The DWmegawad Club plays: Hell Revealed

[Demon of the Well]

Regarding the discussion on Plutonia / HR kinship, I reckon the substantive similarities are pretty limited--worlds of stylistic difference between the two in terms of fundamental combat design, to say nothing of things like map traversal or intra-WAD pacing--although it's almost certainly true that the gut-punch attitude towards difficulty that the work of the Casali bros. (and perhaps a scant few others) and Plutonia in particular is fabled for paved the way for things like what we see in Hell Revealed, which just a short time earlier in the game's history would likely have been seen as simply untenable, or at least certainly on that sort of scale. That being said, while generally the two WADs play very differently--Plutonia spites you with precise monster placement designed to keep you off-balance, requiring you to be wary of attacks from all sides and stay on the defensive as you move through enemy territory, whereas in HR more often than not it is you that besieges and harries the staunchly entrenched enemies--there are definitely points of more direct stylistic overlap. One of the most famous of all Plutonia maps, Go 2 It, takes a blown-out version of the layout of "Entryway" and stuffs it to the gills with exaggerated (by period standards) regiments of monsters, such that each discrete area of the old level becomes a hostile hotbed where you need to find a point of vulnerability to take advantage of in order to bring it under control. Once you control one area, it becomes easier and easier to gain control of others (especially since your resource pool eventually gets outlandishly large); and this, really, is precisely the way a great deal of Hell Revealed works, though of course it's generally a lot more punitive about it than any of the few maps in the general style the Casalis ever made. Whether to view the way HR writ large actually plays as a watershed approach to highlighting player resourcefulness and big-picture planning, or simply as one long meat-grinder with a very spotty balance, is of course a subject for Doom-sages and game-philosophers to debate, perhaps with the occasional aid of legal counsel to help keep the peace.

Incidentally, Alfonzo, I assure you my habitual profuse windbaggery is regrettably not so much characteristic of the sunny, idyllic vales of the Liberal Arts, but rather of the cold, tenebrous pits of Legal Studies. A 'gift' with only sinister and ultimately entropic applications, I'm afraid! ;)

Map 12 -- Great Halls of Fire - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
Witnessing Suitepee as a broken, exhausted, and slightly-more-nihilistic-than-when-he-started man (uh, yet again, I mean....) set me to thinking that another issue many players might take with Hell Revealed is that it has somewhat of a scarcity of 'breather maps.' Map 21 is definitely one, I've seen it argued that 19 is supposed to be one (though I don't personally agree this was really the intention), and map 12 here is one. That's about it....the rest of it is all in the trenches, starting next map. Now, I suppose it's also true that quite a few of the maps are not such a big deal IF you go into them armed with detailed foreknowledge, but of course, a fat lot of good that does first-timers like John, or some of you other fine Club folks. Might be worth developing a taste for C-Rations if you're in it for the long haul....

Anyway, main point about this map is that it's short and easy, arguably even in comparison to some of the E1 maps ala 05 or 09. The opening booby-trap may actually be the most dangerous encounter on offer, though I suppose there are a couple of points where an arch-vile could bottleneck a narrow corridor with a hell noble he can repeatedly resurrect taking point (fairly easy to counter this if you keep your wits about you, though). A lot of the basic HR gameplay tropes are still on display--a fair few 'entrance' fights and the like--but in contrast to map 11, where it was quite possible to repeatedly worsen the odds against yourself if you made the wrong decisions with resource expenditure and/or failed to uncover any of the secrets, in this one most possible setbacks are just a matter of momentary inconvenience at worst, and none of the secrets really matter very much. Supposing you take the least ideal route (from pistol-start) possible, you'll quickly run up against the trio of pain elementals and bevy of cacodemons crowded in and near the YK lava-room beyond the weird blind closet-lift without anywhere near enough ammo to kill them, but in that case all you need to do is turn tail and bugger off to the friendly wooden kindergarten-maze to the east for a while, where sooner or later you'll become adequately tooled up. The map's signature fight is of course the timed Baron-gauntlet tied to the SSG (and this 'timed wave' idea really IS something historically noteworthy, one of the very first takes on a concept that's central to modern high-choreography/high-chaos action), but if you're so inclined you can just grab the gun and stockpile of shells and leave before the first fellow even has a chance to catch a glimpse of you, no strings attached. A habitual massmurderer myself, Cynical's notion of leaving HR maps with huge numbers of monsters still alive is something I haven't really thought of before as regards the mapset's 'zone of influence' battle style (maybe many of the zones are actually irrelevant for an enterprising player?), but I suppose this map's a pretty damned obvious proof of concept as far as that possibility goes.

Aesthetically, there's nothing of note here, save perhaps the music track, which IIRC is the only one of the RoTT tracks to never repeat at least once. I suppose one could try to make the analysis that this is actually supposed to be a 'sequel' to map 11 as far as general theme goes (i.e. it's another entirely subterranean setting), but to be frank I think that is literally nothing but a total coincidence in this case. Nothing remarkably ugly or striking to make mention of at any point, though I guess it's not hard to tell that like map 11 this is another of Yonatan's very early maps, with more Catacombs/Wolf3D 'architecture' and a somewhat on-again/off-again interest in lighting contrast.

