Valiant: Vaccinated Edition (on idgames)

[wildweasel]

Oh man, thanks for doing this, though I'm hoping you did it of your own free will and not because anybody decided to spam you with requests...

That said, the very first thing I'm going to try this with is DoomRL Arsenal.

[Gez]

WildWeasel said:

Oh man, thanks for doing this, though I'm hoping you did it of your own free will and not because anybody decided to spam you with requests...

First sentence, and first FAQ item:

skillsaw said:

I wanted to play Valiant with Demonsteele.


FAQ:
Why compromise your artistic vision and release this without all the Valiant monsters?
I just wanted to play Valiant with DemonSteele and thought others may also enjoy having the chance. Of course, I consider the original release the definitive version.

[skillsaw]

Nope, no spam requests - no one's really mentioned gameplay mod compatibility since the days/weeks after the initial release IIRC. It was pretty clear even then that gameplay mod support was going to have to come in the form of revamped thing placement in maps rather than just a simple decorate patch due to the ugly combination of dehacked and decorate that I stitched together to get cross port compatiblity working in the original version.

[Chezza]

So now you can just chuck Brutal Doom right on there. Best Megawad ever, am I right fellas?

Seriously though, playing Brutal Doom with Valiant would improve my gameplay experience quite a bit. The rifle with ion sights was a much desired weapon when it came to distant turret monsters. And distant turret monsters there were aplenty.

[40oz]

skillsaw said:

I'll probably play through this again with another mod this week and then call it done. I'm debating whether or not I will upload this edition to the archives, but I am leaning towards yes, just to make sure it sticks around even if I disappear. I'm just not crazy about having two versions of the same wad on idgames.

I'd say do it. I'm sure I've seen some wads have additional entries for alternate versions. This isn't a minor fix, it's a pretty big transformation and is worth having a permanent link considering the popularity of gameplay mods these days.

[Skrell]

I'm trying to play this with Brutal Pack 7.5.1a and i'm getting a LOT of graphical glitches? The shotgun switches to the default one...doesn't reload...i see rocket shells that the original default ones...not sure what's going on.

[skillsaw]

Skrell said:

I'm trying to play this with Brutal Pack 7.5.1a and i'm getting a LOT of graphical glitches? The shotgun switches to the default one...doesn't reload...i see rocket shells that the original default ones...not sure what's going on.

My guess is that you need to change the load order of valve.wad and Brutal Pack. valve.wad should be first in your load order, followed by Brutal Pack - e.g.:

gzdoom.exe -file valve.wad brutalpack.pk3 (or whatever the filename of brutalpack is)

If you load the wads in the correct order you should see the "Sgt Mark IV's Brutal Doom" graphic on the main menu instead of the "Valiant (Vaccinated Edition) graphic.

[Sergeant_Mark_IV]

skillsaw said:

Ah, I've fixed this issue. Brutal Doom changes the Invisibility into a (blocking) helper marine: the Mancubus and helper marine were stuck on top of each other, which somehow also blocked the pit. I'll check to see if there are more instances of this issue occurring and I'll fix them later on today.

If anyone more familiar with Brutal Doom knows which non-blocking items are replaced with blocking items please let me know, that would speed up the process for me a lot. Otherwise, I'll figure it out somehow.

I can make the captured marine not block monsters on next version.

[skillsaw]

Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

I can make the captured marine not block monsters on next version.

The updated version of valve.wad I posted yesterday does fix the issue just by moving the mancubus and invisibility apart. But yeah, that might help future-proof Brutal Doom with new maps.

[40oz]

Sergeant_Mark_IV said:

I can make the captured marine not block monsters on next version.

Aww look at gameplay mod makers and boom mappers getting along!!! Brings joy to my heart :)

Anyway I decided to give this a whack with no mods attached and I'm up to map10 in one sitting, which is as far as I got on valiant before I gave up on the original. I'm not sure if its way easier, it might just because I played those particular maps once before. Or I just might be more relaxed now that I'm using familiar guns to kill familiar monsters. Those imps pitching fastballs used to wear me out! I haven't had any ammo troubles so far though and still having a lot of fun.

Once again, nice job, I think ill finally play through this thing to the end like I once wanted to now that everything is in my traditional doom comfort zone. Great work!!

[Yugiboy85]

So, arachnorbs are now cacos huh? Nice :D

Been playing through this with smooth doom and so far, so good :D

[Varis Alpha]

i played through this to the end and had a grand old time. i was a bit confused over the end of the wad, though. i assume the mastermind was some sort of souped-up boss in the original? even stranger was how i just stumbled into a portal after that and the level ended. kinda didn't string right with the text-blurb i got saying i was more of a biological monstrosity at this point.

aside from that i had no real complaints. the final episode was pretty cool. nice to see some kinda Duke 3D-styled space levels. and the light bridges were pretty cool too.

[skillsaw]

Doomhuntress said:

i was a bit confused over the end of the wad, though. i assume the mastermind was some sort of souped-up boss in the original?

Yeah, the end boss is normally an enhanced arch-vile, and the exit opens after you kill him. It's just a timed encounter in this version since I didn't have a custom monster that could open a door upon death.

