The DWmegawad Club plays: Hell Revealed

[Crusader No Regret]

casting vote for Vanguard/Hell Ground/Bloody Steel sure

Map 10 on UV:

One of numerous SSG centric maps in the set, this one is short enough that it doesn't become too bothersome. Chainsaw at the start with limited plasma and chaingun bullets available. With some fast door abuse, unlikely to die unless being really stupid and getting surrounded (which I did once). "Monster Condo" texturing works well enough at creating a sense of place with minimalist detailing. Could probably do this map SSG only easily enough. Doesn't feel like hell revealed though at least playable.

Map 11 on UV:

Continuing on from the previous map, made it to the BFG before getting bored and closing Doom. Has nothing to do with the map itself; I played the heck out of this years ago and considered it a personal accomplishment to exit UV Max style without saves as a keyboarder.
Others have noted how important foreknowledge and route planning are to finishing HR maps with minimal difficulty. This map really serves as an example since a difficult map become moderate to easy with knowledge of where key items are, a plan for weapon usage, and usage of infighting and monster blocking lines to stay safe and have ammo for when it's most needed. Also, first required strafejumping, kind of feel eh about it. At least here it's simple; the BFG secret on map 14... (shivers)

[Demon of the Well]

VGA said:

Noone wants Hellbound goddamnit. Then I put my vote on Vanguard/Hell Ground/Bloody Steel :D

I want to play Hellbound sometime soon, I really like it.

But since the field is already narrowed to two others this go-round, I'll cast a vote for Vanguard/Hell Ground/Bloody Steel.

(only reason I didn't vote earlier is that I thought it had already essentially been decided, Dobu. ;) )

(also I guess I need to actually finish writing about HR here pretty quick...)

[dobu gabu maru]

VGA said:

Noone wants Hellbound goddamnit.

Demon and I (and I'm pretty sure a few others) would definitely champion Hellbound, it's just that it's kinda counterproductive to vote against the current nominees once they've been established. As long as you stick around to vote, we should be able to get around to it this year.

[baja blast rd.]

By the way, that triplet amounts to 24 maps in total. I know you don't want to pad things with single maps or whatnot, but is there any chance we can add the four-map "Ol' No Name" to the roster (my preference), or the seven-map "Mayan Mishap" (which has five playable maps afaik)? Up to you. ;)

[Cynical]

rdwpa said:

By the way, that triplet amounts to 24 maps in total. I know you don't want to pad things with single maps or whatnot, but is there any chance we can add the four-map "Ol' No Name" to the roster (my preference), or the seven-map "Mayan Mishap" (which has five playable maps afaik)? Up to you. ;)

...Huh?

Vanguard has 13 maps, Hell Ground has seven maps, Bloody Steel has 10 maps. 30 maps total.

[baja blast rd.]

https://www.doomworld.com/idgames/levels/doom2/Ports/g-i/hg

One level for 'advanced' Boom compatible ports.

The idgames description misled me.

And don't huh me, buddy, I'll huh you back.

[AD_79]

huh

Voting for Vanguard and co. just because I like Vanguard.

[baja blast rd.]

I can dish out huhs like an elderly person who can't find their hearing aid.

[dobu gabu maru]

rdwpa said:

I know you don't want to pad things with single maps or whatnot [...]

I'm gonna pull the grouch card again and say that 3 distinct wads per month is about my limit, mainly because digging up links for each of them takes more time than I'm willing to spend (though I do want to replay Ol' No Name). If someone wanted to take over club priorities for a month then you guys could do whatever, but with me at the helm my priorities are on trying to minimize the workload I have to do.

[T-Rex]

To anyone who still thinks HR started the slaughterfest genre, you should take a look at these lesser known Casali wads. HR may be one of the pioneers, but definitely not the first.

Runriot (Dario Casali) - February 17, 1995
Punisher (Dario Casali) - August 15, 1995
Seej (Dario and Milo Casali) - July 11, 1996

Speaking of new wads to try, it would be awesome if we tried Alien Vendetta. Yeah, it may be a HR-inspired megawad, but at least it's one many within the Doom community praise for its stunning visuals and level design and there's a good balance between adventure and slaughter, since Alien Vendetta veered off to another direction from its predecessor. Maybe even Eternal Doom, see how many of us can stomach a lengthy, puzzle-centric mapset.

[Salt-Man Z]

Man, I consider Vanguard the WAD the taught me to up my Doom game as a player. I might have to join in. It might be good to polish off Bloody Steel, too (I've played the first map or two.)

[ReFracture]

T-Rex said:

Speaking of new wads to try, it would be awesome if we tried Alien Vendetta. Yeah, it may be a HR-inspired megawad, but at least it's one many within the Doom community praise for its stunning visuals and level design and there's a good balance between adventure and slaughter, since Alien Vendetta veered off to another direction from its predecessor.

I agree but I also have a stupid amount of love for that megawad.

I vote for Vanguard and co.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP30: Hell Revealed

Ye olde Icon of Sin map. Like many others, I can't find anything interesting to say about this map, next.

MAP24: Post Mortem
95% kills, 3/6 secrets

The initial monster count is 579 on UV but I was somewhere in the 1100 range when I finished, thanks to all the damn Pain Elementals. Despite having some of the aesthetic feel of The Living End, with the level having a mostly brown/grey design with edifices climbing out of an interior bloody lake, it obviously plays much differently. Still a fairly linear path, but this one continues to take the player back to the start and punishing (or at least, making more interesting) for leaving areas unswept. While the BFG and invuln are technically in secrets, they're pretty easy to find, and you'll definitely need them. I probably used the invuln too early, on the approach to the double teleporter, but it worked out.

