Quake 2 Engine VS Unreal Engine

[Dima]

Yes I understand that Unreal engine was released later than Quake 2 engine and yes it was in develoment something like 4 years but common it is not that much better than Quake 2 engine!
Yes it can create huge outdoor areas this is the only area Quake 2 engine falls a bit...
Now let's see why Unreal engine is not better than Quake 2 engine!
1)Unreal's engine API is glide that already dead! everything else looks and runs like shit on it! Direct3d runs ok with all the latest patches but looks like shit! Opengl is a JOKE! Quake's 2 engine API is Opengl and it is the best API availibale! When I play Quake 2 engined games it just feels more like 3D unlike Unreal!
2)Unreal engine can handle larger outdoor areas than Quake 2 engine but they are not all that big! Unreal engine wins when it comes to outdoor areas but when it comes to level design and architecture in the levels QUAKE 2 IS THE KING!!!
3)Did anyone notice that the monsters in Unreal are made with less polygons than the mosters in Quake 2? another area where Quake 2 engine wins! I think that Quake 2 Engined games look better than Unreal engined games (even with all the fancy lighting effects and reflection of Unreal engined games) and I won't change my mind ONLY if DNF will show me something INCREDUBLE (which I doubt cause their main focus is on speed).
4)Quake 2 engined games runs great on many cards unlike Unreal engined games (Deus Ex anyone).
5)Programmers of engines Tim Sweeney and John Carmack guess who is better? It's obvious!
6)While Unreal engine supports more fancy effects that Quake 2 engine (Because it came out later and was coded from scrach unlike Quake 2 engine which was an upgrade from Quake 1 engine)
I still like Quake 2 engine much more!
So here we go Tim Sweeney that coded the unreal engine from scratch for 4 years loses to John Carmack who just upgraded Quake 1 engine to Quake 2 engine!!
I think that it is kinda funny!

[DiSTuRBeD]

Like Jeff K would say :

Tim Sweeny is a faggot

I totally agree on all your points =)

[Zaldron]

Unreal Engine was intended to be a highly optimized structure that taked advantage from MMX support. It had the best looking software-emulation renderer. Now, that was a very important advantage back then, when no everyone had a OpenGL in their machines. So:

1) You´re right, you couldn´t even use 3dfx Glide without patching the game.
2) That´s because it has an more refined Vis calculations and a more far clipping plane. In closed areas, Quake 2 makes more fps and delivers more detail. BTW, the old concept of Quake : it can´t handle big outdoor areas, was an problem of Quake 1, not 2.
The problem was the calculation for the 2-layered sky. Make a big room in Q1 without a sky as ceilling texture, and there is no problem.
3) Unreal had more polygons in models than Q2. Look at the vertex results from their respective model utilities. Wins in this place, but there is no real problem in supporting high polycounts. It´s more an hardware problem that software related.
All that fancy reflections were even in GLQuake, you had to write r_mirroralpha x in the console.
4) You´re right D3D and OpenGl support sucks.

Look at more recent news, Q3A engine is older than UT, and still, looks a lot more satisfying than UT engine. I don´t see many changes between U and UT, technollogy speaking.

Well, besides Carmack been the greatest, I still respect Sweeney for its work. He knows what are the Unreal main problems and he will fix them someday. It´s very hard to make an compelling 3D engine and offer some competition to iD software. It´s world-known, Carmack´s the best. Period.

[Guest SuperRacer]

hey I'm Dima too!!!

[Dima]

Zaldron said:

1)Yesterday I played Unreal on my Voodoo 2 (I have Geforce DDR)
I killed a monster and I looked at it and I saw that he looks much less polygonal than the strogs from Quake 2!
I agree that Unreal Engine can layout more polygons on models than Quake 2 but when we will see it in games??
2)I always liked and still like Opengl much more than Direct3D and Glide,I prefer playing Quake 2 engined games with my Geforce than Unreal engined games with my Voodoo 2! With Voodoo 2 there is no slow down at all!! When I put the Geforce in action the games runs 2-3 fps and looks like shit with missing textures (the lamp in one of the levels).
3)I always respected Sweeney he is a very good programmer and I understand that Unreal engine was built when Opengl wasn't very popular and they started making the engine when Voodoo 1 just became availibale but they finished making it when Opengl was already popular and they just added Direct3D and Opengl just like that for people to buy the game come home and return the game back to the store after seeing the speed and the quality the game offered! NO PATCH can improve a game that was built with Glide in mind! I am happy that the next unreal tech will be built with T&L in mind (the terrain) but if Sweeney wants to do something to keep up with Doom 3 engine I suggest one thing:A FRESH START focusing on Opengl (but he won't cause he recently chose Direct3D only).
4)There are still great games that based on the Quake 2 engine that aren't out yet (Anachronox being one of them) DNF dropped the Quake 2 engine ONLY because it offered larger outdoor areas and was easier to use (many effects that would take time to add to Quake 2 engine were already there in Unreal engine that's what Scott Miller said on December 99) if not that THEY WOULDN'T DROP FROM QUAKE 2 ENGINE!
5)I just KNOW that when DNF comes out I will have to play it with my Voodoo 2 and I don't want to to that!
If I was them I wouldn't drop from Quake 2 engine! NO WAY!
Opengl is the KING and it works the best with Nvidia Cards!
I think that Quake 2 engine is better than Unreal engine when it comes to 1)perfomance 2)Polygon counts (unless DNF will prove I am wrong) 3)API 4)More 3D FEEL 5)Level Design (SOF,HEXEN 2,HERETIC 2,DAIKATANA) 6)Net Code I can go on and on...
So my point is:
Quake 2 engine is better than Unreal engine!

[Zaldron]

Hey, you don´t have to convince me. Q2 engine is better. Unreal & LithTech are good engines, but they´re more used by other companies because there is documentation and support. iD just give the code to whoever paid the $500.000 and leave them suffer.