Doom3 = BAD? Yes.....

[Guest Sethsez]

I have to say, I agree with the article. As we all learned with the release of Quake, just because it comes out of id does not make it good. And, quite frankly, everyone who make Doom good is now gone. And as for Carmack still being there, well....he makes good engines. However, he doesn't do much more than that. After all, all Quake 3 was was an engine with some "sample" maps. Priced as a full game. And, since the artists are not really into it, how can we be sure that the art will be good? id is NOT the same company that put out Doom years ago, and that means that they will not put out the same Doom that they did years ago, unfortunatly. However, miracles do happen....wait, no they don't. Damn.....

[Guest ViolentEd]

I dont get this at all... Why the hell does everyone keep saying "Quake sucks". Goddamnit, a game doesnt hold the largest community because it sucks. It doesnt hold shelf life still because it sucks. It doesnt get award after award because it sucks. It doesnt make people marvle with each sequil at what the people at Id have come up with because it sucks. Anyone that says all the quakes sucks and never did good is a complete idiot because they do a hell of a lot better then most games. I'm sure the Deerhunter community is *filled* with people because Deerhunter diddnt suck...


Big deal, Quake diddnt sell as much as Doom2. So it sucks? I think not, I know its opinion and all but year after year it does get boring. "Id cant make games anymore because they lost John Romero" How about "John Romero cant make games because he lost Id". Look at Daikatana... Back on the subject, look at it this way. Back when Doom and Doom2 were out where was Ids competition? No where, now they have an infinate market just waiting to throw competition in their faces when they relese a new game. Have faith in Id Software. I'm sure they arnt locked in Quake mode. I mean, jesus christ... that IS the only game they have been working on for four years. Maybe, just maybe they wanted to keep the same non-doomish feel in them. (They came pretty close with Quake2) I'm sure they will put a great game together.

[Guest Daggah]

id Software sells so many Quake games because of the id Software name, and keeps them alive by making them easily modifiable...essentially making unfinished games. I, for one, am sick of this shit. Quake's SP sucked. Boring, brown. Its DM was unbalanced. Quake 2's SP sucked...slow, boring. Its DM was slow and boring as hell as well. Quake 3 just sucks, imo. It tries to be fast, but fails miserably.

I'll start liking id Software again when they can release *finished* games.

[Guest Sethsez]

ViolentEd said:

I don't care how many awards Quake won. It was slow, unimaginative (it was NOT the first full-3D game), had bad weapons, crappy monsters (with the most definate exception of the fiend, the only Quake monster that could make it in Doom), and an overall sloppy feel. Quake 2 made up for it *somewhat*, but the atmosphere was bad, and it was still too slow. Quake 3 was a mess, and could not hold a candle to recent FPS like Thief, Unreal Tounament, and System Shock 2. Just because a lot of people follow something doesn't make it good. An entire country wanted to kill of everyone who wasn't like them in 1930-1945. Most of us look at that as a mistake. Quake is not bad, (not good either...) but the fact does remain that even if Romero wouldn't have made such a difference, the others would have. And, the fact remains that id IS a different company than it was seven years ago. Different people, different management, and different focuses (graphics). I'm sorry, but I am still worried.

[Tawney]

ViolentEd said:

The only reason Quake sold so well is because it was (I think) the first to incorperate open entry games on the internet. Now for Quake2, that sold well because of unacceptable lying by id, telling us that the monsters would have super-intelligent AI...LOL!!! I still enjoyed that game though, and I play DM for Quake2 quite often. It may not be as fast as Doom, but hey, sometimes Doom deathatch gets a little hectic:)

As for Quake3...Well, considering I've never played it, I would guess it sold well because 1) It was made by id and 2) It looks REALLY good on screenshots. But of course I can't say much because I never played it.

Most of those Quake2 players never got into Doom Deathmatch because it never had support for the internet, and therefore wasn't the first game they ever played.

My point? Just because the game sold and plays well doesn't mean the game ITSELF is good. Though some people thought Quake deathmatch was great and quite few love Quake2 DM, especially with the 20000 mods that came with it.

[Guest Epiphany]

Lets get one thing straight - Carmack does not make good engines. He makes slow unoptimised crap like most other programmers in the world. I dont expect many to understand this because most of us don't understand the mathematics of 3d engines. Hell I don't, but my best friend does and i've seen the freaky shit he can code. Sure Carmack is a ledgend as he is able to create engines by himself and in comparison to others they are pretty good but don't for one minute think that he is a genius. This will be the major factor threthening the new Doom game because the nature of Doom requires a fast, complex engine which his last achievement, Quake III did not use. Don't overestimate him in this area.

