Post Your Opinions About Doom (Whether Controversial or Not)

[TheLippyServer]

On 4/10/2021 at 5:06 PM, DarkScythe13 said:

As for my opinions:

• Knee-Deep in the Dead isn’t as fun to play through as The Shores of Hell or Inferno - not just because theyre the most played but particularly because of the atmosphere (mix of hellish environments with tek stuff) or memorable moments of those later levels. Might also be the bright white sky and what I feel are boring base textures that are less appealing to me.
• I appreciate and enjoy most of Sandy’s Doom II maps, with the exception of Maps 9, 10 (which to my knowledge are levels other people tend to appreciate). Lost Soul presence in The Chasm aside, I feel the experimental ideas he used in such levels were actually really cool, and for the most part were each backed up with a pretty interesting atmosphere/aesthetic design (with exceptions - the area with the shotgunners in Nirvana wasnt too nice, but then I liked the area with the rock platforms.
• And that brings me to my last (sub) point - to me many of Sandy’s environments are what best represent Doom to me. I appreciate his surreal (not sure if thats the right word) but design and creativity with his environments. What i appreciate most about many Doom maps is that they dont necessarily resemble logical or realistic places. Many games that followed such as Duke 3d, Quake, Dark Forces etc, all had classic memorable maps. But theres something about the unique fun and interesting design of many Doom maps that I really appreciate. When I mess around in GZdoom builder its something i tend to try to explore and a style i try to replicate. While I appreciate many of the modern custom pwads out there, to me theres just something ‘just right’ and unique about many of Sandy’s levels that mange to encompass the experience for me, that’s almost never (or rarely) replicated.

 

I agree with all of these. E2 feels like much less of a slog to me than E1, and E3 is actually my favorite; Sandy's weirdo abstract-hell aesthetic is what usually pops into my head when someone brings up OG Doom, and along with the music is the reason I still play Doom at all. As for Doom 2, I think Sandy did a fantastic job for the amount of work he got stuck with. A lot of my favorite maps in the set are Sandy maps and of the 6 maps Romero did, I'd actually put at least 3 of them near the bottom. The Living End is the only one that feels distinctly made for a single player campaign experience, with the others feeling like repurposed deathmatch levels. They're also full of troll enemy placements and obtuse progression - not my favorites. American's stuff ain't perfect either; Map03 and Map05 I'd rank pretty low. Sandy's stuff isn't super consistent, but that's kind of to be expected when you're doing like 50% of the design work on a tight schedule. I'm kind of amazed he didn't just quit. Petersen gets serious kudos from me.

[Koko Ricky]

As fun as OG Doom and Doom 2 are to play through, there's a rough, ugly edge to a lot of the designs and texturing, and sometimes even lighting, that hasn't aged well. Mechanically and layout-wise, there's a lot to praise, and the assets themselves all look good. But there's a lot of places where, given the inexperience of the designers and the relative newness of 3D gaming, Doom just looks garish and tacky. The refinement that we see from decades of modding far surpasses the aesthetic quality of the original maps. What has really aged well is how nicely the maps often flow, both in terms of exploration and combat.

[Roofi]

I don't consider a wad as vanilla if I can't play it directly on DOSBOX.

[Ragu]

There are vanishingly few 32 map megawads that actually justify their length and most would benefit from cutting the map count in half

[Bob9001]

On 9/10/2021 at 12:29 PM, Koko Ricky said:

As fun as OG Doom and Doom 2 are to play through, there's a rough, ugly edge to a lot of the designs and texturing, and sometimes even lighting, that hasn't aged well. Mechanically and layout-wise, there's a lot to praise, and the assets themselves all look good. But there's a lot of places where, given the inexperience of the designers and the relative newness of 3D gaming, Doom just looks garish and tacky. The refinement that we see from decades of modding far surpasses the aesthetic quality of the original maps. What has really aged well is how nicely the maps often flow, both in terms of exploration and combat.

While I agree, back when they made Doom and Doom 2 maps, there was no bar to be set for map design and flow of combat etc.

So maybe people need to look passed that? As with today that wouldn't stack up compared to game design nowadays.

[baja blast rd.]

10 hours ago, Ragu said:

There are vanishingly few 32 map megawads that actually justify their length and most would benefit from cutting the map count in half

 

I think map count isn't a great measure of length. For example Zone 400 at 32 maps is a lot briefer than THT: Threnody at 20 maps. And I think justifying length is somewhat more subtle than that and most don't need big shaves.

 

But the comparable thing I agree with is that I find it depressing whenever someone releases a 20-map megawad and then another person is like "do you have any plans on expanding this to 32 maps?" 

 

More generally on length, I think this suggestion on "not falling into the trap of thinking more = better" is basically the best contest guideline ever -- and I kinda wish there were more mapping niches built around it.