It goes by quick, it's fairly painless, and frankly it doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things. Merely a prelude to what many consider the first 'proper' HR map in #13, up next.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP13: Last Look at Eden
78% kills, 0/3 secrets

Ugh, this map. I went into it having already taken a look-see since other people had mentioned it, so I knew from a pistol start I would need to just high-tail it past the first two areas. Took a few attempts before the chaingunner RNG let me pass, but fine. The main courtyard isn't so bad, lots of opportunities to create infighting and snipe the Arch-Viles which is fun. I do wish the shotgun shell boxes were more out of the way though, as I kept picking them up by mistake while running around. The yellow door area is pretty good too. The red door cage trap... nope. Had already used up the green armor by that point and just couldn't get past it without IDQQD. Really needed a new armor vest in there or something.

Anyways, had some more fun with the revs/vile behind the blue door, and then... stuck. Hit the switch, what does it do? Open up DB2, apparently it opens up the exit teleporter back at the start. Okay, time to grind back through all the monsters I left behind... except that door doesn't open. What the hell? Oh, apparently the metal column in the blue key room is actually a lift revealing a teleport back to the start. Wonderful. So yeah, some interesting ideas here and there, but overall just too damn stingy and difficult in places to be fun. And that's even with completely ignoring the idea of trying to max it, which would just be a bore given the only weapon provided is the SSG and all of 20 rockets.

[Spectre01]

Map 13

First thing I noticed was the BGM being the same as Valiant map 15, which also reminded me how much better that map and the wad as a whole is than HR.

Almost no ammo for any of the stronger weapons, so even playing continuous I had to resort to SSG'ing through hordes of meat and running circles like an idiot in the Mancubi area to get as much infighting as possible. It's also a prime example as to why I don't play pistol start unless the text file states very clearly that the maps are designed and balanced around it. "Beatable" with pistol start and "designed for" are two very different things. Also, that has got to be the fruitiest sky texture I've seen in Doom. What atmosphere were they going for with all that pink?

[Budoka]

The mood in HR to me feels very dream-like, although not in the A.L.T sense. @Magnusblitz: if you look carefully, there's a hidden Megaarmor and a visible but tricky to reach Plasma Gun on MAP13.

MAP14: City in the Clouds

So. In this Downtown remix (pretty cool, a cityscape in the middle of the sky), You're exposed to firepower from rather strong monsters on all sides. To reach any weapon, you'll have to weave past monsters you can't fight yet, and upon grabbing any of the immediately available ones, you'll trigger yet more monsters (that your current firepower doesn't match). on top of that, the spatial progression itself is a puzzle you have to solve.

I did beat this map UV pistol start, but it took me one hour and I couldn't quite get 100% kills. In spite of which, I like it a lot. None of it is a problem for Belial, anyway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3iFRXIo7NY

Yeah, just like that.

[Alfonzo]

Demon of the Well said:

Incidentally, Alfonzo, I assure you my habitual profuse windbaggery is regrettably not so much characteristic of the sunny, idyllic vales of the Liberal Arts, but rather of the cold, tenebrous pits of Legal Studies. A 'gift' with only sinister and ultimately entropic applications, I'm afraid! ;)

You have my sympathies. Never change, though!

[mouldy]

MAP14 - "City in the Clouds" by Yonatan Donner

This map is seared into my memory, I'm not even sure if I ever attempted it from pistol start either. Its a real bastard, giving you nothing and then making you earn every weapon in a series of mini death-buildings while an army of snipers rains death upon you outside. Well it doesn't give you nothing, actually it gives you a free megasphere and invul to use how you see fit. The biggest chore was dealing with the 2 viles guarding the chaingun, with only a shotgun to hit them with and a surrounding swarm of hellknights, it took some tedious peekaboo plinking to get one of them down, then i just waited til the other was distracted and grabbed his treasure and ran. I saved the invul for the rocket launcher room, and with hindsight I probably should have done that before the chaingun so that I could nuke those viles. If there was an SSG in this map I didn't see it, and I only noticed the plasma rifle after I had unlocked the exit, there was still plenty to kill but I wasn't sticking around.

Unfriendly though it is, this is one of the maps in HR that I like, since it give you some degree of choice on how you want to tackle it and plenty of space outside for running wild.

[Paul977]

Another pair of things I forgot to mention about map 13: I like the architecture of the first rooms especially the second large room with the terracing style.
The ambush with the revenants and arch-vile at the beginning, despite the difficult, remain a memorable situation and I think that finishing this map for first time on UV will "forge" for the next hard maps.

MAP14: City in the Clouds

Architecturally I prefered the previous map (generally I don't like city map, with some exceptions). This map is considered very hard in the infopack, but, amazingly, I had a lot less trouble to complete it: only died 5-6 times (I don't use saves). The presence of the megasphere, megarmor, invulnerability and enough ammo to clean the exterior of the buildings helped me there.

[NuMetalManiak]

for the record I don't defend MAP18 at all in the wad. it's my absolute most hated one for sure, other than maybe MAP32 but I can skip that one. it's arch-vile usage that bugs me on both of those maps.

