The DWmegawad Club plays: Hell Revealed

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP15: Gates to Hell

A warm welcome here in the form of something like half of the map's monster population holding a party for you in the big central room one teleport away from the start. The elevated position of the imps means they're a little slower to get the infighting going, but pretty soon you can have have mancubus fireballs tracing pretty criss-crossing patterns through the air. I found myself kind of disappointed that, one occasion aside, you don't really have much of an opportunity to tackle the various gates in the order that suits you; the eight of them standing there very much present the illusion of choice rather than the reality. Still, the layout is fun enough, as you gradually open up more and more of the outer ring, connecting its parts into a navigable whole.

On the other hand, placing one of the switches necessary to open the path to the secret level behind a door that's opened by shooting a wall that looks exactly like the walls around it, in a room you can't return to once you leave, in the dark, is so far beyond counterintuitive that it wraps around to the other side. Its presence is hinted at in the infopack, and I won't fault the map authors for being insufficiently psychic to future-proof their supplementary files against 20 years of OS advances, but it's so completely oblique to any methods of secret-hunting in normal gameplay beyond "punch literally every wall you see" that I feel comfortable calling it "so clever it's stupid."

[gaspe]

MAP31 - The Descent

The elevator fight is something really cool to use sometimes in a map, as part of it. But making a map that it's all about a big elevator is too much. Skipped after 2 minutes.

MAP32 - Mostly Harmful

Kills: 77% | Items: 62% | Secrets: 100%

The same area pasted four times around a circle. After clearing all the starting room the map is just a mindless spam with the bfg or occasionally the rocketlauncher. Rushing to get the keys is really easy at least.
Edit: I can see this level on beign a thrilling experience in 97', but nonetheless now and even the first time I played it feels a bit plain.

[antares031]

MAP16 - The Path
ZDoom, UV - Pistol Start, KIS(%): 100/83/50

You like barons of hell, don't you? Those annoying bulletsponges. For some reason, the author decided to put some bulletsponges in this level. And the name of level is "The Path", which means you need to stay on the path rather than hazardous blood pool. Thankfully, this level has plenty of radiation suits, so don't be afraid to use them. The design is a little bit boring since there are just giant areas with no details. Monster placements are okay, except bulletsponges. I only got 8 shells left after I cleaned the whole area.

[Urthar]

ZDoom - Continous Play - HMP

MAP15 – Gates To Hell

A quick check of my inventory reveals I'm fully stocked on rockets and shells, so should the need arise, I can probably clear the whole map without any problems.
The first arena is an invitation to provoke infighting while waiting for the first switch to appear. I'm not really sure what activates it, and while the obfuscation isn't inappropriate to this opener, the lack of a clean progression nags at me. Eventually it appears and I'm into the courtyards, and since I ignore the balcony turrets, the map proceeds very quickly. Resources seem to appear just when I need them, and in generous quantities. And before I know it I'm at the exit.
So with some pre-knowledge, this is a pretty fast and hectic map, and definitely my sort of thing. I seem to recall I was a little confused on my first playthrough due to the symmetry. Still everything is signposted, so I can't complain.

MAP31 – Descent

I was quite thankful that I started this level with 120 Blue Armour, because otherwise I suspect it would have gotten a bit painful. The four secrets at the start appear to grant full ammo at least.
It took a few attempts to make it to the bottom. I think the most deadly aspect is the four tech-lamps you can easily snag on. Once down, the not particularly secret exit seems the best option, since going for the keys just seems to release more monsters. Unfortunately the secret exit requires some god awful platforming.
Visually, I didn't like it. I think if you're going to go with the Wolfenstein stuff, you should go all the way. Otherwise it's a decent enough Romero Lift that alleviates it's difficulty by it's brevity.

MAP32 – Mostly Harmful

Looks far more intimidating than it actually is. Once you clear the moat, the rest of the map can be dismantled at leisure, especially with the resources available. Generally this kind of map isn't for me, but it's short enough that I don't really mind.
The death exit feels like a dick move though. Your reward for finding the secret levels appears to be pistol starting MAP16.

