Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

[Fairen]

WADs need to do away with the whole "sniper Imps on a distant/high ledge" thing. It's not particularly hard to avoid, but they're usually a pain to kill since they're typically far enough away to require several shotgun shots.

 

I'm playing Knee-Deep in ZDoom, and I'm just constantly wondering...why is the ultimate weapon just...A Rifle. It's ludicrous. You get plenty of ammo for it, it does the same damage as a super-shotgun blast, except it's rapid-fire and perfectly-accurate. Pair of those lion-jerks with shields? A Rifle. What's those black barons' deal? I dunno, A Rifle kills them in six shots, two seconds.

 

The worst part about it is all of its imp variants have that "takes too many shotgun blasts from a distance" problem so you would think a long-range precision weapon would be nice, but no, using A Rifle on them is pretty much overkill.

 

Seriously, I kind of want a mod to replace the BFG 9000 in any WAD I play with A Rifle. Just have it take 10 cells a shot, I think that's fair. god I'd love this thing for revenants

[Li'l devil]

I know how to solve the "too many contenders for Cacowards" problem. People should just stop making as many good wads per year as they do now. It's literally that simple.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Li'l devil

[Biodegradable]

1 hour ago, Li'l devil said:

I know how to solve the "too many contenders for Cacowards" problem. People should just stop making as many good wads per year as they do now. It's literally that simple.

 

Clearly, the community is simply too damn talented for its own good. Stop being so bloody clever, you lot! ;^P

[Clippy]

Icon of sin sux so I tried to come up with a different ending in my cliptucky chicken wad 

 

There ya go lol

 

 

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

5 hours ago, Fairen said:

I'm playing Knee-Deep in ZDoom, and I'm just constantly wondering...why is the ultimate weapon just...A Rifle. It's ludicrous. You get plenty of ammo for it, it does the same damage as a super-shotgun blast, except it's rapid-fire and perfectly-accurate. Pair of those lion-jerks with shields? A Rifle. What's those black barons' deal? I dunno, A Rifle kills them in six shots, two seconds.

Pretty much nothing about KDiZD makes any sense. By far the worst WAD I have ever completed (though one of the maps was such a torturous and boring slog I skipped it even though I was likely near the end).

Edited July 24, 2021 by TheMagicMushroomMan

[Doomkid]

I don't exactly know if this is controversial since I think a number of people agree, but my eyes like old/kinda ugly/basic texturing more than the stuff that pops visually.

 

I know that's lame in a sense, but old-style texturing has a mostly muted palette which makes it feel easier to focus on the monsters and combat and such. By no means intended as a slight against mappers who use brighter colors and more extravagant shapes, but my eyes are almost inherently drawn away from the action or my focus is otherwise broken in pretty arenas that use the vibrant tri-tone color scheme. In some plain ass building or field or on a beach or something, it's way easier for me to focus on the combat and get "immersed in the world", even if it's a basic one.

 

This rant made me realize I need to change my title back and leave it. Nothing will ever be more accurate..

 

What I would really love is an episode that starts out as plain-jane as possible and ends up with the final map being uber-detailed and colorful. Used sparingly I think it's an amazing style, but a wad that really gave me "fatigue" recently (despite being a wad that was clearly made with care) was the MSCP, and not because of the actual enemy encounters - which were specifically designed to not be a slog - but just because of the combination of the numerous tri-tone maps with the fact that the world didn't feel "real" or something. Not having a sense of place that's grounded in reality is almost disorienting for me, and yes, I know that's dumb.

 

On 7/22/2021 at 12:30 AM, Roofi said:

DM mappers who don't set exit in their maps must go to hell !

Of the almost 100 DM maps I've ever made, I'd say maybe 3-4 don't have exits out of sheer forgetfulness and all being made in a post-ZDoom world with set fraglimits :) Hopefully my ratio is good enough for me to get off the chopping block

[SLOTH MARINE (CB)]

Doom is better with software rendering 

[ASON-Z-]

I think Doom 1 & 2 are the greatest fps games ever made. Nothing else even comes close to matching them. 

They are timeless in every sense of the word.

Whenever I start playing, I just can't stop unless I force myself.

No other game has really had the effect on me that Doom does.

Hell not even the newer Doom games, and I think they're great.

And I suppose I could share one little opinion on the newer Doom games.

I really do like them, but they just don't feel as Evil or intimidating as the original's, if that makes sense.

