Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

[continuum.mid]

Just now, Lol 6 said:

Blockmap bug maybe

 

Yeah, I'm aware of the blockmap bug and I've watched that video. I don't want to enable a fix for it, because I like to keep relative vanilla compatibility.

[xX_Lol6_Xx]

1 minute ago, northivanastan said:

Yeah, I'm aware of the blockmap bug and I've watched that video. I don't want to enable a fix for it, because I like to keep relative vanilla compatibility.

I guess that makes the game more unique

2 minutes ago, Tanksy said:

I think if the fists were just a little bit faster on the hit and the pull back from the hit it'd feel a lot more responsive

Dehacked magic and BAM! Faster fists

[seed]

1 hour ago, PaquoCastor said:

I love instapop.

 

Then you have committed a serious offense, mr. Castor.

 

I'm calling the cops rn 🦊.

Edited March 6, 2021 by seed

[Stupid Bunny]

8 minutes ago, Tanksy said:

I think if the fists were just a little bit faster on the hit and the pull back from the hit it'd feel a lot more responsive

It would definitely feel more satisfying. Like the Hexen fighter feels more raw when punching because he really throws his fist, like...you know, he’s actually punching something, and with that hearty sound like he’s doing real damage. As opposed to Doomguy who can gib an imp in one punch but still looks and sounds like he’s all “eugh I’ll harm youuu” as he kind of taps his enemies with his knuckles

 

EDIT: I guess my new controversial opinion is that instapop never bothered me or seemed weird or wrong or anything

Edited March 6, 2021 by StupidBunny

[Spectre01]

5 hours ago, Gustavo6046 said:

I've never quite figured how to make pop-in monsters. I think they're like, forbidden black arts of ribbiksjutsu, or something.

 

I guess just put monsters in lowered self-referencing sectors, and raise those instantly using "floor lower to nearest" (where the neighbouring floors are all higher)?

Instapops are simpler to set up than teleporting enemies. It's usually done with the "line 19" action of "w1 floor lower to highest floor". So you stick enemies into the ground, leave the sides of the pit untextured, and it looks like a normal empty flat until it instantly raises with the monsters.

 

I don't like it either and agree with @seed. One of my earlier maps, I think Quantum Strike map02, had an instapop Cyberdemon in front of a switch. I then changed him to an instapop Nazi as a joke, and finally to an instapop... Zombieman corpse which made it to the final version. Generally, I prefer the turbo-speed rising floor in Boom. It still makes the enemies show up quickly but at least has some kind of animation of them rising out of the ground rather than just appearing out of thin air.

[Scypek2]

Another (and vanilla-compatible) nice-looking alternative to instapop can be instant teleport ambushes. They can be tricky to set up, and tedious with larger monster group since each monster needs their own sector, tag and teleport destination, but it can be pretty spectacular, and more versatile. It's just like a regular teleporter trap, except the teleporter line in the monster closet is one unit away from the monster's center, the monster is stuck so tightly it cannot move at all until the barrier is gone, and the barrier is at such a height that it only needs to move one map unit before the monster can move (for example, it's a lowering floor raised 25 units up). Then the monster teleports immediately as soon as you cross the trigger line.

 

It's similar to the rocket launcher ambush in Doom 2's MAP13, except in that one the barrier walls are much higher than necessary and the teleport lines are not as close to the demons as they could've been.

 

Edited March 7, 2021 by Scypek2

[LadyMistDragon]

TNT Evilution is largely not bad at all, apart from a few notable exceptions. Many of the maps that aren't complete trash that people complain about such as Quarry and Baron's Den are merely mediocre.

 

Andrew Hulshult is actually not that good of a composer and tends to do rather dull and monotonous tracks more often than not. I have to give him for his strong remastering of the ROTT soundtrack, but there's no real melodic twists of any sort. I'd rather listen to something like Sonic Mayhem than this.

[Wavy]

On 3/1/2021 at 8:57 AM, DRMman said:

Playing without mouselook or any modern additions is not a valid playstyle anymore, it's not the 90's anymore, time has passed us by, and it's time to move on.

You're saying this on a forum made in the 90's about a game made in the 90's.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Wavy

[DRM-MAN]

17 minutes ago, Wavy said:

You're saying this on a forum made in the 90's about a game made in the 90's.

Key word is opinion, you're free to not respect it, but considering the bitterness that i have surrounding this kind of topic, maybe i went a bit too far for the doom community.

[Tanksy]

I don't see the logic behind people choosing to play with Vanilla DOOM's technical limitations and bugs when we've got decades of improvements and extensions available that mostly just serve to bring the old engine more in-line with where the engine went with future titles.

 

It comes across to me as pissing on Carmack's principle of releasing cutting-edge source code with the express intention of sharing the progress made in the technology, allowing it to further progress long after they stop officially supporting it.

 

In any other game, you'd want to be on the latest patch with the latest fixes. Why should DOOM be any different?

Edited March 7, 2021 by Tanksy

[wallabra]

9 hours ago, seed said:

No-one's ever going to convince me that's not cheap.

 

They aren't, they were bought at Bad Dragon.