[mouldy]

MAP15 - "Gates to Hell" by Yonatan Donner

The one thing i remember about this map above all else was that it introduced me to the cardinal sin of baron snipers, utter tedium to get rid of. I guess the idea is that you dont, and just suffer their pot-shots throughout, which is nearly as annoying as having to clear them out. Other than that its all straightforward, barring a few moments of not knowing what to do next. The one thing I can never forgive this map for though is making me hunt for the last switch to open the secret exit. After checking doombuilder it looks like that switch is hidden in the darkness of the starting room which you can't get back to, so fuck that. If you are interested you have to shoot an invisible switch to open an invisible door which has another invisible switch behind it. No secret maps for me I guess.

[Paul977]

MAP15: Gates of Hell

Took me some attempts to pass this map but certainly less then map 13. I agree with mouldy that taking off of the barons HKs turrets is quite tedious but once you do that you are more free to move in the various areas. The idea of the portals is not bad. I missed the secret exit (I found only one switch behind the slime-wall - which was the most difficult area of the level for me, along with the zombie commandos area) and the megasphere.

[dobu gabu maru]

Cynical said:

How incorrigible does that make those of us who are still ardent fans of the wad? :P

Steve just enjoys watching me languish in despair :P

I thought about this while watching Suitepee's stream, but an unfortunate side effect to playing the maps continuous is that you can avoid a lot of what makes Hell Revealed special. By carrying weapons into the next map you don't have to explore as thoroughly or plan out a route, and the challenge becomes more sluggish as the player is pushed to engage with encounters rather than flee from them. In that case I can't fault continuous people from having a rough time, but if you go with pistol starts the problem is then about having to know the maps beforehand. As Cynical and Ribbiks have pointed out, the general opinion has changed from a time where exploration was king to where gameplay is king, and it's not nearly as magical to play "A BRAND NEW SET OF 32 HARD MAPS!" nowadays as it was back then.

As proven by Cynical's shotgunless run of MAP14, you can still make fun scenarios out of HR's levels, but the problem is that you have to know where/when/how to make encounters more invigorating, which a lot of players won't have the patience for. And on top of that, some of HR's excitement comes from leaving certain enemies alive (like perched revenants), which a player is unlikely to do their first time through since 1) they have the ammo for it, 2) those enemies might have goodies & 2) it might come back to bite them in the ass. As I distance myself from HR more I can learn to respect it, but only with a hundred little stipulations and addendums (don't go for max kills, avoid these enemies, rush to this weapon, grab the secret armor here, berserk punch this amount of enemies, save your cell for this part, etc). There is variability, but it's only after you learn what not to do.

MAP15: Ah, I remember this one. There’s a bit of a gimmicky theme to it (lower the teles and clear out the adjoining areas) and the combat is mostly mild. Lotsa shells, lotsa rockets, big walls of meat everywhere… it doesn’t require as much creative footwork as the last two maps, but it’s also not fragrantly offensive in robbing you of your gear. An alright map.

MAP31: Well this was a doofy little map. I squatted on the teleporter location because I figured if this mapset is gonna be a dick then I’m going to be one too, and it wasn’t that bad outside of the initial push out. I thought the cybies were going to raise hell but was pleasantly surprised that the secret exit didn’t require me tussling with them, so I merrily fled.

MAP32: Hahaha this was a cute map. You take two steps and hell is instantly unleashed, and trying to run anywhere else just summons the IoS to start flinging shit everywhere. It’s a bit of a slapdash race to the finish, though there’s plenty of rockets and megaspheres to ensure you’ll survive—the bulk of the challenge comes from BFGing your way into each key room and trying to kill both the cybers and AVs before they can kill you. It’s a tad repetitive but at least the IoS spiced things up, and it’s definitely a league above MAP31’s ugly, boring elevator ride. Might even be my favorite map thus far!

[Cynical]

dobu gabu maru said:

As proven by Cynical's shotgunless run of MAP14, you can still make fun scenarios out of HR's levels, but the problem is that you have to know where/when/how to make encounters more invigorating, which a lot of players won't have the patience for. And on top of that, some of HR's excitement comes from leaving certain enemies alive (like perched revenants), which a player is unlikely to do their first time through since 1) they have the ammo for it, 2) those enemies might have goodies & 2) it might come back to bite them in the ass. As I distance myself from HR more I can learn to respect it, but only with a hundred little stipulations and addendums (don't go for max kills, avoid these enemies, rush to this weapon, grab the secret armor here, berserk punch this amount of enemies, save your cell for this part, etc). There is variability, but it's only after you learn what not to do.