I just don't really get that same vibe.  

Edited July 24, 2021 by ASON-Z-

[roadworx]

10 minutes ago, Doomkid said:

I don't exactly know if this is controversial since I think a number of people agree, but my eyes like old/kinda ugly/basic texturing more than the stuff that pops visually.

 

I know that's lame in a sense, but old-style texturing has a mostly muted palette which makes it feel easier to focus on the monsters and combat and such. By no means intended as a slight against mappers who use brighter colors and more extravagant shapes, but my eyes are almost inherently drawn away from the action or my focus is otherwise broken in pretty arenas that use the vibrant tri-tone color scheme. In some plain ass building or field or on a beach or something, it's way easier for me to focus on the combat and get "immersed in the world", even if it's a basic one.

honestly, yeah, i agree - i'm ofc a bit influenced because i prefer desaturated colors over vibrant ones, but at the same time i feel like it both fits the overall feel of doom moreso than saturated colors and, as you said, keeps you grounded and focused on the game. having a few colors that stand out is good ofc, but having a primarily vibrant palette kinda turns it into a different experience altogether

 

[dei_eldren]

Doom I bestiary is perfect.  Doom II has more variety, but ultimately it's a bit of a circus sideshow.  Yes, you can create 'more interesting' combat scenarios and make things more difficult strategically, but that all comes with the expense of turning it into more of a cartoon.

 

i don't dislike Doom II's bestiary, for what it is, is fine, but for me, everyone else but maybe the Arch-Vile, are just over the top and result of what can we invent? instead of having solid ideas to start with and to build upon - exactly the reverse, i think, as the case of Doom I.  Sort of typical sequel stuff.

[Cruduxy Pegg]

30 minutes ago, dei_eldren said:

Doom I bestiary is perfect.  Doom II has more variety, but ultimately it's a bit of a circus sideshow.  Yes, you can create 'more interesting' combat scenarios and make things more difficult strategically, but that all comes with the expense of turning it into more of a cartoon.

 

i don't dislike Doom II's bestiary, for what it is, is fine, but for me, everyone else but maybe the Arch-Vile, are just over the top and result of what can we invent? instead of having solid ideas to start with and to build upon - exactly the reverse, i think, as the case of Doom I.  Sort of typical sequel stuff.

Yes they should've added 5 more imp variants instead.

[continuum.mid]

I'm apparently supposed to post non-controversial opinions here now, so I will opine that Japanese Community Project is a good WAD. You should play it, if you haven't yet.

 

Also, making MIDI packs for the sake of making MIDI packs is a good enough reason. Taking a good map and using it as a base for music is just fun.

Edited July 24, 2021 by northivanastan

[Nine Inch Heels]

37 minutes ago, dei_eldren said:

i don't dislike Doom II's bestiary, for what it is, is fine, but for me, everyone else but maybe the Arch-Vile, are just over the top and result of what can we invent? instead of having solid ideas to start with and to build upon - exactly the reverse, i think, as the case of Doom I.  Sort of typical sequel stuff.

I think you have it backwards, because all the enemies added to doom2, if perhaps a bit over the top on first glance, address gaps in Doom's roster, and they're not too shabby at that either...

 

Doom 1 roster consists entirely out of hitscanners, and straight-line, single-projectile shooters... There is literally nothing else, other than Demons and Spectres (which are technically hitscan enemies with a very short range, IIRC)... This means that you can circle strafe any monster in doom that isn't a hitscanner, and you're practically invulnerable... Doom 1 gameplay loop is simple enough: Pluck scanners from a corner, and "tap-dodge/circlestrafe" anything that is projectile based... You won't "tap-dodge" a homing revenant missile, though, and depending on distance, you might not even circle strafe a mancubus to death, because one of its 2 projectiles might get you... The added monsters in doom2 are much less a result of "can we do this - if so, let's do this for the sake of doing it", and much more a result of "we need this game to have these things to change how players need to play when these things are around"... Maybe not all new monsters are a result of that "mindset", at least not entirely, but most of the new stuff in doom2 hits very specific spots in the game for very specific reasons...

Edited July 24, 2021 by Nine Inch Heels

[dei_eldren]

4 minutes ago, Pegg said:

Yes they should've added 5 more imp variants instead.

 

i didn't say they should have added anything at all, if you think so...

