New STF faces (bearded badass and tough babe)

[Pencil of Doom]

Looks great and badass, i would definetly love see this in the next build.
Also there should be a HNK mod for Zdoom with this faceset.

[raymoohawk]

just placed the pull request

[MrFlibble]

I certainly like the red hair version better! :)

[Cire]

My friend did this face:
Feel free to use it if you happen to find a use for it!

[raymoohawk]

i did commit it as a pull request, but it wasn't merged. i think it was #230. it doesnt appear in my forked because i deleted my fork and only did another one a few days ago

[andrewj]

Sorry, I checked the closed pull requests but did not see it the first time.

Project leader did not like it, and the project leaders have the final say on everything, though maybe a poll would help?

[raymoohawk]

to be fair he worded as "for now" so maybe he wants it to be reworked a bit?

[MrFlibble]

Project leader? You mean fraggle? Didn't he say a while ago that

fraggle said:

In the other thread I described Freedoom as "an art project run by programmers". That's the key part that I think needs to change. The artists should be running the show and we, the programmers, should be offering up our talents to help them achieve their goals.

Doesn't seem a lot like being run by artists if the artists get their work rejected without as much as an explanation of why such a decision was made..?

[raymoohawk]

lets not derai this into bashing the maintainers. i think the current leadership should reamain. most of the people who could be interested in taking up the project clearly dont understand the projects goal, or outright disagree with the goal and would make the game a visual clone of doom

[Gez]

MrFlibble said:

Project leader? You mean fraggle?

No, because fraggle is not the project leader.

The project leader is chungy, and a quick check on the github project would have told you it's not fraggle who closed the PR.

It would also have shown you an explanation was given, by the way. Feel free to dislike this explanation, but it's one.

[Varis Alpha]

i like the touched-up hairy dude myself. not really feeling that ambiguous gender guy, though. he looks a bit too silly, like a really excited band leader or something.

[MrFlibble]

raymoohawk said:

lets not derai this into bashing the maintainers. i think the current leadership should reamain.

I'm not trying to "bash" anyone, but I'm quite concerned with the fact that Maz Hades is obviously trying to improve his STB face since Kulak was rejected, however the reason for rejection doesn't give pretty much any hint at would could be changed to increase the chances of approval of the next version.

Also personally I'm not liking the idea that while many people here liked Kulak, it got vetoed apparently solely because it doesn't fit the aesthetic preferences of someone who is simply in power to reject a submission. I mean, if chungy liked the Kulak face, he wouldn't reject it, right?

If you think it's an okay thing, may I remind you of the current situation with Sodaholic's pistol. Many people here liked it but it was rejected because one of the maintainers found it unfitting. Sometime later the same maintainer changed his mind and greenlighted the pistol. However, it's been a month since then, and the new sprite is not yet in the game. Maybe Sodaholic just missed Doctor_Nick's post giving approval to this submission, maybe there are other reasons, but at any rate the inclusion of a valid submission has stalled for no real reason.

I'm worried that the very same thing is happening to Maz Hades's work. You know that saying which goes, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I don't think that there are any real problems with the first finished version of the Kulak face. It perfectly fits the new sidebar, it represents a heroic ("action") character and it is completely different from Doomguy's face. Also it should be noted that attempts to improve the face based on feedback from those who did not like it were not successful.

There is also another consideration that I hope you will agree with. Even if an art asset eventually gets replaced and will not end up in the final version of the game, as long as it is a complete resource it is still usable by other people for mods or completely new games etc. I'm very fond of the idea that Freedoom should be such a resource for everything 2.5D first-person games, and ideally every complete resource should be at least attic'd if not used in the current builds. That logic dictates that both Kulak and Kilmister should be pulled into the project. It can be then decided upon what face is more fitting, but completely rejecting submissions is not a way to go in my opinion.

[esselfortium]

The leader of a project should have the final say over what goes into the project and what fits their vision for it. If your vision for the project is in conflict with theirs, you could always start a new project built around your own preferences.