I would say that if playing "as intended" (which, in this case, means "no saves"; you can't even save at all on two of the maps in vanilla without crashing the game!), such foreknowledge comes naturally as a part of playing.

It's just like playing an arcade platformer or shmup and going for the 1cc (or like playing a Contra game, for those who are more console-inclined). You'll naturally learn good strategies just by playing the game.

EDIT: Also, I don't believe that exploration and combat are two separate, discrete boxes. Look at maps 20 or 27-29 of Resurgence, to name a recent example of maps where the two intersect heavily.

[Magnusblitz]

MAP15: Gates of Hell
75% kills, 0/3 secrets

Ah, I remember this map. I actually find it quite fun to play, as there's nothing that's too difficult (despite each room seeming pretty dangerous at first) and I enjoy the way the map is divided up into little sections. Shame the secret exit is so stupidly hidden, though.

[gaspe]

MAP16 - The Path

Kills: 56% | Items: 33% | Secrets: 0%

Oh, this is the level with that awful ripoff on HR2. So many barons, and I skipped all of course. Entering into the "towers", or rooms, will be tricky the first time, the barons make a good pression outside and there will be some nasty archviles too. The damaging blood was kinda useless due to all the radiation suits. This level has something that I really like about the very tall place. Although it's one of the worst levels of the wad. Boring combats with extremely bare locations and nonexistent lightning.

[Urthar]

ZDoom – Continuous Play - HMP

MAP16 – The Path

So it turned out I didn't really need to pistol start this one after all. Health and green armour were fairly close to hand, and the only real risk was grabbing a rad-suit on 10% health.

With the benefit of the arsenal I carried over from MAP31 this map was remarkably easy. Especially since some of the Archviles that hang out in the towers on UV, were absent on HMP. The Spider Mastermind was missing too I think, but I doubt she would have made a huge difference.

So, there's a lot of monsters but they're playfully easy to out manoeuvre and gun down with the sheer amount of rad-suits, rockets and cells that this map throws at you. The SSG barely got an outing, except to dispatch a few stragglers.

There's a certain amount of exploration to do, but unlike E3M7 Limbo, there was never a danger of running out of rad-suits, and the whole thing is simple enough to work out.

I really quite like this map. The visuals and geometry are starkly simple, but there's a genuine sense of atmosphere and scale. The spaces have a solid feel to them, and the layout does a good job of showing you those spaces from difference vantage points. Tonality everything hangs together and nothing about it looks out of place.

[T-Rex]

dobu gabu maru said:

As Cynical and Ribbiks have pointed out, the general opinion has changed from a time where exploration was king to where gameplay is king, and it's not nearly as magical to play "A BRAND NEW SET OF 32 HARD MAPS!" nowadays as it was back then.

Funny, since Ragnor is one of those guys who have a preference for Eternal-sized maps, which have a major emphasis on exploration. I think with HR, it's more bearable if you approach it with the oldschool mindset, in which in Doom's case, it was exploration.

Anyway, time for me to take on the secret levels. They are going to be pretty tough.

Map31: The Descent (Yonatan Donner)
102% kills, 100% items, 100% secrets
Time: 07:36

I'm sorry to say this, joe-ilya, but I actually like this map. It's got a rather interesting gimmick, where you go down a long elevator ride while fending off against a gauntlet of enemies. That section is less harrowing if you find the ammo secrets behind the weapons that are revealed once you activate the switch. If you're playing this on either of the Final Doom IWADs, like I am, it can be a bit tough because the floating enemies are spawned high up. That's where I'd use the rocket launcher after using the SSG against the first few waves that appear. Once you reach the bottom, I recommend picking any of the entrances blocked by chaingunners and rush into the Wolfenstein rooms, because if you linger at the central hub any longer, you'll get ambushed and killed quickly. I strongly recommend to clear all the rooms before grabbing the keys so that you won't be overwhelmed. I'd pick the blue key first as it unleashes the arch-vile so that he won't resurrect too many monsters, then the red key to finish off the remaining spawning enemies. Oh yeah, and clear out the small blue rooms before doing any of that. That makes things less of a hassle. Now, I'm going to say right here that getting to the secret exit is aggravating, because you have to do some really tricky strafejumping across narrow platforms, and this part is very precise. Saving when you manage to make a footing on the platform closest to the wall is a must, because one false move, and you'll fall down into the lava and have to do the process all over again. I've lost count how many times I've failed (I suck at strafejumping), but I persevered and through dumb luck got past it. That's the only bit in this map I dislike, but otherwise, it's not that hard, it's pretty cool, and it uses RotT's "Adagio For Strings," another favourite of mine from the game, especially since I love classical music.