MAP14 City in the Clouds

That last level was pretty tough, but this? Oar mai gerd, screw this one. I pretty much have to get rid of enemies all around the place, from the arachnotrons at top and any window enemies (that's what I hated about the OG Downtown) and then most of the goodies are of course inside the buildings heavily guarded. A few tight cyberdemon battles around key areas too. One thing I always forget about is that 3x3 grid where all the teleporters are, and that one is the exit. Some of these lead to secrets. Certainly an action-packed map of the sandbox variety, very careful playing ensures a good survival for me here.

If anyone can find a better way to reach the BFG secret then tell me. I think one of the sides is marked impassable (either as an oversight or a really devious trick).

[Paul977]

Getsu Fune said:

If anyone can find a better way to reach the BFG secret then tell me. I think one of the sides is marked impassable (either as an oversight or a really devious trick).

Saw a demo from Xit-Vono. He straferun from up the wall where arachnotrons are placed directly to the BFG.

[antares031]

MAP15 - Gates to Hell
ZDoom, UV - Pistol Start, KIS(%): 100/66/100

Don't forget to find a secret before you run into the teleporter. This level at least has a mercy to give me a shotgun and SSG with plenty of shells. There are lots of portals to proceed the level, and keep in mind that every portals have unique decorations to help you figuring out. Not a bad level, I must say. Even the arch-vile encounters are not that harsh. Just don't forget to find a secret exit.



MAP31 - The Descent
ZDoom, UV - Pistol Start, KIS(%): 100/100/100

In ZDoom, it is possible to activate the descending switch even if you didn't activate the previous switch with a gunfire. This will make you to descend to the end with no monster teleportation. But you won't get any weapons if you did that(Besides, you're gonna fire your weapon anyway as soon as you reach the bottom). Make sure to find secrets to get extra ammo. If not, you're going to have a bad time with pistol start. Finally, kill the cyberdemons first before you grab keys to get a safe point against the second wave.



MAP32 - Mostly Harmful
ZDoom, UV - Pistol Start, KIS(%): 86*/87/100

PROTIP: Move one step backward when you start the game to make it easier to beat. This level may seems harsh and cruel, but this level is just a BFG simulator. This level has a mercy to give you a plenty of supplies, including countless medikits and rockets, large cell packs, and even megaspheres. So don't be afraid, and just grab a big gun to spam. Although cleaning the same copy-pasted key rooms over and over was not a good taste. Not to mention that you have a chance of getting telefragged by unexpected spawn cubes.

[NuMetalManiak]

Paul977 said:

Saw a demo from Xit-Vono. He straferun from up the wall where arachnotrons are placed directly to the BFG.

That's pretty much what I was trying to do, except it took me loads of tries to pull off. I remember hearing that one of the linedefs is marked impassable making it even harder to reach, though I can't remember which one it was. certainly makes reaching the BFG way more difficult to reach than already seems.

[Cynical]

mouldy said:

The biggest chore was dealing with the 2 viles guarding the chaingun, with only a shotgun to hit them with and a surrounding swarm of hellknights, it took some tedious peekaboo plinking to get one of them down, then i just waited til the other was distracted and grabbed his treasure and ran. I saved the invul for the rocket launcher room, and with hindsight I probably should have done that before the chaingun so that I could nuke those viles. If there was an SSG in this map I didn't see it, and I only noticed the plasma rifle after I had unlocked the exit, there was still plenty to kill but I wasn't sticking around.

Your hindsight is correct. Better still would have been to pacifist-troll your way into the Rocket Launcher (which lets you get it without using the invul), and then using the invul to rampage your way to the blue key and chaingun.

Any tedium in this one is self-created!

@DOTW - if you want to see an example of the kind of playing that leads me to very low kill-tallies in HR, go back a few pages and watch my map 14 demo.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP12: Great Halls of Fire

Similarly incoherent aesthetically to the preceding map, with a smaller footprint that reduces the branching layour to a simple hupspoke dance. The core of the gameplay here lies in recovering each of your weapons from the clutches of the demonic fiends who guard them down each particular branch of the layout. The spider mastermind feels like a binary progress check; either you go down that lift with enough ammunition for a BFG shot or two and/or enough health to weather its chaingun fire until you get up in its face, and emerge from its subterranean cell at 200% health and armour, or your adventure ends here. In that respect it's probably the point of the map with the smallest number of possible solutions.

MAP13: Last Look at Eden

If this is what's left of Eden than we're in worse shape than I thought. A big level of spacious outdoor arenas, with most of the combat concentrated in and around the largest northern area which serves as a hub to three locked encounters; the lock-in room to the west, and the big descending pathway from the start to the main garden, are both pretty memorable visually. You've got lots of options for the big arena, whether it's door-camping to the south, running around to stir up infighting, letting out specific packs of demons at specific times to add to the general chaos... it's fun and flexible.