[Guest ViolentEd]

Yeah... Carmack makes crappy engines allright? Thats why... forget it. I wont justify that with a response... Since when did the Doom Community turn their backs on Id. "Oh, you made Quake our moral enemy (In your own mind, most quakers support the Doom Community) and now we hate you for doing it"

ITS A GAME, nothing more. Nothing less. Stop bitching like its a liver transplant that you cant survive without.

[Grul]

What you perhaps not understand is that Doom has as good possibilities as any game. The problem is, however, that some people house unrealistic expectations on it. As I said in another thread, Doom 3 is most probably going to be a good game, but perhaps not in the way we expect. That is the key point in this discussion. Who can say "Doom 3 is going to suck" before it is even in beta-testing phase? I am convinced that id will prioritize making a good game, and not put resemblance to doom in the first room. id might as well have made an entirely new game, but they chose to name it Doom 3 to gain initial popularity. And by the way, who says that Doom 3 has to be made by the initial staff? id has a game-making staff of world-class, no doubt about that. I don't say that they are the best, but they are good and well acknowlegded in the industry. So why is it not possible that Doom 3 is going to be a good game? It perhaps doesn't have the exact feeling of the previous Doom games, but the most important thing is that it is a good game, that it resembles Doom is only secondary. It isn't going to be a 100% Doom game, because that that was acceptable many years ago isn't any more. id must be given room to evolve Doom, and all those stupid expectations that it is going to be an all out Doom game are only futile.

[Guest Daggah]

ViolentEd said:

Yeah... Carmack makes crappy engines allright? Thats why... forget it. I wont justify that with a response... Since when did the Doom Community turn their backs on Id. "Oh, you made Quake our moral enemy (In your own mind, most quakers support the Doom Community) and now we hate you for doing it"

ITS A GAME, nothing more. Nothing less. Stop bitching like its a liver transplant that you cant survive without.

I'm sorry ViolentEd, I'm sorry that I refuse to kiss id Software's ass just because, a long time ago, they made a very very awesome game. That was in the past...I've yet to see anything I would even call decent from them since DOOM II. Get your head out of your ass and realize that id Software SUCKS now.

[Guest ViolentEd]

Only this and the Unreal community say that. Hrmmm...lets see. Two games that took the most competition from Quake. Duke3D community allways busted on the Doom community, Doom was its competition. Do I see a pattern?

What the hell do you care anyways Dagger, last time I checked you hated everyone in the Doom Community and diddnt want anything to do with them.

[Guest Daggah]

Oh, so because of my background I'm not allowed to think that id Software sucks?

Hey guys, according to ViolentEd, we should all be kissing id Software's ass!

You always were a moron.

[Guest ViolentEd]

Hah, you of all people should judge. Too bad the Doomnation forums are down. I'd love to dig up "Shit I'm sorry guys, specailly to Gokuma and ViolentEd" Yeah, I still remember that.

[Guest Sethsez]

ViolentEd, get a grip. How about we get back to the topic? BTW, I don't think Doom3 will be bad, but rather I don't think it will live up to our expectations, like Quake didn't. And no, I'm not dissing Quake, but do you remember the picture of Quake with the gigantic dragon? We never got that. Quake was good, and sometimes scary (evil, evil fiend....), but nothing more. Quake 2 was better, but had no atmosphere to show for it. Quake 3 is lazy. It is an engine in a box for fifty bucks. The levels are almost more of a tech demo than anything, since they are not well laid out. And, there are not many options out of the box. Compare that to Unreal Tounament. Sure, you may say "but there aren't as many people doing projects for UT!". That's because it doesn't need them, because it was a full game out of the box. Personally, I still play the original Quake, and sometimes still play Quake 2 sometimes, but id has been making some mistakes, and are unfortunatly starting to pay for them. They can't rely on name-recognition forever, you know.

[Guest ViolentEd]

Hah, me and Dagger have been bitching at each other for a year and a half now. Probibly more...but I dont remember. I dont care either. About the new doom or Dagger. Hell I hardly care about the old doom. I just play it, an have fun with it. And not obsess over it.

[Guest Daggah]

ViolentEd said:

Hah, you of all people should judge. Too bad the Doomnation forums are down. I'd love to dig up "Shit I'm sorry guys, specailly to Gokuma and ViolentEd" Yeah, I still remember that.

Well whatever. Carmack's coming...bend over, and be a good little fanboy/moron. Your choice/problem, not mine.