Map32: Mostly Harmful (Yonatan Donner)
102% kills, 100% items, 100% secrets
Time: 07:38

Alright! An extremely fun and frantic map! This is what I will consider an actual slaughtermap in Hell Revealed. It's very tough, that's for certain, and I know it's more nuts on UV due to the monster spawner. Best strategy is to pick up the goods, wake everybody up by rushing out and start an infight. I eliminate the caged arch-viles first before working on the other monsters. For an easier time, have the cyberdemons focusing on the monsters who fired them, then BFG from behind and quickly so that they'll be down in no time. Repeat that process for the other quadrants as they're basically the same. Before entering the doors to the hub, I'd take the teleporters to work on all the enemies in the moat, then finish off the remaining parties in the central area. You'll be using your BFG9000 and rocket launcher the most in this map. There's a handful of megaspheres to restore your health, but use them wisely. Enjoyable and hectic map from start to finish, though it may take several attempts. The architecture and style reminds me of Milo Casali and Plutonia, especially the fact that the map is symmetrical. One of the true HR slaughtermaps, and there's more to come later on, that's for sure. No one gets out alive indeed. You have to be at less than 11% of health in order to exit, unless you're playing on ITYTD/HNTR where you can just blow up Romero's head in the centre of the map. For me, this is the second-hardest HR map, as we all know which one's the hardest.

The secret levels are done, and it's back to the main line of maps, though that will be for another time. See you all in Map16, The Path. Gonna play myself Roger Ritenour's Earth and Phobos episodes to unwind from HR for now.

[NuMetalManiak]

MAP31 The Descent

yay, the original long descending elevator map. Still charming if you ask me, although four out of five secrets being right there is silly. As for the hordes coming down, it would have been more interesting if they spawned in from different destinations.

at the end of the descent it's really bland Wolfenstein textures and orthogonality. highlights here are spectres, chaingunners, and key traps, notably the various monsters that spawn in after the red key. Also the corner rooms are another example of HR's obtuse monster placement on different difficulty settings, mancubus on easy skills, archie on HMP, cyber on UV and NM.

Deliberately skipping MAP32 because I don't like the platforming segment to reach the secret exit and I really don't like the level in general anyways.

MAP16 The Path

Killing barons on this map is tedious business. The Path shows what it's like to fight on walkways over damaging ground, but with radiation suits littered around the columns, it's alright to walk a bit. plenty of imps too, as well as the window of mancubi. So much brown though for a level this size, something we'll see in it's "sequel" level should we come to play that. Oh, and the cacodemons in the last area are quite pointless.

Overall, I like the sequel of this level in hr2final better. Probably because of the music there.

[Cynical]

Seeing HR16 impugned is absolutely hearbreaking, so I recorded this: http://www.mediafire.com/download/h0zm92m3a55fl97/hr16rules.lmp

It's not like I did this with a lot of study and foreknowledge, either. I didn't even remember anything about the map other than the general idea. I just did some runs, worked it out as it went, and once I figured out a good route (which naturally lead to an exit), did it again while recording.

[TheOrganGrinder]

MAP16: The Path

Interesting map with some unfortunately less-than-intuitive progression; the blue-barred switch in particular feels very disconnected from its effect. This actually works better with the repopulating nature of the map than it might otherwise; "what did that do?" is a more interesting question to contend with when you're dealing with a renewed surge of pressure and having to play at crowd control versus the meaty wave of demonic reinforcements while you go about your search. The stark simplicity of the map's architecture works well with the large scale of its spaces, and the player is once again largely free to choose their own pace of supply consumption. Actually killing everything struck me as an exercise in tedium so I skipped out with the population of the red key's monster closet ambush and the balance of the late-map Baron of Hell wave still strutting their stuff.