[0o0[ULTIM4TE]L1FE[F0RM]0o0]

I hate the Majority of Doom 2... and I prefer Ultimate Doom over Doom 2

[esselfortium]

5 hours ago, Tanksy said:

I don't see the logic behind people choosing to play with Vanilla DOOM's technical limitations and bugs when we've got decades of improvements and extensions available that mostly just serve to bring the old engine more in-line with where the engine went with future titles.

 

It comes across to me as pissing on Carmack's principle of releasing cutting-edge source code with the express intention of sharing the progress made in the technology, allowing it to further progress long after they stop officially supporting it.

 

In any other game, you'd want to be on the latest patch with the latest fixes. Why should DOOM be any different?

Because it's a fun technical challenge.

[0o0[ULTIM4TE]L1FE[F0RM]0o0]

I like the feeling of Vanilla Doom

[KeaganDunn]

5 hours ago, Tanksy said:

I don't see the logic behind people choosing to play with Vanilla DOOM's technical limitations and bugs when we've got decades of improvements and extensions available that mostly just serve to bring the old engine more in-line with where the engine went with future titles.

 

It comes across to me as pissing on Carmack's principle of releasing cutting-edge source code with the express intention of sharing the progress made in the technology, allowing it to further progress long after they stop officially supporting it.

 

In any other game, you'd want to be on the latest patch with the latest fixes. Why should DOOM be any different?

I have to agree with this. I would rather die to my own mistakes rather than a game bug. It's why I've hated PrBoom as of late.

 

Infinitely-tall actors? Lost Soul limit? Blockmap bug? The difficulty in punching wider enemies? Noclipping projectiles? Inconsistent linedef skips? Intercept overflow causing an all-ghost glitch?

No thanks. GZDoom it is.

[ReaperAA]

I agree with both seed and Spectre01 that instant pop-ins are kinda cheap. Enemies appearing suddenly out of thin air. I much prefer teleporting enemies.

 

Though I like well designed monster closets over both.

[seed]

6 hours ago, Gustavo6046 said:

They aren't, they were bought at Bad Dragon.

 

Dang, that really got me there 👌.

[CyberHog]

TNT: Evilution is my favorite IWAD.

 

 

[QuaketallicA]

I love Doom 3 (though I guess that's not terribly unpopular to say), and the Marauder isn't that hard of an enemy, if you know what you're doing.

 

I think Doom (2016) was really overrated. It had some decent first few levels, but after you go to Kadingir Sanctum it all goes downhill fast. Thankfully Doom Eternal learned from its flaws and really balanced out the movement and combat, but Doom (2016) really irritates me at times.

 

Doom 64 is probably my least favorite Doom, which is weird, because I find it perfectly fine as a game. Good levels, good atmosphere, good spritework. I dunno, I guess it just bores me. The game was intended to be played on an N64, and on PC the combat isn't challenging enough to really be as fun. And while I love the Aubrey Hodges main theme for Doom, the eerie soundtrack in the actual levels, while good, is not as fun to play with as the Bobby Prince ost. 

 

Edit: Also, I don't know if this is popular or not, but the original Doom II Icon of Sin boss fight is still the most iconic, most challenging, and most interesting boss fight imo of any id Software title (well at least the ones I've played. I haven't played the newer Wolfensteins).

Edit 2: I prefer OPL/Soundblaster 2 over Roland SC-55 for Doom Midi

Edited March 7, 2021 by QuaketallicA

[Doomkid]

11 hours ago, Tanksy said:

I don't see the logic behind people choosing to play with Vanilla DOOM's technical limitations and bugs when we've got decades of improvements and extensions available that mostly just serve to bring the old engine more in-line with where the engine went with future titles.

 

It comes across to me as pissing on Carmack's principle of releasing cutting-edge source code with the express intention of sharing the progress made in the technology, allowing it to further progress long after they stop officially supporting it.

Having watched a lot of speedrunning videos, I can safely say that bugs and limitations sometimes add to the fun for certain people, because of course, different people have fun in different ways.

 

Super Mario Bros. would feel incomplete without many of the bugs speedrunners take advantage of to get time cut down. In the same vein, Doom would feels incomplete to many of us without superfast wallrunning, stuff that requires skill in DM such as plasma bumping and so forth. There are so many other games this is true for as well. Sometimes working around infinitely tall actors is a fun challenge.

 

Is it really that hard to imagine that bugs and limitations are enjoyable to people? There's whole videos with millions of views on YT that consist of people messing around with and enjoying various limitations, glitches etc in classic games. Carmack wanted people to expand the engine but saying that enjoying some of the bugs, exploits and limits of the vanilla game is "pissing on Carmack's principle" is over the top, lol

 

On 3/6/2021 at 4:14 PM, jmac said:

Lost souls aren't annoying, and they don't need less health. Everyone seems to hate them, but I really don't get it.

"One lost soul, one SSG blast." It's a perfect balance!

 

14 hours ago, Spectre01 said:

I don't like it either and agree with @seed. One of my earlier maps, I think Quantum Strike map02, had an instapop Cyberdemon in front of a switch. I then changed him to an instapop Nazi as a joke, and finally to an instapop... Zombieman corpse which made it to the final version. Generally, I prefer the turbo-speed rising floor in Boom. It still makes the enemies show up quickly but at least has some kind of animation of them rising out of the ground rather than just appearing out of thin air.