 

I have nothing against long maps and count lots of those among my favorites ever. I just wish really ambitious, really clever, or really optimized-for-fun shorter maps were also very common -- the Saturnine Chapels and Breaches and Transcendences and Mancubian Candidates and Go Fuck Yourselves of the world, but also [insert what your favorite just-purely-fun small map are].

 

(That last category would have a lot more variance from person to person -- since it's easier to agree on what looks great or what is creative and clever than what is fun.) 

[Ragu]

On 10/25/2021 at 2:56 PM, rd. said:

 

I think map count isn't a great measure of length. For example Zone 400 at 32 maps is a lot briefer than THT: Threnody at 20 maps. And I think justifying length is somewhat more subtle than that and most don't need big shaves.

 

But the comparable thing I agree with is that I find it depressing whenever someone releases a 20-map megawad and then another person is like "do you have any plans on expanding this to 32 maps?" 

 

More generally on length, I think this suggestion on "not falling into the trap of thinking more = better" is basically the best contest guideline ever -- and I kinda wish there were more mapping niches built around it.

 

I have nothing against long maps and count lots of those among my favorites ever. I just wish really ambitious, really clever, or really optimized-for-fun shorter maps were also very common -- the Saturnine Chapels and Breaches and Transcendences and Mancubian Candidates and Go Fuck Yourselves of the world, but also [insert what your favorite just-purely-fun small map are].

 

(That last category would have a lot more variance from person to person -- since it's easier to agree on what looks great or what is creative and clever than what is fun.) 

 

I agree that it totally depends on the WAD. It may just be that the WADs I've been playing should have had more care taken with their progression (it's a lot of 90s stuff, so that's probably a given) as I often find they have strong starts, saggy middles, and a shot of adrenaline at the end, or strong starts and a rushed last ten.  Meanwhile, the ones that are shorter are often able to keep up the momentum a lot more effectively than the full 32 map beasts. I think more than a hard and fast "cut half your maps" directive I mean to say that judicious cuts can often help your mapset as much or more than yet another map.

[hurtchow]

I mentioned this in another thread, but:

 

The single barrel shotgun is a good medium/long range weapon, the super shotgun is practically worthless outside of close range. I don't think the single barrel is made obsolete by the super, as long as you realize this.

[Screamapillar]

Plasma Gun is amazing, it's my favorite weapon, and I was surprised when I heard that it is the most forgettable weapon in original DOOM.

Also, my favorite original OST is TNT Evilution's.

[xdude_gamer]

DOOM 1 is better than DOOM II. In my humble opinion, DOOM II sucks. Its levels are often sloggy and boring, the same thing over and over again. Sometimes there's new challenges. But the city levels, Chasm, and the rather easy Icon of Sin battle just kill DOOM II. DOOM 1 had fair fights, nice level design, and it felt different each time you progressed.

[Fairen]

I feel like good map design (and a lot of my pet peeves with maps) can be boiled down to these few questions:

1. Can I kill your cyberdemon from a position where I am literally never in danger of taking damage?
2. Am I expected to use the super shotgun for more than 50% of the map/enemies?
3. Are the encounters in your map that don't rely on teleport traps and monster closets incredibly easy?
4. Does your map feature enemies that can be eliminated with minimal threat but still drag the action to a halt to force the player to do so?
5. Am I expected to "snipe" enemies in a game that has no sniper weapons?*

Spoiler

*A clear sign that more Doom WADs need to include Knee Deep in ZDoom's A Rifle.

 

[Gibbon]

DOOM annoyed me sometimes as a kid (amateur astronomer back then) because the skyboxes were not correct.  Phobos and Deimos have no atmosphere and Mars has no topography like it was shown.

 

That and the chainsaw should have had an ammo count (petrol / gas).

Edited October 31, 2021 by Gibbon

[Shibainumaster]

People need to use more flats that corespond to the textures of the terrain while mapping. It annoys me when i play map with a staircase made of brown rock, i see that the floor beneath me is white pebbles instead of a matching, for example, RROCK09.

[BrassKnight]

The CEMENT set (CEMENT1-9) are the ugliest set of textures in Classic Doom.

[Dusty_Rhodes]

4 hours ago, Shibainumaster said:

People need to use more flats that corespond to the textures of the terrain while mapping. It annoys me when i play map with a staircase made of brown rock, i see that the floor beneath me is white pebbles instead of a matching, for example, RROCK09.

I hate that white pebble flat. Ugliest flat by a country mile.

Edited October 31, 2021 by Dusty_Rhodes

[Cruduxy Pegg]

23 hours ago, Screamapillar said:

Plasma Gun is amazing, it's my favorite weapon, and I was surprised when I heard that it is the most forgettable weapon in original DOOM.

Also, my favorite original OST is TNT Evilution's.

How can anyone forget that sound? Did the sound destroy their memory?

[xScavengerWolfx]

2 hours ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

I hate that white pebble flat. Ugliest flat by a country mile.

That's why i rarely use that texture in mapping.....unless i darken the sector so you don't go blind from the all white pebble texture.