[Paul977]

dobu gabu maru said:

Steve just enjoys watching me languish in despair :P

I thought about this while watching Suitepee's stream, but an unfortunate side effect to playing the maps continuous is that you can avoid a lot of what makes Hell Revealed special. By carrying weapons into the next map you don't have to explore as thoroughly or plan out a route, and the challenge becomes more sluggish as the player is pushed to engage with encounters rather than flee from them. In that case I can't fault continuous people from having a rough time, but if you go with pistol starts the problem is then about having to know the maps beforehand. As Cynical and Ribbiks have pointed out, the general opinion has changed from a time where exploration was king to where gameplay is king, and it's not nearly as magical to play "A BRAND NEW SET OF 32 HARD MAPS!" nowadays as it was back then.

As proven by Cynical's shotgunless run of MAP14, you can still make fun scenarios out of HR's levels, but the problem is that you have to know where/when/how to make encounters more invigorating, which a lot of players won't have the patience for. And on top of that, some of HR's excitement comes from leaving certain enemies alive (like perched revenants), which a player is unlikely to do their first time through since 1) they have the ammo for it, 2) those enemies might have goodies & 2) it might come back to bite them in the ass. As I distance myself from HR more I can learn to respect it, but only with a hundred little stipulations and addendums (don't go for max kills, avoid these enemies, rush to this weapon, grab the secret armor here, berserk punch this amount of enemies, save your cell for this part, etc). There is variability, but it's only after you learn what not to do.

I understand that play HR pistol start would be fun cause a lot of strategy is involved in collecting your arsenal (which almost always heavily protected) and generate monsters infighting.
However I personally preferred the playthrough route cause there are simple a lot of megawads I didn't played (Alien Vendetta, Hell Revealed 2, Plutonia 2, Plutonia Revisited etc..) since I discovered the idgames archive "late".
Back on topic:

MAP 16: The Path

I liked the layout and the architecture of the level: basically an "Anti-Christ" played on ground level, interesting. The music is also good here.
Gameplay instead suffer because of the presence of too many Barons which a lot of them must be killed in order to not be under crossfire. Fortunatly there are enough radiation suits to use for this purpose. Once found the right "path" to leave the level (which took me a good amount of attempts) I finished it with 76% kill (better to save ammo for the next levels).

[Budoka]

Cynical said:

EDIT: Also, I don't believe that exploration and combat are two separate, discrete boxes. Look at maps 20 or 27-29 of Resurgence, to name a recent example of maps where the two intersect heavily.

And intersect they should. The whole point of any properly coherent piece of work is that the various aspects that make it actively support each other.

MAP15 : Gates to Hell

This one seems to garner less controversy than most. It’s a pretty good map, with some drawbacks others have already mentioned : navigation can be a little confusing, those Barons are a total pain, and that missable first switch is bullshit (I advocate against missable content in general). I don’t feel very inspired over this one, maybe because its overall structure is so straightforward.

MAP31 : The Descent

One of my favorites. The elevator section is just hard enough to be thoroughly satisfying to overcome, and really I’d say that holds true of most things in this map, including the secret exit straferun challenge.

MAP32 : Mostly Harmful

Easy to UV-Speed, tough to UV-Max. It’s all very frantic and over the top, which I applaud and is really the whole point of this WAD anyway. I don’t get the point of the low health exit though, that’s just being dickish for the sake of it, not to mention rather unintuitive.

MAP16 : The Path

A lot of people hate this map, but I’ve never had much of a problem with it. It requires a lot of thinking and power-up placement as a whole is very well balanced. As in, there’s just enough. I like the damage floor gimmick, it’s all about knowing when to take advantage of the radsuits and when to play the tightrope game. Though if you play aggressively enough, it shouldn’t be much of an issue.

[antares031]

MAP17 - The Black Towers
ZDoom, UV - Pistol Start, KIS(%): 100/100/100

More bulletsponges, yay!! And this time, to make it even worse, we have an unexpected chaingunner ambush, tricky arch-vile placements, and even an extra challenge with cyberdemon for each keys. But at least this level has a mercy to give you a lot of ammo to help out. The layout is basic, and so is the monster placement... except that cheesy chaingunner ambush which is basically a beginner's trap.