Although I'm not anti instapop, I do think it can look pretty janky on the visual side. I have in the past reallocated an object in Doom to play the teleport animation once it "sees" the Doomguy. This way, when the instapop monsters come up, it sort of looks like they all teleported in unison.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Doomkid

[MattFright]

Here's my (first?) hot take here: Deathmatch aside, the Plasma Rifle barely fills a niche in Doom's arsenal and as a consequence is just really boring to use (both as a player and mapper).

[Gokuma]

5 hours ago, Dunn & Dunn said:

I have to agree with this. I would rather die to my own mistakes rather than a game bug. It's why I've hated PrBoom as of late.

 

Infinitely-tall actors? Lost Soul limit? Blockmap bug? The difficulty in punching wider enemies? Noclipping projectiles? Inconsistent linedef skips? Intercept overflow causing an all-ghost glitch?

No thanks. GZDoom it is.

 

I definitely think all those bugs except the Lost Soul limit should be toggled to be fixed by default, except when recording a demo with the ports that are doom.exe demo compatible.

[Tanksy]

1 minute ago, Doomkid said:

Is it really that hard to image that bugs and limitations are enjoyable to people? There's whole videos with millions of views on YT that consist of people messing around with and enjoying various limitations, glitches etc in classic games. Carmack wanted people to expand the engine but saying that enjoying some of the bugs, exploits and limits of the vanilla game is "pissing on Carmack's principle" is so over the top, lol

 

Whilst exploits can be fun I don't like that they are trophied so hard.

It's a fun examination of engine quirks and bugs, allowing you to do crazy things that break out from the intended play - but you're essentially forcing your own cheats into the game by breaking it, and it's for that same reason I think speedruns that abuse exploits and bugs just don't count as really 'skilled play' of DOOM, because they're simply playing a different game at that point.

 

I'm not saying that bugs and such aren't enjoyable, but come on -- we've had decades of time to get over them, source ports that fix them, and the whole game experience is better off for it.

 

and yes i am over the top. but I do so with love. <3

[omx32x]

41 minutes ago, MattFright said:

Here's my (first?) hot take here: Deathmatch aside, the Plasma Rifle barely fills a niche in Doom's arsenal and as a consequence is just really boring to use (both as a player and mapper).

it has its uses

its usefull to flank people on hallways like in map01 or to kill lots of people when theres an big arena with players running around

though i dont think it has too many uses on modern dm maps

i think its a weapon that is way more usefull in duels

[Tanksy]

47 minutes ago, MattFright said:

Here's my (first?) hot take here: Deathmatch aside, the Plasma Rifle barely fills a niche in Doom's arsenal and as a consequence is just really boring to use (both as a player and mapper).

It's a weirdly rapid-fire yet perfectly accurate sniper.

[seed]

1 hour ago, Doomkid said:

Although I'm not anti instapop, I do think it can look pretty janky on the visual side.

 

It's janky gameplay-side as well, since entering a new area only to get assaulted by instapops is rarely, if ever fun in a map.

 

Early maps of Speed of Doom were especially bad here. The fact that Resurgence mostly got rid of them made it instantly superior in my book.

[Doomkid]

IF they instapop right in your face that's pretty janky, but if there's room it's really not. Even if it's chaingunners, a well designed map can use "distant instapop" just fine and will provide cover when it faces you against lots of hitscanners. Often used in a frustrating way but not at all inherently janky!

 

I use it all the time to prevent monsters from waking up until the player has entered the right area. I guess doing it in a distant or not immediately visible way isn't what people think of when they talk about instapop, though.

Edited March 7, 2021 by Doomkid

[Doomkid]

1 hour ago, Tanksy said:

It's a fun examination of engine quirks and bugs, allowing you to do crazy things that break out from the intended play - but you're essentially forcing your own cheats into the game by breaking it, and it's for that same reason I think speedruns that abuse exploits and bugs just don't count as really 'skilled play' of DOOM, because they're simply playing a different game at that point.

 

I'm not saying that bugs and such aren't enjoyable, but come on -- we've had decades of time to get over them, source ports that fix them, and the whole game experience is better off for it.

 

I disagree.

[Pompeji]

On 3/6/2021 at 8:19 AM, Tanksy said:

 

I think teleport closets are just given a bad rep by lazy mappers. They can be used in more clever ways than just flood-filling a room with revenants and arch-viles.

 

And for another controversial opinion:

Slaughter maps are, more often than not, very boring and show the designer's laziness.

 

I agree with this one- I'm building a map that includes a Cyberdemon boss fight and there's a teleport closet activated by sound. Soon as you fire a shot, the room is flooded with Arachnotrons, Mancubi and Revenants. Idea is the player will circlestrafe around the many pillars I have provided for cover, and use infighting to weaken the Cyberdemon(s if you're playing on UV) as to not run out of ammo. I think when used properly, closets can provide for a challenging and fun experience. 

[sincity2100]

Downtown > Odyssey of Noises..