Additional Thing Flags

[baja blast rd.]

This is pure fantasy of course, but it would be cool to have a "Drunk" flag: monsters with this setting always behave as if the player is partially invisible, silly aim and everything. It's an easy and fun way to make monsters more challenging to fight in small groups. Cyberdemons, for one, are a whale of a time when the player is partially invisible. Similarly, it would be useful to have a "Fast" flag, which applies -fast settings to individual monsters even in regular play. Mancubi clusters in small rooms, fuck yeah. Better watch your ass . . . a speedballing demon could be nearby.

In a perfect world, what additional flags would you add to your format of choice?

[scifista42]

Invisibility flag. (making any monster fuzzy)
Invulnerability flag. (making any monster invulnerable, complete with an inverse grayscale palette swap to distinguish him)
Ghost monster flag.
Attack-immediately-upon-first-seeing-the-player flag. (useful for ambushes)

[Olroda]

rdwpa said:

"Drunk" flag.

Sounds like one could have some fun with such a flag.
There's actually a "Fast" flag in ZDooM, though it's called "ALWAYSFAST" there.

...But I take it that you meant when mapping in the original format (or close to it) and from the map editor, yes?

[Gez]

scifista42 said:

Invisibility flag. (making any monster fuzzy)

Strife kind of has that (monster gets translucent, not fuzzy).

scifista42 said:

Ghost monster flag.

That, but for Heretic, and using the Heretic definition of ghost monsters.

Also a "no missile" flag to create melee-only monsters.

[40oz]

I could see too many additional thing flags getting pretty heavily abused and resulting in horrible unfun maps. So I have to say that I'm quite thankful that Doom has a pretty strong foundation for gameplay that isn't very highly capable of being manipulated, which is why I try to discourage people from starting to map with ZDoom, which allows you to control everything.

If these flags were only able to be used by mappers who know what they're doing, I think it would be cool to have things like a "double health" flag, "double damage" flag, "respawn" flag (can be used for items too!) a "stationary" flag which either makes monsters stand still or keeps them from straying too far from their starting location.

[Voros]

Berserk flag... Now monsters can join the fun!

Also, Teleportation flag... Monsters can teleport within a certain range depending on their location, and at different intervals. They can do this at will... Not sure if its possible with vanilla Doom.

[jmickle66666666]

yeah uh, all of this is possible with zdoom

[mouldy]

Doom could really use an "awake" flag for monsters, so that they are automatically alerted to the player without having to fire a shot.

[Rayziik]

mouldy said:

Doom could really use an "awake" flag for monsters, so that they are automatically alerted to the player without having to fire a shot.

^^ This right here us absolutely the only thing I wish was already in the Vanilla game.

Although quite a few mentioned so far sound useful as well. I liked the dehacked fudgery that Valiant used to make spectre-esque revenants and archviles. I can imagine something like spectre cacos and how those could be used...

[scifista42]

Rayzik said:

I can imagine something like spectre cacos and how those could be used...

This wad has them: https://www.doomworld.com/vb/wads-mods/74791-struggle-version-beta-two-is-available/ (WIP)

[HorrorMovieRei]

Friend flag. Makes the monster your bro.

[ExclusiveAlias [CBD]]

scifista42 said:

Ghost monster flag.

Can't this be done with a .deh/.bex file?

• Visible but untouchable
  
• No clipping
  

scifista42 said:

Attack-immediately-upon-first-seeing-the-player flag. (useful for ambushes)

• Attack right back
  

Or are you referencing a monster that is already awake, then immediately fires after first sighting a player?

HorrorMovieGuy said:

Friend flag. Makes the monster your bro.

Somewhat possible with WhackED.

• You remove an enemies attack
  
• Make it move very fast in order to keep up with DOOMguy
  
• Give it a harmless melee animation so that it stops whenever it touches you
  
• Turn its pain animation into an immediate attack
  

Use said frienemy as a shield and it will do the fighting for you

[Gez]

HorrorMovieGuy said:

Friend flag. Makes the monster your bro.

It exists in Strife and also in MBF.

