"level up" in DOOM game!

[redrage]

I never in a thousand years would have thought anyone would fall for the bs Marty spouted in that interview regarding chara.. I mean "save" progression. Its like nobody in this thread has dealt with PR people before. Non statements and half truths are the norm.

While this thread had a poor start some of the replies to it are just as bad if not worse.

I am not going to look up all the sources but please people.

- You do earn "points" in single player
- You do get to choose where to put them
- This is called character progression in any other game

Apparently its not character progression for Doom 2016 because its such a special snowflake it has its own rules?

Look I am excited for Doom 2016 single player, going to buy it, going to enjoy it. But lets not pretend its more unique then it really is and lets not pretend its not following plenty of modern trends.

• No manual saves
  
• Load outs in mp
  
• Progression system in single player (points)
  
• Progression in mp (hacker modules)
  
• Compass with navigation point to next mission objective
  
• Challenges/achievements (see casual gamer/Conan)
  
• Etc.
  

Now none of that is going to break the game for me or turn the developers or its publisher into Evil Incarnate. But lets not pretend something like a "pure" Doom game exists. As with any other game, it will have its good things, its bad things and how much you care will depend on your personal preferences and expectations.

As to the extend of character progression/customization. Lets see what we know at this point. Keep in mind Game informers video's are also published on Bethesda's official channel. Also Reiner was there after the first non public showcase of Doom participating in the interview with Pete Hines. I.e. Gameinformer has been in bed with bethesda from the start; I think their articles and video's are a pretty good source of info if you keep a critical mind. Lets quote something:

Id didn't want to dive too much into the customization options, but we were told Doom features three tiers of upgrades for the space marine. White chests found in the world contain items called argent cells that allow you to increase your ammo, armor, and health capabilities. The second tier of upgrades are enhancement tokens which are usually found on fallen elite guards. The tokens improve general capability categories such as agility and equipment efficiency. The final...

It has been said before there would be character progression in single player. How much proof do you need?

Also (sorry do not know how to quote):

Hugo Martin recently said this:

"When you encounter a Revenant in Doom, you’ll need to stay on your toes[...]I like to get him to hold still with a well-placed stun shot from the Plasma Rifle. (You need to mod the Plasma Rifle to add a stun effect… so if you’re like me, you’ll invest in this mod early on.)"

If there is -anyone- still able to explain this in any other way then the player choosing which weapon mod to upgrade after saving up enough points I'll help you. The upgrade menu for your weapon mods is in the mp alpha (if you know where to look).

Stop trying to explain everything id shares in accordance with your own preconceived vision with how you wish the game to be. Its ok to be a little critical. Its ok to not like everything about Doom 2016 and still like the overall game, still buy it and still enjoy it.

Stop defending it in such silly ways though. Doom 2016 will have more character progression and weapon upgrade paths then Wolfenstein TNO. So be it. :)

[DooM_RO]

And how is that a bad thing?

[redrage]

I never said it was a bad thing. :) If I gave that impression I expressed myself poorly.

Its just that some people in this thread keep saying its something else then what it really is. Just wanted to give the original poster some air.

Accept it for what it is and make up your own mind about playing the game or not.

For me personally, I don't really care either way. The stuff that is important to me seems to be there. I expect to be enjoying this game in may. :)

[Tetzlaff]

Ah yes, I forget about the argent cells...

So on one hand you have to collect argent cells as credit points to buy new abilities. On the other hand there are these delivery drones that bring you weapon mods. Do they only contain a "blueprint" of the mod and basicly unlock it in a buy menu, but you still have to pay with argent cells? Or are the weapons mods deleivered for free from Space Marine HQ? I can imagine a combination of both.

[AirRaid]

Argent cells do something completely different.

Argent cells alow you to increase your max HP, Max armour or Max Ammo attributes.

Weapon mods add specific new firing modes to weapons, and are unlocked in a different manner.

[Tetzlaff]

In which manner? And do they really need to be unlocked, or can they just be found and are ready to use?

[DooM_RO]

redrage said:

I never said it was a bad thing. :) If I gave that impression I expressed myself poorly.

Its just that some people in this thread keep saying its something else then what it really is. Just wanted to give the original poster some air.

Accept it for what it is and make up your own mind about playing the game or not.

For me personally, I don't really care either way. The stuff that is important to me seems to be there. I expect to be enjoying this game in may. :)

It's not going to be like Far Cry 3 or Dying Light. When people think of bad progression they refer to those kinds of games.

[AirRaid]

Wow I really need to stop pressing edit instead of quote.

Tetzlaff said:

In which manner? And do they really need to be unlocked, or can they just be found and are ready to use?