[dei_eldren]

2 minutes ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

I think you have it backwards, because all the enemies added to doom2, if perhaps a bit over the top on first glance, address gaps in Doom's roster, and they're not too shabby at that either...

 

Doom 1 roster consists entirely out of hitscanners, and straight-line, single-projectile shooters... There is literally nothing else, other than Demons and Spectres (which are technically hitscan enemies with a very short range, IIRC)... This means that you can circle strafe any monster in doom that isn't a hitscanner, and you're practically invulnerable... Doom 1 gameplay loop is simple enough: Pluck scanners from a corner, and "tap-dodge/circlestrafe" anything that is projectile based... You won't "tap-dodge" a revenant missile, though, and depending on distance, you might not even circle strafe a mancubus to death, because one of its 2 projectiles might get you... The added monsters are doom2 are much less a result of "can we do this - if so, let's do this for the sake of doing it), and much more a result of "we need this game to have these things to change how players need to play when these things are around... Maybe not all new monsters are a result of that "mindset", at least not entirely, but most of the new stuff in doom2 hits very specific spots in the game for very specific reasons...

 

Yeah, i understand perfectly well they were 'thought out' strategically and in sense of gameplay, whereas i was referring to the bestiary itself, outside of gameplay-considerations.  And consequently my point is that the bestiary itself suffers from sophisticated strategical intentions, and that the ideas for them, such as the Mancubus or Revenant, were result of needing to invent something to fulfill those strategic holes.  Like i said, a circus sideshow.  More bang for your buck, more of everything, bigger better faster, maybe, but - over the top.  That's my point.

 

My opinion still remains, that only Arch-Vile is a solid new member from my point of view.

[roadworx]

2 hours ago, dei_eldren said:

 

Yeah, i understand perfectly well they were 'thought out' strategically and in sense of gameplay, whereas i was referring to the bestiary itself, outside of gameplay-considerations.  And consequently my point is that the bestiary itself suffers from sophisticated strategical intentions, and that the ideas for them, such as the Mancubus or Revenant, were result of needing to invent something to fulfill those strategic holes.  Like i said, a circus sideshow.  More bang for your buck, more of everything, bigger better faster, maybe, but - over the top.  That's my point.

 

My opinion still remains, that only Arch-Vile is a solid new member from my point of view.

you do realize that those enemies were already thought up of while doom 1 was in development, right? they just weren't added cuz of time constraints

[dei_eldren]

1 hour ago, roadworx said:

you do realize that those enemies were already thought up of while doom 1 was in development, right? they just weren't added cuz of time constraints

 

i'm sure they were thinking of the sequel at some point, and what they could possibly add to it to make it more challenging.  i'm not saying any of it is wrong or bad, only that the bestiary in the original, while strategically inferior, is to me more definitive.  After Doom II anything goes, i mean, if you make demons like Mancubus the sky is the limit.  Whether that's good or bad is anybody's opinion, i prefer the more limited in scope bestiary of the original - not because it's more limited, but in spite of it.

[Fairen]

6 hours ago, TheMagicMushroomMan said:

Pretty much nothing about KDiZD makes any sense. By far the worst WAD I have ever completed (though one of the maps was such a torturous and boring slog I skipped it even though I was likely near the end).

Gosh, the youthful naivety of a soul yet to experience Plutonia "sequel" WADs...

 

I'm enjoying KDiZD. It's overly labyrinthine at times, and I'm not big on the abundance of enemies that are just minor variations on original enemies, but in general it's fun and a nice-looking reimagining of Knee-Deep in the Dead.

 

Heck, it might be fun to just go through constantly idfa-ing just so I can blow everything away with A Rifle.

 

Edit: Completed KDiZD. Final bosses were...well, show me a final boss that isn't a pushover when you show up with ~130 rounds for A Rifle.

Edited July 24, 2021 by Fairen

[OniriA]

A lot of modern era Doom wads in the vein of BTSX, Dtwid, No End In Sight or Mayhem series etc. are very boring to play

and often don't do much for me despite the initial hype often surrounding these projects.

 

Something that often kills my immersion is when I find Egyptian texture's and objects within Maya / Aztec maps and vice versa.

I mean, what the fuck is that Egyptian Sphinx doing in a Meso-American setting?

 

As a big history buff its something that kind of triggers me and shows that the author didn't do much research on the differences between old civilizations and cultures or simply doesn't care. This issue isn't just delegated to this but also takes place in music where Western artists who create ethnic music are unaware of the subtle differences between cultures.