[joe-ilya]

16

Going underground again, 'living end' style map with lots of catwalks and mid-tier enemies, good weaponary for your killing, bosses and viles are present.
I'd call this a good slaughterfest if it wasn't for the dumb mancubus line to the blue skull.

Good non-linearity for lots of escaping routes.

4/5

[mouldy]

MAP16 - "The Path" by Yonatan Donner

I was dreading this one but its actually not that bad once you know it. Its the learning that is so painful, with all the damaging floor and walls of barons to deal with, and not knowing where to go or what to do. And it is kind of important to know since certain switches must be hunted in order to progress, and there seems to be a fair amount of optional stuff to muddy the waters. With some foreknowledge you realise that there are enough rad suits to be constantly wearing one and enough ammo to go reasonably wild, assuming you aren't going to bother taking out all those barons. I certainly didnt, life is too short for that nonsense. The main points of difficulty were grabbing the rocket launcher at the start without getting fried, and the red key room which is a bit awkward to deal with. Again the visuals are dreary, but its reaching a point now where the scale and challenge helps you to forget about that while you just try to survive and find the exit.

[Cynical]

mouldy said:

and there seems to be a fair amount of optional stuff to muddy the waters.

Huh?

The only major optional thing is the Zerk pack/secret Soulsphere branch of the "pitchfork" at the north end of the map. I guess you could also call the Plasma Rifle and Rocket Launcher "optional" (although getting the blue key would probably be close to impossible with just an SSG), but I don't think that anyone is going to get confused by a pair of simple buildings that each house one thing of interest.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 13 -- Last Look at Eden - 107% Kills / 100% Secrets
Another of Hell Revealed's more iconic maps, it's here where all of the different elements that most define the mapset start to come together all in one place for the first time, creating a level that has both the set's blocky, airy characteristic look/feel and characteristic gameplay in a single outing, rather than featuring some elements and not others like the earlier, more embryonic maps (and again, I can't overstate how totally obvious it is in hindsight that maps 01-12 are the way they are largely because they were some of the authors' earliest creations). Not one of the set's more difficult maps--knowing the tricks and a good route is more a matter of having a smooth and relatively[ time-efficient outing than of having one that is simply survivable in this case--but it is a herald of the general level of exertion that is going to be expected of you in almost every remaining map from this point.

As aforesaid, this is a posterchild HR map as far as gameplay is concerned--you start off in the midst of an oppressive, HP-rich enemy occupation, and have to experiment and make exploratory forays into the level in order to gather weapons and supplies in order to make progress. Well, you don't HAVE to, I suppose....the unusual thing about this particular level is how starkly its speed/foreknowledge route differs from its 'standard' route, with the keynote strategy on a repeat playthrough being a mad dash through scores of powerful enemies in the first two rooms to reach the SSG at the bottom of the 'steps' room, subsequently moving on to clear out the 'park' area and its offshoots before teleporting back to the starting area to finish things off. Quite a stark difference from the blind first playthrough most players are likely to have, which involves slowballing through a ton of heavy opposition in the early areas, exploiting terrain gaps (i.e. places you can stand where you can hit the monsters but they can't easily hit you) and infighting to gradually progress with limited means. To again reiterate, this slow/steady vs. risky/efficient (and the choice between them) dichotomy is a big part of what makes HR tick, but it's relatively unusual for the two approaches to change the way the level plays to the extent seen here--if in map 11 routing is the difference between success and failure, here it's something more like the difference between blitzkrieg and trench warfare, if you see what I mean.