MAP14: City in the Clouds

A big and ambitious city level in a surreal cloudscape setting, though the whimsy of it is somewhat undermined by the map's defaulting to square/rectangular buildings and right-angle corners. I bailed out of this one with the 'bonus' cyberdemons in the east and southwest buildings still standing; the early portion of the map with its ongoing dance against free-roaming packs of hellspawn did a lot to leave me feeling drained. Shotgun shells are in abundant supply and much of the combat occurs in close quarters. You've got a megasphere and invulnerability to pick up when you most need them, or when you simply want a chance to take things easy in the face of a level of pressure that's generally quite high.

[mouldy]

Cynical said:

Any tedium in this one is self-created!

Yeah fuck me for not knowing the map in advance

[Cynical]

mouldy said:

Yeah fuck me for not knowing the map in advance

No need to know it. Play without saves (so you don't save yourself into a bad spot without realizing it), and you can generally realize "hmm, this map made by speedrunners is getting awfully draggy, maybe I should try a different strategy!"

(It works on most of the second half of HR. There's a few sad exceptions, but they are just that -- exceptions.)

[Magnusblitz]

MAP14: City in the Clouds
54% kills, 2/5 secrets

I can see why some people love this map, though I certainly think it needs to be approached from that "puzzle box" point of view, assuming that 1) it's got a lot of obstacles that are meant to be figured out how to get around rather than killed, and 2) it'll take a lot of trial and error and isn't something that's meant to be beaten on the first try (which is something I think a lot of modern players believe in). I think what makes it work is that there are actually tools provided for the player to use (megasphere, invulnerability sphere) and lots of space to run around in.

I ended up using stealth to grab the RL and then the invulnerability sphere to grab the blue key and chaingun (though stupidly wasted time blasting through the line of spectres instead of just jumping from the RL) and riding an AV blast out of the blue key area. Found the yellow key no problem but took me awhile to find the switch that raised the bridge to the red key.

[dobu gabu maru]

MAP14: Well this… sure was a map. At first I was relieved to have an open field to practice some circular jogging in, but a deep fear soon gripped me—I had no weapons. Despite pilfering the RL from the sound-activated caco trap, I could not find an SSG and was left to my own devices for the rest of the map. Like MAP13, it’s a level made difficult by its lack of armaments, but that doesn’t mean it was fun to play—the building that houses the bridge switch in particular was just nasty and spiteful. I eventually beat it but I didn’t feel accomplished doing so… it was like brute-forcing the solution to a puzzle.

I can see why Cynical thinks it's wonderful, I just really don't share the sentiment. I also kinda feel refinement trumps originality, which is why I prefer everything Plutonia/HR/Sunder inspired compared to the classic OGs themselves.

[Cynical]

dobu gabu maru said:

I also kinda feel refinement trumps originality, which is why I prefer everything Plutonia/HR/Sunder inspired compared to the classic OGs themselves.

I would agree that quality trumps originality, but I don't feel that most of HR's successors are as good as Donner's maps in the second half of HR itself. It's not just a nostalgia thing, either -- I had played AV, Scythe, Scythe 2, Kama Sutra, and DVII before I ever played HR, and aside from DVII, I'd say that each of those only has, at most, two maps that can compete with HR 14, 15, 16, 17, 19, 22, 23, 24, 25, and 26 in terms of how well they play.

I've been playing the good maps (that is, the above listed ones) in HR, and, for the sake of comparison to the most commonly-listed bedfollow, some of the high points in KS as well, and it's really highlighted everything that's been confusing to me about the response HR14 has gotten. The 25-29 stretch of maps maps in KSutra, which everyone raved about, are just worse (and, in the case of KS26 [strangely, the most praised one], outright bad) versions of HR maps, aside from map 29. Meanwhile, the best map in HR has gotten a "meh, sucks" response. Really surprising.

[Urthar]

When you ask for PWAD recommendations on somewhere like Reddit, Hell Revealed is invariably mentioned alongside classics such as Alien Vendetta, Scythe and Memento Mori. Does it deserve the recognition? Speed Runners seem to favour it, and the WAD is definitely more fun if you evade and skip encounters, provoke infighting, and generally keep moving. For completionists on the other hand, it must be a tedious chore to plow through.

I'll be playing it in ZDoom (due to some of the map hacks that can glitch in hardware renderers,) Hurt Me Plenty and continuous play with saves.

MAP01 Into The Gate
A short map and not offensively bad to look at for it's age. Notable for the slow teleport and pinky set-ups. Both seem to encourage you to run past and evade (if you're me or have previous knowledge of the map.) Showing the frozen pinkies to player before they're released is an interesting feature, along with the cacodemon through the exterior window who can be ignored entirely.

MAP02 Gateway Lab
Some large open places to run and gun, a predictable series of confined ambushes , and some mild murder in the dark. The final switch that raises the stairs to the exit is horribly placed. I must have ran past it a dozen times on my initial play through.

MAP03 The Dumpster
A short switch hunt, that could get tedious in a large map, but works well enough here. Some nasty combats, in awkward spaces that might be quite lethal if the opposition were any tougher, or the resources were less plentiful.
Speaking of which, I'm already maxed out on shotgun ammo at quite an early stage.

