Comparing the speed of SNES Doom...

[Linguica]

PS2 is easily the best of the current consoles. It has the best controller, some of the best games, and the fact that it'll play almost any PSX game is icing on the cake.

[elbryan42]

I'm not going to start with PS2... :P

I think Gamecube will take the trophy home. Especially this fall.

[999cop]

Arioch said:

Here's an idea. Play doom2.exe.

BEST IDEA EVER!

Doomboy said:

And here's another idea. Play ZDoom.exe, with Doom2.wad.

bah

[IMJack]

Has anybody tried that basic source port somebody made for the Dreamcast? Is it anything worthwhile?

[TheHighestTree]

N64 has the best controller? Gamecube's gonna be #1? Wtf? The N64 controller was absolutely, without a doubt the worst controller i have ever laid hands upon (with the exception of my Commadore 64's joystick, but that was ~30 years ancient.)


PS2 and XBox are your consoles, unless of course you happen to be 6.

On the original topic, i just got a new copy of SNES Doom for free. I haven't gotten to play it much, but i'm surprised at how chankily it runs. The lack of floor textures also has an impact on the gameplay. I don't care that episode 4 isn't there; i hate that one.

Sorry if i brought to much negativity into this thread, but i'm tired and just looking for a good place to cut off this paragraph...i think THIS should do it.

[magikal]

Linguica said:

Funny, if I remember correctly Goldeneye was THE most popular N64 game. Practically everyone who owned a N64 owned Goldeneye. I guess they were all stupid.

Guess most of them have never really played Doom.

[JavaGuy]

When GoldenEye first came out, I resisted. But eventually, I got it and played the hell out of it for so long. It might not be much fun anymore, but I've rarely gotten the same kind of entertainment from a game. The world is not enough. however, is a game I shall not even discuss because I hate it so much it makes me want to go on a rage, possibly killing thousands before I'm gunned down.

In my oppinion, play glTron. I can't get it to work with Linux right now, but if you've got windows, get it right now. It's fun, simple, and will keep one's self entertained until they realize how much of their life they've wasted playing it.

[AndrewB]

Screw the current generation of consoles. They all blow cotton wads. It seems like newer games are more and more, umm, increasingly becoming easier and easier, shorter and shorter. You can now typically do things during normal play that 5 years ago would typically be reserved for cheat codes. Games today tell you exactly where to go, what to do, take your hand and carry you straight through the game. This doesn't apply only to consoles, however. The two most obvious examples I can think of are Half-Life and 007 Agent Under Fire for Gamecube. I hate those games for the same reason I hate the last 5 years of The Simpsons. My brain keeps saying "YOU DON'T HAVE TO DUMB IT DOWN THAT MUCH YOU STUPID GAME."

Back on topic, I'm staying away from consoles and video card upgrades because I'm astounded at how little the fun factor has improved. We rented a Gamecube some weeks ago and three games, one of them was called Crazy Taxi. The gameplay was very fun but mind-numbingly simple. There's absolutely no reason why the same game with the same with the same level of fun could not be made for a N64 or PS1. The only thing the console upgrade offered was a higher framerate, double resolution, and fancy shadows and more polygons, stuff that I don't even think once about while actually playing the game.

[deadnail]

I just got back from the drive in, lilo & stitch and reign of fire, and that includes bongloads and three joints so I'm about to ejaculate some opinion all over this thread and I hope you all take a big ol' bite.

First, the higher SNES Doom emulated framerate, it's simple. The SuperFX chip was really another processor in the cartridge. Early games got the 5mhz model, I believe Doom was the only finished game with the FX2, which was 10mhz. I think that ZSNES's SuperFX core has a bug in it or something, because that shit just doesn't make any Goddamn sense.

What I WOULD like, though, is to see a game with MOTION COMPENSATION or wtf it's called. All I know is DVDs on my computer with my GeForce 3 look incredibly fucking smooth and if they could rewire that shit into an emulator... that'd be sweet.

Plus we need a NES emulator with buttons that can be assigned as turbo buttons, since I have a PSX pad plugged right into my PC. I have four main buttons, that could be A, B, turbo A, turbo B. Just like my NES Max controller. God, what a piece of shit that monstrosity was.