[Shadow Hog]

When Valiant first came out, I jumped right into Episode 5 on HNTR (I wanted to see the light-bridges with my own eyes) and did not have a good time.

This version, though, I did exactly the same thing and am now having a blast with.

I'm not going to say the altered enemies of the original were bad; clearly I did the wrong thing by jumping right into Episode 5 instead of starting from the first level and getting acclimated to them. I will say, however, thanks for making this version.

[Xaser]

This is cool.

I like the idea of including this alongside valiant.wad in the same /idgames zip. That ought to cut down on confusion since there'd be only one canonical Valiant download link. I suppose it would bloat the filesize a bit, but everyone's got highspeed these days... and a decade-ago I'd shout at myself for saying this.

Also heh, valve.wad. Valiant 2 confirmed.

[scalliano]

hehe valiant shuffled

Seriously though, it's good to see mod compatibility being implemented in a PWAD for the right reasons, if you get my meaning ;)

[Babrurad]

When running Valiant: Vaccinated Edition, with Brutal Doom v20b i can't see the floors and buttons textures. Does anybody have any idea as to how to fix this?

Thank you

using;
ZDL 3.2.2.2
BD v20b
Zdoom (can't use gzdoom as i have an old computer)

[gaspe]

Babrurad said:

using;
Zdoom (can't use gzdoom as i have an old computer)

You need GZDoom to run it, or Zandronum.

[Babrurad]

Just tried it with zanondrum, same situation.

Zanondrum + Valiant V wad + Brutal + ZDL=some textures vanish

Zanondrum + Valiant V wad + Brutal=works

[mecheye]

The super secret in Rocket Zone II causes extreme frame drops when using Project Brutality.

Oddly enough, in the un-Vaccinmated version using PB's compatibility patch there is no lag in that area.
Was there a script that prevented that from happening in the original?

[Rayziik]

mecheye said:

...using Project Brutality.

This is probably your problem. The original version has virtually no lag in this area.

[Empyre]

Babrurad said:

Just tried it with zanondrum, same situation.

Zanondrum + Valiant V wad + Brutal + ZDL=some textures vanish

Zanondrum + Valiant V wad + Brutal=works

Based on what you said, it looks like ZDL is causing the problem, which is weird. Zandronum comes with a pretty good launcher, Doomseeker. Use its Create Game to set everything up and click Play Offline instead of Start Server.

[Spectre01]

mecheye said:

The super secret in Rocket Zone II causes extreme frame drops when using Project Brutality.

Oddly enough, in the un-Vaccinmated version using PB's compatibility patch there is no lag in that area.
Was there a script that prevented that from happening in the original?

The compatibility patch apparently fixed some of the huge frame drops PB had on some maps. For instance, map07 was unplayable with PB for whatever reason when I tried it a while back. As far as I know, it only works with the regular edition though.

[mecheye]

rileymartin said:

The compatibility patch apparently fixed some of the huge frame drops PB had on some maps. For instance, map07 was unplayable with PB for whatever reason when I tried it a while back. As far as I know, it only works with the regular edition though.

Alright cool, thanks!

[skillsaw]

rileymartin said:

The compatibility patch apparently fixed some of the huge frame drops PB had on some maps. For instance, map07 was unplayable with PB for whatever reason when I tried it a while back. As far as I know, it only works with the regular edition though.

I wonder what the root cause of the slower frame rates were? On MAP07, my wild guess would be something to do with the gigantic concentration of barrels hidden in closets that are used to kill the archviles when you press the switch beyond the YK door. I wonder if PB also has slowdown issues on MAP03 of Ancient Aliens where a similar setup with enormous numbers of out-of-map-bounds barrels killing monsters is also used.

Not sure why the MAP27 secret would have problems (other than the fact that there is a large number of monsters on screen) or how that could be fixed.

[Spectre01]

skillsaw said:

I wonder if PB also has slowdown issues on MAP03 of Ancient Aliens where a similar setup with enormous numbers of out-of-map-bounds barrels killing monsters is also used.

I just tested PB on AA map03 in one of the newer test builds of GZDoom and didn't experience anything strange, aside from PB sprites needing .png conversion to work with the new palette.

[Officer D]

I'm happy to see this. Even though the level design was visually very pleasant, the custom sprites weren't appealing to me and put me off of playing Valiant for the longest time. Currently I am playing this with the D4D gameplay mod (Monster type - original Doom) and sofar the balancing seems ok. Thank you for this.

[Albertoni]

skillsaw said:

I wonder if PB also has slowdown issues on MAP03 of Ancient Aliens where a similar setup with enormous numbers of out-of-map-bounds barrels killing monsters is also used.

Since we're on this subject, Trailblazer makes my computer cry out for mercy in AA's MAP20, Illuminati Revealed. No idea why, no other mods I've tried had a problem there.

And yeah, MAP03 had a slight slowdown in that part for me when using PB (but my PC is a bit crap.)

[Spectre01]

Albertoni said:

Trailblazer makes my computer cry out for mercy in AA's MAP20, Illuminati Revealed.

Do you mean map18, because map20 is Code.

[Albertoni]

Yeah, sorry. I just thought it was 20 for some reason. Glad I posted the name. >_>