Putting Vedic chants glorifying Shiva in music that's supposed to be about Native American culture for example.      

Edited July 24, 2021 by OniriA

[TheMagicMushroomMan]

1 hour ago, Fairen said:

Gosh, the youthful naivety of a soul yet to experience Plutonia "sequel" WADs...

Plutonia 2 is pretty great IMO, but we don't talk about some of those Plutonia "sequels".

 

SilverMiner went on to become a pretty competent mapper though :) props to him for rising out of the mountain of poopoo that was hurled at him on that fateful day. 

[Nine Inch Heels]

18 hours ago, dei_eldren said:

bigger better faster, maybe, but - over the top.  That's my point

okay... I get where you're coming from with this, but what's more over the top than a brain that weighs in 3 gross register tons, that walks around on a pimped up scaffold, and "wields" what's essentially just a bigger machinegun...? any monster added in doom2 is far less ridiculous compared to the SMM... So... I dunno..

[RetroAkaMe]

I love Doom and uh yeah

 

Controversial opinion : I don't like any monster except the Arachnotron, the Spider Mastermind, and the caco.

[Li'l devil]

Yeah, I think SMMs and arachnotrons just don't fit well in Doom in terms of design. Other than that, imo both in Doom I and II there's some dissonance in tone when it comes to enemy design. For example, zombies, imps, barons look "serious", but revenants look kind of comical and cacodemons looks a bit cartoony. It has a good side tho in that the player can distinguish between enemies better. Heh, Doom 3 does the opposite, the theme is 100% consistent, but damn they all look grey, lol. Not that it matters because you can't see anything in Doom 3!
From the gameplay side of things, in Doom II some Doom I enemies feel very underpowered, and I think the devs missed an opportunity to improve them for Doom II. Especially, the pinky demons (their attack is too avoidable when you're not cornered) and the barons (need to have some unique ability compared to hell knights). Well, pinkies kinda have a purpose of being a "swarm" kind of enemy, but I don't think the devs intended that, and they were meant to be more dangerous than imps according to the hierarchy, but in practice they aren't.

 

Re: KDiZD... KDiZD... well, I liked it's overdetailed design, but some maps were too confusing, new weapons were out of place and looked straight up bad (SSG), some new enemies were also out of place (lion enemies with shield), so... 2/5 :)

[dei_eldren]

4 hours ago, Nine Inch Heels said:

okay... I get where you're coming from with this, but what's more over the top than a brain that weighs in 3 gross register tons, that walks around on a pimped up scaffold, and "wields" what's essentially just a bigger machinegun...? any monster added in doom2 is far less ridiculous compared to the SMM... So... I dunno..

 

i'll just call that outrageous so there's no problem there :D

Edited July 25, 2021 by dei_eldren

[CBM]

I think that DOOM needs a new Pain Elemental variant called a BEE-Holder... a striped beholder like meatball that spews bee's

[MclarenUV]

Doom 1 was, for the most part, boring and a slog to go through 

[Screamapillar]

Hell Keep is worst map in original trilogy. Underwhelming, low ammo count, relaying on infighting when there is not much place to move around, and gives you rocket launcher at end of map, which is for P-S completely useless. 

[DOEL]

strictly speaking of the combat, Eviternity and Valiant are overrated IMO. still not 100% sure why I feel that way. indistinct encounters? custom bestiary? complevel 11? I just don't know the maps well enough? who knows

[baja blast rd.]

7 hours ago, DOEL said:

strictly speaking of the combat, Eviternity and Valiant are overrated IMO. still not 100% sure why I feel that way. indistinct encounters? custom bestiary? complevel 11? I just don't know the maps well enough? who knows

 

I think all the super popular wads end up feeling overrated to some people, because the way it always works is that popularity differences (blue below) can be a lot bigger than quality differences. Some wads get talked about 10-20x more than other acclaimed, high-quality wads that are roughly as good. In some cases, that can even end up "hurting" their perception, when everyone starts with expectations that almost nothing can live up to.

 

 

edit: also just for clarity, I don't meant to suggest that slight quality increase = huge popularity increase. Each "curve" would have a somewhat different selection and ordering of wads. 

[DOEL]

also add BTSX episode 1 to my list of overrated. but for both combat *and* aesthetics