Oh and hats off to the SNES and the PSX in terms of bad ass gaming libraries, no doubt. The PS2, X-Box and Gamecube certainly cannot compete yet in this regard, but give them their time to blossom; they're still new. In one or two years then we can start trying to hold them up to the same light.

But in my opinion my PS2 has been a staggering disappointment. I mean, some of the games on it are so fucking jagged they look like they're running at original Playstation rez. That shit just irritates me to no end that the system is STILL incredibly powerful it's just had it's legs cut off (only 4 megs of video memory). If it just had four or even two times as much video memory maybe they could step on up on the rez.

So far my X-Box has served me well with a few choice games, most notably being Halo. I mean the controller could use some tweakage and I'm not fond of the fact that it won't play copied audio cd's but the Goddamn thing is a very capable system and I can't wait to see some more quality games for it.

Gamecube, on the other hand, always blows my asshole out of my nipples because it's just this ashtray sized box and the damn thing usually looks better than 75% of PS2 games. With the Gamecube though they're not pushing edgecore graphics they're pushing fun games, and this is where I hope it succeeds. It definitely needs 2 or 47 more hit games. The controller, though, is pretty good but I really dislike the top triggers and especially Z, something should be done about that shit.

The PS2 of course wins out in the controller scheme, although I find that making every button pressure sensitive is fucking GAY with a capital Ü. There's no need for that shit. What it seems to do is make a few games really unresponsive and the games that do use it require you to push that button down so hard your knuckles crack. Fucking stupid. Make them just digital buttons we don't need any analog pressure sensitivy on every Goddamn button. L2 & R2 only need to be pressure sensitive since mostly racer type games will actually make use of the fucking things.

And replace the useless right analog stick with a trackball so you can use the crosspad as WASD and actually have some fun with a FPS game dammit.

Oh and by the way Reign of Fire is NOT worth paying big money for. It's short and although the fighting/dragon scenes are well done there aren't a lot of them, most of them are predictable, and the final scene is kinda anticlimatic. Just blam, that's it.

Lilo & Stitch, though, that movie caught me off guard. Disney made me laugh a few good times. =)

[AndrewB]

deadnail said:

The PS2 of course wins out in the controller scheme,

If it wins after the review you just gave, I'm FOR SURE staying away from consoles for about 200 years.

[Sharessa]

Virgin, Unitarian, Canadian. I'm a triple-threat.

Dude...I just realised. I am, I was, and I will be.

[Linguica]

The Dual Shock controller is the best game controller ever made. D-pad, TWO analog sticks, 4 face buttons, 4 top buttons, plus everything is pressure sensitive, plus there are buttons in the analog sticks, plus it's got built in vibration? Spooge. Just having the option of using the D-pad vs. analog stick to do the same thing would make it awesome but the rest puts it ten steps ahead.

And deadnail, everything being pressure sensitive is the best thing ever. In Ace Combat 4 there's one button to look at the radar map, and how hard you press it determines how big of an area the map shows. It compresses into one button something which would normally take two or even a D-pad movement. If games feel unresponsive because of the pressure sensitivity then either the game has poor controls or you need to get rid of the shakes.

[Naked Snake]

the_Danarchist said:

Dude...I just realised. I am, I was, and I will be.

Ahahaha, Danarchy is moving to Canada!

[deadnail]

Linguica said:
The Dual Shock controller is the best game controller ever made.

AGREED.

D-pad, TWO analog sticks, 4 face buttons, 4 top buttons, plus everything is pressure sensitive, plus there are buttons in the analog sticks, plus it's got built in vibration? Spooge.

Okay now think of it this way.