The other feature that makes this arguably the first 'true' HR map is a function of layout: the playing field here is basically a series of big boxes with different freestanding constructions sitting around in them, meaning that each major room presents a one-off concept of sorts, ala the central park's quirky "warring gazebos" theme (where you run around the grassy area and stir up conflict both between and within the concentrated pockets of opposition in the four corners) or the well-known cage trap to the west, an early example of a setpiece encounter revolving almost entirely around the concept of correct target prioritization (the chaingunners, in this case). These play-boxes all segue very starkly into one another, with very little sense of fanfare in interconnection or the like, which in turn means that the sense of incidental skirmish-based combat is heavily diminished, with each room being like a discrete battle in a larger military campaign. This contrasts heavily with the winding, 'mazey' strings of corridors between larger rooms that characterized Yonatan's earlier maps, which here are contextually conspicuous in their total absence (and which, in truth, are going to be seen only seldom from this point). While this 'new' layout style is not exactly the sort of thing many would be inclined to view as high art these days, the contrast is undeniable, and a sense of growth/refinement as well, as what we see here is vastly more appropriate for the type of gameplay the set has obviously been trying to have since its very beginning. There is still room to develop from here--the 'lateform' HR maps that appear deeper in the set, presumably the latest ones created, use the same style of yard/building construction seen here but generally in a much more open sandboxy context without the stark segmentation/segregation between rooms/concepts, and will again be a noticeable contrast once we start seeing them--but nevertheless there's a good reason many HR fans consider this map to be the point where the game really starts.

[mouldy]

Cynical said:

Huh?

The only major optional thing is the Zerk pack/secret Soulsphere branch of the "pitchfork" at the north end of the map. I guess you could also call the Plasma Rifle and Rocket Launcher "optional" (although getting the blue key would probably be close to impossible with just an SSG), but I don't think that anyone is going to get confused by a pair of simple buildings that each house one thing of interest.

I've highlighted all the optional areas. I didn't bother getting the plasma rifle.

That central area is especially confusing since it looks the same as all the other areas, and because you are being teleported around you have no easy reference for where exactly you are. I didn't even realise at first that it was a completely separate enclosed part of the map.

[dobu gabu maru]

MAP16: This map is all about grinding down high-HP enemies, which isn’t all that exciting. There’s enough radsuits and shells lying about that it’s doable, it’s just suuuuuuch a loooooooong slooooooog. The Mastermind usage in the map is the epitome of the experience—just stay next to the corner and whittle her down with the SSG, bit by bit. It’s certainly not as fun as MAP32, but at least it has a lot of style going on. The brown and red colors mixed with the orthogonal nature of the level give it a distinct feel, and I think my favorite room is the exit room, just because you usually don’t see bloodfalls packed into squares like that.

[Cynical]

The one on the NE corner with the Zerk and Soulsphere secret is the one I referenced, and is the only one that I could see someone thinking contains an actual map objective.

I guess I could maybe see someone thinking the central-East one held something important, but you can see down there and notice that there's basically nothing there. And it requires an unprotected leap onto a pain-floor, something that hasn't been required elsewhere in the map (has it even been required in the wad at all up to this point?). It doesn't look like a place you really want to go (which is why it's such a cool hiding place for that Megasphere, heh).

Your highlight of the Northern half of the South-Eastern chamber includes the switch behind the blue bars, which isn't optional. It also includes the teleporter to the Plasma Rifle, which I guess isn't strictly mandatory, but sure does help at both key fights (actually, I don't know how you'd do the Mancubus hallway without it, unless you spent a million years cleaning it up from the ground, or an equally long time grinding through with the SSG after you ran out of rockets).

See above about the Plasma rifle at the extreme south end.

Likewise, I don't see how the central area is confusing. The elevated walkway with the mastermind overlooks a room you've already been in (the Revenant-populated room that leads to the exit -- same room that has the switch that created the staircase in the first place, so you're guaranteed to have already been there), so one glance should tell you exactly where you are. Furthermore, it *doesn't* look the same as all the other areas; the archetectural motifs there are quite different from the souther areas, with the path being elevated and the structural pillars at regular intervals.

EDIT @ Dobu -- why are you SSG-ing down the Spider? There's soemthing like 400 cells about 20 feet away.

[gaspe]

MAP17 - The Black Towers

Kills: 64% | Items: 20% | Secrets: 50%

A little version of City in the Clouds. To exit we need to find at least the red key, and just another one. The starting area is not very big, lots of barons will "eat" the space quickly and the revs and the chaingunners will make the things hard. After few deaths and failed attempts to rush into the buildings I realized that killing all the monsters outside would have been a better thing to do before entering into the towers. I was very lucky to pick the blue key and the red one, I didn't know the locations. I tried to get also the yellow key but that spiderdemon fight seemed a bit awkward so I just exited the level. Fun level, doing it slowly and taking your time for the fights made the things a bit easier. I'll check out for sure some speedruns of this map.