MAP04 The Garden Terminal
This seems to be the first map, where the monster block lines are quite explicit. I guess the Hell Knights are intended as obstacles rather than threats, still they go down fast enough with a SSG either way.
Just realised that I've picked up a rocket launcher at some point. Do I save ammo for later maps, or randomly gib zombiemen for giggles? It's a tough call.
Still no idea how to obtain that BFG.

MAP05 Core Infection
And... first death to a Baron placed at the bottom of a steep staircase.
The layout of this map is horrible. Even having played it before, I find myself wandering in search of an exit after killing everything, and then have to wander back through the level again to reactivate the lift after using it to grab the Plasma Rifle.

MAP06 The Round Crossroads
There's a fairly nice rhythm to this map, and since I'm overflowing with ammo at this point I can burn everything down without getting bogged down by the increasing amount of Barons and heavier opposition.
I notice I'm beginning to use the quick save at this point.

MAP07 Arachnophobia
You get a Plasma Rifle and generous resources at the start of this map on medium difficulty, so it's reasonably quick. Or at least it would be, if you didn't have to mop up the spiders in the leg sections.
When I first played this map, I quite liked the spectacle of it all, but it doesn't stand up as well on subsequent playthroughs. I imagine a modern mapper would choreograph things more tightly.

MAP08 The Jail
Quite a few chainsaw opportunities on this one, which I appreciate since I'm not much of a puncher, and no shortage of high density gib targets for gratuitous rocket use.
The abrupt ending takes me by surprise again. Really was that it? Oh well, no complaints.

MAP09 Knockout
Ah yes, I remember this one.
So even through the map is named “Knockout” and there's a Berserk Pack right at the start of this level, it never occurred to me on my initial playthrough to attempt to punch my way through it. Because like a lot of players I always assumed the berserk effect ended once the red haze worn off. (In fact, I originally thought the berserk effect was a temporary curse for getting a free 100 health.)
So I'll be repeating my original strategy, arrived at by no small amount of trial and error, of running past everything as quickly as possible and provoking as much infighting as possible.
HMP grants you a Plasma Rifle at the start so cutting a path through the initial hordes works pretty well, I grab the invulnerability and circle through the Mancubi courtyard, drawing their fire onto the never ending imps, and whisk through the rest of the map. By the time I get back to the exit, I'm feeling pretty pleased with myself, until I realise I completely forgot to pick up the red key...
Oh well, it didn't turn out too badly in the end, and the map is definitely fun when you throw caution to the wind and go hell for leather through it.

MAP10 Chambers Of War
Second death of the evening, this time due to nefarious door closing incidents.
Yeah, this one's a bit of a SSG grind. Though to be fair I could have ducked into a side room to grab a ton of plasma cells and burned down things quicker. I would certainly have liked to have seen more rocket ammo.
The hedge maze is an oddity. I thought in software rendering the spectres might be better camouflaged, but they appeared as bleeding obvious as before.
Another abrupt ending, but no complaints as I was more than happy to move on this time.

MAP11 Underground Base
Now the quick saving begins in earnest.
Well the good news is there's no shortage of ammo, and for the first two thirds of the map there's plenty of heath and armour knocking around. Diving in and cutting a path into the interior works pretty well, so by the time you return to the starting area those initial hordes melt beneath heavy plasma fire and rockets.
Next stop the four towers, which is less intimidating than it seemed the first time around. I was tempted to dive past the Cyberdemon guarding the long hallway to the BFG arena, but I was still well stocked and took the safer option of removing him.
The platforms to the arena require a strafe jump which is irritating, but after that there is a glorious opportunity to press the rocket launcher trigger and damn well keep it pressed until everything is dead. I am perhaps a simple minded person, but such things amuse me.
In the final part of the map, heath kits suddenly became thin on the ground, just when I really began to need them. Thus I was much relieved to finally stagger to the exit on 50% health, where a thoughtful Imp held the door open for me. To my shame and regret I shot him dead.

MAP12 Great Halls Of Fire
One of the poorest maps so far, very sparse and primitive even by the standard of the WAD. At least you won't be stuck here for long, but this feels very much like filler.

MAP13 Last Look At Eden
So a quick look at my status bar reveals maximum shells and bullets, a moderate amount of rockets and meagre supplies of cells. Let's see how this goes.
Diving past the initial parts of the map and provoking fights along the way seems the way to go once again. I probably held back too much and should have headed straight for the switch that raises the Cyberdemon in the main courtyard, but the Spider Mastermind did ample service.
Interestingly, the blue key cage - a notoriously unfair trap in UV - actually pays just fine in HMP.

MAP14 City In The Clouds
On HMP Continuous this map is a pretty straight forward rumble. All the dick moves I vaguely remember from UV are toned down, though a surprise Cyberdemon once again caught me off guard. A decent enough map, with plenty of run and gun.

---

In summary, Hell Revealed is very much a product of it's time. The sparse visuals hint that frame-rate alone was a bigger factor than visplanes or seg-limits in it's construction.

Game play is fairly loose and experimental, and the heavy use of monster blocks indicate the authors were often thinking of monster placements in terms of obstacles rather than direct threats.

So far, most of it's been reasonably fun to run through, and that's probably how the creators wanted you to play it.