CURRENT DUAL SHOCK 2:
• Digital crosspad: It's PERFECT, don't ever change it. Since it's crosscut it's so much better than every other one out there. Try doing a Shinkuu Hadoken Airial Rave reliably with the Dreamcast's sloppy assed dpad, the Gamecube's tiny one, or the X-Box's humongous sloppy disc. A nice tight, crosscut digital crosspad is absolutely perfect and I hope that all of them become like this ASAP.
• Four main action buttons: Traditional SNES layout too
• Top 4 action buttons
• Two center accessory buttons, select & start
• Dual analog sticks: Having a PS2 pad plugged directly into my PC I can personally vouche for the sensitivity of the Dual Shock pads, and it is great. Them being clickable is just another bonus. The only way to improve the analog sticks is if they had a thumbgroove like the X-Box analogs.
• Built in vibration
• Pressure sensitivity: I've played a few games where it's useful, but most of the games that actually use it don't do it quite right, so until companies have a few games with it done properly I appreciate seeing the option to DISABLE it so I don't have to dig out an old Dual Shock just because I don't want to dent my fingers pressing a button until my controller creaks just to go faster.

MY DREAM CONTROLLER THAT MAKES KAT WET:
• Digital crosspad: Unchanged.
• Four main action buttons: They must be the same size and distance, the Dreamcast ones are a bit smaller so they feel to far apart. Keep them the same as the PS2 controller, however, the rows should alternate between convex and concave, like the SNES controller. I miss that.
• Top 4 action buttons: Also just fine, however, L2 & R2 could possibly be Dreamcast/Gamecube/X-Box style triggers so long as L1 & R1 are intact, I'm fine with that change.
• Two center buttons, select & start: Follow me here. Move select up a bit. Now put start under it. Now scoot it over to the left a bit so both buttons can be easily reached with your left thumb. Now add 2 buttons for the right thumb in that fashion. POW! I just added to function buttons. How about a button called the 'Map' button since so many games have a map nowadays and it's always assigned to a different Goddamn button?
• Dual analog sticks: Give the left analog stick a thumbgroove like the X-Box has, dammit. My thumb does occaisionally rove around the top of the PS2 analog but it never goes anywhere during my long Halo sessions. As for the right analog stick, REPLACE IT WITH AN OPTICAL TRACKBALL. It can be used for freelooking in FPS games. For a long time I had a Logitech Trackman Marble trackball and I got used to playing Doom/SoF with it and you know what? It's not a mouse but it's the 2nd best thing. An analog stick must be the 5th best thing. So get rid of that useless right analog stick and make it a trackball dammit, then you can use the digital crosspad like WASD and finally get some decent FPS control from a gamepad, a gamepad that isn't specifically designed for FPS games either... a gamepad that still works with every other game out there.
• Built in vibration: The only possible change here I could suggest would be a safety switch to force it being off. You know, like if you just had wrist surgery and you can't handle the vibrations and you don't want to risk it so you can just pop a switch on the back of the controller and never even think about it. =)
• Pressure sensitivity: I'm not fond of it (games that come with bad dead zones or require 100% pressure for something, for instance) but I will admit it has potential.

It's just like your Dual Shock 2 but the analog feels better, you have 2 extra buttons and on top of all of that you can play a FPS game on it much better. =)

And deadnail, everything being pressure sensitive is the best thing ever. In Ace Combat 4 there's one button to look at the radar map, and how hard you press it determines how big of an area the map shows. It compresses into one button something which would normally take two or even a D-pad movement. If games feel unresponsive because of the pressure sensitivity then either the game has poor controls or you need to get rid of the shakes.

Some games just have a bad dead zone too. That sounds like a good use. A pressure sensitive Map button would be very handy in this regard. Just keep in mind though that to hit a button's 100% sensitivity you really have to be jamming that bastard down HARD, I mean to the point where your knuckles pop and the plastic on the controller around the button starts to cave in. It's nice they're that sensitive but requiring that much pressure in a video game is fucking stupid, it's just as bad as requiring people to randomly hit buttons really fast.

It's just one of those things that has to be done well or it really sucks.

I've been mentally toying with the best possible gamepad for quite some time now and I'm concrete in thinking my changes are necessary. Kat likes them too. To make shit easier on you here is some MSPaint love. o.O

[IMJack]

Another dumb question: How do I go about installing/using a Dual SHock on my PC? Do I need an adapter of some kind?

I mean, GTA3 is nice and playable using my SideWinder, but it just doesn't feel the same. And I can't always remember what key does what.

Addendum:

Top 4 action buttons: Also just fine, however, L2 & R2 could possibly be Dreamcast/Gamecube/X-Box style triggers so long as L1 & R1 are intact, I'm fine with that change.