Anyway, I think both? Details have been pretty sketchy which is why there's a lot of this debate but I think there is some system for choosing mod unlocks (Because Marty mentioned choosing to grab the Stun Shot for the Plasma Gun early), and then you can also find mods via those drones or general pickups as well. But I'm not 100% sure. What I am sure about is that Weapon Mods are seperate from the "character progression" stuff which has been mentioned.

I'll try to lay it out as I see it -

What they have said definitively is that there is no skill tree. No tiers of skills and branching upgrades. There was one badly worded sentence where it mentioned "3 tiers of upgrades", but so far as I can tell they meant to say "3 seperate types of upgrades". One which will let you slightly increase max ammo/health/armour (think the bonus you get when you level up in Skyrim - you can choose to increase HP, stamina or Magicka), one which deals with movement speed etc in a similar incremental way, and the Rune system which is a single, selectable, passive buff (like the cards from Painkiller).

All linear stat boosts which just serve to make the doomguy a bit better at kicking ass as you get through the game.

I think I've explained it as I see it as best as I can.

[redrage]

Look what I stumbled upon on imgur.



Of course no one is saying that it is from Doom4...

But it would fit the comment made by Hugo Martin.

[TheGamePhilosophe]

DooM_RO said:

It's not going to be like Far Cry 3 or Dying Light. When people think of bad progression they refer to those kinds of games.

You don't know that. You're making a huge assumption based on a vague statement from Stratton that you don't "level up a character, you develop a save" which has already been contradicted by a more definite statement from Hugo Martin about investing points into weapon upgrades.

At this point, who's to say that the weapon upgrades are not arranged in a tier system? If Martin has to "invest" points "early" to get the stun mod for the plasma rifle, it's more than possible that means there are gun mods you have to unlock before being able to access it.

EDIT: Just was Redrage's post above. It looks like a pretty strong indication that there is some kind of succession system. The weapon has two mods, and four unlocks each, with each of those probably increasing effectiveness.

[MrHofmann]

redrage said:

...

Stop defending it in such silly ways though. Doom 2016 will have more character progression and weapon upgrade paths then Wolfenstein TNO. So be it. :)

Whatever man, the evidence given fits in perfectly what I'm talking about. And the "character progression" is so primitive that calling it character progression is almost an insult to real character progression, and it looks more primitive than Wolf TNO.

And this:

Jaxxoon R said:

I don't see how finding weapon mods that give you new abilities can be considered leveling up. By that logic, finding weapons in classic Doom is a form of leveling up.

[DooM_RO]

TheGamePhilosophe said:

You don't know that. You're making a huge assumption based on a vague statement from Stratton that you don't "level up a character, you develop a save" which has already been contradicted by a more definite statement from Hugo Martin about investing points into weapon upgrades.

At this point, who's to say that the weapon upgrades are not arranged in a tier system? If Martin has to "invest" points "early" to get the stun mod for the plasma rifle, it's more than possible that means there are gun mods you have to unlock before being able to access it.

EDIT: Just was Redrage's post above. It looks like a pretty strong indication that there is some kind of succession system. The weapon has two mods, and four unlocks each, with each of those probably increasing effectiveness.

Oh so I am the one making assumptions now...

[redrage]

Are you guys seriously going to fight over this?

I expect the weapon mods to be found, either through secrets or set points with drones that give them to you.

The "screenshot" indicates you can upgrade weapon mods individually after you have acquired them through points you earn somehow.

Have fun everyone.

[DooM_RO]

Why are some people so against upgrades? I've always seen them as a natural progression for Doom and years before it was even announced I wanted such a thing.

[Tetzlaff]

For me the upgrades sound really good and I think they will add a little more depth to the game. And they make exploration more worthwile.

[Touchdown]

I sincerely hope this upgrade screen is some kind of a sick joke because that's literally the ugliest one I've ever seen. There's no style to it at all. I want to believe it's a placeholder but one such hope has already been shot down recently.

[MrHofmann]

redrage said:

Look what I stumbled upon on imgur.

http://i.imgur.com/sFb2rS8.jpg

Of course no one is saying that it is from Doom4...

But it would fit the comment made by Hugo Martin.

Nice, BFG has 6 mods. Just as I thought, you have to complete the challenges to get upgrade points. This reminds me of Tony Hawk's Pro Skater when you have a list of tricks and challenges that you have to perform in order to get money to buy new stuff (another reference to skate parks and skateboards). This game is hardcore/horror/action, but at the same time not so serious and arcadey all the way, it's going to be so much fun.

[Tuskin38]

Touchdown said:

I sincerely hope this upgrade screen is some kind of a sick joke because that's literally the ugliest one I've ever seen. There's no style to it at all. I want to believe it's a placeholder but one such hope has already been shot down recently.