[Guest ViolentEd]

Go back to your poor ass trailor and shut your filthy mouth. I'm through waisting my time on vermin like you that end up cancers on society. In 5 years I can show up at your work place and you can make my Extra Value Meal.

[Guest Sethsez]

Hey, if you think poor people are the cancer of society, then you are mistaken. They are people who are down on their luck. People who make derogetory remarks about them simply because of this are society's cancer, not the poor people. And no, I'm not poor, but I have friends who are, and they are good people. So fuck off.

[Guest ViolentEd]

So what if hes poor. I could care less, hes an asshole. Thats why hes a cancer on society. A cancerous asshole, heh.

[Guest Daggah]

Hmm, ViolentEd seems a little angry...maybe Carmack was a little rough with him this time. :)

[Guest mac10suxass]

sethsez whta do u have against doom3???GIVE IT TIME THEN SEE FOR URSELF!

[Guest mac10suxass]

ViolentEd said:

Go back to your poor ass trailor and shut your filthy mouth. I'm through waisting my time on vermin like you that end up cancers on society. In 5 years I can show up at your work place and you can make my Extra Value Meal.

hehehe violent ed is cool.MAC10 SUXass

[Guest mac10suxass]

Sethsez said:

Hey, if you think poor people are the cancer of society, then you are mistaken. They are people who are down on their luck. People who make derogetory remarks about them simply because of this are society's cancer, not the poor people. And no, I'm not poor, but I have friends who are, and they are good people. So fuck off.

yeah sethsez my bro is poor too so i agree BUT ANYWAY MAC10 SUX ASS

[Guest mac10suxass]

ViolentEd said:

So what if hes poor. I could care less, hes an asshole. Thats why hes a cancer on society. A cancerous asshole, heh.

i agree although i have nothing 'gainst homless poor people i do agree that DAGGAH UP HIS MOMS OLD,DRY,PUSSAH IS AN ASsHOLe.MAC10 SUX MAJOR SENOIR OLD DRY PUSSY(his mom to be exact)

[stphrz]

mac10suxass:

You're really beginning to piss me off. I suggest you leave, NOW, before you get your ass banned. Not that you would care anyway. Post this kind of crap on whatever forums you went to before you came here. The Quake community may have tolerance for this sort of stuff, but I think you'll find the Doom community will not put up with it.

[Guest mac10suxass]

alright sorry it wont happen again and also i hate quake i been playing doom and only doom for 6 years.i sorry and this crap will never happen again.

[Guest ViolentEd]

Daggah said:

Hmm, ViolentEd seems a little angry...maybe Carmack was a little rough with him this time. :)

Oh...yeah. Last time I used homosexuality as in insult was 5th grade I belive. I shouldnt have to explain myself to anyone... you most of all. But why should I be pissed. I mean, hell... Doom community was just about dead and it was a nice good run... then blam, a bunch of Gamespy, Quake3 Arena assholes flood the community "Oh...Yeah...doom! Iv'e been playing doom for 7 years now! Zdoom? Whats that?" I hope you all have fun being another planet community. I'm outtie...

[Guest Daggah]

Now wait just a minute there, ViolentEd. That's one of the arguments that I've been using, that DOOM 3/2000/whatever will ruin the community. What exactly is your opinion on this, I mean, hell I might actually be agreeing with you (and neither of us would know it)! :)

Oh, and, trailor trash remarks are somehow better than homosexuality insults? Sorry bud, I don't think so.

[Guest ViolentEd]

Here is how I see it...


Iv'e been around for three and a half years because I loved the original doom. And I still do, when I diddnt have time... sure I left. It happens. But I never went to Quake or Quake2 or anything like that. Why? Because I had no need for them, Doom was enough of an action game for me. But not for them... who are these people? Do they care about what the doom community has gone through? No. Do they care that two of our most devoted members left? No. Who are Cyb and Fraggle? Ask them, they dont know. They wernt there for when Doomnation died. Where is my level reviews from Team Insanity? Where did the Doomnation Forums go? Where is my Doom Damnit? What do they care?


There is a NEW AND IMPROVED DOOM ON THE WAY! Woah, stop the presses. I guess that means they are the new and improved community. New and improved... I guess that means were obsolite along with our old doom. But you know, its wrong for me to be pissed now. What do I have to be pissed about? I'm in the Doom Community! I was part of something before, this isnt the way it was before. And this isnt the doom community I was part of for 3 years of my life. All I see is a bunch of smart ass, right off the gamespy boat, locusts that are going to feed off the doom name untill ID decides to make a new game. You can have your new doom and new community. I'll play Zdoom any day.


And Dagger. You called me a moron, that gives me right to insult you back. In any way I can... it happens.