The problem with triggers is that they're fragile little bastards. I've destroyed the triggers on no less than three Dreamcast controllers from playing Crazy Taxi. :)

[Sharessa]

bigbadgangsta said:

Ahahaha, Danarchy is moving to Canada!

Hopefuly.

Its one of my few goals in life.

[elbryan42]

Another dumb question: How do I go about installing/using a Dual SHock on my PC? Do I need an adapter of some kind?

Order this adapter:

http://www.ncix.com/canada/productdetail.php?sku=6362

IT WORKS PERFECT! I use it for all of my games now. :)

And though it's not listed, it also works for Windows XP. USB rules.

I agree that the best controller so far is the PSX/PS2 Dual Shock. The only problem I can find with it is that I wish that the analog sticks had more resistance like a Gamecube/Dreamcast controller. Design-wise, it's the best controller. Can't get a better controller for the PC. And it has something NO PC controllers have: DURABILITY. The D-Pad won't be wearing out on a Dual Shock controller, that's for sure.

[deadnail]

I mean, GTA3 is nice and playable using my SideWinder, but it just doesn't feel the same.

I cleaned my room today! I found an old, worn out Trackman Marble Wheel, a barely used Optical Trackman Marble Wheel thingamajigger, a Sidewinder, and a Hammerhead FX controller... and threw all of them away. Well, I kept the new Optical trackball.

NOTHING comes close to the refinement and quality of a console gamepad, these jackass PC gamepads are nigh useless. The buttons are soft, they barely snap back, the d-pads are sloppy, loose, usually discs and not a cross, and of course we can't forget the damn things shatter if you look at them funny. Now and again I like to browse through the latest batch of PC Gamepads at Best Buy and just have a giggle, especially at the pricings.

Now that adapter he linked you will work, it's similar to mine, although Zophar's Domain sells a newer one that looks better than the ones we're currently using. =/

Without doubt though, if you do more than FPS on your computer YOU FUCKING NEED a PSX->USB controller converter, especially if you dig emulation.

Besides, playing ZDoom with a Dual Shock is just orgasmic... the analog stick support is superb.

The problem with triggers is that they're fragile little bastards. I've destroyed the triggers on no less than three Dreamcast controllers from playing Crazy Taxi. :)

That's probably just because the Dreamcast controller is ass. The Gamecube's triggers don't feel any better, worse actually =(, but the X-Box's triggers are fucking solid. I'd like your opinion on those.

[spank]

Assmaster said:

If you wanna see a ridiculous port, play Duke 3D for Genesis (Mega Drive). I dont know why they even bothered.

WTF are you talking about? That doesn't exist.

Stphrz: I had Doom for the Jag and the 3DO. The Jag version was dope, but like you said the 3DO one sucked nuts, just like the 32X port (and IIRC they were the same).

[GooberMan]

I never liked the N64 controller. What's with this "hold it this way to use this setup, hold it that way to use that setup"? Very stupid if you ask me. The DualShock1/2 setup is far superior, everything is within easy reach.
I'll agree that the PS2 is the best of the lot because of the controler and games available. Hardware wise, there is better out there, but in terms of entertainment value, the PS2 wins hands down.
I never played the Dreamcast version of Crazy Taxi. I have played the PS2 version, found it entertaining for 5 minutes.
And deadnail's perfect controller does sound like a pretty good. I'm not sure how the triggers work for Dreamcast/X-Box/Gamecube l2/r2, but I find l2/r2 a bit of a bitch to use on a DualShock because of the way I hold the controller.

[deadnail]

Duke3D for Sega Genesis DOES exist! It's even worse than Doom for 3D0. >.<

GooberMan said:
I never liked the N64 controller. What's with this "hold it this way to use this setup, hold it that way to use that setup"? Very stupid if you ask me.

Any controller that requires 3 hands to reach everything is a bad controller.

I never played the Dreamcast version of Crazy Taxi. I have played the PS2 version, found it entertaining for 5 minutes.

Sounds better than the DC version then. =)

And deadnail's perfect controller does sound like a pretty good. I'm not sure how the triggers work for Dreamcast/X-Box/Gamecube l2/r2, but I find l2/r2 a bit of a bitch to use on a DualShock because of the way I hold the controller.

