Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

[Kyka]

Having now finished most of A.L.T.wad, I realised that this is the megawad that has captured the true TNT:Evilution experience like no other level set. Tough traps: check. Story/narrative driven maps: check. Really interesting and unique ideas: check. Texturing that ranges from superb and majestic to occasionally weird and ugly: check. Some of the most interesting visual areas and epic scenery that I have seen in a 'clasic' mapset: check.

 

In short, A.L.T.wad is the  only megawad worthy of being anything like a spiritual successor to Evilution. Fight me.*

 

*That said, Revilution was superb and I really enjoyed playing it in its entirety. But it wasn't really a true successor to Evilution. Deserved a cacoward imo. And, (controversial opinion here,) I think TNT2, when it finally drops, is going to be 'one of those' modern megawads. Superbly designed, textured and planned, perfect in every detail, as only modern megawads such as BTSX, can be. But will have that "designed by committee," thing going on, which will constrain the creative risktaking required to take it to the very limits of creative vision that would be required to walk in the expansive, Dali-esque footsteps of the original Evilution.**

 

**That said, I am still gonna play TNT2 when it comes out, probably a bunch of times, and I know I will thoroughly enjoy it and it will be rightly lauded and will win a cacoward, and be held in high regard along with such megawads as PRCP.wad and PL2.wad, and I will still be profoundly grateful that such talented people are dedicating their time and effort to allow me to enjoy quality megawads on such a continual basis. But my intuition tells me that it won't go boldly to those far away, lonely, weird, occasionally annoying and just plain wrong places that a true spiritual successor to Evilution would go.***

 

***Also, forgive the inherent arrogance in this post, judging a megawad even before it is released. But, y'know, controversial...****

 

****Also. soz tl;dr

 

Also, I look forward to Convilution, Provilution, Weevilution, Hamolution, Samelution, Absilution, Kneevilution, Beevilution, Stuvilution, and all the other tnt -ilution sequel megawads that are currently in the making.

 

Or something.

Edited June 27, 2021 by bLOCKbOYgAMES

[BedrockCastle]

The Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind are really underwhelming in every instance of their existence in both Ultimate Doom and Doom 2. They're all ridiculously easy to dispose of.

 

The enemies are hard to fight in theory, but their placement in all the levels is just not a challenge, even on UV.

[roadworx]

4 hours ago, BedrockCastle said:

The Cyberdemon and Spider Mastermind are really underwhelming in every instance of their existence in both Ultimate Doom and Doom 2. They're all ridiculously easy to dispose of.

 

The enemies are hard to fight in theory, but their placement in all the levels is just not a challenge, even on UV.

this isn't controversial

 

 

actually i think thinking they're not underwhelming is more controversial

[TheMightyHeracross]

There is one counterexample: that Cyberdemon in E4M6 is pretty mean. But the actual boss levels are pretty weak yeah.

[roadworx]

1 minute ago, TheMightyHeracross said:

There is one counterexample: that Cyberdemon in E4M6 is pretty mean. But the actual boss levels are pretty weak yeah.

oh, i've never played episode 4 so i'd have no idea lol

[Shepardus]

The cyberdemon in E4M7 would pose a threat... if it weren't placed next to an invulnerability sphere, a BFG, and a bunch of cells. The one in E4M6 can also be dealt with using invulnerability, but since the invulnerability sphere is in a different part of the map, you have to make the conscious decision to save it for the cyberdemon (and not get lost after picking it up).

[Maximum Matt]

Don't know/care if this is a controversial take or not... but I just clocked Memento Mori II today, and really enjoyed that bastard.  

[Cruduxy Pegg]

Only reason people think E4M1 is hard is because they waste their shells on the imps and shotgunners at spawn instead of pistoling them.

[Wad overdose]

Andrew and David made the soundtracks for tag 1 and 2 more similar to those that Gordon did for doom 4 (1.0) than doom 2016 or the original eternal campaign himself!

Edited July 1, 2021 by Wad overdose

[Wad overdose]

14 hours ago, BedrockCastle said:

Cyberdemon и Spider Mastermind действительно не впечатляют в каждом случае своего существования как в Ultimate Doom, так и в Doom 2. От них всех до смешного легко избавиться.

 

Теоретически с врагами сложно сражаться, но их размещение на всех уровнях - не проблема, даже на УФ.