[scifista42]

@ExclusiveAlias [CBD]:

Custom DEHACKED patches would be less flexible and less easy to use than thing flags (if the respective ones existed), though.

Also, there is the notable downside that you can't add new thing types in DEHACKED, so that each of your new thing types must overwrite and replace an already existing thing type.

Also, the proper way of making ghost monsters is to just uncheck the monster's Solid flag and make its radius and height equal to zero.

[ExclusiveAlias [CBD]]

scifista42 said:

Custom DEHACKED patches are less flexible and less easy to use than thing flags, though.

Understood, but I do consider .deh/.bex files more creative when they can create monsters akin to custom zDOOM monsters.

scifista42 said:

Also, there is the notable downside that you can't add new thing types in DEHACKED, so that each of your new thing types must overwrite and replace an already existing thing type.

The sad truth.

scifista42 said:

Also, the proper way of making ghost monsters is to just uncheck the monster's Solid flag and make its radius and height equal to zero.

Thanks for the advice.

[SavageCorona]

scifista42 said:

Attack-immediately-upon-first-seeing-the-player flag. (useful for ambushes)

This sounds similar to the marksman ogre in Quake which is exactly the same as the regular ogre except he doesn't make a sound when he sees you and he instantly starts attacking you. He also doesn't move around like regular ogres can be set to walk around a set path, meaning he doesn't have any idle sounds like the chainsaw scrape sound. He doesn't come up anywhere in the regular game but he's available to place in any custom maps and I'm sure he comes up in Scourge of Armagon in a few places.

[baja blast rd.]

Olroda said:

Sounds like one could have some fun with such a flag.
There's actually a "Fast" flag in ZDooM, though it's called "ALWAYSFAST" there.

...But I take it that you meant when mapping in the original format (or close to it) and from the map editor, yes?

Correct, I map for Boom and am not really concerned with what's already possible in Brewtal GZHyperDoom or whatever the advanced sourceport of choice is.

[Jaxxoon R]

A flag to make a monster not count for kills.

[VGA]

scifista42 said:

Also, there is the notable downside that you can't add new thing types in DEHACKED, so that each of your new thing types must overwrite and replace an already existing thing type.

That is true, but MBF added some extra things. So you can replace those, the SS nazis, commander Keen etc.

Through testing and whining I have persuaded Brad to improve Doom Retro's MBF support, only the FRIEND flag is missing I think. And he added a ton of new states.

When I get some time I will release an ambitious dehacked project I created (adaptation from a decorate project)

PM me if you want to test it, I know you like everything dehacked!

[Andrea Rovenski]

Seems quite silly that all these things are easily doable in G/ZDoom, and yet people still "wish" they were possible, and just refuse to map for an advanced port in which they are accessible.

[VGA]

Cyberdemon531 said:

Seems quite silly that all these things are easily doable in G/ZDoom, and yet people still "wish" they were possible, and just refuse to map for an advanced port in which they are accessible.

But people, especially on this forum want to play prboom+, doom retro etc

[Andrea Rovenski]

VGA said:

But people, especially on this forum want to play prboom+, doom retro etc

For what reason? I'm assuming they want to for vanilla experience, but if people are wanting to create maps that have expanded abilities, then that is no longer the vanilla experience, and using prboom+ would be irrelevant at that point.

[Voros]

VGA said:

But people, especially on this forum want to play prboom+, doom retro etc

I want to play prboom + on my phone, and Zandronum, edge,gzdoom on my laptop.

Plus, I found mapping in UDMF very hard to do...

[Gez]

Cyberdemon531 said:

For what reason?

They want to eat their cake, and have it too.

[VGA]

Zdoom evangelist arrived right on cue. Your commitment is commendable :D

[Rayziik]

Cyberdemon531 said:

For what reason?

Demo Compatibility! :D

[joe-ilya]

Key drop flag.

[VGA]

joe-ilya said:

Key drop flag.

This is brilliant, could be used for keydropping mini bosses. Or mega bosses.

[Andrea Rovenski]

Rayzik said:

Demo Compatibility! :D

G/Zdoom supports demos too though...

[Jaxxoon R]

And then if you update G/ZDoom.
Those demos won't work.