[dobu gabu maru]

Cynical said:

EDIT @ Dobu -- why are you SSG-ing down the Spider? There's soemthing like 400 cells about 20 feet away.

Playing through the map for the "first" time, I preferred to save my cell for something else (like the manc line-up, since I blew a lot of my rockets on the barons). Using the PG wouldn't necessarily change my complaint about it anyway :P

[Cynical]

dobu gabu maru said:

Playing through the map for the "first" time, I preferred to save my cell for something else (like the manc line-up, since I blew a lot of my rockets on the barons). Using the PG wouldn't necessarily change my complaint about it anyway :P

With Cells, I think that it's an OK mapping decision. It's easy, but it's fast, and it sometimes creates a fun little jab at the player (doesn't happen every time, but I did get "lucky" and have it happen in the demo I posted).

I might argue that it should be there from the start of the map, to help blanket the Rev arena and stop players from being too cowardly early on, though.

[Demon of the Well]

Map 14 -- City in the Clouds - 102% Kills / 100% Secrets
Apart from the obvious "Downtown" inspiration at play here (no doubt more than a little vindicating for IWAD fetishists, I'm sure), this one is notable for its simplistic sandbox approach to level progression, which of course is really just another way of putting a different spin on the signature HR gameplay tropes, i.e. developing a good plan (through exploration/experimentation on your early runs) to allow you to gain optimal momentum early, which can then afford you a methodical conquest of the map. In this case the 'learn or fail' flavor is arguably more pronounced than it has been at any other point in the game thus far, though, since unlike in map 13 not having some kind of definite strategy to help you get started will not simply result in your having to slowball your way through scads of high-HP demons stuffed into each of the buildings, but rather in your hitting a resource-based dead end or stalemate state where will you simply will not be able to realistically gain ground until you get your shit together, maybe even requiring a restart depending on what you've done up to that point. The lack of an SSG is something of a fulcrum point in the map's balance in this regard; while you can make a fair amount of headway in the outdoor area by selective expenditure of your shells and bullets to take out key snipers in combination with trying to maximize infighting (and in fact, weaponizing the lone outdoor cyberdemon against the perched 'trons and other wandering miscreants is pretty much a given in most strategies), in order to actually reach heavier weapons (or, perhaps more crucially, keycards) you have to be able to make it through being dogpiled on in some tight, enclosed areas, and the regular SG just simply doesn't have the DPS to let you stubborn your way through these scenarios, underscoring the importance of recon and preparation.

As is often the case, once you know what you're up against and where things are located, methodically conquering this map is not so much of a to-do, since progress in one area will often directly or indirectly open up avenues of cruelly efficient exploitation vs. the enemies in other areas--i.e. you can use the RL building as a sniping point over the BK landing, and so forth. There are a number of different routes that CAN work (the one I ended up using the first time I played is definitely not the one I used on this most recent visit), but I reckon most players that know the map will immediately use the V-sphere to get the RL and then go from there (many demos then leap to the BK landing and use a vile-jump to get back out, which throws a monkey-wrench into a lot of the nastiest encounter design in that particular building). As you move along, resources become more and more forthcoming (quite a glut of spheres and armor by the end if you're not taking a lot of heavy damage at every juncture), although Yonatan does throw in a couple of claustrophobic CQC encounters with cyberdemons inside the buildings to keep you feeling at least a bit nervy, and to keep later action segments from getting too trivial with foreknowledge. Again, if you're playing and feeling frustrated at struggling because you don't know how you're supposed to know all of this from the get-go, you're missing the point....you AREN'T expected to know, it's figuring it out that's the fun. The question of replayability and how it should factor in to a mapset experience is another one of those things where there's liable to be a huge generation gap between then and now, I suspect.....

[baja blast rd.]

Inspired by last month's Erkattanne playthrough, I'm working on a MIDI album tentatively titled "Demon of the IDMUS", which will be full of tracks that I actually like (I found Erkatanne's midi's annoying too) but that DotW will probably IDMUS out of in the context of Doom.

First draft of the first track:

http://www.mediafire.com/download/646a6ctl6x3apbk/didm1.mid

Off-topic, but whatever, bite me. :D