Agreed

[Gez]

If the levels in Doom and Doom II were hard enough to still be considered challenging nowadays, the games would probably have been a commercial failure due to a reputation of being total bullshit.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

2 minutes ago, Gez said:

If the levels in Doom and Doom II were hard enough to still be considered challenging nowadays, the games would probably have been a commercial failure due to a reputation of being total bullshit.

 

I don't think so ( assuming UV or Nightmare were what's boosted, and not turning even skill 1 into crazy bs). The devs made sure to have the lower difficulty levels around to be a viable introduction to players ( this is way more important to the game than whatever skill ceiling the game can hold up to ). UV was probably the most bs the devs could handle without needing to resort to saves and cheats at the time. Nightmare is bs after all but that didn't harm the game sales, probably hurt a lot of people who tried to beat it though :P.

[D4NUK1]

The difficulty spike in game it's really something to take in account.

 

I heard more playera beating Doom 1 and 2,  that Duke nukem 3D or other doom clones, and all because Doom was more compact and easy to play.

[Kyka]

58 minutes ago, Gez said:

If the levels in Doom and Doom II were hard enough to still be considered challenging nowadays, the games would probably have been a commercial failure due to a reputation of being total bullshit.

 

I agree that it would have certainly been less of a commercial success, but I think that it still would have been a huge success. This is because:

 

1)Deathmatch - Doom would still have been on a awful lot of PC's due to this alone.

2)Hype - Doom would have sold well, and in massive numbers because of the hype associated with it, even if many were put off after the fact by its difficulty.

3)Games were immensely more difficult then, and I know myself, I persevered and finished games that I simply can't be bothered with now.

4)People were seriously devoted to this game back then. You could have made a case that a harder difficulty may have made it sell more copies. It does seem to me that in general, the 'casual' gamer (if there was such a thing outside of arcades in 1993,) would still love this game for its novelty and its uniqueness, even if it was tooo hard for many.

5) Shareware for the win! People would have bought it anyway. 

6)Doom was so novel and so unique for its time that it would have sold millions irrespective of how hard it was.

 

That said, I am happy to be wrong, and Doom may well have died a quiet death if it proved to be far too difficult for the average gamer. In that case, I suspect, a hypothetically bankrupt id would have sold the engine and the rights to someone else, who would have made something similar after the fact. (As happened with the many doom clones anyway.) So history would have probably averaged out, and we would have ended up more or less where we are now all the same.

 

The only real difference I can see is that Doom would have not gained this cult following, and we wouldn't be having this conversation on this Forum. Instead, inagine a world in which we were all members of the Corridor7world.com forums. Doesn't quite roll off the tongue like "Doomworld" does, does it?

[Pirx]

On 6/27/2021 at 6:35 PM, bLOCKbOYgAMES said:

 

 

Also, I look forward to Convilution, Provilution, Weevilution, Hamolution, Samelution, Absilution, Kneevilution, Beevilution, Stuvilution, and all the other tnt -ilution sequel megawads that are currently in the making.

 

Or something.

 

with all the sewers levels in doom, Pollution will suffice.

[Muusi]

Can i bring nuDoom here? I think the proper way to play both nuDooms is to turn off the music. I think it's not all that great and the ambience enhances the experience. 

[Maes]

On 7/1/2021 at 3:05 PM, Gez said:

If the levels in Doom and Doom II were hard enough to still be considered challenging nowadays, the games would probably have been a commercial failure due to a reputation of being total bullshit.

 

Well, even vanilla Doom levels can be considered "challenging" if you try playing them under stricter constraints -e.g. UV without dying/without saving, from pistol starts, even without resorting to NM or -fast.

 

But that was not the way the average player approaches them, especially not back then. In fact, Doom's ability to save anywhere freely and -relatively- accurately, was not such a given at the time, so ofc the average player save-scummed. This made even Plutonia look less of a chore than it actually was.

[xdarkmasterx]

15 minutes ago, Maes said:

 

Well, even vanilla Doom levels can be considered "challenging" if you try playing them under stricter constraints -e.g. UV without dying/without saving, from pistol starts,

 

 

Kirby's Epic Yarn is probably the hardest game in the world if you play it blindfolded, sitting on a bed of nails with venomous snakes biting your nuts but that doesn't make the game itself difficult :p

[Maes]

Sure, but today, unlike 1994, nobody is going to say "Wow! Ur a 1337 h4xx0r pr0 g4m3r d00d!" if you simply claim "I finished Doom on UV", meaning the base Doom game with 3 episodes.