Well it'd make them bigger so they'd probably be easier for you to hit. The point of making them triggers instead of buttons is just that, making them like gas pedals. Wrap your hands around an X-Box controller at Target and you'll see what I'm talking about.

[stphrz]

Nuno Correia said:

WTF are you talking about? That doesn't exist.

Stphrz: I had Doom for the Jag and the 3DO. The Jag version was dope, but like you said the 3DO one sucked nuts, just like the 32X port (and IIRC they were the same).

The 3do version was pretty much the same as the jag version. Same levels but with decent music. And of course that wonderful choppy framerate. Actually the only thing really missing from the jag version was the music. I think the 32x version only had something like 15 levels :/

[JavaGuy]

I can get used to any controller, which is in part due to the fact that I've got way to much time on my hands.However, the dreamcast controller (though I liked dreamcast) was pretty horrible. It was as though they set it up so you could only do one thing at a time.
"Well, I'd like to strafe, but damnit I'd have to stop shooting to do it."
In any case, PS2 is the best system because it can play all the old games in addition to it's own new ones. And most of us know that PS1 had a shitload of fun games.

[elbryan42]

The Dreamcast controller took a long while to get used to, but I actually like the feel of it better than the Dual Shock. However, the severe lack of buttons sucked big time. Now look at the X-Box controller. Slightly wider, a big plus, and much more buttons. I still prefer the Dual Shock overall. I'm starting to really warm up to the Gamecube controller, especially after 5+ hour sessions of Eternal Darkness. :P It's a weird controller, but actually is quite nice. The only problems I have is that the Z button REALLY sucks. It requires you to cringe your index finger to push it right. The other problem is the d-pad's position on the controller just doesn't feel right. Maybe I'm too used to Dual Shock.

Now the N64 controller, THAT SUCKED! Playing Doom 64 emulated with a Dual Shock is SO MUCH better than playing it with the N64 controller.

My views on the PS2. I don't think highly of it. Sure, it has great games, but I rate a system on the EXCLUSIVE games you can get on it, not the games you can get anywhere else. The only exclusive games I like on it are Gran Turismo 3, Devil May Cry, and Final Fantasy X. The load time is terrible compared to the other systems out. Gamecube, like the Dreamcast, doesn't even seem to load (ok, DON'T mention Soldier of Fortune!). Compare that to 1 min+ load times on the PS2. The PS2 is great for its ports of PC and arcade games, but for exclusive games, I'm more willing to go for Gamecube.

X-Box, not to sure what to think on that one. Started off with a lot of steam, but slowly sputtering out. We'll see what the future holds for it.

[JavaGuy]

X-Box is awesome....

Until you get sick of Halo. Then you're left with a Useless-Box, which makes a fun paper weight or contraversial piece.

[DiluteCo]

you have to be a complete fucking idiot to think the n64's controller is hard to use, lets see, i play q2-64 and my hands never leave their spot, hmm. anyways, i find it amusing to see people yapping about what is good and what isnt, hey, lets just have a big arguement over opinion. sounds fun.

[elbryan42]

Quake 2 on the N64 is the worst of the ports. They killed the hubs, butchered the levels. And gameplay is smoother on the PSX with 1/4 of the memory. So what if the graphics are super sharp and colorful? Not to mention playing Quake 2 Dual Analog on the PSX kicks all sorts of ass.

[DiluteCo]

who gives a shit? i like it, i could honestly give a fuck less what anyone else thinks about it, heh. I like it because i can play a quick dm game with no fucking lag with my friends. EOD.

[Naked Snake]

I played Quake 2 for the N64 and was seriously displeased with it. I played Quake 1 on the N64 and loved it. Goldeneye sucking? Bah, I played 4 player split screen DM on that with cousins and friends nonstop, though I disliked the SP aspect of it. I especially hated how they renamed all the guns (you could tell what they were but they named them different, like the Uzi and a ZMG or whatever) but that was probably due to copyright issues and stuff.

[CacoCaddy]

Duke Nukem 64, rocked this world. Great speed and such. but wheres Spin Cycle :( ? And I loved the plasma cannon!