[Cynical]

My (possibly) final post on the Map14 grinding topic: for those that think that "taking down high-HP enemies with the shotgun" is an inevitability in the map no matter what, I present you this: http://www.mediafire.com/download/4o4cai7ymy51vlo/hr14noshottie.lmp

I suck, so there's more scrounging for health than I'd like, as well as a bit of indecision later on (first because I grab the blur sphere on accident, then because I'm not certain what to do about the last two Barons in my current situation, until I decide that my best option is to just YOLO it and go in there), but I think it makes my point clearly.

[Naan]

MAP09 - "Knockout" by Yonatan Donner - Almost UVMax on second try with saves...

... Except I died to the archvile right at the end I foolishly thought I could get him by punching it instead of using the 30 or so shells I still had.

Anyway, this map is much simpler than I initialy thought (for the same reasons as Mouldy's I figure, and interestingly had the same progression line, RK before YK) as it is very generous with life supply (even with the megasphere in the arachnotron room I didn't find a way to get to), and, well, once you get the punching style, it's just a matter of time cleaning stuff.

This map also feature some sort of triple secret with 3 secret areas at the same place which is odd as it is the only secret area, but could be used to mark some sort of secret ranking. Those crushers were amusing rather than useful. And it seems designwise the maps looks better and better, outside of the red key room HOM. Hell Revealed was probably made during a rather long time period when detailing tricks were found during its making.

[TheOrganGrinder]

FWIW, as someone who's playing the WAD on HMP continuous and is not remotely in the same ballpark as Cynical in terms of either playing skill or gaming philosophy, I'm finding the discussion about the merits of the WAD in general and MAP14 in particular to be fascinating; there's a lot I can learn from perspectives that I don't necessarily share.

[Pirx]

Magnusblitz said:

Barons are generally poor enemies because they combine high hit points with low threat level. They take a lot of punishment (5 rockets or SSG blasts) but they move relatively slowly and only throw one easily-avoidable fireball. Some map makers can make them more dangerous (such as putting them in close quarters where their quick and damaging melee attack can shine) but such uses are few and far between. The way they're usually used, they're just imps that are far more boring to kill.

because of this. (well, that's the view of many players, but generally i found myself agreeing with magnusblitz on many things about various maps during the club's playthroughs)
i use berserk on barons whenever i can, simply because i find them a waste of good rockets or plasma.

which leads us the the next 2 maps here, as yonatan apparently likes barons even in large numbers, and while they can be threatening in close quarters due to their high hp, that doesn't make them less annoying.


MAP13 - "Last Look at Eden" by Yonatan Donner

i can understand why some are frustrated with this map, it's one of those maps that have to be known beforehand and played in a certain way, at least from pistol start, which is very different from continuous. shotgunning the first nobles is slow and immediately ruined by the first archvile, the chaingunner courtyard is suicide (you can grab a blue armor here though, nicely hinted at by the missing support beam), so just run through and into the large arena, where many foes will readily infight. there's shells by the boxes, scattered around, but the more powerful guns are in those 4 bunkers, with enemies sitting right on them so they're hard to grab. rockets are indeed better saved for the cage trap (which is more plain circlestrafing once the chaingunners are dead, but with them is mostly a question who starts shooting first). oh yeah, i had watched gggmork's demo some time ago and seen that trick how to keep the door open. i found the map pretty enjoyable, despite some chaingunner-induced swearing. the red sky is how i remember hell revealed mostly, and the music fits the frantic action perfectly.


MAP14 - "City in the Clouds" by Yonatan Donner

yup, it's right that this is a puzzle map. you have to know how to get your guns, as you're again with only a shotgun against heavy meat bags guarding everything. luckily there's plenty of demos to see what the best method is, as i'm really bad at large open maps where you run in any direction and see how far you get, and don'T have time to experiment all day, unfortunately. the maze part wasn'T my thing, i'm more at home with the run and gun play style. still, it took me a while to know where to go, because with limited weapons in the beginning (no ssg, how is that?) you'll only run into more opposition every time you grab something. cool setting with the floating city.

[T-Rex]

Back again to pick up where I left off with HR. Episode 2, so we're in for more tougher maps and improvement in level design. Here we go.

Map12: Great Halls of Fire (Yonatan Donner)
101% kills, 100% items, 100% secrets
Time: 07:28

Slightly easier than Map11, but still challenging enough to keep you on your toes, and just like Underground Base, this is yet another catacomb map with Wolf 3D-ish/RotT-esque architecture, while still having some height varieties. I like this map, even if it's yet another average one. My strategy for the section with the barons coming out of lowering walls is to not wait for them, but grab the super shotgun first, then as the walls lower, race back up the stairs, deal with the hidden pain elemental behind the fireplace and then take care of the arch-vile guarding the unmarked switch. Doing that, and already a few barons would have already been looking for you when you go back to them. Watch out for the arachnotrons at the western area of the starting point and then there's the northern section to take care of. I save the BFG for the next two arch-viles and the spider mastermind, and then the end with the cyberdemon and hell knights. Sometimes it helps releasing the arch-vile so that when he gets hurt by the splash damage of the cyberdemon's rockets, he'll attack him with all the other hell knights I gladly make infight with the cyberdemon. Overall, a decent map to start off the second episode, and the music "Run Like Smeg" from Rise of the Triad helps to keep me interested. Speaking of Rise of the Triad, there's even a map in Dark War titled "Great Halls of Fire." What a coincidence.