While the vast amount of cyberdemons, AVs and Pain Elementals will keep you running, there's actually a couple decent safe spots - I ended up using the teleporter cubby before the demon stairs to clear out a lot of monsters (such as grabbing the blue key, leaving immediately, then blasting the revenants from the cubby) and the red key temple room to take out the baron wave before the end. Hardest part was probably the AV-bridge, as its a difficult place to find a firing lane (I ended up settling from near a gap in the grey stone below) and the cybers nearby can't be easily ignored. The bridge is also annoying the first time you'll accidentally bump into it (or fire into it). I'm not sure that I would say this is the best map in HR, but I think it's up there as it shares the same attributes that make the other good maps in the set work - lots of pressure, lots of ammo and the ability to move around but still be in some close situations.

[Suitepee]

T-Rex said:

Punisher (Dario Casali) - August 15, 1995

Dang, this was practically 'Go 2 It' before Plutonia even existed! I may have to try these 3 maps you've linked sometime, they look more interesting than HR ever did.

[T-Rex]

Suitepee said:

Dang, this was practically 'Go 2 It' before Plutonia even existed! I may have to try these 3 maps you've linked sometime, they look more interesting than HR ever did.

If you can handle the insanity, of course. In typical Casali fashion, these three wads are hard as balls, with the latter two in particular having a much higher and nastier monster count than in Plutonia and even HR. I also hear there's another version of Punisher that has even more meat walls, but it's not on the /idgames archives. These are the true progenitors of the slaughterfest genre.

[Budoka]

Naan said:

that's the same impression I got from HR: most maps weren't made to be remotely UVMax-able, let alone doing that on pistol start.

And yet, Yonatan Donner himself and a select few people did exactly that, and ended up clearing every single map barely a few weeks after the Megawad's release date. So I don't really buy it.

[baja blast rd.]

dobu gabu maru said:

I'm gonna pull the grouch card again and say that 3 distinct wads per month is about my limit, mainly because digging up links for each of them takes more time than I'm willing to spend (though I do want to replay Ol' No Name). If someone wanted to take over club priorities for a month then you guys could do whatever, but with me at the helm my priorities are on trying to minimize the workload I have to do.

Someone else helming the club?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=me0nsP_s7Rs#t=32s

[rehelekretep]

so what's the pick then? its March 1st! :)

[j4rio]

Suitepee said:

Dang, this was practically 'Go 2 It' before Plutonia even existed! I may have to try these 3 maps you've linked sometime, they look more interesting than HR ever did.

Actually, plutonia was created sometime around the end of 1994.

[Pirx]

rehelekretep said:

so what's the pick then? its March 1st! :)

OK I abstained from voting as both choices were ok for me, but seeing this still undecided I vote for the vanguard & Co combo, for sake of more variety. Gladly bloodstain next month. Perhaps Pipicz also wants to change some things until then? I don't know m

[T-Rex]

Looks like Vanguard might be the next one in line. That looks like a fun episode.

[NuMetalManiak]

I'll keep championing Bloodstain next month. Vanguard's best thing I can remember is MAP12's awesome music. at least Hell Ground is in the mix.

also lol Suitepee.

[gaspe]

I vote for Bloodstain.

[Suitepee]

Getsu Fune said:

I'll keep championing Bloodstain next month. Vanguard's best thing I can remember is MAP12's awesome music. at least Hell Ground is in the mix.

also lol Suitepee.

Well hey it says Plutonia was released in 1996 on the Doom wiki. I wasn't to know that it'd been completed much earlier. Either way it seems D.Casali was very much interested in making harder variants of the map01 design back then.

[gaspe]

Suitepee said:

Either way it seems D.Casali was very much interested in making harder variants of the map01 design back then.

Well Plutonia for the most is made of rip-offs with improved/harder gameplay.

[Jaws In Space]

j4rio said:

Actually, plutonia was created sometime around the end of 1994.

Did you mean the end of 1995?

The Doomwiki says

Dario and Milo Casali, who had contributed three and one level respectively to the Evilution project, accepted the task of creating what became Plutonia after having sent an eight-level WAD of their designs to American McGee, managing to impress him along with the rest of id Software. They created 32 levels for Plutonia in four months' time, and submitted them in January 1996.

[j4rio]

5 years of doom said:

Did id Software basically accept Plutonia as-is, or were lots of changes made to it?

Dario Casali said:

Not a single change was made to the 32 levels I sent Shawn Green in January 1995 (thank God because I was ready to throw my computer out the window at the time).

[Jaws In Space]

seems much more likely that the 5 years of Doom has a typo

[j4rio]

It's not.

Dario Casali said:

... I also released some crazy levels after Plutonia which were Doom2 E1M1 variants with huge numbers of monsters (1000s each) in them. These were called Punisher...

When you look up idgames time stample of punisher (august 15, 1995), it's clear plutonia had to be already finished at that time.

[Jaws In Space]

That doesn't make any sense whatsoever though. The ID team was actively developing Doom all the way through April of 1995 with the release of Ultimate Doom. Only then did Shawn Green get tasked with developing Master Levels & Final Doom. If Shawn Green had Plutonia in January of 1995 why does Master levels even exist & why would he have purchased Evilution when they would have been sitting on Plutonia for at least a year by that point?