have to do something funky to the WAD before you can play it. Personally I can't stand ZETH and went back to DETH after about 10 minutes of trying to figure out what exactly had been broken.

[Guest Tolwyn]

It must be something else, because the little map I created is only maybe 2 or 3 sectors at MOST.

Can I send it to someone (like 12K zipped)? Anyone? :)

I'm just a bit confused.

Also, what order do you "compile" the wad?

RMB, BSP?
BSP, RMB?

It's strange that it won't work in EITHER ZDoom or Legacy. And it's such a simple little "practice" map. The compilers think it's a Hexen map. Does that matter?

Is there some utility that I need to run the PWAD through?

Thanks, guys.
Also... anyone know of the shortcut keys for DETH / ZETH?

Tolwyn

[NiGHTMARE]

What editor did you make the map in? If it's ZETH, that means it's a ZDoom only map (ZDoom has "adopted" the level format that Hexen uses) and hence will only work in ZDoom.

There should be a special version of BSP that came with ZETH, run that on the WAD and load it in ZDoom and it should be fine.

If not, feel free to send me the map (nick@frad.org)

[Guest Tolwyn]

Nightmare, you kick ass.
Thanks, man. That was the piece of the puzzle that I was missing.

How would I, the average Doom guru, have known that, just out of curiosity? I casually read through the docs and it didn't indicate that I had to use a special compiler.

But that must be the missing link.

So, then, if I want to create levels for BOTH Zdoom and have it work with PRBoom, and Legacy (all are great ports), I'm going to have to use DETH, then?

Thanks for your help and insight, Nightmare.

[NiGHTMARE]

There's a complex tree with all the ports (and I'm not even including the GL ports here). I'll try to explain it:

Basically, anything with Boom features will also run with MBF, SMMU, PRBoom, Legacy, ZDoom, Skull Tag and CSDoom.

Anything with MBF features will also run with SMMU (and possibly PRBoom as well, I'm not sure); Anything with SMMU features will only run with SMMU.

Anything made with Legacy features will only run with Legacy.

Anything with ZDoom features will also run with Skull Tag and CSDoom; Anything with Skull Tag features will only run with Skull Tag.

Anything with EDGE features will only run with EDGE.

PRBoom and CS Doom have no added editing features.


Pretty much anything other than the most ancient editors can edit levels for any port save ZDoom, Skull Tag and CS Doom. For that you will need an editor that has a ZDoom option built in (e.g. DeePSea) or mess around with an editor's Hexen option.

Note that ZDoom, Skull Tag and CS Doom don't HAVE to use ZDoom format maps, they can use the old type as well, its just that certain things (polyobjects, scripting, etc) won't work.


Hope that all helps even more. I might try to make a diagram of the "port tree" sometime, although it will just probably end up looking like a total mess :)

[Afterglow]

To simplify that, if you want your level to work with ports other than ZDoom, move back to Deth. :)

[Guest Tolwyn]

I really appreciate the feedback from you guys.

I'll use DETH and ZETH, but mostly DETH. I understand WadAuthor, but I'm just not wired to work with sectors. I'm more of a vertice and linedef kind of guy. :)

Anyone got that list of keyboard shortcuts for Deth? :)