Map13: Last Look at Eden (Yonatan Donner)
100% kills, 92% items, 100% secrets
Time: 09:13

Now this map is absolutely gorgeous, and definitely one of the very best of Hell Revealed. This is where the megawad finally picks up. It has a very hectic start and it never lets up until the very end. Rise of the Triad's "Goin' Down the Fast Way," one of my most favourite tracks from the game, even pumps me up for the high-octane action in this map. Anyway, the map is mostly outdoors, despite starting indoors, with theme and gameplay style that just screams Plutonia and Casali all the way. I eliminate the arachnotrons and caged revenants first before working on the other enemies. After dealing the barons and hell knights, opening the door up the stairs unleashes a revenant which can catch you off guard if you're not expecting it. This is also where you can instigate some monster infighting. Be sure to strafegun to get the secret holding the mega armour, and be careful as you make your way down as you have mancubi in the first row, revenants in the second, and then all those chaingunners teleporting at the bottom. The megasphere helps a lot as well. Then you have the large area that is a hub of sorts, presumably the Garden of Eden. This is where most of the action takes place. I like to let all hell break loose by opening up the bottom left gazebo holding the spider mastermind, then open up the bottom right to let out all the hell knights and barons, and then race for the top right with the pentagram to provoke an epic monster infight. Probably the most effective way to thin out the numbers, and it comes in useful for eliminating the cyberdemon guarding the red key on the central pool, one you've hit the switch at the top stairs in the east quadrant. With the west quadrant, take out the arachnotrons inside the cage first. The imps and demons are only a distraction. Then when you get the blue key inside and the door closes in, more monsters appear from the opened walls. The chaingunners should be the first to go, then deal with the rest. Use the rockets for the revenants at the northern room, sine you want to save enough cells to BFG the cyberdemon when you're teleported back at the start where the exit is finally revealed. Hint: opening the teleporter in the north room also lowers the marble baron cube at the top left area of the garden holding a plasma rifle. So that's Last Look at Eden. Tough as nails, lots of brutal action, but it is extremely fun and the level design is really top notch and beautiful, at least for 1997 standards. Fantastic map and one of my most favourites in Hell Revealed.

Map14: City in the Clouds (Yonatan Donner)
101% kills, 100% items, 100% secrets
Time: 19:10

Map11 was a pretty big map, but this one is enormous! At least up to this point. What contributes to the length of the map is that it's easy to lose track of where you have been, including when trying to find all the secrets, particularly those that are the walls in which the arachnotrons stand on. However, this is actually a pretty well done city map. Much like Odyssey of Noises from Plutonia, this map is a harder version of Doom 2's Downtown, only that true to it's name it's set in the sky, with the fence surrounding the perimeter. It's pretty brutal if you're starting this from scratch, but if you're playing consequently, as I am, you shouldn't have much of a problem. I start with getting the monsters to infight, particularly the cyberdemon with the arachnotrons, then I do the order of getting the goods in the southeast building, then the central east to take care of the baddies first before going for the invulnerability so I can use for the cyberdemon fight that ensues once you obtain the blue key. Right after that, I enter the northeast building to get more goodies while eliminating more hellspawn. I then enter the southwest building now that I have the blue key in my possession, save the megasphere for the next cyberdemon after getting the yellow key. Before entering the yellow door, it is crucial to take out the arachnotrons but once you have the cyberdemon distracted so you can take him down after he's weakened enough by the arachnotron plasma shots, because since getting the BFG secret via straferunning is very tricky to pull off, I use the arch-vile behind the yellow door to make me jump on the platform, though he can be uncooperative at times. When I get on the secret, I take him out, then all the imps, get the red key, go to the red door and hit the switch which lowers the exit platform. Finally, I use the southwest teleport to get the remaining secrets for exiting. It's an exhausting map, what with all the fights and the layout that adds on to the length of the map, and it took me longer than usual (I can beat this map in about 16 - 18 minutes) due to not remembering where to get the arachnotron wall secrets, but I enjoyed it. I also love the track used here, "Excalibur" from Rise of the Triad, also used in Alien Vendetta Map06 and Kama Sutra Map16.

Map15: Gates to Hell (Yonatan Donner)
101% kills, 100% items, 100% secrets
Time: 09:47

This map can be quite confusing if you don't remember where the switches are, but otherwise, it is actually a cool map. I really like the concept around it, you got a series of gates in the main playing area that open when you hit a switch and surrounding the main area is a separate passage that rings around it and it has sections blocked by doors that open once you step into a section you've been teleported to. Each section is dangerous, having some pretty nasty enemies including hell knights and barons on the upper lookouts. A few areas have a small structure that is a locked door, holding an arch-vile guarding a switch which lowers the pillars to the main exit. The switches that lower the pillars to the secret are cleverly hidden. Be sure to shoot in the dark right where you start as it opens a door to a secret area with a switch that will help you reach the secret exit. Lots of ingenuity is required to solve the puzzles. Also, hitting the switches behind the keyed doors will unleash an enemy sequentially, which will be teleported to the nukage pool in the central area. There's four of them, IIRC. I don't remember what they were in the lower difficulties, but on HMP, they're arch-viles, while on UV, they're cyberdemons. It could be just me, but on UV, it could be somewhat an homage to Plutonia's Cyberden, in which one of the four cyberdemons get released into the main area as you progress through the map. I really liked this map, though exactly why they decided to use the bonus screen track from Rise of the Triad, which loops over and over again, like with Map04's track, is beyond me. Then again, I won't take any points off that, because I like pretty much all of RotT's music.