It does say Alpha in the top right.

Maybe they found it in the last MP Alpha test, hacked in the menu or something.

[The Civ]

Touchdown said:

I sincerely hope this upgrade screen is some kind of a sick joke because that's literally the ugliest one I've ever seen. There's no style to it at all. I want to believe it's a placeholder but one such hope has already been shot down recently.

Are we seriously at the point where people are going to get THIS pissy over a menu screen, that might not even be final? This is honestly starting to get unbearable.

Either way, I'm pretty sure the grey background will be translucent, and there will be something behind it. Whether it be like a pause screen, still showing the game behind it, possibly an image, or maybe even some kind of screen overlay to make it look like a PDA.

[wheresthebeef]

I rather like that very minimalistic menu. Very simple and easy to read.
I don't need WoW levels of cumbersome crap all over my screen like I'm using an infected computer.

[RaikohZX]

wheresthebeef said:

I rather like that very minimalistic menu. Very simple and easy to read.
I don't need WoW levels of cumbersome crap all over my screen like I'm using an infected computer.

It'll probably have more detail like either a paused screen for a background or maybe that flaming menu stuff, but in terms of the actual menu itself I like the simplistic design too. Fits the computer futuristic factors.

[Touchdown]

That's the thing, PDA in DOOM3 is fine, simple but stylish. This is just a grey background with stock padlocks. It's ugly as hell.

[archvile82]

The Civ said:

Are we seriously at the point where people are going to get THIS pissy over a menu screen, that might not even be final? This is honestly starting to get unbearable.

Either way, I'm pretty sure the grey background will be translucent, and there will be something behind it. Whether it be like a pause screen, still showing the game behind it, possibly an image, or maybe even some kind of screen overlay to make it look like a PDA.

All opinions are valid if reasonable but it does seem some people are finding it hard to pick faults in doom so are now going to the extremes of nit picking.

The amount of people trying to hate or pick holes in the game weather it comes down to a game box art, to 'optional' melee kills, speed and now a menu screen is just wow. I don't think any other game in history has come under this much scrutiny before. I cannot imagine how id and Bethesda feel reading this stuff but I hope for there sakes its a minority opinion.

Even if it is the final menu how long as a player are you going to be in that screen for ? Everything else looks frigging awesome, seriously in my opinion this is looking to be id's best game since quake 2 (I don't include quake 3 as it didn't have a single player campaign).

Just to add I don't know what is so wrong with weapon mods and skill updates, its nothing deep but adds an extra layer to the game. Id even had similar ideas for the original doom with items and characters to choose from but instead went for a arcade shooter experience instead.

[RaikohZX]

archvile82 said:

I don't think any other game in history has come under this much scrutiny before.

Trust me, Doom 4 is just 'big name series getting a modern sequel and a lot of cynical backlash'. Something like Final Fantasy VII Remake due to its circumstances completely dwarfs this with ease, and there's been bigger than both games in the past.

[Touchdown]

The Civ said:

Are we seriously at the point where people are going to get THIS pissy over a menu screen, that might not even be final? This is honestly starting to get unbearable.

archvile82 said:

All opinions are valid if reasonable but it does seem some people are finding it hard to pick faults in doom so are now going to the extremes of nit picking.

That would maybe make some sense if I was one of those cynical haters pissing on this game just because it exists. But I'm not.

After 9 years of waiting I want to enjoy it for what it is. But that doesn't mean I'm going to turn a blind eye on stuff that I don't like, regardless of how insignificant it is to YOU. And if I hate this game once it comes out, I'll gladly nitpick the living hell out of it.

[redrage]

Touchdown said:

But that doesn't mean I'm going to turn a blind eye on stuff that I don't like, regardless of how insignificant it is to YOU.

My dear friend Touchdown,

Nobody with a brain thinks a mockup screen from the alpha test is something to get worked up over. It says "alpha test" in the right corner. Its only likely source was the mp alpha test. Its but ugly, no one in their right mind would ever think of this as being final menu art. The lock icons have their own jpeg compression for fucks sake.

Calm down. Relax. Some of use have been waiting for more then 20 years. Everything is relative. Its just a game.

I discus these things because its fun to me. I like talking with people who share my interest. I don't expect things to change at this point. Its very unlikely to happen this late in development and getting all pissy on some internet forum will have exactly zero effect on anything. Except perhaps the respect people lose for you.

Relax. :)

[Touchdown]

Calm down? Relax? Man, just because I dare to complain about something doesn't mean I'm angry. Don't get so worked up over it.

[DooM_RO]

Touchdown said:

Calm down? Relax? Man, just because I dare to complain about something doesn't mean I'm angry. Don't get so worked up over it.

To be honest, that's what it usually feels like on the Internet.