 

They are gonna ask you stuff like "With -fast? -respawn? Pistol starts? No saves? 100% kills/secrets/items? Alll IWADs?". My point is, standards have gone up. And if you point out that, well, you can only play so well with keyboard controls...nobody uses those anymore, either.

 

Standards and expectations for what constitutes "difficult" or "challenging" have changed a lot since then. Some IWADs/PWADs were tougher than others, OK, and still retain their "bite" today, but the stock stuff...not so much, unless we're talking E4 or Plutonia.

 

 

 

OK, nobody was gonna say "1337 h4xx0r" in 1994. :-)
 

 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Maes

[out_of_service]

9 hours ago, Muusi said:

Can i bring nuDoom here? I think the proper way to play both nuDooms is to turn off the music. I think it's not all that great and the ambience enhances the experience. 

Hey there's nothing wrong with that. I enjoy "nuDooms" music, but it's not everyones bag of chips. Speaking from my experience, depending on the game, I'll turn off the music and substitute it with my own, or a podcast etc.

[Azure_Horror]

All this talk about different ways to play OG doom reminded me...

 

Controversial opinions:

1) Saving anywhere is the greatest accessibility feature of the OG Doom games.

2) The lack of easy to manage save-slots is the biggest shortcoming of both Doom Eternal and Doom 2016.

3) Difficult games should provide an opportunity to isolate and practice particular difficult parts if the player so desires. Lack of such opportunities is an objectively negative trait. (Caveat: Ironman mode is good. What is bad, is when the long difficult game allows only Ironman mode)

[A Nobody]

Would alt fires have benefited Doom?

[Yumheart]

The Chasm is my favourite map in Doom 2.

[roadworx]

21 hours ago, The Strife Commando said:

Would alt fires have benefited Doom?

no

[DOEL]

@Maes I know of at least 1 UV Max runner who uses keyboard only and he's really damn good

[Maes]

20 minutes ago, DOEL said:

@Maes I know of at least 1 UV Max runner who uses keyboard only and he's really damn good

 

The point is not whether you can play well or even "pretty damn good" on keyboard, gamepad or the Rolling Rocker, if you have to. The question is how you will fare against a player using what's considered the optimal control scheme. It's all a matter of relative performance. If e.g. the best keyboard or whatever player can match the performance of the best WASD+mouse player.

 

BUT, as long as there are no controller-restricted COMPET-N leagues, I guess we'll never find out...

 

BTW, IMO the above is a purely academical diatribe, like asking who'd be the fastest in a 100m sprint between, well, any competent 100m sprint athlete (not even the world champion), vs the fastest military games athlete, in full combat gear and jackboots :-)

[princetontiger]

On 7/2/2021 at 10:44 AM, xdarkmasterx said:

 

Kirby's Epic Yarn is probably the hardest game in the world if you play it blindfolded, sitting on a bed of nails with venomous snakes biting your nuts but that doesn't make the game itself difficult :p

Ahahahahahahaa

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

On 7/4/2021 at 1:06 PM, The Strife Commando said:

Would alt fires have benefited Doom?

Sure, if you want your DOOM to come with a truckload of balance issues.

[Kyka]

On 7/3/2021 at 12:44 AM, xdarkmasterx said:

 

Kirby's Epic Yarn is probably the hardest game in the world if you play it blindfolded, sitting on a bed of nails with venomous snakes biting your nuts but that doesn't make the game itself difficult :p

 

Sadly Amazon doesn't sell the control scheme you have mentioned here.

 

... I also think that beating Looper's current UV-speed World Record would be harder then Kirby's yarn thing using this particular control setup.

Edited July 5, 2021 by bLOCKbOYgAMES

[Scypek2]

On 7/4/2021 at 7:06 PM, The Strife Commando said:

Would alt fires have benefited Doom?

 

It could've made it better, it could've made it worse, it could vary wildly depending on how it's implemented. One inherent downside would be adding another button to the mix... unless they just worked like they do in Strife. I can see some potential alterations to weapons that wouldn't upset the balance too much...