So, I'm already about halfway through Hell Revealed. Entered the secret exit, but that will be for another time. Until then, take care and see you in the secret levels, everybody.

[Steve D]

dobu gabu maru said:

I feel like I’m having some sort of cognitive crisis in realizing that I don’t enjoy early slaughtermaps. It’s rare for me to drop mapsets, but I just couldn’t make it through Kama Sutra and I think if I was playing HR blind right now, I would’ve done the same here. I mean it’s fine to have your personal tastes differ from the masses, but the problem for me is that I was convinced I liked slaughter of all kinds—hell, I got into mapping because I wanted to make +1000 monster slaughtermaps. It’s like having a startling revelation that you’re irreligious or queer, except in my case it’s that I’m a anti-protoslaughter bigot.

HR has justified its existence by inspiring that comment from you. Never thought I'd see the day! ;)

[Cynical]

SteveD said:

HR has justified its existence by inspiring that comment from you. Never thought I'd see the day! ;)

How incorrigible does that make those of us who are still ardent fans of the wad? :P

[T-Rex]

I have already stated that HR isn't entirely a slaughter megawad, but even so, I'm one of those who feel that just because a wad is hard doesn't mean it's bad. At least the challenge is fair, especially when you know what you're doing. I may not be the best Doom player, but while HR is indeed challenging, it's not the kind that induces rage quitting, but more the kind that encourages you to hone your skills and execute better tactics.

I think it's because how many of the early HR maps have that Wolf 3D/RotT style of architecture that many people are having that "It's Hard, so It Sucks" attitude, though ironically, Plutonia, yes, even if it's slightly different from HR in terms of how it makes itself challenging, never gets that reception (pretty much due to its quality design style) when even it does have its share of bullshit like stationary chaingunners that are infinitely resurrected by hidden arch-viles in some maps, the compactness that add more to the difficulty in the majority of the mapset, or that arch-vile maze in Hunted, just as examples.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP15 Gates of Hell

Only halfway there and we get a map entitled this. cool.

Getting that secret exit requires three switch presses, and only one of those secret switches seems to have been placed in an actual secret.

Spoiler

the first secret, in the freakin' dark so you can never see the switch realtime.

Opening up this level beyond that stupid dark room is a room with lots of imps on a wall and mancubi and a central monster in the nukage. I'd like to point out the central monster as it shows the very obtuse monster placement on different difficulties in Hell Revealed. Hell knight on easy modes, arch-vile on HMP, and cyber on UV. The type of monster in there returns after completing certain sections of the "outer ring" so to speak, with several, well, setpieces. Quite congested at each end of the ring, with a few key doors. Obviously the central part of the ring is the hub.

The central part of the map has a few switches, and I hate the fact that all of them start under the ground. Quirky players might hit them with use if they know where they are, but the first one requires moving from the northern portal for it to appear. Single linedefs not on the walls are strange things to use for actions like that.

So really, a lot of dubious things to note here, the arch-vile under the crusher, the hell knights and barons on the balconies (on UV they're pretty much hard-pressed in movement), and the colored door shacks being simply shacks, with sole archies and a switch inside each. Those switches add respective difficulty-level monsters to the nukage pool (exception: baron instead of hell knights on easy skills). One of the worst side rings is the southeast one, but only because making a sound there apparently alerts the chaingunners on the southern side ring, and they crowd the entrance teleporter over there.

[gaspe]

MAP15 - Gates to Hell

Kills: 74% | Items: 66% | Secrets: 0%

I actually liked this level more than the previous "puzzle" boxes map. It felt like an obstacle course and has somekind of an arcade vibe. Clearing the various parts of the ring was fun, and this time we have some (finally) good weaponry. The various portals in the hub are "marked" with different decorative things so it's easy to understand where to go. Cool level, shame for the lame first secret.

[joe-ilya]

15

Sure are a lot of gates just to get to hell when you have a deep urge to just go to hell. I like this for being most creative and fun to play in HR yet. That's how slaughterfest should be done, with smart monster placement and innovations of progression.

The secret switch at the start room is pure bullshit.

4.5/5

31

What the fuck is this? You wait in a boring elevator room while monsters spawn in for 2 minutes untill the elevator reaches bottom and reveals dozens of chaingunners, you blaze through some spectres, walk a catwalk and push the exit button. Nice idea, but it's horribly done.

0.5/5

32

One of those generic maps where you collect three keys and get into the middle structure to exit, but this one is more generic than that because it's a strictly symmetric map.
*yawn*

1/5