[xScavengerWolfx]

I'm going to get a lot of hate for this but i'll just say it: Brutal Doom ruins doom.

 

Why you may ask? i'll tell you why.

 

1. The gory kills make it boring as sin to play, ramping the gore and violence is nice and all but come the fuck on you didn't need to rip the knob out and say "eh good enough". I get it Doom was a "bloody game" back in 1993 (well 1994 but you know what i mean).

 

2. The weapons are cool but i hate the fact that you need to reload some of them like the shotgun (super shotgun doesn't count in this argument) the rocket launcher and other weapons that has reloading animations.

 

3. The maps are cool but again the gore and violence throws me off and make it boring to play.

 

4. I ain't going to bitch about the metal remakes or remixes of the doom songs, there great expect E2M2 the demons from Adrian's pen, that one can fuck right off.

 

5. Y'all need to understand, this is my personal option. I don't wanna hear (or read) that "you don't like it because you haven't played it" Ok smart ass, if i haven't played it....then why am i bitching about it? Riddle me that batman.

 

Also Plutoina is a great Megawad....Even though i about broke my computer while raging from dying in map11 too much.

[Nine Inch Heels]

29 minutes ago, Pegg said:

How can anyone forget that sound? Did the sound destroy their memory?

I was about to ask pretty much the same thing... That characteristic PLPLPLPLPLPOING!!! has got to be one the most memorable acoustic annoyances in any video game of that era... Also, the plasma gun is great if you wanna play something on nightmare, because that rate of fire pain-locks a whole a lot of crap you'd otherwise get hit by once or twice...

[Gez]

3 hours ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

I hate that white pebble flat. Ugliest flat by a country mile.

Man it was my favorite flat back in the 90s. You're lucky I lost my maps and never released them! :V

[whybmonotacrab]

I really don't understand why people go out of their way to leave overtly negative reviews on wads. Someone spent hours of unpaid manhours to deliver something that rivals some games in terms of scope and length, and it didn't cost you a dime. Constructive criticism I get, people want to improve their craft. When I go on idgames and I see someone say something like "Your either: 1. An underaged tw*t who thinks he can map, but has proven otherwise... 2. From another country which would explain your bad english. 3. Both. I reckon it's number 3, but you still get an F. I'm surprised people gave you an F+. I'm glad this is the last of you. 0'd" I just feel like slapping the entitlement out of that prick.

 

 Also, whenever someone says something like "map too hard, mapper is rubbish" I feel like I'm going to have an aneurysm. Being so narcissistic that you think you failing at a map must be the mappers lack of skill rather than your own is truly mindboggling.

Edited October 31, 2021 by whybmonotacrab

[ZeMystic]

4 hours ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

I hate that white pebble flat. Ugliest flat by a country mile.

 

It's decent to pair with the SP_ROCK1 wall texture. I enjoy the flat, it's certainly not the ugliest.

 

That feat is reserved for those weird tentacle flats, I absolutely hate those.

[Denim Destroyer]

A pet peeve of mine is when the automap name isn't changed from stock. Nothing too serious just a personal preference of mine.

[Ragu]

On 10/28/2021 at 4:59 PM, hurtchow said:

I mentioned this in another thread, but:

 

The single barrel shotgun is a good medium/long range weapon, the super shotgun is practically worthless outside of close range. I don't think the single barrel is made obsolete by the super, as long as you realize this.

 

As something of an ammo miser, wanting to maximize the effectiveness of every round and trying to incur infighting even when it's not entirely practical, I'm often switching back and forth. While the super is also more efficient in terms of damage per shot, it's wasteful against small numbers of low-tiers. In levels where they load you with an okuplok's worth of shells, that's not a huge issue, but when the mapper is starving you for ammo, every shell counts. It can be worthwhile to switch if you've, for instance, hit a caco with two SSG blasts or a manc with three rockets and they're still standing. The chaingun works in these cases too, but sometimes you're doing better on shells than bullets.

[BrassKnight]

I sometimes hate using the Plasma Rifle, it's so damn loud.

[Shibainumaster]

22 hours ago, Dusty_Rhodes said:

I hate that white pebble flat. Ugliest flat by a country mile.

Yeah, it rarely can be used.

[Shibainumaster]

I think 1\3 of  plutonia's maps are overrated.

[pcorf]

On 5/12/2021 at 10:47 AM, kaosu said:

Icon of Sin maps are terrible

 

I am aware of this terrible concept so I made sure the Zone 400 Icon of Sin map was not so terrible but of course it is not the greatest map out there as it is difficult to make IOS maps. In this map you run around risking your life in order to find the keys, shooting at any unsuspecting monsters that pop up, hoping for infighting and then finally reaching the final ledge, you shoot rockets hoping to God that there are no floating terrors in your way.

Edited November 1, 2021 by pcorf

[Shibainumaster]

Half of doom's unused midis are better than the majority of used midis.