[Blastfrog]

MrFlibble said:

Maybe Sodaholic just missed Doctor_Nick's post giving approval to this submission, maybe there are other reasons, but at any rate the inclusion of a valid submission has stalled for no real reason.

It's more depression and laziness on my part than anything else.

[MrFlibble]

esselfortium said:

The leader of a project should have the final say over what goes into the project and what fits their vision for it.

This is generally true but in the case of Fredoom I agree with fraggle (quoted above) that the artists should have more say. The recent improvement in quality is solely thanks to the artists' efforts, and not because of selective picking of assets by project maintainers.

Maz Hades said in a post above that he did not receive any feedback that could serve as guidelines for further improvement of his submission. If the Kulak face doesn't match the "vision of the project leaders", at least it could be specified in what way it is not fitting.

Sodaholic said:

It's more depression and laziness on my part than anything else.

I'm very sorry to hear that! I actually suspected it but did not want to voice my concerns. However since you admit this I'll have to also stress that rejections such as discussed here don't exactly add to a positive motivation among the contributors.

[raymoohawk]

ok calm down fibble, i want the kulak face in freedoom as well, but take into consideration that maintainers like chungy are very busy people who joined the workforce years ago. they dont always have as much time and the rejection may have been done in a hurry. i'll talk with chungy to get some feedback about the statusbar face so that maz will know what direction to take it.

[MrFlibble]

OK, cool. I'm sorry, I'm getting overactive sometimes. All this can certainly be resolved in a peaceful manner, and I know everyone's busy with lots of projects.

No offence meant to anyone in my recent posts, I just voiced some concerns, and hopefully a solution will be found that everybody is happy with.

[Blastfrog]

I liked the original bearded one with a visible neck. I don't like the redesign.

[RTC_Marine]

Maz Hades said:

http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/c22a/l6r944va66j8au4zg.jpg
Thoughts?

Looks good :) he reminds me of our (NZ) soldier Willie Apiata

[Jaxxoon R]

So seems a bit weird that an asset that's been generally well received has been up and rejected by the archive maintainer because it smells funny. Even though from an objective standpoint it serves its function far better than the current not!doomguy, if only because this new one at the very least doesn't look like a bootleg Doomguy.

[Maz Hades]

1, you're welcome
2, thanks :) more people wanting positive change is always welcome

[dew]

Maz Hades said:

1, the current face is based on Karl Urban and we don't have his permission to use his likeness

Serious question: how bullshit is this claim? Is this just a flimsy excuse to do away with the old hudface?

And if it's actually a legit concern (which I have a hard time to accept), why create a very obvious Lemmy Kilmister likeness?

edit: Furthermore, the Kulak face is very much Marvel's Hercules.

[Pencil of Doom]

Maz Hades said:

Here's the faces I've made so far
http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/0387/0pr0at4d8xyq03zzg.jpg

That's a nice collection of faces, that one next to the red haired woman reminds me of how BJ would look like if he was to be a female.

[Mechadon]

For what it's worth, I really like the Pavera-head. That gets my vote, although to be honest the current FreeDoom head is really good too and I don't necessarily see it needing to be replaced.

[HorrorMovieRei]

Ooookayy... This was a pretty shitty situation to say the least. Can we atleast keep the pavera/kenshiro face? Should we?

[Marnetmar]

+1 for Paveraface

[Tarnsman]

+1 vote for Pavera face.

[fraggle]

This thread should now be purged of all the Maz Hades shit (who has been banned). I'm truly disgusted and angry that someone would try to sneak something like that into the project.

I haven't checked the Freedoom history and I don't know if Maz Hades has already submitted things to the project; if they have, can someone go through them and check them very carefully? There's a chance there might be other examples which already got through; it would probably make the most sense to purge anything he/she submitted to the project.

EDIT: I missed the fact that the original thread was started by Maz Hades, who proposed the original bearded sprites ("Pavera face"). Chungy has final say, but given the outcome here I'd be disappointed if we do anything other than rejecting this submission with extreme prejudice.

[Jaxxoon R]

Well, that happened.

[pavera]

Eh?

Did I miss something?